Community POTW #12

[Serebii]

Reno's busy writing the last one so here's the next one



This week we'll be doing Darmanitan. The Pokémon with two unique abilities which require completely seperate planning for use. I want to see great sets utilising these abilities

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/555.shtml

[Ψosiden]

When it says, 'the move will lose it's secondary effect' in the description of the Sheer Force ability, does that include recoil, and stat losses? If it does, Flare Blitz and Superpower could make very good moves for this. If not, it is a lot more limeted.

[Mr. Marowak]

Jellicent laughs at such a Pokemon.

Also, just a warning. No HyperBeam, NO Giga Impact!

[Serebii]

When it says, 'the move will lose it's secondary effect' in the description of the Sheer Force ability, does that include recoil, and stat losses? If it does, Flare Blitz and Superpower could make very good moves for this. If not, it is a lot more limeted.

No. Sheer Force only works on moves which offer status afflictions or give a chance of the opponent's stats getting lowered. It's basically the inverse of Serene Grace.

Flare Blitz DOES get the boost, but it doesn't lose the recoil

[ultimatedarkrai]

Darmanitan@life orb/choice band
Nature: adamant
Evs:4 hp 252 atk 252 spd
Ability:sheer force

Flare blitz/fire punch
stone edge
superpower/earthquake
u-turn

Basically, your two main stabs get the boost form sheer force making fire punch acceptable over flare blitz for no recoil but flare blitz is still much better. Stone edge doesnt get the sheer force boost but combos well with the stab and is a great move in general. Superpower gets a lot of power and neutral coverage on all pokemon i believe, but EQ is an option but leaves you weak to flygon and others and fire moves get similar coverage to it. U-turn is just to get out should you need to. For the item, if you want choice band for more power or life orb and more freedom

[daveshan]

No. Sheer Force only works on moves which offer status afflictions or give a chance of the opponent's stats getting lowered. It's basically the inverse of Serene Grace.

Flare Blitz DOES get the boost, but it doesn't lose the recoil

Isn't there a trick, though, that sheer force + life orb + move with secondary effect = No LO recoil?

EDIT: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/blog.php?b=26034

A bunch of other sites also confirm this.

With that being said, this guy's moveset is gonna change DRASTICALLY when the RS remakes and the 3rd game come out.

[Zachmac]

Well, zen mode is going to be a tricky one to use, and it can't have any egg moves...
Darmanitan
ZenMode/Sitris Berry
Bold(I can't decide EVs).
-Substitute
-Flamethrower/Fireblast
-Psychic
-GrassKnot

Use substitute to get down to 50% health, and restore 25% of your health health with your sitris berry. Flamethrower, FireBlast, Psychic are all for stab, and GrassKnot hit Rock and Water types.

I based this of a belly drum snorlax set in the last thread.

Isn't there a trick, though, that sheer force + life orb + move with secondary effect = No LO recoil?

If there is, I never heard of it. Maybe it should be tested out.

Oh, I just thought of a belly drum set. But, it won't be legal until the pinch berries are released.
Darmanitan
Jolly/Adamant/252att/252speed
SheerForce/SalacBerry
-Substitute
-BellyDrum
-FirePunch
-BrickBreak/Earthquake

Use it like a substitute bellyzard, but save this set for later, as the salac berry is banned until it is released.

NitroCharge
Adamant/252att/252Speed
SheerForce/
-NitroCharge
-FirePunch
-Earthquake
-StoneEdge

[Meowmeow]

Grrrr. Still waiting for Eelektross. I'm just going to keep waiting.

Anyway, Darmanitan. Gotta love that monster attack stat.

Choicemanitan
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 252 ATK and Speed, 4 HP
@: Choice Scarf/Choice Band

-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
-Superpower
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake

Darmanitan's stats put it in the direction of a choice item user. Two 120 power attacks and two 100 power attacks. Awesome. Fire Punch can be used over Flare Blitz if you have an issue with the recoil.

Bulkmanitan
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Jolly
EVs: same as the last one
@: Life Orb/Leftovers

-Bulk Up
-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide

Not too difficult to figure out.

Drummanitan
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Jolly
EVs: same as the last one
@: Life Orb/Leftovers/Salac Berry

-Belly Drum
-Fire Punch
-Earthquake|Substitute
-Rock Slide|Focus Punch

This can be a straightforward Belly Drum route, or a variation of Bellyzard. Either way, you need great prediction.

Chargemanitan
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Adamant
EVs: same as the last one
@: Life Orb/Leftovers

-Flame Charge
-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch/Rock Slide/Earthquake/Superpower
-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch/Rock Slide/Earthquake/Superpower
-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch/Rock Slide/Earthquake/Superpower

Perhaps this should be known as "Rocketmanitan"! Flame Charge will kick some speed and then you launch some monster power.

Zenmanitan-Doll Style!
Ability: Zen Mode
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Special Attack/126 defense and special defense/4 HP
@: Wise Glasses/Black Sludge/Petaya Berry

-Substitute
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Overheat
-Psychic
-Focus Blast/Grass Knot

The idea is to trigger Zen Mode manually. Substitute cuts the HP to activate the Zen. After that, special attacks. Black Sludge is an option, but a very dangerous one. It quickens the activation of Zen Mode, but it also limits how long this can be used. If you want to be safe, give it Wise Glasses. Since Zenmanitan will be with low HP, Petaya Berry can work great.

Zenmanitan-Choice style!
Ability: Zen Mode
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Defense and Special Defense/4 Special Attack
@: Choice Specs

-Flamethrower/Overheat/Fire Blast
-Grass Knot
-Psychic
-Focus Blast

Let your opponent unleash Darmanitan's Zen by taking damage. The EVs may seem odd, but Pre-Zen Mode Darmanitan is fragile, so it needs the bulk to survive.

Counters
Aerodactyle can one-hit it with Stone Edge. It can switch into the fire attack and Earthquake and Darmanitan down. Also, Stealth Rock will not be something that Darmanitan will appreciate, unless it has Zen Mode. Basically, a solid super effective attack from something faster will put it down. Otherwise, Gyarados can switch into anything not called Stone Edge and trigger Intimidate and smash through with Waterfall. The traditional Physical Walls like Skarmory and Forretress are benched here for obvious reasons.

As for Zenmanitan, Chansey, Gyarados, and to a lesser extent Snorlax can tolerate Zenmanitan and cripple the lowered HP with Toxic.

Cinccino will get a special mention because of Skill Link Rock Blast. It breaks Substitutes and the squishy Darmanitan it shields. However, Zenmanitan may have enough bulk when Zen Mode is active. Another way to counter Zenmanitan is the move Heal Pulse.

Other Options

Physical STAB on Zenmanitan can work as something to use while you are not in Zen Mode, but it's better to just try to activate it.
Belly Drum can automatically activate Zen Mode, but the better route is to use substitute because it's safer.
Hammer Arm can be used over Superpower if the attack drop is something you want to avoid, but Darmanitan will still have plenty of attack after a Superpower and a drop in speed and base power and accuracy is a worse way to go.
Brick Break is a choice if you don't want any stat drops.
Uproar is a special mention because it makes Darmanitan immune to sleep, but Darmanitan does not want to be locked at all, Zen Mode or not.
Focus Sash can be useful for activating Zen Mode, but the slow down factor and the common sandstorms make you look bad. It could work with a non-Zen Darmanitan for a lead set with Taunt and U-Turn, but that is something that puts Darmanitan's offensive magic through waste management plants. Better to think "how can I sweep the unlucky soul?" rather than "how can I annoy the unlucky soul?" when using Darmanitan.
Speaking of which, U-Turn can be useful for hit and run tactics. But passing up an uber-power move (100+ base power) for guerrilla tactics pacifies that 140 attack stat.
Stone Edge gets critical hits, but don't depend on criticals. Ever. You can rely on them, but not depend on them. Besides, Rock Slide hits harder, which I unfortunately found out significantly later.
Salac Berry can be used with outside of Drummanitan, but its not a good idea. Same goes for Liechi Berry.

I hope I did well. Please comment, I want some feedback on how well I'm doing!

[Ghosts of the Forums]

Darmanitan @Life Orb
Sheer Force
Jolly
-Flare Blitz
-Stone Edge/Bulk Up
-U-turn
-Bulldoze/Earthquake/Bulk Up

[rukarion]

zen master
zen mode
peteya berry
modest/jolly
substitute
psycic
fire blast,flamethrower
focus blast

easy peasy

sub sets off zen mode low health causes berry to go
(get it by using a pokemon with false swipe and pick up on morimoto's simi's and you will get one)

[Spacial Rend]

Sheer Force CB:
Flare Blitz
Superpower
Rock Slide
Earthquake/U-Turn
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252/252 attack/speed, 4 HP

Max Speed allows it to outrun all non-speed boosted base 108 speeds. The idea is to hit insanely hard, or switch with U-Turn, which deals insane damage. Earthquake is an option, but I prefer U-Turn.

Zen Mode Belly Drum
Belly Drum
Fire Punch
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Nature: Jolly
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252/252 attack/speed

This set seems really odd at first, considering Zen mode's base 30 attack. The idea is to sweep with Darmanitan at first, then use belly drum. Belly drum is to set it into Zen mode, which will boost its defences. The seeming-childish attack of 159 will get boosted to 1272, and darmanitan's defences will let it live. The point is for the set to be unexpected, making it all the better.

[TheAwesomeOne]

Darmanitan@Life Orb/Liechi Berry
Sheer Force
Jolly
4 HP, 252 Att, 252 Spe
-Fire Punch
-Belly Drum
-Substitute
-U-Turn/Stone Edge/Earthquake
It can't quite do it like Charizard, but it can try. Belly Drum+Sub activates Liechi. Sweep with Fire Punch. U-Turn is to escape but Stealth Rocks will KO it. Stone Edge and Earthquake to take out Fire types.

[Meowmeow]

Darmanitan@Life Orb/Liechi Berry
Sheer Force
Jolly
4 HP, 252 Att, 252 Spe
-Fire Punch
-Belly Drum
-Substitute
-U-Turn/Stone Edge/Earthquake
It can't quite do it like Charizard, but it can try. Belly Drum+Sub activates Liechi. Sweep with Fire Punch. U-Turn is to escape but Stealth Rocks will KO it. Stone Edge and Earthquake to take out Fire types.

Belly Drum already maxes out the attack stat. Liechi is better replaced by the Salac.

[Serebii]

Isn't there a trick, though, that sheer force + life orb + move with secondary effect = No LO recoil?

EDIT: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/blog.php?b=26034

A bunch of other sites also confirm this.

With that being said, this guy's moveset is gonna change DRASTICALLY when the RS remakes and the 3rd game come out.

Yes there is. However, it gets Flare Blitz recoil still, which was what was being discussed

Well, zen mode is going to be a tricky one to use, and it can't have any egg moves...

If you manage to get a female Zen Mode Darmanitan, you CAN breed it and the offspring has a 50% chance of having Inner Focus, which when Darumaka evolves, turns into Zen Mode. It CAN have Egg Moves

[TheAwesomeOne]

The Life Orb+Sheer Force Trick is useless because all of moves are Fire type, excluding Smack Down.

[Pichu47]

Scarfitan

Darmanitan@ choice scarf
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Sheer Force
EV’s: 252 spe 252 attack 4 hp

Moves:
1. Flare Blitz
2. Earthquake
3. Rock slide
4. U-turn

Darmanitan should be OU. Anyway, Flare Blitz with sheer force and STAB does around 250 damage, which will hurt things badly even if it is not very effective. Earthquake gets coverage, as does rock slide. U-turn can be used if things don’t start out well. Sheer force is to boost flare blitz and rock slide. Adamant is for more damage! 128 speeds are to outrun stuff. 128 HP is to help survive recoil damage. Attack is to hit harder. Well, waddaya think? Critiquing much appreciated. Thank You.

[jesusfreak94]

^This guy's got it. Rock Slide over Stone Edge. Always Rock Slide over Stone Edge. Stone Edge does not get the Sheer Force boost, but Rock Slide does (flinch rate). So Rock Slide is pretty much a Stone Edge with 10% more accuracy.

[bulber]

Snorlax is the first Pokemon of the Wee!

Life Orb with no Recoil, wow!

[gyaradosuseddragonrage!]

The Life Orb+Sheer Force Trick is useless because all of moves are Fire type, excluding Smack Down.

The trick is incredibly useful because of Flare Blitz, Rock Slide, and Fire Punch all getting the Sheer Force + Life Orb boost, as well as Flare Blitz and Fire Punch getting STAB, making for a very strong attack. Also does Flame Charge get the Sheer Force boost? If it does, then it DOESN'T boost speed.

[TheAwesomeOne]

I meant that those are the only moves it is useful for on Darmaniton.
And still, it will get walled by Bulky Waters and other Pokés.

[ultimatedarkrai]

Darmanitan @Life Orb
Sheer Force
Jolly
-Flare Blitz
-Stone Edge/Bulk Up
-U-turn
-Bulldoze/Earthquake/Bulk Up

Bulldoze still only gets 80 base power and no speed lowering after sheer force i believe while EQ gets 100 base power so it is useless

[TimmahX]

Well since everyone is doing move sets, I'll take a shot at counters.

Heatran is as usual, one of the first ones to come to mind. It can switch into Flare Blitz and send an Earth Power back. Omastar, Sharpedo and Kabutops get nice switch in opportunities off of Flare Blitz, and send back strong Hydro Pumps, Earth Powers, Aqua Jets, Waterfalls and Stone Edges. Dragonite with Aqua Jet is a pretty safe switch in with Multiscale. Dugtrio is a nice and easy revenge killer. Starmie outruns and wrecks it with it's water STAB attacks. Thunder Wave shuts down most sweeping attempts, so fast carries of this move, such as Jolteon, Ambipom, Zebstrika, etc. can be useful. Bulky Water types are good choices, because 140 Base Attack and Sheer Force is scary to switch into, even though they'll take huge hits regardless. Blastoise, Cloyster, Swampert, Carracosta carry high Defense, but you can always expand to others such as Vaporeon, Lanturn, Lapras, Quagasire. Frankly, it's hard to counter something this fast and strong unless you can heavily reduce the damage you take on a switch in or score a revenge kill. There are plenty of things that outrun Darmanitan, but on the Choice Scarf variants, that window shuts to a near close.

[TheAwesomeOne]

The thing that is bad about Darmaniton is that it doesn't have Thinderpunch or Wild Charge, so bulky Water types can come in and hit back with Surf. The first ones that come to mind are Vaporeon and Milotic.

[Kraleck]

Zen Mode Mixer
Stats: Quiet, 129 Attack & Sp.Atk, 252 HP
Ability: Zen Mode (duh)
Moves: Flare Blitz, Psychic, Grass Knot/Focus Blast/Hidden Power, Rest
Item: Shell Bell

Basically, you'll use F.Blitz to get to/below 50% HP, then Psychic for STAB and the other Special Move (Grass Knot for heavier counters, Focus Blast for Dark non-Ghost Types, Hidden Power for other potential counters) for Zen Form. Shell Bell will help stave off a premature KO when above 50% HP. Rest is there when an emergency arises.

Switching into Stealth Rock, while suicidal, may help achieve your "karmic balance" if you switch into a weak-sauce Move.

Countering Darmanitan
-Sheer Force
Low Defenses make it a glass cannon to faster Pokemon, especially ones with a super-effective STAB such as Speed Boost Sharpedo, Flygon, Tentacruel, Garchomp, Archeops, Floatzel, Starmie, Dugtrio, and Aerodactyl.
-Zen Mode
Getting the KO from above 50% is key (unless you pack Brine, of course). Even then, it has some of the same problems in Zen Mode that Snorlax does normally (Leech Seed, Toxic Poison instead of Burns, etc.). Rock Blast will bust through Sub-Zen and deal damage (in one use if boosted properly), so Cinccino can be a pain, Cloyster can be lethal, and Garbodor can wreak some havoc, all with higher Speed than Zen Darmanitan.

[JJtheporcupine]

Diemanitan (could use a better name)
Ability: Sheer force
Nature: Adamant/Impish
Item(if lo theory works) Life orb/white herb
Moves:
Flare Blitz
Hammer Arm
Fame charge
Earthquake/Rock slide

Flame charge recovers lost speed from hammer arm (does that work?) and it gets all the boost ect. from life orb+sheer force.

Just a question but would swagger still raise attack with sheer force?