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Thread: You're Never Over - BW UU

  1. #1

    Default You're Never Over - BW UU

    [IMG]http://i55.*******.com/120tbp4.png[/IMG]
    You're Never Over - UU Hail
    [IMG]http://i55.*******.com/120tbp4.png[/IMG]

    Introduction
    The advent of Gen V UU created a metagame filled with a huge variety of deadly threats, many of which are incredibly overpowered, and capable of curbstomping half of the metagame. Then you have stuff like Chansey, Drought, Kyurem, Victini, stuff that the metagame is incredibly centralized around. In fact, nearly all of the teams commonly seen on the ladder are likely to have at least one of those few things on them.

    I made this team with the basis in mind of breaking all of the main common teams in the metagame. In other words, to build a team that could easily manage to systematically take apart opposing Hail offense, Drought offense, stall, and of course, the slightly rarer general non-weather offense teams. This inevitably led to me using some rather strange and gimmicky sets in the early making of this team, including Calm Mind + Toxic Espeon, Choice Specs Kingdra, and LO 4 Attacks Kirikizan, all of which played highly important roles in the original version of this team, leading to the team finally forming a sort of Balanced/Offensive nature, despite Kirikizan being replaced and some changes being made to the rest of the team.

    In terms of the success of this team, I've managed to hit ~#5 or so, at 1400+ CRE on the UU ladder as windong and windsong13, and currently rests at 1409 at #8 or so on the ladder. However, the team isn't really ideal for laddering, simply due to some of the strategies it employs (lures, specifically) and struggles a bit against the teams that have popped up later in the suspect period that an absurd amount of answers to Kyurem.

    So, as the suspect period draws to a close, I've seen it fit to post this team, to see if there are any thoughts on how I could improve it a bit, and I would definitely be happy if people could offer some advice!
    [IMG]http://i55.*******.com/120tbp4.png[/IMG]
    Team at a Glance
    [IMG]http://i55.*******.com/120tbp4.png[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://i52.*******.com/npl54j.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i55.*******.com/2v8g8qg.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i51.*******.com/2dvsd8p.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i53.*******.com/2li7m05.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i51.*******.com/2mmesmc.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i51.*******.com/2crk9hs.png[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://i55.*******.com/120tbp4.png[/IMG]

    ~The days are cold livin’ without you
    The nights are long, I’m growing older~

    [IMG]http://i52.*******.com/npl54j.png[/IMG]
    Abomasnow@Choice Scarf
    Timid | Snow Warning
    24 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spd
    ~
    - Blizzard
    - Grass Knot / Wood Hammer
    - Focus Blast
    - Ice Beam
    ~
    Abomasnow arguably plays the most crucial role of any member of my team, in setting up Hail. Hail is extremely useful in the current UU metagame, with hardly anything immune, and more importantly, nullifying the speed boost on Chlorophyll sweepers in the sun, effectively allowing me to beat Drought, and providing passive damage against Chansey. Hail also combines well with Toxic Spikes, allowing me to force out stuff like Milotic, who walls a large portion of my team. Finally, Hail allows me to hit Blizzards at 100% accuracy, effectively meaning that I can spam it after I've removed the opponent's Ice resists (or hell, half the time before I get rid of their Ice resists and just muscle through them between Abomasnow/Kingdra/Kyurem). Abomasnow is also the closest thing I have to a lead, what with team preview making set leads no longer necessary, but to be honest, I rarely lead with him. However, Abomasnow has the useful ability to force opponents who're running sun teams to lead with Vulpix, meaning that I can lead with Kingdra for a free KO.

    The given EVSpread allows me to outspeed everything up to neutral natured base 115s, so all I really lose out on is outspeeding Azelf, who I'm not outspeeding even with max speed EVs. I run max Special Attack for the Blizzard 3HKO on Offensive Kyurem (yeah, 3HKO, Kyurem is absurd) or the 2HKO with Focus Blast. The rest of the EVs are placed into HP, with four placed into Special Defense to let me switch in on Stealth Rock four times. Choice Scarf is honestly really cool, and I'm pretty much unwilling to switch it, as it lets me easily get surprise KOs on stuff like Sawsbuck that thinks it can stay in and KO me despite the weather switching. I've been pretty content with the current moveset, but I've been considering Wood Hammer over Grass Knot, for dealing with Crocune a bit better.

    ~We'll walk this road together, through the storm
    Whatever weather, cold or warm
    Just lettin you know that, you're not alone
    Holla if you feel like you've been down the same road (same road)~

    [IMG]http://i55.*******.com/2v8g8qg.jpg[/IMG]
    Kingdra@Choice Specs
    Modest | Swift Swim
    252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spd
    ~
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hydro Pump
    - Blizzard
    - Surf
    ~
    Kingdra finds its place on my team as my one and only Fire resist, something that's pretty much required in the current meta, with Victini and Arcanine around every twist and turn. Kingdra switches on both of them with ease, sporting the 4x resist to Fire, and very nice typing in general, to be honest. In addition, unlike all the other bulky Waters available to me -- most notably Quagsire, Gastrodon, Slowbro, and Milotic, all of which are relatively common, Kingdra doesn't detract from the offensive pace of the team the way those three would. Having tested the team with all four of them, Kingdra is honestly the best fit by far.

    However, absorbing Fire attacks is by far not the only thing that Kingdra's useful for. Specsdra is one of the best holepunchers in UU right now, and is almost always responsible for starting off my battles at essentially 6 - 5 my favor. I lure out an answer to Abomasnow, usually something that can also take on DD Kingdra, it is worthwhile to note, and then hit it in the face with either a Choice Specs Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor. I'm almost always OHKOing standard Escavelier and Hitmontop that come in to deal with Abomasnow and dealing around 70 - 80% to Eviolite Vulpix, who either stays in to burn me anticipating a DD set, or switches to a sun sweeper who's destroyed by the incoming Specs Draco Meteor.

    Sadly, Kingdra's one downfall is that she does lack bulk, which sadly isn't great because my team has no recovery. An intelligent opponent also won't spam V-Generate with Victini early in the game, often meaning that Kingdra's forced to eat a couple of U-Turns, which add up pretty quickly. Also being vulnerable to all of the entry hazards hurts Kingdra a bit, seeing as I have no spinner, and am entirely relying on Espeon to Reflect back hazards.

    ~Too late for the other side
    Caught in a chase
    25 to life~

    [IMG]http://i51.*******.com/2dvsd8p.png[/IMG]
    Nidoqueen@Leftovers
    Bold | Poison Point
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    ~
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic Spikes
    ~
    Nidoqueen is the main member of the team's defensive backbone, and basically the reason I don't get swept by half of the phyiscally based threats in the metagame. Heracross, Escavelier, Hitmontop, hell, even defensive Arcanine are all handled by Nidoqueen. I even can take a CB V-Generate from Victini if I'm at full HP, letting me proceed to set up Rocks or KO it with Earth Power. Nidoqueen also provides key support for my main offensive core of Abomasnow/Kingdra/SubKyurem in the form of Toxic Spikes, which lets those guys break through Slowking, Slowbro, Milotic, and of course, the pink blob herself, Chansey. Toxic Spikes also help me deal with stuff like opposing SubKyurem and StallBreaker Mew, both of whom are a bit of a problem for the team, as I normally have to pivot around a lot or sacrifice something to beat them if I don't have TSpikes up.

    Nidoqueen's coolest point though is probably the ability to switch in on the premier Rapid Spinner of the tier, Hitmontop, and I can wear him down by setting up hazards as he spins and inevitably gets poisoned after a few turns. Combined with Hail and/or Life Orb damage, as a fair amount of Hitmontop are running LO Technitop sets so as to better deal with Kyurem. As you may have noticed by this point, Nidoqueen does subtract from the offensive momentum of the team, and while that's a slight problem, I honestly prefer losing the tempo of the match to having to use Nidoking, as the difference in bulk between the two is huge, and using Nidoking would leave me extremely vulnerable to scarf Heracross and Escavelier.

    ~No apologies, nah suckers I'm not sorry
    You can all sue me, y'all could be the cause of me
    No apologies, not even acknowledging you at all
    'till I get a call that god's coming~

    [IMG]http://i53.*******.com/2li7m05.png[/IMG]
    Espeon@Leftovers
    Timid | Magic Mirror
    232 HP / 24 SpA / 252 Spd
    ~
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fight]
    - Calm Mind
    - Toxic
    ~
    Espeon makes a debut on my team, keeping the field clear of hazards, which is incredibly important in allowing my central core of sweepers, all of whom are hit by all the entry hazards (and two of whom are hit super effective by Rocks). Espeon is also my team's greatest weapon against stall, which will struggle to predict correctly against me, and will be taking a risk setting hazards until they've gotten rid of Espeon. Meanwhile I can safely set up Calm Mind boosts against the majority of most common stall teams. In addition, while a Rapid Spinner may be the superior option, just in case I make a rather foolish move that causes the opponent to be allowed to set Rocks up. However, no common Rapid Spinners can easily take repeated hits from fighting types, or manage to survive scarf Blizzards from opposing Kyurem.

    The EVs and moves are weird, I admit that. Really weird, in fact, but they all have their uses. Toxic helps me wear down Specially bulky Mew, who can be a bit of a problem for my team if I haven't managed to set up TSpikes yet, or they were spun/absorbed away. Toxic also puts Chansey in a bit of a dilemma - I can weaken Chansey to the turn just before they're about to heal then switch out, and bring in Heracross when they're around 50-60%. This lets me force out Chansey, who's taking heavy damage upon entry, and can then be broken down by another member of the team with relative ease. The EVs I run are enough to take two Close Combats from Scarfcross, iirc, and also let me take three Seismic Tosses from Chansey or Night Shades from Mew and live, even with Hail up. I plug the remaining EVs into Special Attack for hitting Kyurem harder and OHKOing bulky Kirikizan with Hidden Power.

    ~You show me nothing but hate
    You ran me into the ground
    But what comes around goes around
    I don’t need you no more~

    [IMG]http://i51.*******.com/2mmesmc.png[/IMG]
    Heracross@Choice Scarf
    Adamant | Guts
    44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spd
    ~
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit
    ~
    Heracross is basically the glue of the team. He hits ridiculously hard, especially if I can manage to get statused, and outspeeds a huge amount of the metagame. This lets me revenge pretty much everything that's not boosted in speed, and also lets Heracross play a key factor in cleaning up lategame. In addition, Heracross curbstomps like half of the meta (yeah, he's one of those Pokes) and a huge amount of teams out there are ridiculously unprepared for dealing with STAB Megahorns and Close Combats. And the combination is practically unresisted, and the majority of the stuff that resists Megahorn and CC is either 2HKO'd by Megahorn anyways (Mismagius) or handled pretty well by the rest of the team. Finally, it's really helpful that Kingdra lures in Hitmontop and (lol) some bulky Arcanine on sun teams pretty well, and neither of them is able to stand up to Heracross's assaults after eating the specs Draco Meteor.

    I run a pretty standard spread, enough speed to outrun Aerodactyl or something like that and take it out with Stone Edge, and in general Heracross is just really good in the meta right now and there's no reason not to use him.

    ~So bat ya eyelashes, and keep winking and blowin' kisses
    'Cause your flirting with death, I'm destroying your livelihood
    I ain't just hurting your rep, I catch a flow and get goin'
    No remorse, I'm showin', they slowin' for no one~

    [IMG]http://i51.*******.com/2crk9hs.png[/IMG]
    Kyurem@Leftovers
    Modest | Pressure
    52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spd
    ~
    - Blizzard
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    ~
    Kyurem is the most broken son of a ***** in all of UU. Victini is nothing to this guy. Neither is Drought. Heck, nothing is really. He's got a BST of 660, defensive stats that rival those of dedicated walls, and hits like a frickin' freight train. Blizzard 2HKO's basically everything not named Chansey (and physically defensive sets take ~25%+ easily) that doesn't resist. Dragon Pulse and Focus Blast cover everything else basically, Focus Blast hitting all Steels common in UU for a 2HKO at worst, with Dragon Pulse 2HKOing basically everything else. Substitute helps me abuse Toxic Spikes to their fullest, and easily lets me wear down stuff that actually tries to wall me. Some other cool things include the EVspread, which lets me get 101 hp Substitutes, meaning that Mew and Deo-D aren't breaking my Substitutes with Night Shade, and Chansey isn't breaking them with Seismic Toss either. The loss in speed doesn't really matter as I only really send Kyurem in lategame, when I know that I have a pretty clean sweep available.

    My entire team supports Kyurem really really well, with Kingdra luring in many Pokemon that attempt to revenge Kyurem, Toxic Spikes from Nidoqueen allowing me to sweep past Chansey, and Espeon helping wear down Chansey and reflecting all the entry hazards that heavily damage Kyurem. Finally, Abomasnow of course sets hail up, allowing me to annihilate half the meta with Blizzard. Oh yeah and we should ban Kyurem from BW UU.

    [IMG]http://i55.*******.com/120tbp4.png[/IMG]
    Credits
    [hide]Delta 2777 - Delta helped me a ton with making this team, which was really cool of him, and encouraged me a ton all through the laddering period.
    Zeph - You're one of the coolest guys out there, and you helped me a ton with perfecting some little glitches in the team, and finishing it up.
    PttP - You're new username sucks change it back. Also you're a cocky and arrogant 14 year old but awesome and can actually back your talk up, so who caressssssssss!
    Eternal - I talked a lot with you about Gen V UU, and you're a really cool guy and I was glad to finally talk with you intelligently rather than just trolling Teamuber like I used to~
    Folgorio - Foololgrio more like. But whatever!!!! You seem to be a pretty cool guy and not nearly as insane as PttP, so it was cool to talk with you a bit lately!
    #genvuu - All you guys were really helpful in making this team, even if it was just random dumb comments from Snunch most of the time! (Nah kidding, it was only dumb comments from Snunch some of the time. Most of them were from PttP. xD )
    #moof - Joel, Muffin, Solace <3[/hide]


    Also listen to Eminem music cause it's really good! (The name of the RMT comes from the Eminem song "You're Never Over")

    End

  2. #2

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    The green background on this site is really lame / reserved for threatlist

  3. #3
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    you can change the background js. this team is good, i remember losing to it via luck many many times however. anyway kyurem will be banned and espeon will be ou soon so theres not much to say really. could try rd kingdra > specs but it it probably wouldn't change much at all and i just wanted to make this post look longer.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regarde View Post
    anyway kyurem will be banned and espeon will be ou soon so theres not much to say really.
    doubt it .
    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    They do work FOR the Marines, supplying intelligence to them and acting as guards for the Gate of Justice. Heck, if they didn't work for the Marines, why would Aokiji give them the power to order a Buster Call? He just hands that power out to random people?
    this guy thinks CP9 works for the marines

  5. #5
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    wow epic, i heard from you from d0nut and this team shows me why he respects you

    just a few changes

    on ambombasnow, since most threats are either light/resists grass, why not try energy ball, this way you wont need to change the EV spread while retataining max sp atk

    on kingdra, try hp fire/fight over surf, i saw where it says you have no trouble with escaveier, but hp fire is more reliable and OHKOs escaveir and other pokes in UU with a 4x weakness to fire (ferroseed is one that i come across often) and a STAB hydro pump is a 150 base power move after calulations, so its really not that better, just adds a little more diversity to kingdra

    instead of nidoqueen why not try a evolite tentacool, with this set

    tentacool@ evolite
    252 HP/252 DEF/4 SP.ATK
    BOLD NATURE (+ def, - atk)
    liquid ooze

    rapid spin
    toxic spikes
    scald
    knock off/confuse ray

    this set works just as good (defensivly) and provides your team with the spinner it needs

    for espeon, try using xatu(yeah i know, more stealh rock weakness, bare with me please)

    here is two sets that can help your team

    xatu@leftovers
    252 HP/252 SPD(or 252 DEF) 4 in what you didnt invest in
    if max spd timid(+spd, - atk)
    if max def bold (+ def, -atk)
    magic bounce

    MAX SPEED SET
    thunder wave
    confuse ray
    calm mind/hp fight/fire
    psychic

    MAX DEF SET

    wish
    protect
    calm mind/hp fire/fight
    psychic

    one is para-fusion, the other is some sort of recovery for your team, but most importantly, both sets reflect entry hazards

    as for the rest of your team, dont change a thing, but if you do, flame orb on heracross, though i like choice scarf better

    excellent team, hope i can face it one day
    Last edited by TrollFreak; 2nd June 2011 at 8:23 AM.

    I chase the dream, not the competition.


  6. #6
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    Kingdra is OU, some servers even made it uber.
    Always up for a battle! PM me!

  7. #7

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    No, Kingdra's UU on Smogon bro. They went with Aldaron's proposal rather than banning the abusers.

    @DragonMaster123:

    Energy Ball doesn't help me with the main reason I run a grass move on Abomasnow; Suicune, so I'll stick with GK / Wood Hammer there.

    Ferroseed isn't really all that common - hell, I think that Snunch is the only person who ever ran it, hahaha. I'll consider HP Fire, but I really don't want to lose speed ties (I know that other players have started using the Kingdra set I run) and honestly I'd rather be spamming surf because Ferrothorn is free setup for Espeon anyhow. I'll test it just to see how well it works though!

    Tentacool can't set rocks, otherwise I'd definitely use it. As is, I'll definitely test it out.

    OK, there's only one problem with using Xatu, which is the main reason I've been using Espeon instead this whole time. It detracts from the offensive pace of the team too much, and this team can't afford to lose the pace of the match for long, since I don't really have the raw power to get it back with anything other than Kyurem and Heracross, who're incapable of muscling through some stuff, sadly.

    Thanks for the rate!

  8. #8
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    Heracross is BL and looks to be going into OU with its DW ability + i dont think kyurem is UU i think its BL or OU + kingdra is OU

  9. #9

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    Ugh guys can you not comment if you have no idea what you're talking about.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3446903

    Heracross is UU.
    Kyurem is UU.
    Kingdra is UU.

    To be fair, Kyu's being voted BL after this suspect phase, but neither Heracross nor Kingdra is BL or OU or likely to be anywhere near there.

  10. #10
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    its 3 against 1 i think were right and im with T100

  11. #11
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    Kingdra's only Uber on PO, and it's only testing. The rest of the Pokes are DEFINITELY UU. And this team looks fantastic, no obvious holes that I can see.
    My Youtube Channel is finally up!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Dooplissity

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    No, Kingdra's UU on Smogon bro. They went with Aldaron's proposal rather than banning the abusers.

    @DragonMaster123:

    Energy Ball doesn't help me with the main reason I run a grass move on Abomasnow; Suicune, so I'll stick with GK / Wood Hammer there.

    Ferroseed isn't really all that common - hell, I think that Snunch is the only person who ever ran it, hahaha. I'll consider HP Fire, but I really don't want to lose speed ties (I know that other players have started using the Kingdra set I run) and honestly I'd rather be spamming surf because Ferrothorn is free setup for Espeon anyhow. I'll test it just to see how well it works though!

    Tentacool can't set rocks, otherwise I'd definitely use it. As is, I'll definitely test it out.

    OK, there's only one problem with using Xatu, which is the main reason I've been using Espeon instead this whole time. It detracts from the offensive pace of the team too much, and this team can't afford to lose the pace of the match for long, since I don't really have the raw power to get it back with anything other than Kyurem and Heracross, who're incapable of muscling through some stuff, sadly.

    Thanks for the rate!
    lolz, ok then use wood hammer then (im on my NDS atm, ill edit/post again with new EV's) it will deal with cune much better than grass knot

    as for tentacool, im on my NDS, but ill see if i can find a poke with rapid spin, toxic spikes, and rocks(i doubt it, but wtf, ill try)

    for uberheracross and T100, please check your teirs, it just wastes space (im on NDS, it loads pages SLOWLY )if you dont know the teirs

    I chase the dream, not the competition.


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    Ugh guys can you not comment if you have no idea what you're talking about.
    Seriously guys, if you don't know what you're talking about please don't post. It doesn't help the thread maker at all and its infraction worthy if you repeatedly do that.

    Well that kind of applies to me in UU but one thing that sticks out is your seemingly large weakness to Kyuremu. A Specs set OHKOs your entire team with Draco Meteor and Scarf can still 1-2HKO everything. I really don't see an easy fix for this without altering your team in a negative way. Maybe drop Heracross for a Scarf Cobalion, but then you would lose a ton of offensive force and you're still probably 2HKOed by Draco Meteor

    Well cool team either way. Sorry I couldn't help.. at all.

  14. #14
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    ok epic eevee, heres is the EVs for Abomasnow

    164 Atk / 116 SpA / 228 Spe

    As for the Entry Hazard poke, here is some pokemon i came across

    Pineco @ Evolite
    Sturdy
    Careful (+ SpDef, - Sp Atk)
    252 HP/ 252 Sp Def/ 4 Def

    Stealh Rock
    Toxic Spikes
    Rapid Spin
    Bug Bite/Earthquake

    Its A mini Forretrss, but its bulkier. I didnt use Gyro Ball since Pineco is just Bug, and its the only poke with TS, SR, and RS so why the hell not.

    I chase the dream, not the competition.


  15. #15

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    Pineco doesn't offer the amount of bulk i need, tbh, and has a pretty poor set of resistances, otherwise i'd consider it. As of right now, I'm pretty content without a spinner though, and if i chose to use one, it'd probably be claydol.

    And yeah Blue Harvest, Kyurem is broken as **** and it'll be gone soon, thank god, and specs Kyu does damage the team a bit, but i usually can force it out with my own Kyurem if they don't know I'm sub yet and then get a sub and kill something, and then we sort of trade kills for a while. It's a matter of preserving Heracross. Rocks and TSpikes help a ton there.

  16. #16
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    Kyurem definitely does not belong in UU. In my opinion, he's Uber, a counterpart to Reshiram and Zekrom. He has more signature moves than any other pokemon, and he's legendary! How could anyone think he's UU?
    If you're creative, don't copy and paste this into your signature (Started by 3.14kachu).

  17. #17
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    obviously a good team.

    consider hp fire > fighting on espeon, it hits escavalier / durant !!! much, much harder and is probably more valuable because stuff like rhyperior is gonna rape you anyway. idk what's worth hitting with hp fighting > fire but from my experience probably not much.

    really the only thing wrong with this team is that you named it after an eminem song.
    <-----

  18. #18

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    Nice capitalizing on Kyurem (while it's still allowed). The only thing I see being threatening really is sand stream Hippopotas which would pause the hail, (which I'm seeing more and more of lately in UU). Has revenge-killing Nidoking been posing any problem (I'd imagine Kingdra would always answer)?

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