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Thread: Community POTW #10

  1. #26
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    Finally, Samurott

    Special Sweeper:
    Nature: Mild/Hasty
    Ability: Torrent
    -Surf/Scald
    -Ice Beam
    -Grass Knot
    -Return
    Surf and Scald for STAB. Ice Beam covers Grasses. Grass Knot handles other Waters. Return for Water-Normal coverage.

    Swords Dance:
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    Ability: Torrent/Shell Armor
    -Swords Dance
    -Waterfall/Aqua Tail/Aqua Jet
    -X-Scissor
    -Dragon Tail
    Swords Dance for duh. Waterfall, Aqua Tail and Aqua Jet for STAB. X-Scissor covers Grasses. Dragon Tail hurts Dragons.


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  2. #27
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    Physical Unicorn-Thingy@ Life Orb/Muscle Band/ Expert Belt
    252 Att, 252 HP, 4 Spe
    Adamant/Jolly
    Torrent
    -Swords Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Megahorn/X-Scissor
    -Night Slash/Dragon Tail/Hydro Pump/Aqua Jet
    Swords Dance is a must on a Physical set. Waterfall is the obvious STAB Physical move, you might want to consider Aqua Tail, but Waterfall is pretty much better. Megahorn over X-Scissor if you want Power over Accuracy, otherwise, X-Scissor is much more reliable. The final move is basically for coverage. Night Slash is for Psychic's and Ghost that aren't really a problem, Dragon Tail is to force a threat out, but has negative priority, Hydro Pump so Physical Walls don't slap you in the face, and Aqua Jet if you are opting for the quick kill.

  3. #28
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    I am not sure this will work but how about this:
    Mega-Stalling Unicorn@ Leftovers
    252 HP, Put the rest in Defenses equally
    Calm/Careful
    Shell Armor
    -Toxic
    -Protect
    -Detect
    -Taunt/Rest/Substitute/Hydro Pump
    Toxic stalling at it's very best. Toxic then Protect, then Detect, Taunt so the opponent can't try something funny on you, Rest to heal damage while Toxic hurt them, Substitute so the opponent cannot touch you, Hydro Pump so your not Taunt bait.
    EDIT: Encore and Dragon Tail should be considered as moves as well for obvious reasons.
    Last edited by TheAwesomeOne; 7th March 2011 at 8:43 PM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAwesomeOne View Post
    I am not sure this will work but how about this:
    Mega-Stalling Unicorn@ Leftovers
    252 HP, Put the rest in Defenses equally
    Calm/Careful
    Shell Armor
    -Toxic
    -Protect
    -Detect
    -Taunt/Rest/Substitute/Hydro Pump
    Toxic stalling at it's very best. Toxic then Protect, then Detect, Taunt so the opponent can't try something funny on you, Rest to heal damage while Toxic hurt them, Substitute so the opponent cannot touch you, Hydro Pump so your not Taunt bait.
    EDIT: Encore and Dragon Tail should be considered as moves as well for obvious reasons.
    Though this is a good set in theory, you need to keep guys like Whimsicott, Frosslass and Aerodactyl from Taunting you, and they can nail you with it when you try to set up Toxic. Samurott is too slow to beat out most major Taunt carriers with it's own taunt, so it should carry an attack in the last slot. Also, Poison and Steel types completely shut this set down, especially Grass/Poison types that carry super effective STABs against Samurott. Finally, though this is more of a personal thing, I don't think Hydro Pump is good for a stalling set, since he'll be on the field for a while and needs a high PP move like Surf.

    The Protect + Detect thing does seem pretty cheap on paper, but Detect only has 5 PP so I guess it may be alright. Since Pressure carriers (Especially DW Bisharp) can deplete the moves faster, it may be remotely acceptable. I'd say wait and see if this is legal though, because I know set ups like Double Team + Sand Veil aren't allowed since they make you pretty much untouchable, and on paper this is a pseudo version of that, minus the ability to attack also (But that's why Toxic is there).
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  5. #30
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    He has Revenge. Anybody think it's useful?

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAwesomeOne View Post
    I am not sure this will work but how about this:
    Mega-Stalling Unicorn@ Leftovers
    252 HP, Put the rest in Defenses equally
    Calm/Careful
    Shell Armor
    -Toxic
    -Protect
    -Detect
    -Taunt/Rest/Substitute/Hydro Pump
    Toxic stalling at it's very best. Toxic then Protect, then Detect, Taunt so the opponent can't try something funny on you, Rest to heal damage while Toxic hurt them, Substitute so the opponent cannot touch you, Hydro Pump so your not Taunt bait.
    EDIT: Encore and Dragon Tail should be considered as moves as well for obvious reasons.
    If I remember correctly using Protect then Detect still has the 50% chance on the second use.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by assassinsceptile View Post
    If I remember correctly using Protect then Detect still has the 50% chance on the second use.
    Doc's right, Protect and Detect use the same 'counter' so it's impossible to 'Protect' 100% of the time.
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  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excadrill View Post
    He has Revenge. Anybody think it's useful?
    No. Samurott would only benefit in hitting Empoleon harder and that won't help when Empoleon can set up and Grass Knot it. Otherwise using a -priority move on anything that can use speed is pretty useless. That's why only slow things that are good at taking hits like Swampert would consider using those types of attacks.
        Spoiler:- Spoiler:

  9. #34

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    Daikenki@Liechi / Salac Berry (w/ sub), @Life Orb/Leftovers with Aqua Jet
    Trait: Torrent
    Nature: Adamant
    - Substitute / Aqua Jet
    - Swords Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Megahorn

    Things like this probably don't work anymore. Priority is just too common, with 3 Mach Punchers used and Scizor and Dragonite still viable. Running Aqua Jet is probably more viable, since it lets you abuse the already abused priority. Also, anyone who thinks Megahorn's accuracy makes it less usable than X-Scizzor... =/

    Water+Bug is the best physical type coverage this can get, exceeded maybe by Water/Fighting.

    Daikenki just misses out on a lot. It doesn't get Sleep Talk, which means it has no way to tank as most Waters can. At every thing else it's just inferior. I see too many things coming in that can just block it ... Gyarados can set up on just about any set, Salamence and Dragonite on any physical set, Breloom as long as it doesn't inconveniently eat an Ice Beam, and other things that will simply set up on it, like Rankurusu on Special sets and Roobushin in general. I love Daikenki's design, but it's not breaching UU.

    At best, in UU, it can try to run a decent attacking set. If anywhere, it is UU that Chesto-Rest Swords Dance is viable.

    Daikenki (M) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Shell Armor / Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 76 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Rest
    - Waterfall
    - Megahorn

    This may seem gimmicky, but it gets past a good few teams in UU. Tangrowth is OHKOed by a +4 Megahorn, and Tangrowth cannot OHKO Daikenki (~75% with Power Whip). Milotic at most can Toxic Daikenki, then it'll just sit back, thinking that it's been countered and Milotic can easily hold it off as the Toxic builds up, but when Daikenki is at +6 it can Rest off all damage, remove Toxic, and OHKO even the most Physically Defensive Milotic easily. Offensive threats in UU like Lucario and Terakion have to face +2 Waterfalls, and neither can KO first. Threats to this are stuff like Raikou, who can blast its Special side to oblivion with 115 Satk Thunderbolts or stuff like Suicune that can CM up and phaze Daikenki. Roserade with Grass STAB easily handles it too, though it can't take a +2 Megahorn it can OHKO with Leaf Storm. An alternate EV spread for this could be EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 36 Def / 136 SDef, which allows it to take Tangrowth's Power Whip still and handle special attacks pretty well. 84 Atk EVs still ensures the OHKO of Tangrowth at +4 Atk with Stealth Rock / 1 layer of Spikes up.
    Last edited by Whereabouts Unknown; 8th March 2011 at 9:31 AM.

  10. #35
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    ~Revenge Killer~
    Samurott@Choice Scarf/Choice Band
    Ability: Torrent/Shell Armor
    Adamant Nature/Jolly Nature(+Atk,-Sp.A)/(+Spd,-Sp.A)
    252Atk/252Spd/4HP
    -moves-
    Aqua Jet
    Waterfall/Aqua Tail
    Megahorn
    Retaliate/Revenge

    If you want more power on the revenge, go with CB. More speed in it, go CS. Same goes for the Natures. Retaliate does more damage, but Revenge gives more coverage. Megahorn can destroy many pokemon, and Waterfall/Aqua Tail and Aqua Jet are for some STAB.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAwesomeOne View Post
    Physical Unicorn-Thingy@ Life Orb/Muscle Band/ Expert Belt
    252 Att, 252 HP, 4 Spe
    Adamant/Jolly
    Torrent
    -Swords Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Megahorn/X-Scissor
    -Night Slash/Dragon Tail/Hydro Pump/Aqua Jet
    Swords Dance is a must on a Physical set. Waterfall is the obvious STAB Physical move, you might want to consider Aqua Tail, but Waterfall is pretty much better. Megahorn over X-Scissor if you want Power over Accuracy, otherwise, X-Scissor is much more reliable. The final move is basically for coverage. Night Slash is for Psychic's and Ghost that aren't really a problem, Dragon Tail is to force a threat out, but has negative priority, Hydro Pump so Physical Walls don't slap you in the face, and Aqua Jet if you are opting for the quick kill.
    Much more reliable? It is only a 15% boost in accuracy, but it is still better. Aqua Tail is a mediocre move because of the accuracy, and poor distribution.

  12. #37
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    just wanna say well done for forgetting that emboar gets head smash.

    samurott should have what, swords dance and a special set of some kind. it's a shame it can't do much. :/

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by otaku-dono View Post
    just wanna say well done for forgetting that emboar gets head smash.
    Offensive Emboar sets don't need Head Smash to net the same KO's. It's an unnecessary recoil attack.
        Spoiler:- Spoiler:

  14. #39
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    Reckless Head Smash hits harder than Tyranitar Stone Edge. Thats pretty big considering its literally the only thing Emboar does that Infernape and Blaziken can't do.

    Anyhow stay on topic. If you want Head Smash added to the Emboar POTW (as it should be) bug Reno as he writes these. This thread is for listing Samurott sets.

  15. #40
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    Ok, Samurott. Aside from looking cool, it seems pretty typical Water type. Looking for some kind of unique niche, the only real thing that jumps out is decent Attack AND Special Attack. Its movepool isn't huge (how Empoleon gets EQ and this thing doesn't I'll never know) but it least have a few decent options on each side. Of course, Physical sets invite competition from Feraligatr, and special sets with Empoleon. (among many others) But what about doing both...

    Choice Scarf Revenge Killer
    Hasty nature (+Speed - Def)

    Waterfall/Shell Blade/Hydro Pump
    Retaliate/Return
    Ice Beam
    Megahorn/Air Slash/Grass Knot
    @Choice Scarf

    EVs will depend on whether you're going for physical or special bias, but always max speed. I'd go for Physical bias myself, as it gets you the great Water/Normal combo, plus the benefit of Megahorn.

    Waterfall is the more reliable option for STAB. Shell Blade has a bit less power and accuracy, but comes with a 50% chance of a Defence drop, which is a tempting option. Although if you're revenge killing chances are you won't be in long enough to take advantage of it, so Waterfall may be the better option. Hydro Pump is if you want special STAB, it could go in one of the other slots too, but be careful there. (Substitute HP for Surf if you want reliability)

    Retaliate is the main attraction of the set. A physical Normal move that becomes 140 power if a teammate fainted in the previous turn, which gels very well with this set. If you prefer consistent power though, Return is always an option.

    Ice Beam has no physical equivalent, and allows you to revenge kill several common Pokemon. You only need a small investment in Special Attack to get a guaranteed OHKO on min-HP Garchomp. (although I'm not sure if bulky spreads are in vogue now)

    The last move is just an extra coverage option, both Megahorn and Air Slash hit Grass types, Grass Knot is for other Waters. Your choice will depend on your bias, as well as what your team needs to cover.


    Other Options:
    -Revenge gets decent coverage, but you'll likely be hitting at a measly 60 BP most of the time, and to get the boost you'll need to take a hit from something faster than you... which isn't a good idea.
    -Hidden Power (probably Electric) is an option for special bias, but as I'm an in-game player I don't really have much experience with HPs, which is why I haven't listed it on the main set.

    One final note: +Nature, Max speed Samurott misses out on outspeeding +Speed base 130's at Level 100, but not so at Level 50. Just thought I'd mention that, because random WiFi and most Nintendo tournaments are played in Lv 50 mode, and this advantage could be crucial to anyone playing that environment.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAwesomeOne View Post
    Everyone keeps saying how a rubbish move Dragon Tail is, but why is it posted as a move in every POTW (For Poké's that learn it)?
    Dragon Tail is basically Roar/Whirlwind plus Physical Damage. Plus, its base power allows for Technician Ability's Boost (which, in Samurott's case, requires a Double/Triple partner with Skill Swap). Speaking of Technician...

    Technical Exchange
    Stats: Adamant/Careful/Brave/Sassy, 252 Attack, fill HP and defenses as you see fit for Doubles/Triples. Speed can "safely" be ignored.
    Ability: Either, but Shell Armor is preferred since you'll hit this Samurott with a Technician Pokemon's Skill Swap and it could use the defensive Ability.
    Moves: Dragon Tail, Aerial Ace, Revenge/Megahorn, Aqua Jet/Aqua Tail

    Aqua Tail is the only thing that doesn't get Technician boosted, but Aqua Jet is good enough for a low-HP KO.

    Megahorn for Adamant/Careful, Revenge for Brave/Sassy, choice depends on what Types you want to counter - Megahorn for Psychic or Revenge for Steel. Both handle Dark and Aerial Ace already handles Flying, so Revenge is recommended).

    Dragon Tail helps if your partner can throw out traps (especially Stealth Rock). If you wan to be more reliable with coverage, go with both Revenge and Megahorn instead.

  17. #42
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    ^^I said that I get!!!

    But what I what I actually meant is, loads of people are saying that it is crap-NOT ME
    So why does everyone then go and post it in a move set?

    That is what I meant, and everyone thinks that I am hating on this move (I do not need you to reply saying that you weren't, because I am talking in general).

    Nuff said.

  18. #43
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    No Choice Band love?


    Samurai of Choice (Band)

    Samurott w/ Choice Band + Torrent
    Adamant Nature; 252 Attack, 252 HP, 6 Defense

    Aqua Jet
    Revenge
    Night Slash
    Megahorn/Return/Shell Blade


    So, this set aims to hit very hard on the physical side. Aqua Jet disregards your low speed, and hits quite hard indeed with the Band and STAB. Revenge would normally seem like an odd choice, but by not investing in Samurott's already rather bad speed, you can almost guarantee the boost, providing a powerful physical move. Night Slash combines with Revenge for near-perfect coverage (resisted by only Heracross and Toxicroak, iirc). The last move depends on your needs. If you want a more powerful water move than Aqua Jet, you can always go for Shell Blade. However, Megahorn and Return both get great coverage with Aqua Jet. Megahorn hits harder and destroys grass-type switch-ins. However, Return has more reliable accuracy, but doesn't hit as hard, and doesn't hit anything super-effectively. Torrent is the ability of Choice- after frequent switching in and out, you're bound to take a few hits, and likely soak up a lot of entry hazard damage. With Torrent, you can turn this to your advantage, putting your opponent in a bad situation when you pull out a barrage of Torrent-boosted, STAB, Banded Aqua Jets late game when their water resistors are either taken out or too low on health to do their job.
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  19. #44

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    I personally think this guy should be used mostly in UU battles. He's just too outclassed in OU. On that note, Megahorn+Water STAB should provide plenty of neutral coverage. Iirc, the only notable things allowed in UU that resist that combination are Poliwrath, Empoleon, and Quilfish, none of which are too common. Therefore, it might be a good idea to just run a SD set with Megahorn and Aqua Jet, with Waterfall for a strong Water STAB when you don't need priority. To be honest, Samurott really isn't bulky enough to get the full milage out of Revenge or Dragon tail, so Return and Night Slash are really his only other good options. Both will help handle Poliwrath and Quilfish a little more easily, but neither really helps against Empoleon.

    On another note, Samurott actually works pretty well with a special set. It may not have a boosting move or priority, but its special attack is its higher offensive stat. It also has a few pretty good special moves, like Surf, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, and Air Slash. Just thought I'd point that out. Otherwise, it's just an inferior Feraligator, who beats it in every stat but HP and special defense, has a better offensive movepool, has Dragon Dance, and can take advantage of Sheer Force.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    if you combine it with stealth rock and/or spikes you could do some serious damage by forcing the other team to rotate repeatedly and get exposed if you can take the hits. choice band and STAB can make it a deadly strategy, especially if youre playing with less than 6 (say battle subway)
    sur;ey you would want choice scarf because it ups you speed
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  21. #46
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    ^Dragon Tail has negative priority.
    So it would still go last.

  22. #47
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    Default Countering Samurott, and an Idea

    Countering Samurott

    Everyone pretty much has Samurott down. It's an inferior Gyarados/Feraligtr with Megahorn and Aqua Jet. It has a pretty good Special Attack, but with no way to raise it outside of items and poor speed it's tough turning it into a special sweeper.

    But with Life Orb it can be a pretty good mixed attacker.

    Samurott is basically a bulky water and the usual counters for them work here as well. Bulky Grass (watch out for Ice Beam), Bulky Water, and possibly Bulky Steel since most will be running sword dance, to abuse Waterfall/Aqua Jet, Megahorn, and Dragon Tail.

    Empoleon with Grass Knot, destroys Samurott resisting all of the Sword Dancer attacks. The only thing Samurott can do is hope to Dragon Tail it away. Once again I recommend Empoleon as a counter, and hopefully he'll be used again, check Cloyster counters


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  23. #48
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    MixRott
    Moves:
    - Waterfall/Aqua Tail
    - Grass Knot
    - Megahorn/X-Scissor
    - Air Slash/Ice Beam
    Item Attached: Life Orb/Choice Scarf
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs and Nature:
    EVs: 252 Spd / 126 Atk / 126 Sp. Atk
    Naive (+Spd, -Sp.Def) / Hasty (+Spd, -Def)

    Samurott's movepool can give him a great mixed set. He has many great STABs to work with, Surf, Waterfall, Scald, Aqua Jet, and Aqua Tail. For this set, I prefer Waterfall because it's more reliable than Aqua Tail, and it's better to have two physical base options, and two special base options, to go through the common Blissey/Skarmory. Grass Knot is for the bulkier waters like Seismitoad and Swampert, and gets a great hit on Carracosta, which Waterfall wouldn't get an as great hit on cause of it's defense. Megahorn or X-Scissor is for taking out Exeggutor and opposing Grasses. Air Slash covers Fighting types well, especially since the 5th Gen is filled with all new fighting types and Scrafty that could wall Samurott with it's high defences, but Ice Beam has great coverage with Waterfall, and since Dragons would resist all of Samurott's other attacks, and the new dragons in 5th Gen. Plus, with Air Slash, you won't get your special base neutral hit on Skarmory. Life Orb is good for all sets, with the cost of a little HP each turn. Choice Scarf makes Samurott a faster opponent and revenge killer. Torrent is just better than Shell Armor.. Shell Armor is pretty useless. All Pokemon that hold Super Luck are taken down by Megahorn and Ice Beam anyway, so there's no need. The given EVs even out Samurott's offensive capabilities, and give him a 262 speed, outrunning the base 125 speed Pokemon and Shaymin-S. Samurott's speed with a Scarf is 393, and unforunately, it's just short of the common Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and Crobat, but won't set him back far.
    Last edited by Pokeman Man; 10th March 2011 at 11:35 PM.

  24. #49

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    for the double battle set it's probably better to go

    item: wacan berry / sitrus berry
    nature: quiet / modest
    surf / scald / hydro pump
    grass knot / aqua jet
    ice beam / grass knot / blizzard
    detect

    pretty straightforward. surf, scald, or hydro pump for stab, grass knot for other waters, and ice beam for fliers. aqua jet can pick off weakened pokemon (like with sash). blizzard is best when it's paired with abomasnow, if abomasnow isn't allowed, probably don't bother unless you can handle misses. detect lets you stall a turn while your other pokemon attacks and can't be imprisoned as easily as protect.

    the pledge combos are not very good in a serious battle, you might as well just hit them with a stronger stab attack instead of trying to set up the rainbow and only have a couple turns to use it (less if they like to stall with double protects)

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAwesomeOne View Post
    ^^I said that I get!!!

    But what I what I actually meant is, loads of people are saying that it is crap-NOT ME
    So why does everyone then go and post it in a move set?

    That is what I meant, and everyone thinks that I am hating on this move (I do not need you to reply saying that you weren't, because I am talking in general).

    Nuff said.
    Sorry, I just needed some kind of intro to the setup - I didn't mean anything by it. People just hate Dragon Moves' Type Coverage - Great VS Non-Steel Dragons only, Okay VS Non-Steels and Steel/Dragon, Bad VS Steel, with Steel being the biggest PITA to both cover AND hit the lower defense with the higher attack. They'll complain until Game Freak changes Dragon somehow.

    I, for one, love Dragon Moves because they're so easy to Type-supplement:

    Slow & Steady Mixing
    -Brave/Sassy
    -252 Attack & Sp.Atk, 6 Sp.Def/HP -OR- 129 Attack & Sp.Atk, 252 Sp.Def/HP
    -Ability doesn't matter
    -Dragon Tail, Revenge, Brine, Hidden Power (Dark)
    -Leftovers, Rocky Helmet, or Expert Belt

    This setup allows coverage all around:
    --Dark + Fighting will cover all except Heracross and Toxicroak (both handled by Dragon Tail or Brine unless Tox has Dry Skin).
    --Water + Dragon handles all except Empoleon, Ferrothorn, and Shedinja (anyone using Shedinja will be screwed by SR or Spikes anyway, Empoleon and Ferrothorn are handled by Revenge)

    Set up a Stealth Rock then send Samurott out. Like a Samurai in a test of wills, you must be patient, lucky, and skilled to pull this off. Brine will easily pick off any types that take 50% from Stealth Rock, Revenge will play into your already-sub-mediocre speed quite well, Dragon Tail will force SR hits, HP (Dark) for coverage.

    The few Spinners that outspeed Samurott will take massive damage coming into SR and/or from Revenge. The Defoggers (if they ever try) are similarly vulnerable to Brine, Dragon Tail, or HP Dark.

    Concerns with this set involve low-ish Move powers, Suction Cups, and the conditions you'll need to meet to fight effectively. Also, the fact 200+ Pokemon will out-Speed you is a cause for caution.

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