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Thread: Stealth rock 5th gen

  1. #26
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    well my charazard knows

    flare blitz
    air slash
    will o wisp
    dragon dance

  2. #27
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    I have a question: when a Pokemon with Magic Mirror switches into a field with Stealth Rock, will it bounce Stealth Rock back to the opponent immediately or take damage first and then bounce back ?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13_luckynumber View Post
    I have a question: when a Pokemon with Magic Mirror switches into a field with Stealth Rock, will it bounce Stealth Rock back to the opponent immediately or take damage first and then bounce back ?
    It will only bounce back if you switch in on the turn the poke uses SR, Its not an automatic Rapid spin if SR is already on the field of play.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    And Softboil Clefable isn't illegal.
    Oh, I must've misread the illegal moveset for Clefable.

    well my charazard knows

    flare blitz
    air slash
    will o wisp
    dragon dance
    You're not utilizing Charizard's SpA, which is its higher base stat, so you might as well replace Flare Blitz with Fire Blast/Flamethrower. Plus if you want Charizard not to lose 50% of its HP, use it as your first Pokemon to send out.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMN's_SkyNet18 View Post
    Solar Power not Chlorophyll, darling xP
    Oh lol, well I was close enough.

  6. #31
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    Well actually Solar Power Charizard isn't released yet I guess. And even with Solar Power, losing 1/8 of its maximum health + a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock is just gonna make it kills itself faster. And note that Fire Blast / Focus Blast / HP Grass is resisted by Shandera, which is a hella common in Dream World.
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  7. #32
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    If it matters, Shandera is easily OHKOed by Fire Blast.

  8. #33
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    What if it's a Flash Fire Shandera lol? But actually I've done some calculation and see that a Modest Solar Power Life Orb 252 SpA Charizard's Fire Blast will only do 51.7% - 60.9% to a Scarf Shandera. Air Slash will do 64.8% - 76.2% (may OHKO after Stealth Rock switch-in), while Scarf Timid Shandera Shadow Ball will do 54.5% - 64.6%. And Shandera outspeeds, so it wins the fight, but loses a chunk of damage in the progress of doing so. Also, other Charizard counters that set, so I guess in the last slot, Hidden Power Rock would be an awesome option to kill Shandera and Charizard.

    Lol notice this thread is going off-topic from Stealth Rock discussion to Solar Power Charizard.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by artbomber_97 View Post
    What if it's a Flash Fire Shandera lol? But actually I've done some calculation and see that a Modest Solar Power Life Orb 252 SpA Charizard's Fire Blast will only do 51.7% - 60.9% to a Scarf Shandera. Air Slash will do 64.8% - 76.2% (may OHKO after Stealth Rock switch-in), while Scarf Timid Shandera Shadow Ball will do 54.5% - 64.6%. And Shandera outspeeds, so it wins the fight, but loses a chunk of damage in the progress of doing so. Also, other Charizard counters that set, so I guess in the last slot, Hidden Power Rock would be an awesome option to kill Shandera and Charizard.

    Lol notice this thread is going off-topic from Stealth Rock discussion to Solar Power Charizard.
    I got 115.7% - 136.4% lol.

    1.5 from Sun
    1.5 from Solar Power
    1.3 from Life Orb

    vs a 0/0 Shandera. But I might be wrong too. I think you left of the Solar Power or sun boost.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dattebayo View Post


    You're not utilizing Charizard's SpA, which is its higher base stat, so you might as well replace Flare Blitz with Fire Blast/Flamethrower. Plus if you want Charizard not to lose 50% of its HP, use it as your first Pokemon to send out.
    or have rapid spin support?

  11. #36
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    Hate SR. Plain and simple. It does excessive amounts of damage to perfectly good pokemon (Syther, Moltres, Vespiquen, Articuno...), has teams centralized around it, as in one to set it, clear it, and abuse it, and is widely available. You honestly can not use Focus Sash out of the lead spot. Fire, Flying, Ice, and Bug types are seen as little more than a handicap. Stealth Rock was a great addition to the game :/

    Now, shift the damage down and I can tolerate it. 6.25% as the base (12.5% is the current base), and no more than 25% HP down to a 4x weak target (Charizard), that's not too bad. All fifth gen did for Stealth Rock was expand the number of things that can use it and spread Magic Guard around a bit (Sigilyph, Alakazam via DW, and another I believe?)

    I think someone else said it first, but get rid of it (or at least, some form of counter other than Rapid Spin? Damage reduction perhaps). Then, things like Charizard may actually see the daylight.

  12. #37
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    Espeon too^

    But yeah, they need more counters than Rapid Spin. I think they need at least a 60 BP Rapid Spin that is an elemental or multiple elemental and has priority (so even slow pokes used as a sacrifice an clear thm before being KO'd). Not only that, but the Ghosts on the team would no longer be required for Spin Blocking. (In fact Ghost usage might go down a little bit) and the metagame would surely go to different places. I mean we've had Spikes since second gen, EH hav been forming the meta for awhile now.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11tjcoulombe View Post
    or have rapid spin support?
    But there's only one Rapid Spinner who's my favorite, and it's UU.

  14. #39
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    I do wonder, will SR pop up moreso on leads or midgame supporters? I've heard of leads (mostly Accelgor and Frosslass) who have Spikes but not SR. Any thoughts?
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  15. #40
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    It depends really. Some teams even have multiple supporters so a Lead might have Spikes and send in something like Ferrothorn with SR later.

    It varies person to person. Although with some new tactics SR is very predicatable and in some cases counterable.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    I got 115.7% - 136.4% lol.

    1.5 from Sun
    1.5 from Solar Power
    1.3 from Life Orb

    vs a 0/0 Shandera. But I might be wrong too. I think you left of the Solar Power or sun boost.
    Oh shit I forgot to add the Sun weather in. No wonder. X_X. I'm such a stupid guy these days. X_X. Anyway yeah, Shandera is owned. There's some last thing I want to say, you can drop Hidden Power Grass for Solar Beam, since you are in the sun anyway and it has more power, so that you can use another Hidden Power type for better coverage. But that is kinda like asking for Tyranitar or Politoed switches in and revenge you, so yeah. And after this discussion, I suddenly had an interest in Fire types and Sun teams, even though that's my least favorite type. I should try building around Charizard sometimes. It's cool.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by artbomber_97 View Post
    Oh shit I forgot to add the Sun weather in. No wonder. X_X. I'm such a stupid guy these days. X_X. Anyway yeah, Shandera is owned. There's some last thing I want to say, you can drop Hidden Power Grass for Solar Beam, since you are in the sun anyway and it has more power, so that you can use another Hidden Power type for better coverage. But that is kinda like asking for Tyranitar or Politoed switches in and revenge you, so yeah. And after this discussion, I suddenly had an interest in Fire types and Sun teams, even though that's my least favorite type. I should try building around Charizard sometimes. It's cool.
    You said it yourself really- Solarbeam is not a wise choice with all the Tyranitar running around. And tbh the only other Hidden Power Zard would want is Electric for Waters or Ground for Heatran, but bulky Waters are rarer nowadays, and Grass hits those anyway, and Balloon is Heatrans most common item. Plus Heatran can be hit by Focus Miss. Basically HP Grass is it's best option for a Grass move or a Hidden Power.
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  18. #43
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    Actually yeah, but I have tested this Charizard, and to tell you this, using FAIL BLAST IS REALLY FRUSTRATING. It misses more than it hits, and all those misses happen to be THE DECIDING HIT OF THE WHOLE GAME. This afternoon, when one of my battles come down to last pokemon, it was a Charizard vs Heatran. I thought I won. Then "Charizard used Focus Blast! Charizard's attack misses! Heatran used Fire Blast!" then gg. Fuck. Then I started using this: Fire Blast / SolarBeam / Hidden Power Fighting / Air Slash. Actually with the new Wifi Clause, you can know for sure if your opponent has Tyranitar or not, so you can avoid using SolarBeam as long as Tyranitar is not dead.
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  19. #44
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    all this charizard talk has made me decide to breed one and put it in my team, despite stealth rock
    I've read all the RNG guides and well, CAN ANYONE PLEASE HELP ME? I seriously cannot understand alot of stuff. Ill give you a pokemon or whatever in return.

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  20. #45
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    They should have made pick up more useful by picking up all entry hazards.

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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    They should have made pick up more useful by picking up all entry hazards.
    That could at least give Pick Up users like Pachirisu some use; just only bumping to UU.

  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dattebayo View Post
    But there are chances of it being illegal just like Soft Boil Cefable being illegal in the 4th gen metagame.
    How was Clefable w/ Softboil illegal? Some people still have the events, no?

    My boyfriend, for instance, has a Bold Pokepark Oddish that he uses in the current Metagame. Is that considered "illegal" too?

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  23. #48
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    Events aren't standard moves that can be just learned.

    For instance if an Eevee had Spore from an event, it would be illegal more than likely.
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mewtwo_soul View Post
    Events aren't standard moves that can be just learned.

    For instance if an Eevee had Spore from an event, it would be illegal more than likely.
    Then did they allowed Crown Entei in the metagame?

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dattebayo View Post
    Then did they allowed Crown Entei in the metagame?
    Any Pokemon that can be captured or received without cheating is allowed.

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