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Thread: NFL/NCAAF Thread

  1. #1701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazekage View Post
    In 2005 the worst teams were the Saints, and the Texans.
    The Saints had a bad QB. I wonder why they got better in 2006, oh right, Drew Brees went to New Orleans in 2006. Also, good job bringing up an expansion team, noting that expansion teams almost never do well immediately after creation, that was created three years prior. Look who they have now, Schaub in a division without Manning. Look at that.

    The best teams were the Colts and the Seahawks.
    The Colts lost Peyton Manning and were a terrible team without him. The Colts would still be one of the best teams if he was healthy this year. The Seahawks had Hasselback when he had one of his best, if not his best, year ever.

    Yeah, the NFL lives on Parity.
    Hmm, let's look at what makes made all of those above teams good and bad. A lack of a quarterback. How many teams lack a reliable starting quarterback these days? Most teams. That breaks the parity rule automatically since without a good QB, they're automatically unequal in a passing league. Thanks for playing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBluePorygon View Post
    Lol another kid helping me prove my point. so yeah :P
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    The one thing I'd love to know is, how do so many people enjoy college football?

    When compared to the NFL, sure, the volume is much greater, but I imagine it's somewhat disheartening to have players coming and going, moreso than the NFL, seeing as they can only play a maximum of 4 years (not sure if grad students are allowed to play, correct me if I'm wrong).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca R. View Post
    The Saints had a bad QB. I wonder why they got better in 2006, oh right, Drew Brees went to New Orleans in 2006. Also, good job bringing up an expansion team, noting that expansion teams almost never do well immediately after creation, that was created three years prior. Look who they have now, Schaub in a division without Manning. Look at that.



    The Colts lost Peyton Manning and were a terrible team without him. The Colts would still be one of the best teams if he was healthy this year. The Seahawks had Hasselback when he had one of his best, if not his best, year ever.



    Hmm, let's look at what makes made all of those above teams good and bad. A lack of a quarterback. How many teams lack a reliable starting quarterback these days? Most teams. That breaks the parity rule automatically since without a good QB, they're automatically unequal in a passing league. Thanks for playing.



    Because people agree with you, you believe you are correct? Maybe you should help them out.
    2005, the Packers had Brett Favre and went 4-12. This was BEFORE his remarkable 2007 and 2009 seasons, so don't give me the whole "He's old and sucks lololol".

    2008 they had Aaron Rodgers and went 6-10.

    In 2002 the Raiders went from having a league best record in week 5, to having the 15th best record in week 14. In the same season.

    2006-7 Bears went from superbowl to missing the playoffs. Their QB situation actually improved in that time.

    This season once bottom feeders like the Lions, 49ers, and Broncos are all top 10 teams. All of them lack a top 10 QB.

    In Baseball you can bet that the Yankees will do well. Basketball you can do the same with the Lakers. the NFL doesn't have a team that's continually at the top, no team can afford players more than another team. The Jaguars have the same access to top free agents as the Cowboys, or Patriots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca R. View Post
    The Colts lost Peyton Manning and were a terrible team without him. The Colts would still be one of the best teams if he was healthy this year.
    I can't really bring myself to believe that. It's hard to believe the Colts haven't won a game yet, all because they lost their quarterback. Something else must have happened too...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazekage View Post
    In Baseball you can bet that the Yankees will do well. Basketball you can do the same with the Lakers. the NFL doesn't have a team that's continually at the top, no team can afford players more than another team. The Jaguars have the same access to top free agents as the Cowboys, or Patriots.
    I agree with this 100%.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sceptile33 View Post
    I can't really bring myself to believe that. It's hard to believe the Colts haven't won a game yet, all because they lost their quarterback. Something else must have happened too..
    Everyone else got better.

    At least the Panthers anyway, Cam Newton lit a fire under their asses. Granted, they aren't making the playoffs this season, but IIRC correctly, he has 4-6 games with +300 passing yards, and tied with Big Ben for most rushing TDs in a rookie season with 5 games left

    It sucks people are obsessed with "Tebow Time", Cam Newton is breaking records for f*ck sake.
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    I think it's that win-loss record that gives Tebow the edge over Newton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sceptile33 View Post
    I can't really bring myself to believe that. It's hard to believe the Colts haven't won a game yet, all because they lost their quarterback. Something else must have happened too...
    The Colts have been on a slippery slope for a long time. Their defense has been suspect for a few years. Peyton Manning helped to cover that because they could strike first and often on offense. Unlike now, their defense didn't have the pressure of having to keep the game close while losing. And of course they don't have the offensive corps they used too, just like St. Louis' "greatest show on turf" for those of y'all that remember....

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    Quote Originally Posted by sceptile33 View Post
    I think it's that win-loss record that gives Tebow the edge over Newton.
    Unfortunately.

    Unlike everyone else, I don't root for Tebow, I root for Newton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxyman1167 View Post
    Unfortunately.

    Unlike everyone else, I don't root for Tebow, I root for Newton.
    Nothing unfortunate about it. Win/loss is all that matters. Tebow has helped the Broncos from 1-4 to 7-5 and first place. He also doesn't have near the weapons Newton has at Carolina. Who cares about pretty stats when the team has a losing record. BTW they call it "Tebow time" for a reason. He comes through when it matters most.

    I will always root for Tebow over Newton for 2 reasons.

    1. Newton is arrogant. Never an admirable trait when a rookie sees himself as an "icon" before he is even drafted. I also am fed up with showboating in the NFL after TDs

    2. Kinda hard to forget him "not knowing" about his dad accepting money for him. Mark my words, that investigation is not over. The NCAA has a nasty habit of pulling things like this up with sudden evidence a couple of years down the road (see reggie bush) Newton has a big skeleton in the closet waiting to be uncovered.
    Last edited by TheWatersGreatGuardian; 7th December 2011 at 5:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    I will always root for Tebow over Newton for 2 reasons.

    1. Newton is arrogant.
    Never an admirable trait when a rookie sees himself as an "icon" before he is even drafted. I also am fed up with showboating in the NFL after TDs
    Dude, Tebow's just as arrogant as Newton. And there's a whole meme based on his showboating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    Dude, Tebow's just as arrogant as Newton. And there's a whole meme based on his showboating.
    There is a difference between thanking God after making a big play, and doing some stupid dance after a big play. Tebow also doesn't really talk himself up to the media. Everything is "team," "excited to be a part of something special," and "glory to God." That kind of "arrogance" I am fine with. It is not self centered.

    However, I gained an instant dislike for Newton when he called himself and icon.

    It also amuses me greatly watching all the "experts" on ESPN rage and scratch their heads at Tebow's success. Everyone expects Newton to make it in the NFL. OTOH no one gave Tebow much of a shot at even winning consistently.
    Last edited by TheWatersGreatGuardian; 7th December 2011 at 5:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    Nothing unfortunate about it. Win/loss is all that matters. Tebow has helped the Broncos from 1-4 to 7-5 and first place. He also doesn't have near the weapons Newton has at Carolina. Who cares about pretty stats when the team has a losing record. BTW they call it "Tebow time" for a reason. He comes through when it matters most.
    Everything else you said is a valid argument, but this, not so much.

    The Broncos squeaked by the Jets :'(, Raiders, Dolphins, Chiefs, and Vikings. Tebow relies too much on some lucky 4th quarter comeback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxyman1167 View Post
    Everything else you said is a valid argument, but this, not so much.

    The Broncos squeaked by the Jets :'(, Raiders, Dolphins, Chiefs, and Vikings. Tebow relies too much on some lucky 4th quarter comeback.
    That certainly wasn't the case this past week. Denver's defense had a bad day and Tebow won a shootout. he was on fire for most of the second half. I get that it was a bad vikings team, but Tebow made some amazing throws/scramble plays. That was the first game I have seen him truly look like a good NFL QB.

    and since he seems to suddenly become a star in crunch time, I would not call that luck. I call that being a winner. Another thing, he hardly ever turns the ball over, something that cam does too much. I am not saying that Tebow is a better QB. I am saying he is a better leader than Cam. It was very curious how the entire denver team seemed to step up their play when Tebow took over.

    That said, I think it is too early to judge either one on future success.
    Last edited by TheWatersGreatGuardian; 7th December 2011 at 5:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    There is a difference between thanking God after making a big play, and doing some stupid dance after a big play. Tebow also doesn't really talk himself up to the media. Everything is "team," "excited to be a part of something special," and "glory to God." That kind of "arrogance" I am fine with. It is not self centered.

    However, I gained an instant dislike for Newton when he called himself and icon.

    It also amuses me greatly watching all the "experts" on ESPN rage and scratch their heads at Tebow's success. Everyone expects Newton to make it in the NFL. OTOH no one gave Tebow much of a shot at even winning consistently.
    You're clearly biased. And Tebow's a major trash talker and a cryer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    You're clearly biased. And Tebow's a major trash talker and a cryer.
    Yes I am, I'll admit it. Him being a christian and a former gator does have bearing on my argument.

    Trash talker? Usually he is the one making the trash talkers look foolish on the field. Revis of the jets trash talked him in the week leading up to the game. Revis then had the chance to make a big tackle on Tebow near the end of the game. It looked like Revis avoided being hit by Tebow. Go back to the 2008 championship. an OU defender did some major trash talk leading up to the game. Tebow then did the chomp at him after beating him on a big play, that there was one of the only instances of true arrogance I have seen him display.

    However, I don't think I have ever heard him instigate the trash talk

    As for the cryer comment. Can you honestly blame him? He is so invested in his team, and the first time he did it, it was after he let them down and cost them an undefeated season. The second time was in his last SEC game as a gator with a chance to go to the BCS game on the line. He was a college kid at the time, emotions will get the best of you in situations like that, its part of being human.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    There is a difference between thanking God after making a big play, and doing some stupid dance after a big play. Tebow also doesn't really talk himself up to the media. Everything is "team," "excited to be a part of something special," and "glory to God." That kind of "arrogance" I am fine with. It is not self centered.

    However, I gained an instant dislike for Newton when he called himself and icon.

    It also amuses me greatly watching all the "experts" on ESPN rage and scratch their heads at Tebow's success. Everyone expects Newton to make it in the NFL. OTOH no one gave Tebow much of a shot at even winning consistently.
    I seriously don't get you, you think Tebow is the greatest quarterback in the league. You love to defend all the Florida players, yet you won't admit that Josh Freeman is having a down year.

    Why? Value stats, Newton's fantastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totodile is BEAST View Post
    I seriously don't get you, you think Tebow is the greatest quarterback in the league. You love to defend all the Florida players, yet you won't admit that Josh Freeman is having a down year.

    Why? Value stats, Newton's fantastic.
    I have never hinted that I thought Tebow is the greatest QB in the league. You are putting words in my mouth there. That belongs solely to Aaron Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, and the usual guys.
    I think he is still a work in progress, and I don't even think he is the best QB in his division. He has shown more improvement than people give him credit for though.

    On the former Gator players. Of course I do, when they deserve it. They came from my college team.

    I hardly talk about the bucs now. There is not much to talk about.

    Josh Freeman is AWFUL this year. He looks like a rookie in his first game
    Stats are for losers when there is not a winning record to back them up.
    Last edited by TheWatersGreatGuardian; 7th December 2011 at 6:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    I have never hinted that I thought Tebow is the greatest QB in the league. You are putting words in my mouth there. That belongs solely to Aaron Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, and the usual guys.
    I think he is still a work in progress, and I don't even think he is the best QB in his division. He has shown more improvement than people give him credit for though.

    On the former Gator players. Of course I do, when they deserve it. They came from my college team.

    I hardly talk about the bucs now. There is not much to talk about.

    Josh Freeman is AWFUL this year. He looks like a rookie in his first game
    Stats are for losers when there is not a winning record to back them up.
    I am?
    he was on fire for most of the second half
    but Tebow made some amazing throws/scramble play
    and since he seems to suddenly become a star in crunch time, I would not call that luck. I call that being a winner
    No evidence at all.

    How? He's on nearly every headline, "tebow leads broncos to game winning drive". He has so much credit, nobody doubts him now, buddy.

    Signing Albert Haynesworth? Having some 80 yard runs by Lagarrette Blount? Uh-uh.

    Yeah, he does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totodile is BEAST View Post
    I am?



    No evidence at all.

    How? He's on nearly every headline, "tebow leads broncos to game winning drive". He has so much credit, nobody doubts him now, buddy.

    Signing Albert Haynesworth? Having some 80 yard runs by Lagarrette Blount? Uh-uh.

    Yeah, he does.
    That was in response to how he played in one game, and the comment about being a winner in crunch time is true. Look up his stats for the 4th qtr. If the game has been close this year, he has found a way to win it. The one exception being when Orton was benched at the half of the first Chargers game Tebow started the second half and very nearly brought them back to win.

    I was in no way saying he is a great QB he hasn't even played a full season for one. So yes, you are either reading too far between the lines, or you are just looking to start something. If people on here are going to gush about Caaaaaammmm <_<, than I certainly have the right to talk about Tebow. If you don't like it, stay out of the thread or ignore it. Or bring something constructive to the argument.

    Nobody doubts him? Try Merril Hodge, Stephen A Smith, Kiper, and a still a bunch of other analysts. Sure he has turned many of his doubters such as dilfer, into supporters, but there are still plenty like Hodge.

    and bud, making fun of the Bucs this year is really no insult to me, I make fun of them myself. They need to be ridiculed.

    I really don't know whats gotten into you tonight. You and I usually get along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazekage View Post
    2005, the Packers had Brett Favre and went 4-12. This was BEFORE his remarkable 2007 and 2009 seasons, so don't give me the whole "He's old and sucks lololol".
    Yeah, Favre had one of his bad years that year. Once again, an example of a QB taking his team down because he had a bad year. Like I said before, teams need a good QB if they lack in other areas.

    2008 they had Aaron Rodgers and went 6-10.
    In his first year as a starter.

    In 2002 the Raiders went from having a league best record in week 5, to having the 15th best record in week 14. In the same season.
    All that says that they wren't for real. The Broncos started 6-0 or something a few years ago but we saw what they really were for the rest of the season and into this season as well. The 2011 Bills are another example of this.

    2006-7 Bears went from superbowl to missing the playoffs. Their QB situation actually improved in that time.
    Recently, many Super Bowl losers have done that. IDK why.

    This season once bottom feeders like the Lions,
    They improved all around. Their QB isn't getting injured, their defense has improved, and they have a good receiver. They improved as a team through the draft after being a bottom feeder for decades. Many foresaw that they would improve with players like Suh, Stafford, and that other guy Fairley.

    49ers,
    The 49ers have something to make up for Alex Smith not turning the ball over in the form of their defense and rushing. Most teams don't have great defense and great rushing.

    and Broncos are all top 10 teams. All of them lack a top 10 QB.
    The Broncos aren't a top 10 team. Please stop joking.

    Stafford is a top 10 QB. He's in the top 10 in passing yards, completions, completion percentage, and yards per game. Smith has one of the lowest amount of interceptions (tied with Rodgers) and top 10 completion percentage. The 49ers rushing attack is 7th overall and their defense ranks first in TO differential in the NFC. Plus they give up about 12-13 points per game. There's your explanation for the 49ers and why they're successful. They're essentially the Jets form two years ago. Look where the Jets are now. An average team.

    In Baseball you can bet that the Yankees will do well. Basketball you can do the same with the Lakers. the NFL doesn't have a team that's continually at the top, no team can afford players more than another team. The Jaguars have the same access to top free agents as the Cowboys, or Patriots.
    The Yankees don't always do well. Anyway, there's no salary cap and have they most money. In the NBA, one player can make a difference. That's what the draft is essentially: hoping you get the next Kobe or Lebron. In the NFL, there are teams that have been doing well for years and their draft is essentially hoping for the next Manning or Brady. It all goes back to QB's and without them teams will fail. Sure, there are exceptions like the 49ers but the teams with the established QB who stays good remain good for long periods of time. Also, the Cowboys will always have the edge over the Jaguars. Stop kidding yourself because of better location, better management, and more money available to them.

    If there's such parity in the league, tell me who has a truly legitimate shot at winning the Super Bowl right now since that's the goal of all teams in the league that aren't rebuilding. There aren't many: Packers, Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Saints, 49ers maybe, and maybe the Giants. That's it. The Texans and Bears lost their QB's. Sorry they're done.

    Quote Originally Posted by sceptile33 View Post
    I can't really bring myself to believe that. It's hard to believe the Colts haven't won a game yet, all because they lost their quarterback. Something else must have happened too...
    It doesn't matter if you can't believe it or not. That's how it is. Manning got injured, the team went down. The Bears are in the same boat too. The Texans are lucky that they have great defense, good running game, and are in a Manning-less division.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca R. View Post
    If there's such parity in the league, tell me who has a truly legitimate shot at winning the Super Bowl right now since that's the goal of all teams in the league that aren't rebuilding. There aren't many: Packers, Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Saints, 49ers maybe, and maybe the Giants. That's it. The Texans and Bears lost their QB's. Sorry they're done.
    I beg to differ, I don't see the Giants in the play offs. I'd say either the Bengals, Jets, or Cowboys, but I'm biased towards the Jets
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca R. View Post
    If there's such parity in the league, tell me who has a truly legitimate shot at winning the Super Bowl right now since that's the goal of all teams in the league that aren't rebuilding. There aren't many: Packers, Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Saints, 49ers maybe, and maybe the Giants. That's it. The Texans and Bears lost their QB's. Sorry they're done.
    In the last 11 NFL seasons, there have been 5 wildcard teams in the superbowl: the '99 Titans (lost in the final seconds to the Rams), '00 Ravens (beat the Giants), '05 Steelers (beat the Seahawks; they were also the first 6th seed to win the SB), '07 Giants (beat the Patriots), and last year's Packers, who were a 6th seed. In fact, this time last year it looked like the Pack would miss the playoffs as Rodgers got a concussion in their loss to the Lions. They were far from anyone's SB favorites at that moment.

    And if "better location" is such a major factor, then why is Green Bay, Wisconsin home to the only undefeated team? Why have the Patriots and Colts been the top two of the top teams of the 00s? "More money" is moot; every team has a salary cap and is free to manage it as they see fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxyman1167 View Post
    I beg to differ, I don't see the Giants in the play offs. I'd say either the Bengals, Jets, or Cowboys, but I'm biased towards the Jets
    idk. It differs from person to person I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    In the last 11 NFL seasons, there have been 5 wildcard teams in the superbowl: the '99 Titans (lost in the final seconds to the Rams), '00 Ravens (beat the Giants), '05 Steelers (beat the Seahawks; they were also the first 6th seed to win the SB), '07 Giants (beat the Patriots), and last year's Packers, who were a 6th seed. In fact, this time last year it looked like the Pack would miss the playoffs as Rodgers got a concussion in their loss to the Lions. They were far from anyone's SB favorites at that moment.
    I didn't say that Super Bowl favorites always won the Super Bowl. The examples you listed show how wonderful the Wild Card truly is since if a team gets really hot (Packers) they can go and win the Super Bowl by just sneaking in. Really now, let's note that the likes of the Chargers, Eagles, and Jets were among the favorites this year guys.

    And if "better location" is such a major factor, then why is Green Bay, Wisconsin home to the only undefeated team? Why have the Patriots and Colts been the top two of the top teams of the 00s? "More money" is moot; every team has a salary cap and is free to manage it as they see fit.
    Better location is a factor since in cities like New York and Dallas go and support there team. Green Bay has always supported there team and it just shows how popular the NFL is. Green Bay isn't Jacksonville which is terrible. To answer your question, Green Bay is the only city to have an undefeated team is because they have Rodgers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca R. View Post
    The Broncos aren't a top 10 team. Please stop joking.
    They could be. Right now the Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Texans, Packers, Saints and 49ers are the only teams with a better record. A case could be made that the 7-5 Broncos could also be up there, since the other teams with the same record aren't clearly better. Even if they're not, they're certainly close, I don't see why you think he was joking.

    The Texans and Bears lost their QB's. Sorry they're done.
    Bears are pretty much done, especially because Forte got injured as well, but Houston has been doing great. I don't know exactly when Schaub was injured, but they're winning without him, aren't they?
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    Now you're pretty much contradicting yourself. All you have done is state that there is no parity in the NFL, but you have yet to provide solid evidence while those opposite of you have repeatedly brought evidence to support their arguments.

    And while the Packers are without a doubt better than the Jags, Jacksonville is superior to Green Bay for pretty much everything else (unless you're a cheese-maker). Florida winter >>>>>>>>Wisconsin winter. Also, Florida has no state income tax, which is a big deal when you make millions (case in point: a factor in LeBron's decision to go to Miami instead of New York). On paper, Jacksonville would have a significant leg up over Green Bay in the Free Agency game.

    Also, don't forget that 22 NFL teams (2/3 of the league) had a fair shot at picking Rogers before Green Bay did. And Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. They very well could have played for some other franchise and have made them great, but they passed on them.

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