Eight Ain't Enough! (388)

[frednmethod]

And again, Pikachu only battled TWICE. How the hell is that stealing anyone's glory? e_e

Then tell me, how many times does a pokemon have to battle to be glorious for your standards?
The fact that it beat two pokemon in the battle and was the last one standing, makes it the glorious pokemon of the day. In case you didn't notice, it's usually the last pokemon in the battlefield that gets the glory, and in this episode, as was in many others, it was Pikachu.

Big difference there. It was able to move while battling Kekking. It could not after Rabukasu's Sweet Kiss had taken effect.

So? What's moving got to do with the taken damage? Moving might have a lot to do with EVADING an attack, but we clearly saw in that grovyle took full blast of hyper beam in the 5th battle. Even though we got struck home by water gun, he should have had some resistance to it.

[Geodude]

Sure, if it was in its right senses. Surely being confused contributed to its early fainting.

[£añkaÑ]

Well...i'm glad Ash had won...and Pikachu to get the Final Hoenn Gym Spotlight...but sad the Snorunt didn't...oh well...

I can't wait to see the Pics...it should be intresting to see Grovyle hitting itself in the COLUMN...lol...

[IMPERIAL DRAGON]

Pika stealing the glory was to be expected, but Grovyle losing to a bloody Luvdisc is unforgivable. Yeah we all know that the games and anime ain't the same but the degree of strength in the games is usually reflected in the anime, so no matter which was you cut it, Luvdisc is the epitome of utter crapness with possibly one of the worst special attack stats around. Bloody stupid...

But on the other hand, before Treecko evolved into Grovyle, wasn't Treecko losing a lot... not speculation, just curious.

[TeddiUrsa]

yeah..grovyle should be undefeatable just because he s so kick-*** cool....-_-"
God, I don t understand why everyone is so grovyle addicted...he won as a treecko the 2nd and as grovyle the 5th gym battle and killed altaria...I think he can take a few looses...you guys are acting like the world is going to end because of grovyle loosing to a luvdisc..think of it..adan was using a better strategy....and that luvdisc was very strong..game stats can t be transfered into the anime..I mean..a real grovyle shouldn t be able to win against an altaria, but it did and noone was complaining...-.-
grovyle couldn t move and couldn t doge luvdiscs attack, so he lost..what s so "unforgivable" about that?
I think it was unexpected that grovyle lost to luvdisc and that s what makes gym battles interesting..they are not very predictable ( mostly..)

[Swellow]

I have to at least Second Alfonso I can only stand Pikachu, getting that way on Treecko/Groovyle on the Sidelines for Battles, let the Exclusive Hoenn pokemon besides Groovyle get some action. At least Corphish beat a Pokemon and Swellow fought.

[frednmethod]

yeah..grovyle should be undefeatable just because he s so kick-*** cool....-_-"
God, I don t understand why everyone is so grovyle addicted...he won as a treecko the 2nd and as grovyle the 5th gym battle and killed altaria...I think he can take a few looses...you guys are acting like the world is going to end because of grovyle loosing to a luvdisc..think of it..adan was using a better strategy....and that luvdisc was very strong..game stats can t be transfered into the anime..I mean..a real grovyle shouldn t be able to win against an altaria, but it did and noone was complaining...-.-
grovyle couldn t move and couldn t doge luvdiscs attack, so he lost..what s so "unforgivable" about that?
I think it was unexpected that grovyle lost to luvdisc and that s what makes gym battles interesting..they are not very predictable ( mostly..)

well the thing is, grovyle doesn't have that much wins as we think.

only 4 wins and 3 losses.

Grovyle
win:
vs Golduck
vs Slaking
vs Altaria
vs Quagsire & Walrein (with Pikachu)

lost:
vs Swellow
vs Altaria
vs Luvdisc

Like all of Ash's pokemon besides Pikachu, grovyle needs more wins and more spotlight.
come to think of it, it has a better win/loss stat than Torkoal.

Torkoal
win:
vs Steelix
vs Slakoth
vs Scizor
vs Lombre

lost:
vs Manectric
vs Vigoroth

[Gravy]

I think it was unexpected that grovyle lost to luvdisc and that s what makes gym battles interesting..they are not very predictable ( mostly..)

On the contrary, I thought this Gym battle turned out to be very predictable. Infact, one of the most predictable so far~ I personally had no doubt that Grovyle was going to lose to that Luvdisc as soon as I saw the preview for part one as it dodged the onslaught of Bullet Seed attacks with ease.
I thought it was inevitable that this Luvdisc was going to do something amazing and it appears it did just that.
I know game stats don't come into play in terms of the animé, but you have to admit, a flimsy little fish like Luvdisc wiping the floor with a Grovyle thats already been established as amazingly strong just...well....sucks :X Hell, I'm not a rabid Grovyle fan myself, but even I found it ridiculous. Its like they didn't even give Grovyle a chance.

Although I am one of those who are rather frustrated at the fact Grovyle was apparantly taken down quite quickly, I'm still more annoyed at the fact that Corphish wasn't given as much screentime as it should have been given. I mean, come on, surely a water field was the perfect chance for the little guy to redeem itself and lay the smack-down (as they say) on some tough opponents? Thats what I find the most annoying about this match anyway. We didn't need to see Pikachu take the final win AGAIN ~.~ Give us something different, geeze...

I'm not usually one to judge something before I see it, but for a 2 part final gym battle this one doesn't sound too impressive at all. I don't mean to sound negative, but this just sounds somewhat standard and bland IMO. At least during the Liza and Tate battle there were a few surprises along the way *shrug*

[TeddiUrsa]

Maybe you re right.. but I don t watch previews..I watch the episodes and mostly skip the preview. But I was sure that grovyle will loose to luvdisc because of the last scene from the first part, but I think the whole situation was quite untypical.
But I was hoping for snorunt to fight a bit longer..I think that frustrated me more than grovyle losing.
And I fing it somewhat funny and entertaining that grovyle lost to a pokemon that everybody seems to hate ^^

[Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior]

well the thing is, grovyle doesn't have that much wins as we think.

only 4 wins and 3 losses.

Grovyle
win:
vs Golduck
vs Slaking
vs Altaria
vs Quagsire & Walrein (with Pikachu)

lost:
vs Swellow
vs Altaria
vs Luvdisc

Like all of Ash's pokemon besides Pikachu, grovyle needs more wins and more spotlight.
come to think of it, it has a better win/loss stat than Torkoal.

Torkoal
win:
vs Steelix
vs Slakoth
vs Scizor
vs Lombre

lost:
vs Manectric
vs Vigoroth

HA PROOF THAT TORKOAL IS BETTER THEN GROVYLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! GROVYLE HAS LOST MORE THAN TORKOAL MAKING TORKOAL BETTER!!!!


well i cant wait for the synphosis of this ep it looked realy cool!

[IMPERIAL DRAGON]

Well no one expects Grovyle to be omnipotent and damn near impossible to beat, the thing that has annoyed people is that a Luvdisc beating a Grovyle just ain't logical, aspecially as how strong Ash's Grovyle is, it just ain't realistic. If it had lost to Milotic then that would be fine because it would of fell to a worthy opponant, but losing to a little piece of crap like Luvdisc is just, well stupidly funny lol It would of made more sense is Luvdisc knew ice beam or something. Oh well, everyone already hated Luvdisc, this doesn't help its reputation...

[Almighty Zard]

Well no one expects Grovyle to be omnipotent and damn near impossible to beat, the thing that has annoyed people is that a Luvdisc beating a Grovyle just ain't logical, aspecially as how strong Ash's Grovyle is, it just ain't realistic. If it had lost to Milotic then that would be fine because it would of fell to a worthy opponant, but losing to a little piece of crap like Luvdisc is just, well stupidly funny lol It would of made more sense is Luvdisc knew ice beam or something. Oh well, everyone already hated Luvdisc, this doesn't help its reputation...

what makes me angry is that i know that there are some people in the forums that like luvdisc and they are probably laughing there heads off at everybody that hates it because grovyle lost to it.

[Yamato-san]

Oh well, everyone already hated Luvdisc, this doesn't help its reputation...

You got that right. To quote my friend over AIM, "That thing was already on my least favorites list, now it's on my hit list".

Anyway, Edward Elric, you said earlier that Juptle would be unable to get up again because of its condition, but shouldn't that be 'paralysis'? Angel's Kiss caused 'confusion', which means no matter how out of its senses it is, Juptle should still be able to stand up, or at least flail around on the floor, or something. If it's not moving, though, that means it was fainted, not restrained by its condition. And as everyone's been saying, that all seems pretty illogical not just by game stats, but by observations throughout the anime itself. Speaking of which, this isn't the games, but during stuff like Mikan's gym battle, they actually do make reference to type resistance being halved damage, so with that in mind, a Water Gun to a Juptle should be considered even moreso.

[Torkoal Stu]

Sorry but it's REALLY annoying when people bug us every other post asking what happened. It doesn't make things go any faster. :\

sorry! also sorry about the torkoal thing but i just like him alot!!!

[Zoramon089]

Pics are up but they seem to have captured the worst parts of the fight. They always seemed a second off of soemthing important. Anyway. It looked like an awesome fight. The best gym one yet

[Almighty Zard]

Pics are up but they seem to have captured the worst parts of the fight. They always seemed a second off of soemthing important. Anyway. It looked like an awesome fight. The best gym one yet

Yes if you don't mind what happened to grovyle dude in the opening, Luvdisc will pay for this atrosity

[Pokemon Fan]

Okay, allow me to add some perspective to this, but first a point about the whole "not able to move/defend thing on Grovyle.

So? What's moving got to do with the taken damage? Moving might have a lot to do with EVADING an attack, but we clearly saw in that grovyle took full blast of hyper beam in the 5th battle. Even though we got struck home by water gun, he should have had some resistance to it.

I assume that the people noting that Grovyle couldn't move are trying more to say it could make no effort to defend, to even brace its muscles for the impact. I'm reminded of an episode of Yu Yu Hakusho (a fighting anime), where Yusuke is hit hard by a blast of energy and is rocketed back to end up in a pile of concrete rubble. Moments later he leaps back out, with hardly a scratch on him, but notes that if he hadn't had his guard up the attack would probably have killed him. Merely being able to anticipate an attack can greatly reduce damage in a real fight. In another fight on Yu Yu, Kurama keeps fighting long after he was expected to by intentionally letting non vital areas of hsi body get wounded to block vital areas, all due to an awareness of where and when an attack would come and how it would hit. Grovyle was completely blindsided it seems.

And anyone who's played the games knows that the damage a Pokemon gets from "hurting itself in its confusion" (i.e Grovyle slamming his head into stone) can be quite nasty. ^_^

Still, I wish they had had the Luvdisc use Ice Beam to win. But lets all hope that this loss encourages Grovyle to train even harder.

<><><>

Reasons Corphish should not have gotten the final spotlight:

1. It was a Water type in a Water gym which did give it a number of advantages. However, it was also fighting other Water types more experienced and more at home in this gym than it was. As it stands it still beat two opponents, which is pretty good I say. I mean really, aside from Guillotine (which it doesn't know) how could anyone expect Corphish to beat a Milotic?

2. It simply isn't strong enough yet. Really, even Grovyle wouldn't be able to beat Milotic most likely, as Pikachu's Thunder does more extensive damage than Leaf Blade.

<><><>

Reasons Pikachu was the only logical choice for beating Milotic (really how are so many surprised, Pikachu was the only member of the team who really stood a chance except maybe Grovyle) :

1. Pikachu is without a doubt the overall most experienced and strongest member of Ash's travelling team right now, all the others are (presumably) younger and (definately) less experienced. It should be expected to pull off a good number of trump-card victories just as Charizard did in previous seasons.

2. Pikachu has a natural advantage over Water types, but whats more, by being in the conductive water it can intensify the attack and send it into the entire field, making it impossible to dodge and greatly increasing damage.

3. Milotic is a extremely powerful, Gyarados-level creature, and this one was owned by a very experienced trainer (older and more traveled than Norman by the looks of it). From the beginning I was quite certain Pikachu was the only one who had any chance of defeating Milotic, although I thought that they just might have it weaken it a lot then have another Pokemon deliver the final few blows, but really I think I prefer this.

4. Ash's Pikachu IS the mascot of Pokemon as well as a unique member of its species. We should accept it will be getting star-worthy victories until the end of time (or the series, whichever comes first). I say its better than some of the semi-unbelievable defeats it suffered in Johto (i.e one Night Shade from a Gastly). It isn't as though others haven't been able to star as well. Yes, Pikachu gets an unfair number of big battles, but that unfairness should be understood in light of the fact that Pikachu is the beloved Mascot and the most experienced member of the team.

However, I share others hopes that Ash's team will strengthen by the time of the tournament so that his Hoenn Pokemon aren't overhadowed by earlier, more experienced Pokemon like in the Silver Conference (as enjoyable as some of those battles were). As it is, his Hoenn Pokemon team is stronger than his Johto one at the point of the eighth gym, proven by how much better they did compared to his travelling team at the eighth gym in Johto.

<><><>

Really people, think of all the great things this gym battle has to offer. We've never had Pikachu deleiver a massive Thunder underwater before and for me the highlight might be Swellow using Aerial Ace UNDERWATER.

And lastly, even though people tend to look only at the last match up, every battle is about as important as the others since the final match wouldn't happen if it weren't for them. Look at the eighth gym in Johto. None of Ash's team but Snorlax could get past Kingdra, making its defeat as important as Dragonair's.

[jolteonjak]

Yah that sucks about Grovyle. One thing people may want to keep in mind (I don't like Luvdisc anymore than the other haters), is that gymleader Pokemon are typically stronger than your average Pokemon. While I'm glad Ash won, I'm sad to see Adan fade into the background so fast. <3 Adan

[Chris]

*sigh*

For those forgetting the effect of Sweet Kiss, it causes confusion within the Pokémon. Juputoru was too confused to even know what it was attacking. It went on using Pound on a pillar, SLAMMING its head repeatedly into it. Rabukasu then fired off a shot that DID hit hard and knocked out Juputoru. Its confusion had a role in this because it couldn't really do much about it. Let's use a good example. Being confused is about close to being drunk (quiet, best I could come up with). Both don't have full usage of their bodies and have a hard time seeing straight. Reflexes are rather low, leaving them open. Knock a drunk man over, see if he gets up fast. XP

Juputoru was confused and could not move around much. There's no way it would've been able to withstand an attack that was a direct hit. Not to mention, the impact of hitting the floor on one's back and bouncing a few inches once or twice.

I STILL do not understand how being in TWO battles makes Pikachu a glory hog. Only being in two out of five battles is nothing. Hell, would you guys rather he had used Kootasu instead? With Juputoru knocked out, Pikachu was the only good choice to use. Did you guys already forget that Heigani and Oosubame did their best as well? Or are we just gonna ignore that and focus hatred towards Pikachu? Pikachu did not "save the day" otherwise it'd have beaten ALL of Adan's Pokémon.

So a Rabukasu knocked out Juputoru, big deal. Adan strategically beat it and it was simply too fast. Get over yourselves. --;

[Gravy]

I mean really, aside from Guillotine (which it doesn't know) how could anyone expect Corphish to beat a Milotic?

Wouldn't it be the writer's job to come up with such things? I'm sure they could have thought of some creative way in which Milotic could be taken down by a pokémon that doesn't have the luxary of having super-effective attacks. Like...um...lessee...Corphish could have combined Crabhammer and Bubblebeam together, enabling it to repeatedly club Milotic whilst injuring it with a good energy attack also, thus disabling it from being able to recover. And that was just off the top of my head :x Hitting something with a Thunder/bolt whilst underwater just doesn't impress me at all I'm afraid ^^;

Pikachu is without a doubt the overall most experienced and strongest member of Ash's travelling team right now, all the others are (presumably) younger and (definately) less experienced. It should be expected to pull off a good number of trump-card victories just as Charizard did in previous seasons.

Thats the problem right there. The fact that Pikachu tends to be relied on so often. Which of course, doesn't give pokémon that actually need more experience the chance to get any. Surely if Pikachu was used a lot less often and the rest of the team were used a lot more, there wouldn't be too much need for a trump card ne? As you said "Pikachu gets an unfair number of big battles" which in turn is certainly going to effect the rest of the teams strength from developing in the long run.

I STILL do not understand how being in TWO battles makes Pikachu a glory hog. Only being in two out of five battles is nothing. Hell, would you guys rather he had used Kootasu instead? With Juputoru knocked out, Pikachu was the only good choice to use. Did you guys already forget that Heigani and Oosubame did their best as well? Or are we just gonna ignore that and focus hatred towards Pikachu? Pikachu did not "save the day" otherwise it'd have beaten ALL of Adan's Pokémon

I don't think that Pikachu fighting in two battles is what makes him a 'glory hog', its the fact that he has to defeat the final, strongest foe which in turn makes him look super-duper special once again~
I may not have any liking towards Pikachu, but I try not to let that get in the way. Fact of the matter is, I want to see something new in a Gym battle and Pikachu manages to prevent that to a certain degree. I've seen Pikachu finishing off strong opponents with an electric attack before, I don't need to KEEP seeing that :/
I think Swellow had a decent battle here, and Corphish's wasn't too bad. I just wish he'd gotten more spotlight this time around as all.

So a Rabukasu knocked out Juputoru, big deal. Adan strategically beat it and it was simply too fast. Get over yourselves. --;

I find the fact that Grovyle was defeated easily by the Luvdisc to be the most frustrating aspect. If Grovyle had actually gotten a chance to actually put up a decent fight, I wouldn't be as bothered about it as I am now. As I said before, Grovyle didn't even get a chance~