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Thread: DRAGONSTEEL! (Gen 5 Wifi with Haxorus)

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    Default DRAGONSTEEL! (Gen 5 Wifi with Haxorus)

    DRAGONSTEEL!

    Okay title over...


    Introduction

    After reading a certain thread about the viability of Haxorus in OU I came across a post made by Tbird which included a set I like a lot. Thus this team was born. I toiled for minutes and minutes to create a team which forms the perfect environment for my favourite two sweepers to work together to take out the opponents team, with a little help from some old friends ofcourse. After doing a few battles with this team I have decided it needs a few tweaks, the idea behind it is good but just a teency bit off with the execution. Which is where I need your help. It is for PO and here are the clauses used...


    EDIT: I was told by Blue Harvest that Haxorus just doesn't have the bulk to pull this off, therefor I decided to use a DD Mence instead :P


    What Clauses?
    Item Clause [X]
    Wifi Clause [✓]
    Sleep Clause [✓]
    Freeze Clause [X]
    Species Clause [✓]
    Move Tutor Clause [X]
    Ubers Clause [✓]
    Legends Clause [X]


    A quick look



    In Depth




    Azumarill [BgBluga] @ Leftovers
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Huge Power
    Evs: 252 hp / 252 attk / 4 sp def
    Moves:
    -Substitute
    -Aqua Jet
    -Ice Punch
    -Waterfall

    Ok so Azumarill, underrated, under used and underaprecieted. I love this lil' guy, STAB priority coming from a 400 odd attack stat is good at breaking down sand sweepers like Excadrill and even the odd Volcarona. The EVs provide maximum bulk and power to abuse my priority and high HP stat. Substitute with a base 100 hp stat allows me to obtain 101 hp subs letting me beat S-Tossers. Aqua jet is priority and great for tearing up sand teams. Waterfall is what I use when I'm behind a sub for some extra power, Ice Punch is for dragons and substitute helps ease prediction with the hundreds of switches an aqua jet can cause for a sand team. This guy usually gets 2 kills and I love him for it If anyone has any suggestions for someone else to use here please don't hesitate. Called him Big Beluga just because he is awsome




    Latios [BluHrvst] @ Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Levitate
    Evs: 252 sp attk / 252 spe / 4 sp def
    Moves:
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Substitute
    -Hidden Power [Fire]
    -Surf

    Latios is unbelievably powerfull, he also forms the first half of my double dragon combo. His job is one of two things usually; break down opponents dragon counters with a sub on switches or come in later on and clean up after my opponents dragon counters are gone thanks to my other dragon. The EVs are cookie cutter, 252 speed lets me outspeed stuff, 252 sp attack lets me smack stuff really hard :/ Dragon pulse is this sets obligatory STAB, it's reliable and has better coverage than psyshock. Hidden power fire is for wasting steels,surf is for wasting ground types and fire types. Substitute is what makes this set so good at taking down dragon counters, it virtually allows me to ignore any prediction when facing off against an opponent with steel types such as Scizor. I love this guy and he is about as helpful for my team as the real Blue Harvest is with other peoples, which is a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it




    Starmie [Serebii] @ Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 spe / 252 sp attk / 4 hp
    Moves:
    -Hydro Pump
    -Ice Beam
    -Thunderbolt
    -Rapid Spin

    Life Orb Starmie checks waaaaaaaay too much stuff. It also provides valuable spin support for my team which is why I have nicknamed it serebii becuase without it my team would fall apart. As my two main sweepers really hate hazards such as spikes I decided to include a spinner, also my team is very easy to spike against (Especially for Ferro) which meant I needed Starmie. The EVs are very simple and just allow me to hit as hard and fast as possible, no recovery so no need for Hp EVs and they would lower the offensive nature of the set. Hydro Pump is obligatory STAB and usually my move of choice. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are coverage moves used to take out things hydro pump cannot such as dragons and water types. Rapid spin is there because it removes all the nasty hazards which hinder my team so much. Serebii is very helpful for this team and a very key player, without him it just wouldn't work. Just like Serebii here




    Salamence [Tbird] @ Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly / Naive
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 attk / 252 spe / 4 sp attk
    Moves:
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Blast / Hydro Pump

    Ok so I scrapped Hax and this is his replacement. Pretty standard unfortunately... Max speed and attack make him a powerful sweeper after just 1 DD. Dragon Dance + Life Orb = INSANITY! The damage this guy puts out is way more than my hax used to be able to pull out after 1 DD. Outrage gives me a very powerful STAB which can demolish teams later on in the game. Earthquake gives me coverage. I am unsure about which move to use in the last spot. With the rain on my team I am kind of hesitant to add this fire attack but I need it to beat ferro / skarm. Hydro Pump is also an option after the rain boost. I am not sure If I should use a bulkier Mence? To make better use of intimidate. Please give me an answer to this in your rates


    Magnezone [Fake] @ Leftovers
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 200 hp / 252 sp attk / 56 spe
    Moves:
    -Substitute
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power [Ice]
    -Charge Beam

    This is the second of the deadly Hax-Zone combo. His job is to eat up any haxoruses counters if they rear their ugly heads ealy on and THEN! kill something else, he also ruins skarmory and any other bulky steel type. The one problem I have with him is while he sets up he lets the opponent get his or her entry hazards up which can be problematic if starmie is dead. This would be later on though when the opponent is weak enough for me to clean with priority or Latios. The EVs give me enough speed to outspeed 8 speed Scizor. Maximum special attack to hit really hard and the rest in Hp to bulk up my subs. Substitute and Charge Beam form the "crux" of this set allowing me to set up on choice locked Scizor / Rachi and bulky steel types. I can then murder them while keeping my sub and murder something else with a +? Thunderbolt. Hidden Power [Ice] was chosen over fire for it being a better move for coverage and the simple fact this Magnezone doesn't kill steel types, it sets up on them. I named this one after me because it is my second favourite steel type next to Lucario




    Ferrothorn [Ragnarok] @ Leftovers
    Nature: Relaxed
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 248 Hp / 56 def / 204 sp def
    Moves:
    -Gyro Ball
    -Power Whip
    -Stealth Rock / Spikes
    -Leech Seed

    This is my hazards guy, I don't actually know why he is called Ragnarok but it fitted the theme I cannot for the life of me decide which hazard I should use. He provides a second dragon resistance and yet another water, fire, steel, grass and electric resistance. This guy is good but I think there could be a better option out there, discuss. The EVs give me lots of bulk on both sides and also rounding Hp down to avoid the hazard damage since I will be switching in a lot. Gyro Ball and Power Whip are obvious STAB moves and let him hit pretty hard univested. Leech seed gives me somewhat relaible recovery and consistant damage. This guy is the only really defencive pokemon on my team, looking for a possible replacement but I'm not sure yet.


    Old Friends... (Those who didn't quite cut it)


    Haxorus [Tbird] @ Haban Berry
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 attk / 72 hp / 184 spe
    Moves:
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Taunt
    -Earthquake

    This is one of star players of this team and the 2nd members of my double dragon combo. We have all heard of Yache-Chomp right? Well meet Haban-Hax, the idea behind this set is not to obtain one Dragon Dance but two. He does this with his haban berry which allows him to take whatever scarfed dragon that comes ins Outrage and DD in its face. Then outspeeding the next turn and sweeping the opponent. The EVs may seem rather random but 184 speed will give haxorus 606 speed after two dragon dances which is just enough to outspeed Excadrill. Then procede to wreck it up with EQ or outrage. Maximum attack allows me to hit as hard as is physicaly possible, the rest of the EVs go into hp to increase his respectable health. Outrage is the STAB move of choice because the lack of item and adamant nature means the extra power is incredibly helpful. Earthquake was chosen as its only coverage move because with Mold Breaker he can hit levitating steel types. Taunt was chosen to easily get a free boost vs any Skarmory which can jump me upto +2 in a matter of seconds, making him VERY DEADLY!
    Credit for this set goes to Tbird which is why he is named that


    Closing Words
    Thank you very much for reading my team, please post any useful comments you have on the team, including you mods who think this could be good. I will consider all criticism but if you are going to criticise me, back it up with reasons and an explanation of how to fix it, otherwise I will most likely ignore it.
    Last edited by 123fakestreet; 20th May 2011 at 5:30 PM.







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  2. #2
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    I say Choice Specs over Life Orb on Latios, and Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse. He could OHKO almost anything with that set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJMonty View Post
    I say Choice Specs over Life Orb on Latios, and Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse. He could OHKO almost anything with that set.
    Yes I agree completely that choice specs Latios hits ungodly hard but he doesnt do the job I want him to do for this team, which get a free sub when people switch scizor in and kill it, the move diversity is greatly aprecieted and sub just makes it that much more awsome at its job of scouting and killing.







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    I would use rocks on ferro, as that is the better one and no one else on your team provides it. Spikes is only there for if someone else provides rocks. Also, you have no true special wall, but a great physical wall in ferrothorn, so something like porygon-z could kill your team because your only revenge killer is starmie, which is not always perfect.
    BTW, what is move tutor clause?
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    Quote Originally Posted by algae5 View Post
    I would use rocks on ferro, as that is the better one and no one else on your team provides it. Spikes is only there for if someone else provides rocks. Also, you have no true special wall, but a great physical wall in ferrothorn, so something like porygon-z could kill your team because your only revenge killer is starmie, which is not always perfect.
    BTW, what is move tutor clause?
    This team is offensive, the plan was no real walls just support. I wanted spikes more than SR because I just thought spikes fitted the pressuring nature of the team. Move tutor clause is something rediculous that was brought to my attention by another thread in which someone stated it was "illegal" to use gen 4 and back move tutor moves on gen 5 wifi. I am humouring him

    EDIT: Porygon-Z's entire moveset 90% of the time is walled by magnezone
    Last edited by 123fakestreet; 19th May 2011 at 8:37 PM.







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    Lools pretty solid to me, I'll just check the threat list and edit this post when I'm done.

    Also just one question, who is your lead?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123fakestreet View Post
    This team is offensive, the plan was no real walls just support. I wanted spikes more than SR because I just thought spikes fitted the pressuring nature of the team. Move tutor clause is something rediculous that was brought to my attention by another thread in which someone stated it was "illegal" to use gen 4 and back move tutor moves on gen 5 wifi. I am humouring him

    EDIT: Porygon-Z's entire moveset 90% of the time is walled by magnezone
    Right I always forget that I am rare in that I use HP [fighting] unlike the rest of the meta . Sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeselord View Post
    Lools pretty solid to me, I'll just check the threat list and edit this post when I'm done.

    Also just one question, who is your lead?
    It is a wifi team clause team so there is no set lead. It varies depending on the opponents team.







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    Ok cool, from looking at the threatlist I have deduced that you can have almost all of your team swept by a shell smash cloyster if he is able to set up, haxy and latios dies to icicle spear, azumaril and starmie do to one-or two rock blasts, ferrothorn is 2HKOd by icicle spear and that leaves only magezone who isn't a sufficient counter alone, if he swotches in on an icicle spear and is hurt be rocks then he can be finished by waterfall next turn (O think). Also any dragon/quiver dancer can cause problems if you allow them to set up.

    Your main problem though is weavile! The choice band set OHKOs all except ferrothorn (who he may but I can't be bothered to run any calcs -_-) and the life orb varient KOs less but doesn't take as much rocks damage. At the moment rocks is your main counter to weavile (and it also helps with cloyster) so you need a spin blocker, a good choice would be sub/disable gengar who can even counter weavile if he switches in as gengar subs. I would replace starmie because you already habe enough special offensive power.

    Lastly I think that you need some priority to finish cloystir and dancers so maybe conkeldurr is an option over azumaril.
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    Something to consider: You could attempt a Choiced Azumarill if you're not doing the "Move Tutor Clause" (what?), which will power up that Aqua Jet and you could try taking out the Substitute for a powerful Superpower; not only would it be helpful for opposing Bulky Waters, but it has some nice SE hits that Waterfall might not have. Speaking of Waterfall, it might be a good idea to change that to Return or something, that way you can have the powerful Normal/Water combo at your disposal, being resisted by Empoleon and Ferrothorn only (this could work with both the Band OR the Sub set).
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeselord View Post
    Ok cool, from looking at the threatlist I have deduced that you can have almost all of your team swept by a shell smash cloyster if he is able to set up, haxy and latios dies to icicle spear, azumaril and starmie do to one-or two rock blasts, ferrothorn is 2HKOd by icicle spear and that leaves only magezone who isn't a sufficient counter alone, if he swotches in on an icicle spear and is hurt be rocks then he can be finished by waterfall next turn (O think). Also any dragon/quiver dancer can cause problems if you allow them to set up.

    Your main problem though is weavile! The choice band set OHKOs all except ferrothorn (who he may but I can't be bothered to run any calcs -_-) and the life orb varient KOs less but doesn't take as much rocks damage. At the moment rocks is your main counter to weavile (and it also helps with cloyster) so you need a spin blocker, a good choice would be sub/disable gengar who can even counter weavile if he switches in as gengar subs. I would replace starmie because you already habe enough special offensive power.

    Lastly I think that you need some priority to finish cloystir and dancers so maybe conkeldurr is an option over azumaril.
    Thank you. The team needs a spinner so starmie stays. Banded can't really do much since hardly exist and one they are locked into something I get a free hit or even kill with one of my pokes. I will look into Conkeldurr instead of azumaril as a sand check. I was kind of considering choice scarf politoad too, thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquadon View Post
    Something to consider: You could attempt a Choiced Azumarill if you're not doing the "Move Tutor Clause" (what?), which will power up that Aqua Jet and you could try taking out the Substitute for a powerful Superpower; not only would it be helpful for opposing Bulky Waters, but it has some nice SE hits that Waterfall might not have. Speaking of Waterfall, it might be a good idea to change that to Return or something, that way you can have the powerful Normal/Water combo at your disposal, being resisted by Empoleon and Ferrothorn only (this could work with both the Band OR the Sub set).
    That's an idea but I really wanted to make sure this team kept it's momentum so I didn't want choice items. It is still an idea though. Waterfall is incredibly powerful when I am behind a sub so I think ima keep it I'll try it too though.
    Last edited by 123fakestreet; 19th May 2011 at 10:58 PM.







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    Quote Originally Posted by 123fakestreet View Post
    DRAGONSTEEL!




    What Clauses?

    Item Clause [X]
    Wifi Clause [✓]
    Sleep Clause [✓]
    Freeze Clause [X]
    Species Clause [✓]
    Move Tutor Clause [X]
    Ubers Clause [✓]
    Legends Clause [X]


    A quick look



    In Depth




    Azumarill [BgBluga] @ Leftovers
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Huge Power
    Evs: 252 hp / 252 attk / 4 sp def
    Moves:
    -Substitute
    -Aqua Jet
    -Ice Punch
    -Focus Punch/ Superpower



    Latios [BluHrvst] @ Expert Belt/Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Levitate
    Evs: 252 sp attk / 252 spe / 4 sp def
    Moves:
    -Dragon PulseDraco Meteor
    -T-Bolt/Surf
    -Hidden Power [Fire]
    -Ice Beam/Surf


    Starmie [Serebii] @ Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 spe / 252 sp attk / 4 hp
    Moves:
    -Hydro Pump
    -Ice Beam
    -Thunderbolt
    -Rapid Spin


    Haxorus [Tbird] @ Salac Berry
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Spd/ 4 Atk
    Moves:
    -Swords Dance
    -Outrage
    -Taunt
    -Earthquake



    Magnezone [Fake] @ Leftovers
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 200 hp / 252 sp attk / 56 spe
    Moves:
    -Substitute
    -Signal Beam/Flash Cannon
    -Hidden Power [Ice]
    -Charge Beam



    Ferrothorn [Ragnarok] @ Leftovers
    Nature: Relaxed
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 248 Hp / 56 def / 204 sp def
    Moves:
    -Gyro Ball
    -Power Whip
    -Stealth Rock / Spikes
    -Leech Seed
    Changes in Bold
    GREAT TEAM FAKE I love it, ill explain the chages here

    1- Love the zone, just replaced T-bolt for Signal Beam for Psychics, or Flash Cannon as STAB. Since you already have the electric type attack, i figured 2 electric types arent that great, so I did that.

    2- Azumarill, great poke, but priorty Aqua Jet is all it needs since youre using Sub. Get the old sub-punch going or superpower, youre choice

    3- Latios, i love this expert belt set, and ill tell u y. Most people see Latios and think 3 things, Scarf, Specs or Life Orb. So, they switch or stay in, to try and see what item you are. Since Expert Belt has no recoil, theyll think youre scarfed/specs and get screwed over cause of expert belt. And this set has great coverage, hitting 10-17 types in pokemon for super effective damage

    4- Bulky Haxorus FTW. Max Spd so you can taunt slow pokes, and with salac, when youre hit down to range, SWEEPING TIME

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    Hmmmm interesting. Don't even try to change mine and Tbirds haxorus. He stays and that's an end of it. Latios has sub to ease prediction then lure/kill Scizor. As I only have one stab move I'll make it reliable thanks. When magnezone is facing something that isn't a steel type it will be behind a sub at +3 or more sp attk. Thunderbolt is a must bolt beam gives enough coverage. I like waterfall for beating reuniclus and smacking switch ins really hard I guess I can try it







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    Ferrothorn lols at cloyster so don't worry about it. Weavile can cause problems, but that's the whole point of Sub Latios. If I remember our discussion rightly, Latios is used to BAIT the likes of weavile and Scizor and then get rid of them with its powerful moves. If it uses after rocks, LO DPulse will annihilate Weavile. Just make sure you instantly sub when your bring latios out into play.

    If you're running sub Azumarill, might I suggest Focus Punch over waterfall. A pokémon that can give you some problems is Chansey and Co, you can switch in on 90% of their moves and freely sub with 404 HP You can then nail them and whoever else with Focus Punch. Let's say you switch in on chansey's anything and then subsistute. You proceed to focus punch them, regardless, if they stay in that's one wall down, if they switch in gengar expecting superpower/focus punch you can take that out for a handy 2HKO with Aqua jet. You switch him out and continue the rest of the match until they bring chansey/blissey back out and do the same as last time .
    Continuing on that note, most people expect CB azumarill, so chansey / blissey will protect on the first turn they see you meaning they can't protect on the next turn so they can't safely predict what you'll do next . This will also help with tyranitar who looks like he can be somewhat problematic at the moment.

    Bisharp can be problematic, however your sub users should be able to take him out quite handily. Sub punch Azumarill has the best chance to, anyway.

    If you see breloom on the opponent's team, keep latios alive. switch in Starmie as it tries to spore, then switch in Latios to take the focus punch, sub up and start hitting it with hidden power fire.

    Conkeldurr might be problematic also, but you should be able to take him out fairly easily if you play right.

    As long as you have a way to bait Garchomp into Magnezone then he shouldn't be too difficult to take out, either. Or, if all goes well you get to set up on him .

    Scarf Hydreigon might be an issue, however, baiting fire blast with Ferrothorn means you can switch in Azumarill / Latias and get a free sub.

    Lucario will give you trouble if it can get an SD in.

    Choice Scarf Mienshao will be tricky to get rid of

    Reuniclus is going to give you a lot of problems

    Hidden Power Fire Starmie will be a problem.

    CM virizion is going to be difficult, but smacking it around with Ice beams and such should help.

    I think that's it for threats on the threatlist. Like someone else said, Sub disable Gengar will really help you with the above problem pokes. It will play pretty much exactly the same role that Latios does now, but would function better. It would stop SD Lucario Sweeping you, and it would stop Reuniclus sweeping you.. and Virizion. Yeah, give Gengar a try over latios. It will still draw in Weavile and Scizor and will still be able to take them both out one way or the other.

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    I would like to note that your haxorus will be killed by any adamant sandstorm team excadrill because it is common knowledge that he is only effective after a SD and if u double up on DD u will get wrecked by quake stab. However azuma is one of the only adequate counters to excadrill and this would overall work well. Nice team!!

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    I love Azumarill so much! I think that Focus Punch would be better than Super Power as it can set up quite bulky substitutes to abuse Focus Punch, and Superpower is inconvenient when it causes an attack drop and you need to Aqua Jet or Ice Punch whatever comes in next and it won't be able to enough damage.

    I really like the Haxorus set, with Mold Breaker Two Moves are all it needs, as long as being locked into Outrage doesn't get taken advantage of by revenge killers, most notably Weavile.

    Some other threats that were mentioned are Stat Boosters, so maybe if you could fit Dragon Tail or Roar on your team somewhere, phazing could really help.

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    Okay okay I'll use focus punch! How can I patch up my reuniclus weaknes? I guess a strong ghost / bug would work well. Maybe I could just stuff hazards and use a bulky Scizor / FlinchRachi. Anyone think that's a good idea? Also I have been thinking about running scarftoad over azumaril though that would take all my priority away but it gives me weather controll which could be good. Also a sand teams counter is 90% of the time going to be chomp not exca I ruin chomp after getting another DD to outspend exca







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    How useful has the Haban Berry actually been? Scarf Sazandora / Latios OHKO you regardless and Scarf Garchomp / Haxorus will leave you standing with 10-20% after Stealth Rocks. Any offensive dragon (LO Garchomp, mixed Salamence) will OHKO regardless of the Berry. Even a -2 Latios will be bringing you as low as 1% if Stealth Rocks are down.

    To make that work I recommend either dropping Haban Berry for another item (Life Orb?) or simply run a LOT more bulk. Yache worked on Garchomp because nothing was getting STAB on it and the few Pokemon that could survive a hit from him weren't even investing in Special Attack. Even with Haban Berry you're still taking a powerful STAB hit from a Pokemon that has 125-147 (sp)attack. You can also drop Haban for a pinch Berry and run Substitute over Taunt.

    You can also drop Haxorus for a bulky DD Salamence or Dragonite. Both have FAR superior defenses and can run Fire Blast to deal with Skarmory / Ferrothorn. No, Taunt won't work.. you only do 32% tops with +1 Outrage. If you think Magnezone can beat them both first and you still want to run Haxorus then run something over Taunt. Possibly even Swords Dance (double dance), Substitute (useful when they clearly lack a dragon move) or Brick Break (to hit balloon steels). If you run Salamence you will have added support against physical Pokemon like Excadrill and Gyarados.


    Have you tried just running Choice Band Azumaril? It has Superpower to do 98% minimum to Chansey and it can actually pose a threat without needing a free turn.

    Since you run Magnezone is there any reason for HP Fire on Latios? Why not just run Calm Mind or Psyshock. Dropping HP Fire lets you outrun the vast majority of opposing Latios, giving you a check for it.

    If you get rid of HP Fire for Psyshock you can just get rid of Azumarill for a Specs Politoed. Politoed boosts Starmie, Latios and helps Ferrothorn / Magnezone by removing the Fire weakness and it puts pressure on sand teams. Hydro Pump hits SO HARD it can easily 2HKO Blissey after a round of Stealth Rocks. It lures in Ferrothorn too which your Magnezone can remove. Maybe Hydro Pump / Focus Blast / Ice Beam / HP Electric. Specs Hydro Pump will 2HKO Reuniclus even if it Calm Minds TWICE. It also has a very good chance to OHKO Tyranitar after Stealth Rocks.

    So..

    Specs Politoed over Azumarill.
    Possibly DD Salamence over Haxorus.

  19. #19
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    Have you consdered bulky DD gyarados? He can easily switch in on an earthquake aimed at magnezone the set up while the opponent switches due to intimidate (which I prefer to moxie) plus his electric weakness is covered by magnezone and ferrothorn. He is also a great counter to weavile.
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  20. #20

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    I agree with blue Harvest here i dont't see how Haban berry is effective... Overall I think this team is well built.

    Reunicleus might be a problem however. I am curious. How do you deal with it.

  21. #21
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    Jan 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    How useful has the Haban Berry actually been? Scarf Sazandora / Latios OHKO you regardless and Scarf Garchomp / Haxorus will leave you standing with 10-20% after Stealth Rocks. Any offensive dragon (LO Garchomp, mixed Salamence) will OHKO regardless of the Berry. Even a -2 Latios will be bringing you as low as 1% if Stealth Rocks are down.

    To make that work I recommend either dropping Haban Berry for another item (Life Orb?) or simply run a LOT more bulk. Yache worked on Garchomp because nothing was getting STAB on it and the few Pokemon that could survive a hit from him weren't even investing in Special Attack. Even with Haban Berry you're still taking a powerful STAB hit from a Pokemon that has 125-147 (sp)attack. You can also drop Haban for a pinch Berry and run Substitute over Taunt.

    You can also drop Haxorus for a bulky DD Salamence or Dragonite. Both have FAR superior defenses and can run Fire Blast to deal with Skarmory / Ferrothorn. No, Taunt won't work.. you only do 32% tops with +1 Outrage. If you think Magnezone can beat them both first and you still want to run Haxorus then run something over Taunt. Possibly even Swords Dance (double dance), Substitute (useful when they clearly lack a dragon move) or Brick Break (to hit balloon steels). If you run Salamence you will have added support against physical Pokemon like Excadrill and Gyarados.


    Have you tried just running Choice Band Azumaril? It has Superpower to do 98% minimum to Chansey and it can actually pose a threat without needing a free turn.

    Since you run Magnezone is there any reason for HP Fire on Latios? Why not just run Calm Mind or Psyshock. Dropping HP Fire lets you outrun the vast majority of opposing Latios, giving you a check for it.

    If you get rid of HP Fire for Psyshock you can just get rid of Azumarill for a Specs Politoed. Politoed boosts Starmie, Latios and helps Ferrothorn / Magnezone by removing the Fire weakness and it puts pressure on sand teams. Hydro Pump hits SO HARD it can easily 2HKO Blissey after a round of Stealth Rocks. It lures in Ferrothorn too which your Magnezone can remove. Maybe Hydro Pump / Focus Blast / Ice Beam / HP Electric. Specs Hydro Pump will 2HKO Reuniclus even if it Calm Minds TWICE. It also has a very good chance to OHKO Tyranitar after Stealth Rocks.

    So..

    Specs Politoed over Azumarill.
    Possibly DD Salamence over Haxorus.
    Ok thanks Blue -Throws entire idea for team out window- What kinda DD mence would I want, slightly bulky or just full on offensive DD with fire blast? I'll start editing now I think.







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  22. #22
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    Apr 2009
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    I'm not sure, anything will work. You can just go for the offensive Jolly max speed / attack salamence. You can keep Haxorus too but in terms of Dragon Dancing Salamence does it better. Run a lot more bulk if you want to run haban Hax. Don't worry about Excadrill, he will just 2HKO you if it switches in, it resists both your moves with its Balloon.

    A more important change I think is dropping Azumarill for a Specs Politoed. Your entire team bar Haxorus benefits from Rain and Politoed isn't useless. Specs Hydro Pump hits with 240% the power of your Azumarill's Waterfall!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    I'm not sure, anything will work. You can just go for the offensive Jolly max speed / attack salamence. You can keep Haxorus too but in terms of Dragon Dancing Salamence does it better. Run a lot more bulk if you want to run haban Hax. Don't worry about Excadrill, he will just 2HKO you if it switches in, it resists both your moves with its Balloon.

    A more important change I think is dropping Azumarill for a Specs Politoed. Your entire team bar Haxorus benefits from Rain and Politoed isn't useless. Specs Hydro Pump hits with 240% the power of your Azumarill's Waterfall!
    Yeah thanks, I'll add that now I have done the tests. Waaaaaay better







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