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Thread: Best Dream World Ability

  1. #26
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    Or we can try Flight Jewel Acrobatics Sceptile... nah we don't need overkill speed. :|
    But mixed set is certainly viable here.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeoneIGuess View Post
    Actually Unburden makes Sceptile be able to run a mixed set. Since you don't need any speed to outrun Adamant Excadrill...
    How does it help run a mix set? It doesn't have enough stats on Attack and requires Sword Dance?

  3. #28
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    Adaptability Feebas, obviously.
    Originally posted by: R4GEKILL!!! No need for STAB. STAB is stupid.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dattebayo View Post
    But it's a pointless ability for Sceptile as he's already able to outspeed everything not named Accelgor, Ninjask, and Deoxys-S.
    It outruns Scarfers with Unburden, as well as Excadrill (one of the FEW Pokemon to do so). Because of all the speed Sceptile can put the extra EVs into HP or, if mixed, Attack. You only need 88 Speed and a +nature to outrun Jolly Excadrill.

    That leaves a lot of options for sets. Maybe a Subseed set with Petaya Berry and HP Fire, SD Set with Liechi, mixed set with grass / hidden power / earthquake, etc. Sceptile is reasonably hard to switch in to.

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    ^
    Only downside is Petaya/Liechi are unreleased as of right now I believe.
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  6. #31
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    I'm gonna go with Sap Sipper.

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  7. #32
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    Lol you for real? SAP SIPPER!?

    S-tag chanderlure is ultimate revenge, drought drizzle is just... and speed boost and magic mirror and you say SAP SIPPER!?
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  8. #33
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    Shadow Tag is old, and broken
    Infinite Sun and Rain are just cheap
    Speed Boost Blaziken is also broken
    Magic Mirror isn't fun either. Really, that does that do when Tyranitar Crunches your head off?

    Sap Sipper opens sweeps, provides Spore immunity (Magic Mirror does that but do Espeon and Xatu sweep? No, duh), etc. Besides, it's sorta cool.
    Ignore, thanks.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by calze6 View Post
    Lol you for real? SAP SIPPER!?

    S-tag chanderlure is ultimate revenge, drought drizzle is just... and speed boost and magic mirror and you say SAP SIPPER!?
    I wasn't joking. Sap Sipper is one of my new counters for Drought teams and it is the perfect counter for Spore.

  10. #35
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    Personally, I hate the the release of Drizzle and Drought ninetales and politoed...That's just unbalanced. Besides, Groudon/Kyogre don't have any signature anymore, so they'll need signature moves.

    Moxie is overrated, I always beat moxie users using my intimidate gyrados. It can get up a good amount of DDs.

    The best...I can't deny Drizzle/Drought are good, and I will use them(Like I did with SR), but I still don't like them...Good thing they added more cloud nine users though. Justified gave lucario and actual ability. I found poison heal to be good, even though it was weakened. Multiscale is good, same gos for Sheer Force.
    Well, with our luck, who's to say that there will be two entirely new weather conditions that only groudon and kyogre can get through the dream world, when the ruby/saphirre remakes are released. I bet it'll be like wind or something.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365pokemon View Post
    Well, with our luck, who's to say that there will be two entirely new weather conditions that only groudon and kyogre can get through the dream world, when the ruby/saphirre remakes are released. I bet it'll be like wind or something.
    We already have a form of that in the move Tailwind.
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  12. #37
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    We already have a form of that in the move Tailwind.
    Yeah... I don't know, what other weather effects could there be?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365pokemon View Post
    Well, with our luck, who's to say that there will be two entirely new weather conditions that only groudon and kyogre can get through the dream world, when the ruby/saphirre remakes are released. I bet it'll be like wind or something.
    If anyone got wind, it'd be Rayquaza, which is pretty much God of Sky, just as Groudon and Kyogre are Land and Sea. Groudon with sand stream would actually make some sense. Kyogre, however, I've got no clue for. Not sure what would be better than drizzle either.

    Rayquaza, no, ANYTHING bringing about permanent tailwind would be ridiculous even by uber standards. Free Sand-rush/Swift Swim/Chlorophyll for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by someoneIguess
    Shadow Tag is old, and broken
    Infinite Sun and Rain are just cheap
    Speed Boost Blaziken is also broken
    Nothing is "cheap," so long as its allowed by the rules. The word "cheap" is a word meant to accuse both a certain strategy and the players who use it. Those players are only trying to maximize their chances of winning, which is what competitive pokemon is all about, with whatever resources are given to them. People should not be criticized for doing whatever it takes, within the rules, to win.

    What there is, however, are aspects that can decrease the depth and quality of a meta-game. Communities, like Smogon or PO, decide in their own ways what constitutes the optimal meta-game, and if removing certain aspects improves the metagame, it is done.

    Word choice aside, however, you are right in decrying some of the abilities for having a negative effect on the game. Shadow Tag is probably the biggest offender there, and that is why Wobbuffet was rightly banned in previous generations. Chandelure makes it much worse. Thus "best" in terms of advantage gain is "bad" for the quality of the game. I'm reserving judgement on permanent weather, because while it is powerful, there are still enough options within each weather to perpetuate a level of variety.

    I'll agree that Sap sipper is a wonderful ability. Azumarill in particular might find some real use for it.

    I'm surprised that the pokemon who got Hydration, except maybe Vaporeon, haven't done so well. Is that because of the risk of resting on a turn where the foe changes the weather?
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  14. #39

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    Moody and Moxie and Speed boost

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  15. #40
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    Forecast.

    Definitely Forecast.

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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RifleAvenger View Post
    Nothing is "cheap," so long as its allowed by the rules. The word "cheap" is a word meant to accuse both a certain strategy and the players who use it. Those players are only trying to maximize their chances of winning, which is what competitive pokemon is all about, with whatever resources are given to them. People should not be criticized for doing whatever it takes, within the rules, to win.

    What there is, however, are aspects that can decrease the depth and quality of a meta-game. Communities, like Smogon or PO, decide in their own ways what constitutes the optimal meta-game, and if removing certain aspects improves the metagame, it is done.

    Word choice aside, however, you are right in decrying some of the abilities for having a negative effect on the game. Shadow Tag is probably the biggest offender there, and that is why Wobbuffet was rightly banned in previous generations. Chandelure makes it much worse. Thus "best" in terms of advantage gain is "bad" for the quality of the game. I'm reserving judgement on permanent weather, because while it is powerful, there are still enough options within each weather to perpetuate a level of variety.

    I'll agree that Sap sipper is a wonderful ability. Azumarill in particular might find some real use for it.
    Agreed with the semantics EXCEPT...

    Shadow Tag is cheap though :|
    It is a HUGE offender and makes something like Wobbuffet and Chandelure quite monstrously broken.

    Some objections:

    "But things hit harder this gen!"
    As opposed to what? Yes Haxorus hits ridiculously hard and Gamefreak has a huge fetish for hard hitting Pokemon this gen apparently, but wasn't Wobbuffet played in ubers and still got away in spite of the harder hitting Pokemon? Besides, you choose who to switch Wobbuffet into and trap them, and unless the other guy had a Shed Shell or have Shadow Tag themselves or maybe U-turn/Volt Switch, they're not escaping the clutches of Wobbuffet anyways. There is NO ONE with brains out there who will switch a Wobbuffet against a Hydreigon, for example.

    "But Encore is nerfed for 3 turns!"
    You're still helping something to set up, regardless of the turn nerf, 3 turns is all you need to help something set up.

    "Good players can counter Chandelure"
    No, you can revenge it with stuff like Tyranitar, but you can't counter Shadow Tag Chandelure without taking overspecialised measures. For example, you will need to carry Shed Shell on every Pokemon just to escape one Pokemon from revenge killing something. How is that countering? There is no way to directly switch into Chandelure because Chandelure chooses who to KO and who it doesn't. It's quite simple; you meet Shadow Tag Chandelure, that's the end of the road for you.

    "Stealth Rocks chips off 25% HP off Chandelure"
    ... still a good 4 Pokemon quite possibly revenged.

    Now that I got that cleared up...

    Yes, Sap Sipper is awesome. Grass immunity is something not to be scorned. Sure, Grass isn't that great of an offensive typing, but it saves you from being, I don't know, Contrary Serperior dead or Leech Seeding Ferrothorns. In fact, that attack boost can make a Sawsbuck an ideal counter to Ferrothorn, dealing considerable damage to Ferrothorn with Jump Kick while switching into a Leech Seed or Power Whip. Gyro Ball I imagine might hurt a bit, and Thunder Wave is no fun.
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  17. #42
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    If anyone got wind, it'd be Rayquaza, which is pretty much God of Sky, just as Groudon and Kyogre are Land and Sea. Groudon with sand stream would actually make some sense. Kyogre, however, I've got no clue for. Not sure what would be better than drizzle either.

    Rayquaza, no, ANYTHING bringing about permanent tailwind would be ridiculous even by uber standards. Free Sand-rush/Swift Swim/Chlorophyll for everyone.
    They probably won't get new abilities, just new moves. But a premanent trick room ability would be awesome.

    Oh and unnerve on ttar means that if you run it, your team doesn't have to be based on sandstorm, which is quite useful.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365pokemon View Post
    They probably won't get new abilities, just new moves. But a premanent trick room ability would be awesome.

    Oh and unnerve on ttar means that if you run it, your team doesn't have to be based on sandstorm, which is quite useful.
    Eh, somewhat borderline with the whole sandstorm stuff. Yes, it means no residual damage for non Ground/Rock/Steels or helping enemy Excadrills (though people rarely run that guy without Tyranitar), but that also means a significant decrease in Tar's Special Defence. With the sand up, Tyranitar can be tailored to even survive a LO Focus Blast from Timid Gengar and other significant damaging moves like LO + 1 Bug Buzz from Volcarona, etc. That is, if you EV it that way. So the whole sand stuff is up to debate whether one wants to get rid of it or not.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Monarch View Post
    Eh, somewhat borderline with the whole sandstorm stuff. Yes, it means no residual damage for non Ground/Rock/Steels or helping enemy Excadrills (though people rarely run that guy without Tyranitar), but that also means a significant decrease in Tar's Special Defence. With the sand up, Tyranitar can be tailored to even survive a LO Focus Blast from Timid Gengar and other significant damaging moves like LO + 1 Bug Buzz from Volcarona, etc. That is, if you EV it that way. So the whole sand stuff is up to debate whether one wants to get rid of it or not.
    I must agree. Back when I used TTar, I was always surprised how well it took special hits. I raised a bulky variant that could take a lot of punishment. Without sand, T-Tar is vulnerable to special hits, and loses the ability to mess with opposing weather. Sandstorm actually has few real abusers, and one use of T-Tar is to throw a monkey-wrench into Drought and Drizzle teams.
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  20. #45
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    I must agree. Back when I used TTar, I was always surprised how well it took special hits. I raised a bulky variant that could take a lot of punishment. Without sand, T-Tar is vulnerable to special hits, and loses the ability to mess with opposing weather. Sandstorm actually has few real abusers, and one use of T-Tar is to throw a monkey-wrench into Drought and Drizzle teams.
    Yes, but this means that now you can put tyranitar with pokes that you couldn't really before.

  21. #46
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    Sand works like a double-edged sword, but I don't mind if one or two of my Pokemon don't like the sand. It's not like my opponent will have a team of 6 sand immune Pokemon, right?
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  22. #47
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    I can't imagine tyranitar being used outside of sand anyway. What team would he fit on? I guess he'd just revert to his old Choice Scarf standard and be used to nail Starmie and co, which would as such make him a prime choice to use if you are using something like CB Garchomp. But even then, Garchomp really quite likes the sand being up and would still love tyranitar to take Stray surfs and stuff for him, which would be a much harder feat if the sand wasn't up.

    Yeah Ttar sans sand to me seems really pointless.

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  23. #48
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    Sheer Force.

    Nidoking is even more of a beast now than when he was a rabbit.

  24. #49
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    Sheer Force.

    Nidoking is even more of a beast now than when he was a rabbit
    Yes, I have a question for everyone: for items on nidoking: life orb or scarf? Life orb means more damage, but nidoking is relatively slow, and it already gets a boost without it.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365pokemon View Post
    They probably won't get new abilities, just new moves. But a premanent trick room ability would be awesome.

    Oh and unnerve on ttar means that if you run it, your team doesn't have to be based on sandstorm, which is quite useful.
    A trick room ability would be far to unbalanced. Curse snorlax, rampardos, iron ball ditto, Escavalier....

    Unerve sucks. Would you sacrifice tyranitar's special defense boost for a useless ability?
    Yes, I have a question for everyone: for items on nidoking: life orb or scarf? Life orb means more damage, but nidoking is relatively slow, and it already gets a boost without it.
    As a sweeper, try a scarf. As a wall breaker, use the life orb.
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