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Thread: First 5th Gen Team (Make It Rain)

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    Default First 5th Gen Team (Make It Rain)

    Well, I'm not too good with Competitive Pokemon, but this Time I felt like making something really good. What was weird was the criteria I used for making this Team: Each Pokemon had to give out a different type of Effort Point, which somehow turned into an amazing Team Theory. Well here it is:

    Brief Overview:

    In depth:

    Forretress @ Mental Herb
    Sturdy/Relaxed (252 HP, 176 DEF, 80 Sp. DEF)
    Spikes
    Rapid Spin
    Volt Switch
    Stealth Rock

    Forretress is my starter, which I’ve debated switching with Politoed (good idea, bad idea, thoughts?). Forretress does what it does best: Come in, lay down Spikes/Stealth Rock, and gets the hell out of there until I need to come in to spin away the opponents Spikes. Forretress has been outclassed by Ferrothorn, but thorn isn’t much of a spinner, and by running Ferrothorn I might as well give a huge sign to Fighting types to come in and ruin my day. Also, Ferrothorn doesn’t have the key move that Forretress has; Volt Switch is a key move for dealing with opposing Ferrothorn, as if it's staying in I can switch out to Magnezone who can then attack back with Hidden Power Fire. The real question here is why I use Stealth Rock over Toxic Spikes; well the main reason is that I like StatusToed a lot, and if the opponent is getting poisoned before I can Burn/Sleep them, well then that ruins the fun. It is a good option to consider though…


    Haxorus @ Lum Berry
    Mold Breaker/Adamant (252 ATK, 252 Speed, 6 HP)
    Dragon Claw/Outrage
    Earthquake
    Dragon Dance
    Taunt

    Haxorus is a wrecking Machine, and the Dragon Dance set clearly proves that. Come in on a move that isn’t very effective/via Volt Switch, get a Dragon Dance in (2 if I’m lucky), and then attack like a bat out of hell. I like the reliability of Dragon Claw, but Outrage is much more powerful. Also, combined with Earthquake makes for a demolition crew only truly resisted by Skarmory. Taunt is employed over Dragon Tail, simply because negative Priority and Haxorus is a combo for disaster. Simple, yet effective.


    Magnezone @ Leftovers
    Magnet Pull/Timid (152 HP, 252 Sp. ATK, 106 Speed)
    Substitute
    Thunder
    HP Fire
    Thunder Wave/Magnet Rise

    Magnezone was an interesting choice; I had heard that it paired very well to take down Haxorus’ counters, and it is a fair choice to use in order to get rid of Skarmory/other Steels. My main beef with Pokemon like Magnezone though is that I HATE (like with a burning passion) Hidden Power. Breeding in order to get the specific one is just one of the banes of my existence, yet a Hidden Power Fire is almost mandatory in order to have Magnezone fully counter Pokemon like Ferrothorn or Scizor. It’s also a smart move in order to take on Steel/Grounds like Excadrill; who will have to Stone Edge/something Magnezone resists while it sets up a Sub, and then can Fire off a HP Fire no problem (Or just go for the Hidden Power first). Thunder’s the choice over Thunderbolt due to the Rain-based Nature of the team, and can give Magnezone even more power to attack Pokemon like Skarmory. I go with Thunder Wave to spread some Paralysis support for Pokemon like Lickilicky and Politoed to come in and outspeed opponents they normally would have no business going up against, although Magnet Rise could have potential for those expecting to get the EQ in and wreck Magnezone's day.


    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Natural Cure/Timid (252 Sp. ATK, 252 Speed, 6 HP)
    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Thunder
    Recover

    Starmie hasn’t changed much over the generations. Like, odds are people used a set similar to this back in Red/Blue days, with the possible change of Blizzard. Heck, I could use Blizzard here in case of Hailers, but then I would be cursed with 2 unreliable moves in no weather (although that shouldn’t be the case when Starmie is out). Pretty much once Rain is in play, Starmie can Surf people into oblivion, use Thunder on opposing Bulky Waters with its fancy 100% Accuracy, and can Ice Beam supposed Grass-counters to a cold finish. Recover is for Natural Recovery from Damage/Life Orb recoil, and with Natural Cure it shouldn’t have to worry about being Paralyzed/put to Sleep. Another simple Sweeper which continues to do its role admirably.


    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Drizzle/Calm (252 HP, 252 Sp. DEF, 6 Sp. ATK)
    Scald
    Ice Beam
    Toxic
    Perish Song

    Politoed. It has been one of my favorite Pokemon since the days of Gold and Silver, and now with a brand-spanking new Drizzle ability it can effectively become a monster. Or can be yelled at for becoming too broken by those whining about him and Ninetales, but they can pretty much suck it. I decided to give Politoed a more bulky approach, allowing him to spread Status and phaze amazingly, allowing the damage Forretress set down to rack up over time. Scald gets powered up in the Rain, and the Burn effect greatly benefits Politoed as its physical defense leaves something to be desired. Hypnosis is always good for zonking out an opponent, although that could be replaced with Toxic to deal with other Bulky Waters. Perish Song gets rid of Counters easily, and Ice Beam is good against Grass Pokemon that might want to ruin Politoed’s day. I’ve considered using him as a Lead, but it might be good to save the Rain for when the opponent no longer has the ability to manipulate the weather. Speaking of which….


    Lickilicky @ Life Orb
    Cloud Nine/Brave (116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 SpA)
    Return
    Power Whip
    Earthquake
    Fire Blast

    I don’t know why this hasn’t been mentioned, but Lickilicky is solid gold. Like, there’s some potential with Lickilicky out there, and it’s really being overlooked because people like to complain about the weather. How about this: Ferrothorn will love taking advantage of the rain, but Lickilicky can come in, Fire Blast it with no deterrence, and swap out leaving the opponent without a Rain check. Or it can come in on Ninetales, and Earthquake it (or Tyranitar for that matter), leaving the opponent with no more Weather control as Politoed can come back in and make it rain all over again. The major issue here is speed, as I have no idea how Lickilicky can take a hit or two before being able to hit back. I don’t know, what would be a good EV spread to make Lickilicky most effective against Weather Pokemon?

    One final Look:
    Last edited by Aquadon; 9th May 2011 at 7:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Requiem
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    Hi again Aquadon Ok so here I go.

    I love Haxorus and he is a melee boss BUT if you're expecting to go against Salamence, Flygon, Garchomp, he is slower than all three and their dragon moves will one shot him. If not though you're good unless you fight a Weavile or Froslass. Or other quick dragon or ice pokemon. 97 base speed is good, but not always providing enough to get the one shot before they can attack. The other dragons can use dragon dance too meaning dragon dance to be faster may not always be the perfect solution. Dropping licki btw would allow the life orb to go to him too. Which could be better for him. Then pull in maybe a water tank such as ludicolo or the new one tentacruel who has more base speed and base special defense than ludicolo and the same rain dish ability and access to giga drain and black sludge. But no leech seed on this one and less attacking power on both fronts. He also has toxic spikes and venoshock which goes well with a perish song on poli to cause switches and get more poisons and stealth rock damages.

    Put some HP on Lickilicky if you're worried about taking hits. But realize if he's a tank buster such as against Ferrothorn, tanks are pretty slow sometimes too. So maybe you can outspeed them. Prob with this guy is though if poli is dead somehow when u send him out you're rain is gone since nobody else has rain dance. On my team I dropped him for the same exact reason haha. Not enough rain dancers so i used someone else instead but it's ur call. Consider pokemon with times 4 damage from fire still take times 2 in the rain which isn't bad.
    Last edited by Drizzler; 31st March 2011 at 5:12 AM.
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    Keep Haxor. After a single DD, you'll outspeed every unscarfed mon outside of Speed Deoxys, outspeeding and OHKOing all dragons. Try to get up to 2 DDS as it will make you less susceptible to Scarfs.

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    Actually though, after 1 Dragon Dance, you are still outsped by the base 100+ Scarfers, like Scarf Garchomp, Scarf Starmie and such, also outsped by Scarf Hydreigon (1 point higher lol).
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    All right, I guess I should explain Haxorus in a little more detail. He is after all one of the smallest blurbs on the set:

    I wasn't initially a fan of Haxorus, as with all of the Dragon Pokemon in Gen V. Even now, I'm somewhat skeptical of him. But i was given a good Axew, and I figured why not, I'll try EV Training him. Turned into a bit of a beast. Moreover, he has a certain niche that most other Dragons (or the majority of other Pokemon in general) can't really claim; the ability to come in, and blast Pokemon with Gengar, Rotom and Bronzong with Earthquake, which they normally would just float over. Sure, I might need to set up a Dragon Dance or two in case of other Dragons (especially Scarfers), but after 1 Dragon Dance he'll outspeed any Dragon without a Scarf and hit with a 648 ATK Stat. After 2 Dances (which might take a miracle, but isn't impossible), he'll outspeed Scarfed Dragons, AND hit with a 864 ATK Stat. It's going to take a lot to resist that and return with a powerful move able to take down Haxorus. Moreover; I can work with Forretress and Magnezone to resist a couple of Dragon moves (especially Magnezone who can set up a Sub, and I'm debating throw around paralysis making things MUCH Easier).

    Speaking of which; it has come to my attention that Lickilicky is a slow Pokemon (becuase it wasn't obvious in the first place). I'm thinking of throwing in some Paralysis support on this Team; what Pokemon would be the best suited for that, and what move should I replace with a Paralysis Move?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Requiem
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    I'm not quite sure if bumping is allowed for CRMT, but given that I turn 21 today, and I would rather bump this than create an entirely new thread, I decided to post here again.

    What would be the best way to add Paralysis support to this team without hindering its power?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Requiem
    Cross Country ftw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquadon View Post
    What would be the best way to add Paralysis support to this team without hindering its power?
    use thunder wave over flash cannon
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    Updated with some choices I made on moves. Please, I'm looking for any and all input on how to make this team better!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Requiem
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    good party only thing I would change is teaching Haxorus Brick Break over Dragon Tail and giving him Leftovers. Only thing is that your party(other than starmie) would get killed by a fighting type

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    I was tempted by using Brick Break, but what would you need it for other than Steel types who would normally be wrecked by Earthquake? The only thing I can see it hitting neutrally is Skarmory, and it would be much easier to get Skarmory out of there rather than waste time attacking it.
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    Great looking team, Nothing really I can add since everyone else seems to have stolen all my ideas for it lol!

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    An option on Haxorus is to run Night Slash on it instead of Dragon Tail. Allows it to kill the Psychics or ghosts out there (better than X scissor because you dont really need another pokemon good agaisnt Grass). But then you also wont be able to take full advantage of entry hazard damage.

    If you want to really take advantage of Perish Song you should use something with Mean look to keep it in, but that would kinda take back from the idea of lots of residual damage form entry hazards.

    I like how Lillicky is on your team to help deal with the rising Weather teams, thats a good idea.

    On Haxorus im not sure if those are Speed EV's or specal defence, but if they arent speed i would put max SPeed so that after a Dragon Dance you can atleast outspeed stuff unscarfed.

    If Spd IS speed then i would give Magnezone those 106 EV's in it to either HP, Defense or Specail Defense because at 60 speed you really wont be outspeeding much, and with the added Bulk it wont matter as much.
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    HI I know you want to keep Haxorous because it`s easy but trust me all the other dragons are way better they can out speeed you and still have great offensive stauts
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    HI I know you want to keep Haxorous because it`s easy but trust me all the other dragons are way better they can out speeed you and still have great offensive stauts
    Not if he DD's first...he wouldn't send out a haxorus against a dragon he knows will outspeed it. :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFrontierChampion View Post
    Not if he DD's first...he wouldn't send out a haxorus against a dragon he knows will outspeed it. :P
    This. Also, Haxorus has a major niche most other Dragons would kill for; the ability Mold Breaker, which makes a Floating Pokemon like Gengar, Rotom, and Bronzong in KO range by a kickass Earthquake. Also, as stated, I switch in on something that's intimidated by Haxorus, DD while they're switching out to their "Superior" Dragon, and then outspeed them and wreck with a +1 boost. It's generally a good choice.
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    take away the foretress

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    Quote Originally Posted by arceusfan1 View Post
    take away the foretress
    Is there anything you'd recommend over Forretress? I would only use Ferrothorn if I wanted to abuse Thunder Wave, and even then I'd be lacking a serious Spinner.
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    steelix can be good with the rockhead&double edge combination

    steelix

    ice fang/ fire fang/ thunder fang
    iron tail
    double edge
    crunch/ autotomize

    or if you could teach flare blitz that would be good

    and gyro ball is not so bad either but then you shouldnt have autotomize

    i know it isnt a spinner but you can consider it

    skarmory arent so bad for spikes either

    last rate my team!
    Last edited by arceusfan1; 12th April 2011 at 7:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arceusfan1 View Post
    steelix can be good with the rockhead&double edge combination
    While I was recently tempted by my pull of Shiny Steelix to use him, unfortunately he and Forretress are 2 very different Pokemon. While Forretress isn't exactly the offensive force, he's not really intended to be. He's there to start the game with some Spikes/Stealth Rock, and then wait in the wings to be used as a Rapid Spinner. Also, Forretress' Scouting is almost crucial, as I can use Volt Switch to see if they decide to switch in a Weather-maker/Ferrothorn, and respond with Politoed/Magnezone accordingly.

    Also, I would love to rate your team; can you send me a link?
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    http://serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=507570
    and have you tried skarmory with whirlwind/spike combo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquadon View Post
    This. Also, Haxorus has a major niche most other Dragons would kill for; the ability Mold Breaker, which makes a Floating Pokemon like Gengar, Rotom, and Bronzong in KO range by a kickass Earthquake. Also, as stated, I switch in on something that's intimidated by Haxorus, DD while they're switching out to their "Superior" Dragon, and then outspeed them and wreck with a +1 boost. It's generally a good choice.
    I switch in to my "superior" weavile, sd up when you switch out and wreck your team
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    also another thing i would suggest is to do is put a mental herb onto your forry to guarantee that you get a sr up, because sereously, what is shed shell gonna do to protect you (except for magne with few people carry)
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    and i doubt that a +1 dragon claw (excluding outrage here because you could just switch into a steel type) has the capabilities to ohko a lot in the gen 5, eg. gliscor, crustle, quag, etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbc123 View Post
    I switch in to my "superior" weavile, sd up when you switch out and wreck your team
    Or Alternatively, aformentioned Dragon Dance gives me a 421 Speed Stat (factoring my IVs), which outspeeds a Jolly Weavile's 383 Stat for a hit from a 648 ATK Stat (which is almost as powerful as most Choice Banded Pokemon). But we're not here to talk about hypotheticals.

    Listen, I understand that the Haxorus debate can go on forever; I'm giving it a shot right now and seeing how it works. Is there any more constructive criticism on how my Team could be improved? I'm really curious on how Lickilicky could be improved as an anti-metagame cleanup.


    Quote Originally Posted by jbc123 View Post
    also another thing i would suggest is to do is put a mental herb onto your forry to guarantee that you get a sr up, because sereously, what is shed shell gonna do to protect you (except for magne with few people carry)
    Actually that might be a good idea. I'll look into Mental Herb.
    Last edited by Aquadon; 13th April 2011 at 9:54 PM.
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    Though I am very new to this and no real expert, I have a rain team of my own and will give it a shot.

    I have a couple problems with your Magnezone set. For one thing, as a rain team, I truly believe carrying any sort of fire move is a complete waste. With the 50% decrease in rain, the move is only 2 times effectiveness against even the Ferrothorns and Forretresses you are trying to counter. Besides, I think any poke with a stat-boosting move is an effective enough counter to those two. They can lay spikes all over the field if they want, but it's not going to matter if in doing so they allow a Pokemon like Haxorus to stat-boost enough to sweep them. You are much better off with HP Ice, which is an almost perfect complement to Thunder. I also don't like Thunder Wave there. I love abusing statuses, but like 80% of the time it is better to use Thunder, with its STAB 120 power (not to mention Mags amazing SpA) combined with the 30% chance of paralysis. You rarely see a set with Discharge and Thunder Wave, as the success of one takes out some of the appeal of the other. The same ought to be true of Thunder and Thunder Wave. The only thing that I believe would truly justify it is if you had a truly devastating, yet slow sweeper on your team, which I do not believe you currently have.

    I am also not a huge fan of Lickylicky. It feels too much like you have to normally play one-man-down just so you can counter other weather teams slightly more effectively. I would fill his position in the party with someone who can further abuse the power of rain. Perhaps someone with Hurricane or Hydration could be used. Maybe you could look into Swanna, who can abuse Hydration+Rest, take statuses, and use STAB Hurricane all at once. I've never really tried LickyLicky out though, so if you really find him effective I'm no one to tell you otherwise. Even if you do keep him, I would urge you to get rid of Fire Blast, which is simply useless in the rain you try to bring in with Poli.

    *Don't mind the sentence in red. I just was told that his item negates the negative effect on fire. Excuse my ignorance.
    Last edited by Pokedudeguy; 14th April 2011 at 3:32 AM.

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