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Thread: RNGing in Black and White

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    Default RNGing in Black and White - RNG FAQ included

    So as you may already know, it's quite possible, and perhaps even easier to RNG in Gen V. It only needs your DS' MAC address and no longer requires your secret ID (previously only legally determinable by catching a wild, non-chained shiny pokemon, figuring out its IVs and using some basic math) and standard non-C-gear RNGing only uses timing precise to the second.

    With this in mind, RNGed pokemon might make an even bigger appearance in this generation than the last. What's your opinion on this? Does it devalue the worth of non-RNGed pokemon? Is it perfectly legit? a bad exploit? etcetera.

    edit: I just added this FAQ, because people seem to be kinda confused by the whole dealio. Keep in mind that I'm not a programmer or an expert (or even any good!) at RNGing, so if there are any errors/things missing please point them out and I'll fix them ASAP.

    FAQ

    Q: What does RNG mean?
    A: RNG stands for Random Number Generator. A random number generator (RNG) is something used to create "random" numbers to simulate chance and luck. A die or a deck of cards are both technically RNGs, and so is the bit of programming that determines the pokémon you encounter in-game. An extremely simplified way of thinking of it would be to imagine that every every time you encounter a new pokémon it's like you're rolling a die with millions of sides - each side representing all of the combined attributes (stats, shininess, gender, nature, ability, etcetera) that make up a single pokémon.

    Q: Yeah, but what does this have to do with "RNGing" a pokemon?
    A: No RNG is perfect, and the numbers generated are often pseudorandom instead of truly "random". Computers often use variables like the time/date, frame, or even fan noise to generate numbers. What this means is that if you know how an RNG works, then you can often figure out a way to make it favour a specific outcome in the same way that you can stack a deck of cards in your favour or drop a die so that it will always land on 6. To keep the analogy going, RNGing means that you can roll the million-sided pokémon die and throw the die in a way that lets you consistently get the side that has the shiny pokémon with perfect stats.

    Q: Why do people RNG?
    A: RNGing can make it much easier and faster to get a specific pokémon. Instead of hatching thousands of eggs to get a single shiny pokémon with a mostly random nature and IVs, someone who manipulates the RNG can hatch a shiny pokémon, or one with perfect IVs in just a few tries.

    Q: Do you need to use a cheating device to RNG?
    A: Yes and no. The purpose of RNGing is to allow a player to obtain a flawless, shiny, or otherwise, very specific pokémon without having a cheating device interact directly with their game. Depending on the method, using something like Action Replay while RNGing can even completely throw off the process and make you unable to get the result you want.

    During RNGing, the calculations used to find the pokémon you want and determine how to get it on a specific game are very complicated and generally requires users to download programs to their computers that are specially designed to calculate these values. However, these programs will never interact with your game. Whether or not this is considered a cheating device is a controversial issue, but RNGing can technically be done without using any sort of program other than your game itself. Keep in mind that if you're planning on doing all the calculations yourself and without a program, you might want a degree in math first.

    In Gen IV, calibrating was easier (in D/P/Pt) because of the pokétch. It was done via the coinflip and happiness checker applications. In Gen V there is no pokétch, so calibrating must be done by catching pokémon and checking their IVs.

    Q: So how do I RNG?
    A: An in-depth guide would be way more than you could fit in a single question, but there is a step-by-step process here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83057 . It can be pretty confusing and difficult at first, so it's recommended you start off with the standard non-C-gear method.

    Q: What is a seed in the context of RNGing?
    A: Before the game's RNG generates a random number, you must first provide it with another number so to use to calculate the final "random" number. This first number is called the "seed". The RNG in Black and White is very predictable, and will always spit out the same results when provided with the same seed.

    In Gen V the seed is determined by things like the exact time you start up the game, whether or not you start up the C-gear, and also the delay between starting the game and starting your C-gear. By doing all these things at an exact time and following very specific instructions (walking a certain number of steps with a defined number of pokémon in your party, using chatot's chatter, etcetera), you can manipulate the outcome of the game's "dice rolls" and get almost any custom pokémon that you want.

    Q: Almost? Which pokémon can't I get then?
    A: Although you can have any combination of natures and IVs in this generation, certain pokémon are unable to be generated shiny in your game, even if you hit the seed and frame that would ensure a shiny pokémon. When encountered, these pokémon have will have "checks" on them that will make sure that they will never appear as shiny. The zekrom and reshiram encountered at the end of the game's storyline and at Dragonspiral Tower cannot be encountered as shiny, and neither can Liberty Garden victini. Pokémon from wondercard gifts can also never be shiny, unless the promotion was specifically for a shiny version of that pokémon, in which case you will not be able to get a regular version of that pokémon instead. Finally, pokémon straight from the Dream World in the Entralink Forest are unobtainable as shinies either.
    Last edited by zerky; 16th May 2011 at 3:44 AM.
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  2. #2
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    As more and more people strive to get perfect pokemon to keep up with each other, RNGing will become more popular.
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    I'm sorry, what does RNG mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_green_thunder View Post
    I'm sorry, what does RNG mean?
    same here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_green_thunder View Post
    I'm sorry, what does RNG mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitelightning View Post
    same here.
    it mean Random Number Generator. I don't know a whole lot about it myself
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_green_thunder View Post
    I'm sorry, what does RNG mean?
    RNGing is knowing how the game calculates "random" values, and how to manipulate it. It's popular competitively, as it allows you to have perfect pokemon with out having to resort to hacking or using a battle simulator.
    Last edited by Will-powered Spriter; 29th April 2011 at 5:59 PM.
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  7. #7

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    Yes, with it's ease of use, it will continue to become more prominent this generation. It's so much more rewarding just finding a spread in a minute orso and going out to capture that flawless Pokemon with no hassle whatsoever.

    RNG shall forever be a perfectly legitimate practice and the only players who disagree with it are likely those who slave for months at a time hatching thousands of eggs (I'm not making this up, I've known people who have done this) to get one shiny which likely has cruddy IVs and nature.

    I'm using no external devices or glitches to alter the Pokemon in any shape of form. The end.

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    I tried to RNG yesterday on my pokemon black, but I was just lost. Got my mac address but the guide just wasn't clear enough on what I should be doing!

    I have no problem with people who RNG, hell it's not the easiest thing to learn initially so you earn the right to use it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will-powered Spriter View Post
    RNGing is knowing how the game calculates "random" values, and how to manipulate it. It's popular competitively, as it allows you to have perfect pokemon with out having to resort to hacking or using a battle simulator.
    Oh I see. When I read this I was confused as to how you can "random number generator", but now I see what it means. Thanks

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    I didn't know RNGing is much easier in Gen V, I must read up on it. I have no problems with RNGing, as it's perfectly legit, as long as no cheating devices are used (only a problem in Gen IV to find your SID, it seems). Although I don't like to use it to obtain shinies, as I feel it removes all aspect of a challenge.
    Last edited by The Eleventh; 23rd May 2011 at 3:46 PM.

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    I'd RNG on Pokemon Black, but I only have a 3Ds, so I'll have to wait until they figure out how to get it to work with a 3Ds. *Sadface*

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    I've always wanted to try this, but I can't find a single tutorial for Gen V that makes sense. It's all jargon and charts. Is there not a beginners guide for Gen V anywhere?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will-powered Spriter View Post
    I've always wanted to try this, but I can't find a single tutorial for Gen V that makes sense. It's all jargon and charts. Is there not a beginners guide for Gen V anywhere?
    Here is the Smogon Page on it:

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83057
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    Mebby I should add a little FAQ up on the first post so people don't keep getting confused about it. I'll do that right now.
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    Alright, so we got the FAQ, but how do we do it? Might you have the program that helps to RNG?

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    so.... how do you influence the RNG? im only getting basic info here.

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    I figured that this thread could use an example of how easy and fast RNG can be in 5th gen after you've done all of the calculations. So here's a video of me finding a shiny Timid Cobalion with 31/x/27/31/25/31 in under 3 minutes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e3GCg15DQQ
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    how do we rng.im exited.do u have to have anything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucarioisawesome View Post
    how do we rng.im exited.do u have to have anything?
    All the info you need can be found here.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83057
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    Never have RNGed, never will.

    It just isn't gratifying to me get a shiny or Pokemon with good IVs when I know I'm going to get it.

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    I disagree that RNG has become easier gen V. If anything, it has become significantly more difficult. The Pokegear was a major loss and now we have to resort to walking in the grass and Chatots.

    Catching perfect Shiny Pokemon may become easier but hatching a perfect shiny pokemon will become more difficult. I will really miss hatching shiny eggs in Gen IV because the process was so easy and you were guaranteed a shiny egg. -.-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakurai View Post
    Never have RNGed, never will.

    It just isn't gratifying to me get a shiny or Pokemon with good IVs when I know I'm going to get it.
    You don't know you're going to get a Shiny Pokemon. RNG Manipulation just means that instead of soft-resetting several thousand times, you soft reset 50 times instead. The entire process is still fatiguing and a nightmare.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentimentGX4 View Post
    You don't know you're going to get a Shiny Pokemon. RNG Manipulation just means that instead of soft-resetting several thousand times, you soft reset 50 times instead. The entire process is still fatiguing and a nightmare.
    While I somewhat agree with that, depending on how much you've practiced RNG you can do it with very few attempts. Like how in HG/SS I got a shiny Timid Zapdos with HP Ice and a few 31's on my first SR. And a shiny Bold Suicune with 4 31's on my 7th SR. And in 5th gen it's even easier. In 5th gen it hasn't taken me more than 3 tries to get each one that I've tried for. So with practice you can end up doing it with hardly any tries at all.
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    tried it and it was to hard and confusing
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentimentGX4 View Post
    I disagree that RNG has become easier gen V. If anything, it has become significantly more difficult. The Pokegear was a major loss and now we have to resort to walking in the grass and Chatots.
    I guess it varies from person to person. Personally I would have never been able to properly RNG in a Gen IV game because my luck finding RE shinies is absolutely nonexistent. I've never even seen a RE shiny in an official game, let alone caught one, so I would have had to use other dubious methods to obtain my SID, which completely defeats the purpose of RNGing in the first place.

    Until now it's just been a really cool, if impractical, option.
    Last edited by zerky; 30th April 2011 at 10:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerky View Post
    I guess it varies from person to person. Personally I would have never been able to properly RNG in a Gen IV game because my luck finding RE shinies is absolutely nonexistent. I never even seen a RE shiny in an official game, let alone caught one, so I would have had to use other dubious methods to obtain my SID, which completely defeats the purpose of RNGing in the first place.

    Until now it's just been a really cool, if impractical, option.
    Okay, I should phrase it this way. It gets easier to setup but the process of actually RNG'ing gets more difficult (at least to me). You lose a lot of valuable tools from last gen. -.-
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