View Poll Results: Favorite Zelda game

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  • Twilight Princess

    186 25.91%
  • Wind Waker

    176 24.51%
  • Ocarina of Time

    293 40.81%
  • Others

    232 32.31%
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Thread: Zelda games discussion

  1. #7026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegiscalibur View Post
    But that's just more "the chosen one" stuff. Fate dictates that there is an endless cycle of these generic struggles between good and evil. It's not something any of the characters decided for themselves. It's just boring.
    Ya, Ganondorf's origin was already given in OoT, TP, and, especially, WW. Wind Waker gave reason and justifiable motivation for what he was doing. That will always be better than the fate/curse origin "story" given by Demise.

  2. #7027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seachran View Post
    Ya, Ganondorf's origin was already given in OoT, TP, and, especially, WW. Wind Waker gave reason and justifiable motivation for what he was doing. That will always be better than the fate/curse origin "story" given by Demise.
    But aren't there multiple incarnations of Ganon? The "Ganons" in OoT, TP, and WW are the same people, but the other ones are different.

    I'm pretty sure that's what it was trying to explain.
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  3. #7028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    But aren't there multiple incarnations of Ganon? The "Ganons" in OoT, TP, and WW are the same people, but the other ones are different.

    I'm pretty sure that's what it was trying to explain.
    No, it is all the same Ganon. Which makes the SS backstory all the more unnecessary; it didn't need to explain anything.

    The events of his childhood and early life lead to his attack on Hyrule, which leads to fighting Link in OoT. Every appearance after this is the same person either in the same life like in TP or having just been freed from a seal or resurrected.

  4. #7029
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    No, Zachmac is right. OoT, TP and WW share the same Ganon, he was born shortly before the events of OoT. All the other Ganons are different.


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  5. #7030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seachran View Post
    No, it is all the same Ganon. Which makes the SS backstory all the more unnecessary; it didn't need to explain anything.

    The events of his childhood and early life lead to his attack on Hyrule, which leads to fighting Link in OoT. Every appearance after this is the same person either in the same life like in TP or having just been freed from a seal or resurrected.
    I think you may have misunderstood Demise's curse a bit.
    It wasn't just setting up for Ganondorf. Demise's curse is that Link and Zelda's descendants will constantly be challenged by a great evil, with that evil essentially being a reincarnation of Demise's hatred.

    In that sense, Ganondorf, Vaati, Majora(probably), Malladus etc. are all part of the curse. Demise's story in SS does do at least one important thing, and that is that it explains why there is always a Link and (almost) always a Zelda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  6. #7031
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    I'm pretty sure the only Ganon that's different is the Four Swords Ganon. The LttP/LBW/LoZ Ganon's are all being continuously resurrected after being sealed or w/e, he only really dies in WW and TP.

  7. #7032
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    There are at least three different Ganons, I'd have to take a look at Hyrule Historia again to see if there are more, but at least the three main branches all have separate Ganons.

    And as Aurath8 mentioned, it's not necessarily Ganon that embodies the curse every time.


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  8. #7033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    There are at least three different Ganons, I'd have to take a look at Hyrule Historia again to see if there are more, but at least the three main branches all have separate Ganons.
    Sorry, you're wrong, especially in regards to the three branches. What Grey Wind said is the truth. In the child timeline he hasn't even been sealed, he's just waiting for his execution. In the other two branches, he simply breaks out of the seal that was placed on him by the sages at the end of OoT.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aurath8 View Post
    It wasn't just setting up for Ganondorf. Demise's curse is that Link and Zelda's descendants will constantly be challenged by a great evil, with that evil essentially being a reincarnation of Demise's hatred.

    In that sense, Ganondorf, Vaati, Majora(probably), Malladus etc. are all part of the curse. Demise's story in SS does do at least one important thing, and that is that it explains why there is always a Link and (almost) always a Zelda.
    The point is that Ganondorf is a single man who was given very personal reasons for his actions against Hyrule, and later Link. So Ganondorf himself didn't need a curse to ensure Link would be constantly challenged by him.

    Throwing the rest of the villains in like that is ok because they don't have the same type of backstory, although for Majora it really seems like a push.

  9. #7034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seachran View Post
    The point is that Ganondorf is a single man who was given very personal reasons for his actions against Hyrule, and later Link. So Ganondorf himself didn't need a curse to ensure Link would be constantly challenged by him.
    Eitherway, Ganondorf does die in the end of WW and TP, so they'll have to replace him eventually.

    ...Is ALBW/ALTTP Ganon the same guy as OoT Ganondorf?
    And what about the Ganon from Zeldas 1 and 2?
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  10. #7035
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    I just looked back at Hyrule Historia, they are all the same Ganon, just in separate universes (due to the branches introduced at the end of OoT). And even at the end of Wind Waker Ganondorf isn't killed, merely turned to stone. I don't remember what happens to him at the end of Twilight Princess though.


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  11. #7036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    I just looked back at Hyrule Historia, they are all the same Ganon, just in separate universes (due to the branches introduced at the end of OoT). And even at the end of Wind Waker Ganondorf isn't killed, merely turned to stone. I don't remember what happens to him at the end of Twilight Princess though.
    he's stabbed in the chest (again...) and then it cuts to Zant cracking his neck then his triforce fades away so i guess he died and doesnt reincarnate until four swords adventures

  12. #7037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurath8 View Post
    I think you may have misunderstood Demise's curse a bit.
    It wasn't just setting up for Ganondorf. Demise's curse is that Link and Zelda's descendants will constantly be challenged by a great evil, with that evil essentially being a reincarnation of Demise's hatred.

    In that sense, Ganondorf, Vaati, Majora(probably), Malladus etc. are all part of the curse. Demise's story in SS does do at least one important thing, and that is that it explains why there is always a Link and (almost) always a Zelda.
    It's a "why," sure, but is it a satisfying one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seachran View Post
    The point is that Ganondorf is a single man who was given very personal reasons for his actions against Hyrule, and later Link. So Ganondorf himself didn't need a curse to ensure Link would be constantly challenged by him.

    Throwing the rest of the villains in like that is ok because they don't have the same type of backstory, although for Majora it really seems like a push.
    Didn't at least Vaati feel like he was making his own decisions? Some random curse can only detract from that.

  13. #7038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegiscalibur View Post
    It's a "why," sure, but is it a satisfying one?
    Depends which part of the curse we're talking about, I suppose. Ganondorf and other incarnations being a continuation of Demise's hatred felt unnecessary, but I was satisfied by the way it explained the continued presence of the Hero and Hylia to stop Demise's hatred.

    That it also serves as a passable explanation for why WW Link had to jump through so many hoops to become a Hero helps, too.

  14. #7039

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegiscalibur View Post
    It's a "why," sure, but is it a satisfying one?

    Didn't at least Vaati feel like he was making his own decisions? Some random curse can only detract from that.
    I have always thought that Vaati was only interested in power alone and the hat he stole from Elonzo fueled his lust and also corrupted his mind. It was almost as if the hat fused to Vaati's head because no one seemed to have had the sense to just yank it off of him while he was distracted. When you think about it, in the Minish Cap, Link could have done that a couple of times and still end up saving the day.
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  15. #7040
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    All the curse does is bring the evil power, and then a hero and princess to stop it. It doesn't directly control any of the parties involved beyond that.


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  16. #7041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    All the curse does is bring the evil power, and then a hero and princess to stop it. It doesn't directly control any of the parties involved beyond that.
    How does that work? You can't ensure that someone does evil deeds without controlling their actions.

  17. #7042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegiscalibur View Post
    How does that work? You can't ensure that someone does evil deeds without controlling their actions.
    Curses are vague, and magic is weird.
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  18. #7043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegiscalibur View Post
    How does that work? You can't ensure that someone does evil deeds without controlling their actions.
    The curse ensures that there will always be a being who consciously wants to do those things of their own will. It doesn't make them do anything outright.

  19. #7044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegiscalibur View Post
    It's a "why," sure, but is it a satisfying one?
    Personally I find the bloodline descendant story of TP far more interesting. And every Princess of Hyrule is named Zelda anyway, who most likely will be just/good based on her upbringing. That also needs no further explaining through the like of Demise.

  20. #7045
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seachran View Post
    Personally I find the bloodline descendant story of TP far more interesting. And every Princess of Hyrule is named Zelda anyway, who most likely will be just/good based on her upbringing. That also needs no further explaining through the like of Demise.
    They're all named Zelda, and they may all be just, but that doesn't mean they all have what it takes to defeat Ganon or whatever other evil is present.


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  21. #7046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
    The curse ensures that there will always be a being who consciously wants to do those things of their own will. It doesn't make them do anything outright.
    If you can micromanage history to that extent, it's almost as boring as direct mind control. Everything is still predetermined by an external force, and there's nothing you can do about it. Boring.

  22. #7047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegiscalibur View Post
    If you can micromanage history to that extent, it's almost as boring as direct mind control. Everything is still predetermined by an external force, and there's nothing you can do about it. Boring.
    Welcome to video games.


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  23. #7048
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    ...And also welcome to the "chosen hero" trope which is in basically every Zelda game ever made, and is in fact, not exclusive to Skyward Sword at all.
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  24. #7049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrohs View Post
    Welcome to video games.
    Implying that every video game has a Zelda plot.

    ...That being said, Skyward Sword was even more Zelda-like than most of the recent entries in the series, and I mean that in the worst sense. Sorry, but that's the impression I got.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    ...And also welcome to the "chosen hero" trope which is in basically every Zelda game ever made, and is in fact, not exclusive to Skyward Sword at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aegiscalibur View Post
    It's not uncommon for Link to be the chosen one, but Skyward Sword really drills it into your head to the point of tedium.
    Last edited by Aegiscalibur; 6th April 2015 at 2:52 PM.

  25. #7050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegiscalibur View Post
    Implying that every video game has a Zelda plot.
    When you get right down to it, pretty much every video game has a very convenient explanation for its premise.


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