Trade Forum Blacklist

**Rayce** · 4th September 2012, 7:41 AM

Please, get some Mountain Dew and Poptarts before reading this. It would greatly please me to know you are satisfied.

Username of Scammer: NoToRiousBrawL
In-Game Name: Max <-----------\
Friend Code: 5114 9347 3943 <-----These change. He has MANY different Friend Codes and in-game names.
What happened (post the story of what happened here, including all evidence you may have): Let's get started, shall we?
If you're looking for the tl;dr version, see the bottom.

Before I explain my part, I need to make sure to state that only NoToRiousBrawL and Serebii Moderators may post after myself. We do not wish to start a flame war, and we only want Moderator intervention and BrawL's defense.

This scam happened a few months ago, but I decided to shrug it off, hoping he would change, like of Ken Kesey's concept of the Therapeutic Community in his One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Now, It's simply needed to get him and his hacks out of here, since I saw he has changed; for the worse. How?

MAF means Mother Fucker. Sorry for avoiding the Filter; I really hate swearing in general, especially because I haven't said one before, but it needed to be said. Clicky clicky the picture if you don't believe me. This was a PM he sent me on Neoseeker.

What? You-you still don't believe me? Check this VM he sent me. Page 60 if he deletes it, Moderators.

I'd also like to note a few facts as "keep-in-mind's" while you read through my case.
1. - NoToRiousBrawL has been brought up before in the blacklist. In fact, he's been brought up 3 times before.
2. - NoToRiousBrawL was convicted of a scammer. There's no getting around that. However, HE DID get around the Three-Week ban scammer's should receive.
3. - NoToRiousBrawL has two trade shops, which is against the Trade Shop rules.
4. - NoToRiousBrawL has flamed on us both, breaking Serebii Forum General Rules. (Noted by Ikhana).
5. - There are tons of unhappy traders who have traded with NoToRiousBrawL, other than the ones posting here. Keep them in mind.
6. - This problem is being ignored because of a common reason, as surveyed by myself; NoToRiousBrawL has escaped previous blacklisting cases because of personal bias. This is from users saying "he's a goooood trader!!! Plz dont BL him!! ;(". For that sake, I am PM'ing more Mods to come read through this case to prevent personal biases from getting in the way. Again, I remind you DO NOT POST unless you are blacklisting someone, or are NoToRiousBrawL or a Mod making comments.
...Alright, hopefully by now, after Ikhana, and myself, you can see he's not the person you think. Now, it gets interesting.

I was traded a Korean DW Banette by my now-partner Nero Jinous. He is very particular about his Pokemon because he doesn't like clones (let the record show Nero does not like clones), and he traded it to me uncloned in exchange for my Uncloned Pokemon. I got it and kept it uncloned for the sake of it's value. Until, Brawl offered me a Korean CInema Celebi for it. Back in those days, they were nearly impossible to find, so I said yes, why not?

BrawL was fine with me Cloning it; he just wouldn't trade it. Ours was a very fair trade, since the Banette was one-of-a-kind; him and I would be the only ones with it.

We traded it, and everything was going well; I was a kid with something very valuable, and he got something valuable as well! The back story to this scam was needed to show that a trade was completed, because BrawL could be the only one that could have uploaded it to Pokecheck; also, he will probably delete it upon seeing this post. [Attention is to the lower-right corner]

In fact, Pokecheck Admin Kaphotics can confirm that it is on Kevin24 (BrawL's shop partner) shared account, "Pokeman1". [Nero's ID is 22225]

Ok, enough about the Trade, we can see it happened. On to his Celebi.

Since I (like everyone else) naturally trusted him, I didn't worry about anything. He told me it came from a Korean Forum. A Korean Forum, can you get anymore reliable than that? Well, he couldn't provide any pictures of it, or who he got it from, or where this "Forum" was. Hmmmmm.......
So, with that in mind, here's the 'Celebi' he traded me.

Something bothered me later on, when he had corrected a Movie Golurk that had a hacked OT; the OT was a female OT, when Bulbapedia says its always male.

So, I asked DannyB01 (A well-renowned event collector and checker) here on Serebii if Cinema Celebi could have a Female OT. Infact, it cannot, and he told me I had aquired a hack.

I was so furious when I heard this, because I gave away something priceless for a bad hack he could have generated in 5 minutes. So, I held my peace, and kept the hacked Celebi a secret in my PC Box, hoping he would change. As it is quite clear, he didn't, and I saw he was conning everyone; not just me.

Later, I combined all my discoveries.

1. It has a Female OT. Yeah, already proven.
2. It has a Date that matches the date of Ikhana's hacked Manaphy. Coincidence? Keep reading.
3. It has a Jaboca Berry. Jaboca Berry is impossible to get on 5th Generation without hacking.
4. It has Pokerus. I thought he didn't trade Pokemon with Pokerus... or am I wrong?

Oh, what's that? You-you see it now? Maybe we see a common theme here? Great, maybe I'm not just a zombie behind a screen. ~~Maybe I am~~

There was 4 things wrong with it, and he did not mention ANY of them to me.

Another point I'd like to make is this happened just before Ikhana had been scammed by BrawL. Ikhana had proved that BrawL knew the Shin Sae Gae Manaphy was hacked, and still traded it to her. AKA, a scam. My Celebi also had the same date as the hacked Manaphy. Using a P-> Q, Q -> R method, I think it's a safe accusation to say BrawL knew my Cinema Celebi was Hacked, and that they were generated the same day with the same intent; to get something valueable for something worthless. AKA, scam me.

This last point kinda made me laugh. Hopefully, you can find something comical about it as well. Enraged and engulfed, I naturally took Ikhana's side in her blacklisting of BrawL. As said, it happened right after I was scammed, but I decided to keep my case still a secret. I posted in the Blacklist thread helping Ikhana before they were deleted. Seeing my post, he came to me and offered me a replacement Cinema Celebi; the "notorious" Modest Cinema Celebi. This one turned out legal, as mentioned by DannyB01 here. NoToRious called it "Kaphotic's Celebi", after the Pokemon Researcher on Smogon and the same Pokecheck Admin mentioned above. I had asked him about it, if he went to Korea and got one of them, and you know what his answer was?

He never got a Celebi. He never actually went to Korea. So, where did this Celebi come from...?

If you've skipped down to here because of the tl;dr version, read the above before flaming on me by PM/VM; otherwise read along. If you've endured the entire thing, props to you, and get ready for the closer. Using my case proving his personal bias against me, and Ikhana's current and previous case proving BrawL's dishonesty, it's safe to assume he's not trustworthy and a complete, incompetant, and immature trader. Using the previous case with Ikhana and BrawL, him saying he knew the SSG Manaphy was hacked, in accordance with the relevant-ness of my case with Rare-Korean Event hacking, and the fact that my Celebi had the same date a her Manaphy, It's safe to assume he knew he was scamming me, and It's definitely safe to say these originated from the same person. On account to Kaphotic's witness statement to disprove the Modest One's source, in accordance to my case showing the Korean Forum as the Hacked Celebi's source, it's safe to assume these were created by someone, and someone here on Serebii. Ultimately, knowing he is distrustful, knowing he scammed me, knowing both the Manaphy and Celebi hacks came from the same person, knowing that the Celebi was created here, and knowing that both the Modest Celebi and the Jolly Celebi that was an edit from the Modest Celebi on DannyB01's conformation before being spammed by someone here, I'd say its safe to say that user is NoToRiousBrawL, and that he is in fact, a hacker.

EDIT: THIS JUST CAME IN.
BrawL is now banned on Projet Pokemon. PM courtesy of Bond697.

...AND Pokecheck!

EDIT2: More incoming info.

Definitions used / Works Cited:
Legit / Legitimate - Obtained in game with no use of external device, using only the Pokemon game and registered Pokemon items where applicable.
Legal - CAN happen in game, but created by an external device.
Hack - Cannot happen, and did not happen within the game.
Smogon - Pokemon forum for Competitive battling. www.smogon.com/forums
Neoseeker - Gaming website / forum. www.neoseeker.com
Pokecheck - a pseudo-GTS, allowing for uploading and distributing Pokemon. www.pokecheck.org
DannyB01 - Event collector. Has many resoures for event-checking.
Kaphotics - Pokemon Researcher, Admin of Pokecheck, and hails from Smogon.
tl;dr - Too long, didn't read.
Hacked Celebi - I have this still, so if anyone needs a copy to look at, PM me and I can send you my evidence.
All displayed PM's / screenshots are unedited in every way.

Click here if you need more proof that he's two-faced.

**Kevin24** · 4th September 2012, 7:57 AM

Before i get dragged into this i want to point out that i absolutely had no knowledge of any kind of wrong doing being done or at the time or currently. since i am not on all the time i don't see everything happening. I don't support anything like this and never will.

**NoToRiousBrawL** · 4th September 2012, 8:49 AM

I'm seeing a lot of stuff that are well-documented therefore I decided to do the same and to let those FEW who question my reliability at Notorious' ; )

First off, Ikhana why are you reporting me for? Is it for those trade-back? I thought I gave you more than enough so why do you want to go through the past? Plus, You should speak for your self not MOST of people are having problem with me it's just you and Rayce. Although I'm seeing both of you trying to get me banned but you forgot one thing and only which is you cannot apply your conspiracy theory to all SPPf users!

Here's a proof of us doing a trade back making the issue shrink a bit

Here's my Sweety-heart Ikhana choosing her Pokemon

So what's that for? Is it because of me being too active or just you and Rayce seeing me the bad one? If so then it's my problem D:

You now are telling us that I'm bothering you all the time? then what do you call that?! A trolling or just chatting? If you don't want to gawk with people then you should stop doing what you are doing.

Ikhana telling us she's a Korean game Yaaay D:

Ikhana also is confirming once more she owns a Korean game and spamming my shop.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Ikhana telling us the Celebi she got in Norway is the same as the British one -_- Note this post is at my shop making it nothing but annoying

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

So now who's trolling who? and Who made it up to who? To speak on behalf the entire forum if you have gotten anything with me you should solve your problem with me directly there is no point of using this thread people need it for something pretty much important than what you got in hand.

Ikhana also schooling us with expression , people who live in the glass … etc

I do not think I bugged you in 1st place I think you do not share the connotation of jealously like the rest of us *7 Billion people*

Grumpy Snorlax also aka Shuckle telling us to what should we do and yet you insist to ban ._.

**NoToRiousBrawL** · 4th September 2012, 9:19 AM

2nd Pt
Now with the 2nd one. Basically you are doing your fullest too to ban as well for what? I still do not get what you are holding against me except your Pokecheck threats along with Mat to ban me from Serebii Why? Is it because Our shop swiped yours? or what's your problem exactly?

Rayce telling Pokecheck people he's planning to ban me on Serebii ._. And proof about it LoL

Also he got supporters to pave the way to flush me away LoL who will talk to Serebii himself to ban me so I think the issue become more like of a personal one than a GAME.

Rayce before getting screenshot you should have read SmeargleRocks's VM in my wall of course of you can ; )

The Guy basically wanted me to check the legitimacy of his Pokemon ^

Yes I use PokeGen to check the country of origin's and sort out my stuff how can I do that if I got 13,000 events? Please next time make sure the pics you are using won't be used against you..

Another example to show and it's worthy to mention that Lord Zoroak said he isn't sure wether he got the Pokemon from BRAWL *the one you will do whatever it takes to ban* or another user. Rayce I've always admired how smart you really are but this time you made me disappointed

Racye is now telling I have traded hacks which is true and Bobandbill as well as trade-shops mods know better I did saw. However, I offered replacements to every single one & here is the proof

So now, If I may ask what is all that noise for Ray? or you're just trying to get people's attention?

If you are telling us I traded hacks I would say I sure did bro! Just like what we can see in this picture! You yourself admitted you traded hacks which means everyone can get involved in such situatuion

Last week I posted at Lord Zoroark's shop looking for some more Pokemon ,so can anyone tell me what that Rayce is doing in this thread? I do not quite understand

You are now saying The Banette is being traded and yes because I wasn't told to keep it NFT and if you are curious to know who's the person who checked it out in Pokecheck guess who? It's Requiem

You are now planning to ban me without me getting involved in a scam I didn't do on purpose like yourself

I will leave it to the mods and users at this point just wanted to clear the air a bit and I hope I did.

EDIT

Very nice now here is what he and his fellow are going to do apparently they just do not know how to get rid off me

**Bond697** · 4th September 2012, 9:31 AM

of course i would mention it to serebii. someone like you needs to be removed as soon as possible. there's no personal issue whatsoever. i said i would mention it to serebii because i know he really doesn't like hacks and hackers either and someone like you who goes to great lengths to act like an upstanding member, but who is completely willing to trade hacked pokemon and generally be a jackass whenever you feel like it very badly needs to be stopped and prevented from spreading your hacks. i can only imagine how many people have unwittingly ended up with some poor hack of yours.

it's funny that you act like those pictures are some kind of evidence and we didn't want anyone to see it. i don't care if anyone sees it and neither does he, otherwise it wouldn't have been said publically. also, i see you left out your extremely rude, unwarranted behavior that got you banned. good job leaving that relevant piece of info out. not only did i have to ban you on pokecheck, but afterward you registered a new account on project pokemon to harass me, which i then had to ban as well. the one thing you said to me before being banned on pp is in rayce's post. i've never met a more two-faced person before.

e:

and for the spp staff reading: yeah i'm an admin over on pokecheck and a super mod over on project pokemon. i have no dog in this fight and am not really involved past him coming on pokecheck and telling me i can stick a pikachu tail up my ***. i then muted him for a week. at this point, he mute-evaded and called me a bunch more stuff so i banned him. then he proceeded to make an account on projectpokemon to harass me with so i was forced to ban him on there. the image of the pm on pp is provided above. that's not really relevant to serebii though, so much as it goes to his character and how incredibly two-faced he acts. i think kaphotics, one of the other pokecheck admins, was more directly involved with him. i'll ask him to stop over and contribute whatever he needs to. i was also recently informed about all of his hacking and trading of the hacked pokemon, etc and i spent a bit of time reading back on this very blacklist, where i found this:

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthr...4#post14052014

where he accidentally sent a pm exchange to a staff member in which he openly plots to harass another serebii member.

between the open, easy to see, and pretty creepy messaging about harassing another member and this really obvious hack trading, i'm mildly surprised this hasn't been taken care of already.

**NoToRiousBrawL** · 4th September 2012, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bond697

of course i would mention it to serebii. someone like you needs to be removed as soon as possible. there's no personal issue whatsoever. i said i would mention it to serebii because i know he really doesn't like hacks and hackers either and someone like you who goes to great lengths to act like an upstanding member, but who is completely willing to trade hacked pokemon and generally be a jackass whenever you feel like it very badly needs to be stopped and prevented from spreading your hacks. i can only imagine how many people have unwittingly ended up with some poor hack of yours.

it's funny that you act like those pictures are some kind of evidence and we didn't want anyone to see it. i don't care if anyone sees it and neither does he, otherwise it wouldn't have been said publically. also, i see you left out your extremely rude, unwarranted behavior that got you banned. good job leaving that relevant piece of info out. not only did i have to ban you on pokecheck, but afterward you registered a new account on project pokemon to harass me, which i then had to ban as well. the one thing you said to me before being banned on pp is in rayce's post. i've never met a more two-faced person before.

Well, Of course you care about those pictures because it's shows your true face.

What hacks I'm speeding? and what hacks I made? If you are using your connections to do something no one else can then it's your problem. I didn't start what was going on Pokecheck you started last week I got a bunch of PMs people telling me about you. Continuing your rude approach and thinking you are the one of a kind will bring you nowhere. To show people you started that on your own last week everyone please take a look at this

Bond If you think you want to flame at people and they bow to you just because you're Mat or whoever you shouldn't have said what you said. I what I did was a natural response I mean come on you're not god. I do not think Serebii shares the same definition of attitude with u though. Just don't bring something personal here.

EDIT
It's really funny how your attempts work to ban me. First you started flaming at me because I returned you attitude. And funnily enough you are telling BobandBill what to do pushing it to your fullest just seeing me banned. On that scale I suggest using your connections instead of wasting your times mini-modding ...

**Lord Zoroark** · 4th September 2012, 10:18 AM

I have something to report that seemed minor at the time, but seeing some of the stories going around about Brawl, I think that it would be irresponsible of me to NOT mention this.

Username of Scammer: NotoriousBrawl
In-Game Name: Brawl
Friend Codes: Multiple FCs
What happened:

Some of you may remember the time when Mart accused me of giving him a Touched Shaymin. I knew that I hadn't used it in battle at all, so I commented that Brawl, who I thought had traded it to me, must have used some Wings or Vitamins on it or something.

However, Brawl immediately declared that he hadn't traded it to me. I was surprised by this statement, but apologized, thinking that I'd made a mistake.

I decided to go through my VMs to reassure myself that Brawl hadn't traded me the Shaymin.

To my shock and disgust, I found a VM conversation between me and Brawl discussing trading the Shaymin (along with a Mewtwo and Manaphy).

He LIED. He lied to me and to the rest of the community. Why? He wished to avoid getting his name put into the business and decided prevent himself from being named in a scandal by declaring that he'd never traded me the Shaymin (and so saving himself while tossing me to the sharks).

My point: Brawl is capable of and is willing to deceive people to save himself from accusations of scamming.

I believe that Rayce and Ikhana are telling the truth and that Brawl is lying to save his own skin and business.

**NoToRiousBrawL** · 4th September 2012, 10:46 AM

^ In response to your repost which I'm 100% Rayce & Ikhana told u to do so here are 2 pics proofing the Shyamin has no EVs on it and I have already denied that.

**Bond697** · 4th September 2012, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by NoToRiousBrawL

Well, Of course you care about those pictures because it's shows your true face.

What hacks I'm speeding? and what hacks I made? If you are using your connections to do something no one else can then it's your problem. I didn't start what was going on Pokecheck you started last week I got a bunch of PMs people telling me about you. Continuing your rude approach and thinking you are the one of a kind will bring you nowhere. To show people you started that on your own last week everyone please take a look at this

Bond If you think you want to flame at people and they bow to you just because you're Mat or whoever you shouldn't have said what you said. I what I did was a natural response I mean come on you're not god. I do not think Serebii shares the same definition of attitude with u though. Just don't bring something personal here.

EDIT
It's really funny how your attempts work to ban me. First you started flaming at me because I returned you attitude. And funnily enough you are telling BobandBill what to do pushing it to your fullest just seeing me banned. On that scale I suggest using your connections instead of wasting your times mini-modding ...

If you are using your connections to do something no one else can then it's your problem.

this makes no sense at all.

I didn't start what was going on Pokecheck you started last week I got a bunch of PMs people telling me about you. Continuing your rude approach and thinking you are the one of a kind will bring you nowhere. To show people you started that on your own last week everyone please take a look at this

this makes no sense at all.

Bond If you think you want to flame at people and they bow to you just because you're Mat or whoever you shouldn't have said what you said.

i'm starting to question whether or not you actually understand english at this point.

I what I did was a natural response I mean come on you're not god.

you coming onto pokecheck and then project pokemon just to curse at me is not a natural response. it's you being an *******. just accept it.

I do not think Serebii shares the same definition of attitude with u though.

serebii and i share the exact same dislike of hackers, which is exactly what you are.

Just don't bring something personal here.

i have no involvement in this whatsoever. i'm a third party posting what happened to back up rayce.

It's really funny how your attempts work to ban me. First you started flaming at me because I returned you attitude. And funnily enough you are telling BobandBill what to do pushing it to your fullest just seeing me banned. On that scale I suggest using your connections instead of wasting your times mini-modding ...

no, i'm speaking to him as a staff member of one site to a staff member of another site. i have basically no involvement here past the small amount i already mentioned. you would've been banned for the harassment alone by now if it was project pokemon and i'm surprised that on a site like serebii you're even still allowed to post. your incredibly arrogant attitude is just amazing.

**NoToRiousBrawL** · 4th September 2012, 11:13 AM

Back to the point again -.-*

A- Like I said continuing your rude won't help you at all. Like I said I'm not a hacker and if you can proof I'm then go on.*
B- You put your finger on the bottom didn't you? Like I said you have been nothing but rude I didn't even know u and you called me stupid and idiot? What for?*
C- I actually speak three languages so keep that to yourself.*
D- No Serebii at least isn't cruel. Want to ban me? Then go ahead and talk to him I just showed peeps what kind of person you are lame.*

Originally Posted by Bond697

this makes no sense at all.

this makes no sense at all.

i'm starting to question whether or not you actually understand english at this point.

you coming onto pokecheck and then project pokemon just to curse at me is not a natural response. it's you being an *******. just accept it.

serebii and i share the exact same dislike of hackers, which is exactly what you are.

i have no involvement in this whatsoever. i'm a third party posting what happened to back up rayce.

no, i'm speaking to him as a staff member of one site to a staff member of another site. i have basically no involvement here past the small amount i already mentioned. you would've been banned for the harassment alone by now if it was project pokemon and i'm surprised that on a site like serebii you're even still allowed to post. your incredibly arrogant attitude is just amazing.

**Bond697** · 4th September 2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by NoToRiousBrawL

Back to the point again -.-*

A- Like I said continuing your rude won't help you at all. Like I said I'm not a hacker and if you can proof I'm then go on.*
B- You put your finger on the bottom didn't you? Like I said you have been nothing but rude I didn't even know u and you called me stupid and idiot? What for?*
C- I actually speak three languages so keep that to yourself.*
D- No Serebii at least isn't cruel. Want to ban me? Then go ahead and talk to him I just showed peeps what kind of person you are lame.*

a. i don't need to. the others have already done that.

b. i never said any such thing. ever. pictorial proof, any time.

c. you sure wouldn't know it from this.

d. i like how you've come to just plain insults now that you've got nothing else. that's pretty good.

we're also way off topic at this point, so i'm done.

**Lord Zoroark** · 4th September 2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by NoToRiousBrawL

^ In response to your repost which I'm 100% Rayce & Ikhana told u to do so here are 2 pics proofing the Shyamin has no EVs on it and I have already denied that.

Denied... what, exactly? That you traded me the Shaymin?

http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/...3Dd9a23012.png
http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/...3D1a6bf6af.png
http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/...3De8ec0e3e.png

Read those three pages, then tell me that again.

...Or did you mean that the Shaymin was UT when you traded it to me?

http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/...3D1cbb3985.jpg

Those were the stats on the Shaymin the way I got it from you.

Looking at your pictures and mine, I can guess your next accusation: you will claim that I altered the Shaymin myself. I can't really disprove that. However, I promise you and everyone else here that this was the way that I received that Shaymin from you.

So it's my word versus yours. Under normal circumstances, I would've bet solid cash on your word. However, these are not normal circumstances...

... as the fact still stands that you lied about trading it to me. The pictures that I've posted have proven that you traded me that Shaymin (along with Mewtwo and Manaphy, but that's irrelevant). Your statement during my conflict with Mart, however, denies that you ever traded it to me. No matter what you can say about the Shaymin's status as UT, you denied ever trading me a Shaymin. You LIED about not trading me that Shaymin. You lied to save yourself from being dragged into my already doomed conflict. You lied to not just me, but everybody else here to save your own skin.

My case boils down this: you traded me that Shaymin and lied about it when it started looking risky to state your involvement, and the Shaymin was NOT UT when you traded it to me - even though you claim that it was. The former point is proven fact, and the latter point is a matter of my word versus yours.

Brawl, having looked at my case and the cases of Ikhana and Rayce, I accuse you of being a liar, a scammer, and of not being fit to do business on these forums until you can become a honest trader. I cannot make the decision to ban you, as I do not have the authority to do so. I leave that decision to those who do have that authority - the moderators - and will wait for them to either inquire further into the subject or pass judgment before speaking on this case again.

I believe that the mods are now best suited to judging this problem, so I (politely) request that anyone who is not me, Brawl, or a moderator to refrain from commenting on this case. Forgive me if you believe me to be mini-moderating.

**bobandbill** · 4th September 2012, 1:47 PM

Hi, essay-length posts! =D

Couple of things first before I slowly go through this all:

- stuff about the previous blacklist claims do not go here. And by that, I mean the details. That was already looked at by mods at the time. Sure, the fact he's already had stuff here is important, but the finer details are not unless I actually want to remind myself (and I could do that by looking at the previous pages). Same for claims of being rude/breaking different rules; a trip to one's infraction page will tell us what we want to know about that, and those things should be reported at the time via the report button too (in case any of those events hadn't been, that is).
- off-forum stuff that happened that are not related to the trades here do not have much to do with this as a result. After all we don't ban people for what they do on other sites/forums, partly because that'd be very very hard for us to monitor. And partly because it's not our job to do so. If it has something to do with breaking a rule here? Sure, mention it. Otherwise it's just muddling the issue
- stuff we are concerned with is any trades of hacked Pokemon after the previous cases already dealt with (see late Jan or so).
- As people keep mentioning it, I'll remind you that he didn't get off scoot free because of people asking/etc for him not to be banned (tbh I don't recall much of that anyways outside of the thread). He got various infractions and maybe a ban too (would need to check), and did eventually do tradebacks which is why the blacklist did not happen. At any rate, please don't comment on that as it has naught to do with anything happening now.

And no, he didn't escape blacklisting because of personal bias. It had been a group mod decision, and I had no personal care for anyone who had asked to not ban or whatnot, which was few in number (and the posts of that kind in this thread? They got deleted for being off-topic, so there you go). Please don't make such claims as it's actually kinda insulting.

SO!

Please, get some Mountain Dew and Poptarts before reading this. It would greatly please me to know you are satisfied.

I don't have any. >:[

On a serious note, what follows is me quoting a lot of stuff and giving my thoughts. This is so you can correct me if I misread or something, and for me to get a handle on what is actually being said:

This scam happened a few months ago, but I decided to shrug it off, hoping he would change, like of Ken Kesey's concept of the Therapeutic Community in his One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Now, It's simply needed to get him and his hacks out of here, since I saw he has changed; for the worse

For future reference (directed at everyone); report stuff that happens at the time, not later. Please don't hope for change or whatnot; if they want to change they can very well do that right then and there. Otherwise you get messes like this. And unhappy mods reading it all like me. =p

What? You-you still don't believe me? Check this VM he sent me. Page 60 if he deletes it, Moderators.

So, we have a claim that he had a hacked Flygon in his list. He said it himself that he had one in that VM. Okay.

I was traded a Korean DW Banette by my now-partner Nero Jinous. He is (...) Until, Brawl offered me a Korean CInema Celebi for it. Back in those days, they were nearly impossible to find, so I said yes, why not?

BrawL was fine with me Cloning it; he just wouldn't trade it. Ours was a very fair trade, since the Banette was one-of-a-kind; him and I would be the only ones with it.

We traded it...(...) [Attention is to the lower-right corner]

Okay, so he traded you a Korean DW Banette. Deal was to clone and trade back.
Pokecheck suggests either multiple checks (what does this mean, does it keep a count ie if you check the same Pokemon 50 times it's been checked 50 times?), cloning or some other stuff.

In fact, Pokecheck Admin Kaphotics can confirm that it is on Kevin24 (BrawL's shop partner) shared account, "Pokeman1". [Nero's ID is 22225]

So pokecheck expert says it was his.

Since I (like everyone else) naturally trusted him, I didn't worry about anything. He told me it came from a Korean Forum.

You got a Korean Celebi from him.

Something bothered me later on, when he had corrected a Movie Golurk that had a hacked OT; the OT was a female OT, when Bulbapedia says its always male.

And it turned out to be hacked.

1. It has a Female OT. Yeah, already proven.
3. It has a Jaboca Berry. Jaboca Berry is impossible to get on 5th Generation without hacking.

Checked, seems to be the case.

Couple things I would like clarified; when did this trade happen, and also any record/link of the trade arrangement itself?

I have thus ignored quoting the next so-and-so posts as they had nothing new, had to do with off-site stuff and/or nothing to do with the above claim.

Username of Scammer: NotoriousBrawl
In-Game Name: Brawl
Friend Codes: Multiple FCs
What happened:

Some of you may remember the time when Mart accused me of giving him a Touched Shaymin. I knew that I hadn't used it in battle at all, so I commented that Brawl, who I thought had traded it to me, must have used some Wings or Vitamins on it or something.

I checked and there was a trade agreement about this trade.

^ In response to your repost which I'm 100% Rayce & Ikhana told u to do so here are 2 pics proofing the Shyamin has no EVs on it and I have already denied that.

Can't see a level to it, etc so I can't actually go fire up an iv calculator to check this.

http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/...3D1cbb3985.jpg

Those were the stats on the Shaymin the way I got it from you.

These look different from that other picture and as one can see the level I can try to check I guess later if needed. At any rate two pictures saying different things...

Looking at your pictures and mine, I can guess your next accusation: you will claim that I altered the Shaymin myself. I can't really disprove that. However, I promise you and everyone else here that this was the way that I received that Shaymin from you.

That is a fair point and something that came to mind before reading this. So...uh?

... as the fact still stands that you lied about trading it to me. The pictures that I've posted have proven that you traded me that Shaymin (along with Mewtwo and Manaphy, but that's irrelevant). Your statement during my conflict with Mart, however, denies that you ever traded it to me. No matter what you can say about the Shaymin's status as UT, you denied ever trading me a Shaymin. You LIED about not trading me that Shaymin.

Also a fair point; he did say he did not trade you one as it had pokerus which is iffy. That does come back to the previous point above though.

So all in all, so far I gather the following:
- NotoriousBrawl traded a hacked Celebi to Rayce (hacked due to berry, and female OT). I am not 100% when this happened. Nothing yet refuted about this from NBrawl.
- He traded a Shaymin to Lord Zoroark. He says it was UT, LZoroark said it isn't. Both have differing images of what is supposedly the same Pokemon's stats.

So more info on the above would be nice. Please don't talk about stuff said on other forums that don't directly have to do with this.

**Rayce** · 4th September 2012, 9:45 PM

Just a little note: I do not want to talk to him. He clearly has no respect for me, and I do not wish to be brought down to his level. If that's fine, I'd like that.

Originally Posted by bobandbill

- stuff we are concerned with is any trades of hacked Pokemon after the previous cases already dealt with (see late Jan or so).

Correct, I was traded a hacked Pokemon.

And no, he didn't escape blacklisting because of personal bias. It had been a group mod decision, and I had no personal care for anyone who had asked to not ban or whatnot, which was few in number (and the posts of that kind in this thread? They got deleted for being off-topic, so there you go). Please don't make such claims as it's actually kinda insulting.

Sorry about that, I meant no disrespect. It's just a little odd having a (3 page?) long scam case and not hearing anything beyond a tradeback was done.

On a serious note, what follows is me quoting a lot of stuff and giving my thoughts. This is so you can correct me if I misread or something, and for me to get a handle on what is actually being said:
For future reference (directed at everyone); report stuff that happens at the time, not later. Please don't hope for change or whatnot; if they want to change they can very well do that right then and there. Otherwise you get messes like this. And unhappy mods reading it all like me. =p

I can be a little naive at times. And I want my poptarts >.>

Okay, so he traded you a Korean DW Banette. Deal was to clone and trade back.

Not quite. I cloned it myself, so no tradeback was needed. It was simply my Banette for his Celebi, a single trade.

Pokecheck suggests either multiple checks (what does this mean, does it keep a count ie if you check the same Pokemon 50 times it's been checked 50 times?), cloning or some other stuff.

The amount of times it is checked is the amount of times it was uploaded in the Database. It was uploaded twice; once for him, and once for myself.

So pokecheck expert says it was his.
You got a Korean Celebi from him.
And it turned out to be hacked.
Checked, seems to be the case.

Correct, correct, right, and right.

Couple things I would like clarified; when did this trade happen, and also any record/link of the trade arrangement itself?

I'm not sure if I had specified it anywhere, but this happened near the time Ikhana was scammed in her previous case. Around the New Year's, this year, between December '11 and January '12. Such, I unfortunately cannot provide the PM's of the agreement. However, the deal with cloning the Banette was my proof the trade occurred.

So all in all, so far I gather the following:
- NotoriousBrawl traded a hacked Celebi to Rayce (hacked due to berry, and female OT). ~~I am not 100% when this happened.~~ Hopefully I clarified this. Nothing yet refuted about this from NBrawl.

Correct.
If I had a flashcart, I could check it's legality and show you the "internals". I'm sure would be

anyway.

So more info on the above would be nice. Please don't talk about stuff said on other forums that don't directly have to do with this.

If this was directed at me, I can provide more details on request, if more are needed.

**NoToRiousBrawL** · 4th September 2012, 10:05 PM

Bob like I said I do not trade stuff infected with PKRS and if it happens I notify my trading partner already. Here is another picture of the Shyamin I gave Lord

Also in response to Ray's accusation of me hacking the Celebi and calling it Kaphtoic's take a look at this picture

Kay information all of you should pay attention to!

The trade took place last year and if I'm not mistaken it was in the middle of Nov. The trade mainly was trading my Celebi for his XD shiny dogs as well as the XD Shiny Flygon which also turned out to be hacked here is a proof

Now with that being said It is now pretty much obvious he gave me 4 hacked Pokemon which I suppose he didn't know of. So now it turned out Rayce actually spreads hacks and it's good seeing him willing to offer replacements or doing trade-back. On my side I do not want anything from him and now , for all of a sudden he believes that I made hacks and spreads them around.

Let me ask you a question, If I trade those things on purpose then why should I make it up to all others? Everybody saw what my posts which stated that I'm willing to offer replacements and he still thinks I'm the bad guy -_-

Seriously, I'm not following you at all.

**Lord Zoroark** · 5th September 2012, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by NoToRiousBrawL

Bob like I said I do not trade stuff infected with PKRS and if it happens I notify my trading partner already. Here is another picture of the Shyamin I gave Lord

As Bobandbill has stated that he would like Brawl to respond to my statement, and as Brawl has responded, I'd like to speak again.

First off, I never denied giving the Shaymin Pokerus. I freely admit to spreading Pokerus to it while carrying it on my team.

However, the Shaymin had EVs on it when it was traded to me. I had several clones of that Shaymin. I have precisely one of the Shaymin that has no EVs: Rayce EV wiped it for me. I still have one of those EV'd Shaymin in my box, and I traded them to several other people, (with the exception of SoundXFury, all of these were before learning of its EVs). Anyone who's received a PC Shaymin from me can vouch that it has EVs upon inspection.

Here are some better pictures of the Shaymin with EVs:

http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/...t=c6c2646d.jpg
http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/...3D4bd07826.jpg

This is the one that I got from Brawl. Seeing that he lied about trading it to me...

Originally Posted by NoToRiousBrawL

I'm 100% sure u didn't get it from me dude .-. I do not trade stuff infected with Pokerus ,period = \ ...

... I believe that my word is more trustworthy than his in this case.

People may accuse me of milking the fact that he lied for all it's worth and such. It's true. I make a point in bringing it up over and over again due to the fact that it shows my point: he is not trustworthy. If he's willing to lie about his not having traded me the Shaymin merely to protect himself from accusation of fraud, then I believe that he is willing to commit other acts of deception to both further his business and avoid convictions of scamming when he's caught.

Also, I understand that this isn't really my business, but I firmly believe that Brawl is a liar and a scammer, so I would like to help Rayce by pointing out a few things.

Originally Posted by NoToRiousBrawL

Kay information all of you should pay attention to!

The trade took place last year and if I'm not mistaken it was in the middle of Nov. The trade mainly was trading my Celebi for his XD shiny dogs as well as the XD Shiny Flygon which also turned out to be hacked here is a proof

Now with that being said It is now pretty much obvious he gave me 4 hacked Pokemon which I suppose he didn't know of. So now it turned out Rayce actually spreads hacks and it's good seeing him willing to offer replacements or doing trade-back. On my side I do not want anything from him and now , for all of a sudden he believes that I made hacks and spreads them around.

Let me ask you a question, If I trade those things on purpose then why should I make it up to all others? Everybody saw what my posts which stated that I'm willing to offer replacements and he still thinks I'm the bad guy -_-

Seriously, I'm not following you at all.

I believe that what you've just committed is an ad hominem fallacy. That is, you are attacking Rayce's reputation to discredit him.

By the way, can you prove that Rayce traded you those hacks?

Originally Posted by Rayce

Spoiler:- Trading Log:

His trading log says otherwise.
You've also committed a straw man fallacy. You've thrown up this new case in order to distract us from the old one regarding the hacks that you traded Rayce. The only response that you've made to the original one is this...

Originally Posted by NoToRiousBrawL

Also in response to Ray's accusation of me hacking the Celebi and calling it Kaphtoic's take a look at this picture

...which brings me to my last point - what picture? I don't see any pictures there, mi amici.

**DannyB01** · 5th September 2012, 12:38 AM

@Rayce considering you told me to look out at this thread yesterday I'm going to assume you don't mind me posting. There's a lot here so I'll post as I go along, though I might not have much to say apart from my general opinion.

The Banette which Kevin uploaded to pokecheck is simply because they're shop partners. I guess when they merged all their stuff they assumed all NFT rules became rules for the shop, rather than themselves individually (due to something I've seen about a wish drowzee of mine being given away I'm sure that's what happened, but I don't blame them). So I don't really think that's anything to be concerned about really.

The fact Brawl's been discussed in this thread before shouldn't really count towards him getting blacklisted, only his punishment if it's deemed what he did was blacklist-worthy. Anyway, just bear that in mind.

You went on to mention that Brawl had said he got a celebi from a korean forum. Well, judging from that message where he was particular about calling a blog a site, I can tell what he said is BS - korean people generally trade on blogs. lol It's the place to look for rare korean stuff though, but not many people are lucky - best way is to get a japanese contact as they're often hooked up with the korean stuff straight away. Anyway that's a bit of an aside, that celebi was hacked there's no two ways about it, and he appears to have lied about where it came from.

I lol'd hard at the "I do not use Pokecheck I use Pokegen" statement. It is basically saying "I'm the guy that hacks, not the guy that checks" - like a thief compared to a policeman! But he meant that he uses it to check information, no different to me using Pokesav to check information or Secure PKM Reader to read hex.

------

@NoToRiousBrawL - you posted that picture of Ikhana talking about a korean game twice, not exactly spamming if it's the same post! Her post about the norwegian celebi you might have found interesting, don't think it's fair to just call it annoying. Anyway people might be disappointed if they trade for it and it's pretty much the same as an english one they already have. There was no evidence of trolling in your posts, and you didn't even try to defend the idea that you'd been creating and spreading hacks - which is worrying. But I agree this matter does seem personal, though that shouldn't be allowed to detract from the point they're making - and no offering tradebacks does NOT make up for it, because you were only offering them as you got caught. Looking at all this I'm amazed you didn't get an infraction when this happened, but I remember the whole situation being a bit of a row and a mess.

"if you are curious to know who's the person who checked it out in Pokecheck guess who? It's Requiem"

Is that actually true? I don't believe that, Kaphotics could easily tell who it was being that he's the pokecheck admin and he's a completely neutral third party, he wouldn't lie and say it's Kevin's account. As you say it's Requiem I can always ask Aglid I guess, I should know what stuff I have but I really don't when it comes to DW. :3

Just because a pokemon has no EVs does NOT mean it's UT. I know you know this, and I think your image is deliberately misleading. So what Lord Zoroark is saying really does show you were lying at the time, I think we can all see that - you could say there's no 'proof' but you'd have to be deliberately pedantic or looking for an excuse.

In your last post you are treating the idea of you hacking and spreading a pokemon as being just as bad as someone accidentally trading a hacked pokemon - which is nonsense. I don't think that's aided your argument. Considering you still haven't denied creating and spreading the hacked celebi it's pretty obvious you did it. Anyway I'm not trying to take one side or the other, this seems like an issue between you three - and I think that's the problem, it's all personal.

---

So I'll say remind you all this stuff all happened AGES ago. Seems almost unfair to ban Brawl now with him having acted like a decent trader for the last however many months it's been. However, that doesn't mean there's any excuse for the definite lying, swearing, hacking and scamming. What this looks like really is request for what was done ages ago to be re-addressed and BrawL to get the ban he was very lucky to avoid. I've not heard accounts since this mess in october/november of BrawL scamming people or doing anything fishy, he must be doing something right if he's become shop partners with one of the people who disliked him the most back then (h0wlw0lf). I'm really not trying to take sides here but I'd say, personally, that if there's no evidence of BrawL trading badly for the last 10 months then he shouldn't get a ban. The warning flag on his name has been raised once again, that's punishment enough in itself considering how the event community is.

Hope you don't mind my comments, it's just cos you mentioned this to me yesterday Rayce. For the record sppf mods I'm probably in a good position to give an unbiased view, and have been fairly involved with the legality issues mentioned (my name pops up a few times I see), on top of that I mod neoseeker as well as being a global moderator on pokemonsecure.

**NoToRiousBrawL** · 5th September 2012, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark

As Bobandbill has stated that he would like Brawl to respond to my statement, and as Brawl has responded, I'd like to speak again.

First off, I never denied giving the Shaymin Pokerus. I freely admit to spreading Pokerus to it while carrying it on my team.

However, the Shaymin had EVs on it when it was traded to me. I had several clones of that Shaymin. I have precisely one of the Shaymin that has no EVs: Rayce EV wiped it for me. I still have one of those EV'd Shaymin in my box, and I traded them to several other people, (with the exception of SoundXFury, all of these were before learning of its EVs). Anyone who's received a PC Shaymin from me can vouch that it has EVs upon inspection.

Here are some better pictures of the Shaymin with EVs:

http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/...t=c6c2646d.jpg
http://s1157.photobucket.com/albums/...3D4bd07826.jpg

This is the one that I got from Brawl. Seeing that he lied about trading it to me...

... I believe that my word is more trustworthy than his in this case.

People may accuse me of milking the fact that he lied for all it's worth and such. It's true. I make a point in bringing it up over and over again due to the fact that it shows my point: he is not trustworthy. If he's willing to lie about his not having traded me the Shaymin merely to protect himself from accusation of fraud, then I believe that he is willing to commit other acts of deception to both further his business and avoid convictions of scamming when he's caught.

Also, I understand that this isn't really my business, but I firmly believe that Brawl is a liar and a scammer, so I would like to help Rayce by pointing out a few things.

I believe that what you've just committed is an ad hominem fallacy. That is, you are attacking Rayce's reputation to discredit him.

By the way, can you prove that Rayce traded you those hacks?

His trading log says otherwise.
You've also committed a straw man fallacy. You've thrown up this new case in order to distract us from the old one regarding the hacks that you traded Rayce. The only response that you've made to the original one is this...

...which brings me to my last point - what picture? I don't see any pictures there, mi amici.

Thanks for pointing out that your post wasn't made to report me but you originally wanted to help Rayce in this case?

Very good you admitted you have a several clones of the Shyamin which also leads us to say you might have used carbons , iron , etc … As well as infecting your Pokemon with Pokerus and mine isn't infected. Frankly, I think your claim is being made to support Rayce's allegations for some reason.

Here Rayce wanted to make sure he read the PM he sent to Lord and I do believe that the PM included their plan

As for his trades records Mods know better that he moved his post as soon as he colaporated with Nero. I'm really not fallowing you at all you once said you wanted to report me for an issue related to both of us and then you are saying your report was made for the sake of supporting Rayce LoL.

@Dan welcome! Thanks for making that clear to everybody and the Banette with your partner just aks him. Yeah I think their problem is too personal that's all so YaaaaY!

As for the Pokegen thingy I was asked by SmeargleRocks to look at the Magikarp he sent I will ask him to state that so no one would say Brawl is lying ...

EDIT

Sent to Dan the FB so now he can tell who's lying.

**Lord Zoroark** · 5th September 2012, 1:38 AM

Originally Posted by NoToRiousBrawL

Thanks for pointing out that your post wasn't made to report me but you originally wanted to help Rayce in this case?

Very good you admitted you have a several clones of the Shyamin which also leads us to say you might have used carbons , iron , etc … As well as infecting your Pokemon with Pokerus and mine isn't infected. Frankly, I think your claim is being made to support Rayce's allegations for some reason.

Here Rayce wanted to make sure he read the PM he sent to Lord and I do believe that the PM included their plan

As for his trades records Mods know better that he moved his post as soon as he colaporated with Nero. I'm really not fallowing you at all you once said you wanted to report me for an issue related to both of us and then you are saying your report was made for the sake of supporting Rayce LoL.

@Dan welcome! Thanks for making that clear to everybody and the Banette with your partner just aks him.

As for the Pokegen thingy I was asked by SmeargleRocks to look at the Magikarp he sent I will ask him to state that so no one would say Brawl is lying ...

Deviating from the point again, Brawl? I believe that you are. You've made another ad hominem argument and another straw man in order to draw us away from the original cases.

I will state my intentions clearly: I will not respond to anything that is off-topic until either the original cases have been resolved or until a moderator asks me to.

As to your accusation that I had given the Shaymin EVs myself, my response is the same as before: it is my word versus yours. Simple as that. However, I would ask those judging the case to remember that you lied about not trading me the Shaymin to protect yourself from accusations that might have damaged your business.

You've taken pictures of your Shaymin, claimed that it was UT, and also claimed that I gave it EVs. I'd like to point out that you might have EV wiped it before taking the pictures. You yourself informed me during one of our conversations (pages 108-110 on my profile, if moderators are interested) that you have a cheating device that you use to clone. (Very sneaky about it, too, may I add...) EV wiping is easy if you have a device that can generate an infinite amount of EV wiping berries.

So, you claim that I gave the Shaymin EVs so that I could accuse you. I make the counter-claim that you EV wiped that Shaymin before taking the pictures. We know that you traded me the Shaymin (and lied about it, too). I've already traded that exact same PC Shaymin - Timid, near-flawless Hidden Power Dragon, a bunch of unneeded EVs - to other traders here on the forums. If the moderators would like me to, I can ask those people to testify that I traded them that Shaymin, and that it has EVs on it, too.

(Also, I don't see how having clones of that Shaymin necessitates your allegation of having used Proteins, Carbos, etc.)

So yet again, I state my case: you lied to me and the rest of the community about not trading the Shaymin (a proven fact that you seem to be avoiding).

I also state that you traded me this Shaymin with extra unwanted EVs. You countered this claim by stating that you believe that I gave the Shaymin the aforementioned EVs in order to accuse you and showing pictures of your Shaymin with no EVs. I am now refuting your counterclaim by stating the possibility (and my belief) that you EV wiped the Shaymin before taking your pictures.

I now stand for further interrogation.

**DizzyCobraMew** · 5th September 2012, 1:45 AM

I am here to clarify that I had NoToRiousBrawl put my cousins shiny magikarp up on pokegen nothing more he told me it looked hacked and I had Cyrius Pokecheck it and it also stated it was a hack so he had nothing to do with this ID. 00000 shiny careful magikarp lv1 I can provide all info on it including Pokecheck proof he didn't do anything with this magikarp except have it pokegen checked for me and send it back once he finished why is everyone bashing him so much??

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