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Thread: Community POTW #25

  1. #26
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    Type: Water/Ground
    Ability: Oblivious/Anticipation/Hydration (Dream World)
    Base Stats: 110 HP / 78 Atk / 73 Def / 76 SAtk / 71 SDef / 60 Spd
    Pros: High HP, Dragon Dance
    Cons: Overall mediocre stats

    Whiscash @Leftovers/Life Orb
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    Ability: Hydration
    -Earthquake
    -Waterfall
    -Stone Edge
    -Dragon Dance

    Whiscash is the only Water/Ground type that learns Dragon Dance and should use it to stand out from Swampert, Quagsire, Gastrodon, and Seismitoad. Dragon Dance boosts your low Speed and mediocre Attack so you can stand a chance of sweeping. Earthquake and Waterfall have great coverage and Stone Edge covers Flying opponents. Hydration is the best ability since it instantly heals any status effects as long as it's raining. This means Whiscash is best used on a Rain team.

    Also...

    Can the next POTW PLEASE be a 5th gen Poke?
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  2. #27
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    I was actually hoping for Camerupt, but hey, we have no say in it. So, why say.

    Pertaining to topic; Whiscash is still UU, right? I mean, people are talking about things like Kingdra being UU this gen. Whiscash compared to Kingdra would mean if Kingdra was UU, Whiscash would be RU or NU. Whiscash is an altogether OK Pokemon, but it doesn't work like everyone seems to want. However, make use of DD and RainRest, with a moveset like Earthquake, Rest, Dragon Dance, Waterfall+Hydration with max HP and EVs in Atk and Speed and he can "Get By". Whiscash is Rated equally to its performance, and it fills very little. Oh, and I hate Whiscash. Just like I hate Mr. Mime. That kind of hate.
    Last edited by WeatherEffectRain; 20th June 2011 at 11:19 PM.


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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeatherEffectRain View Post
    Pertaining to topic; Whiscash is still UU, right? I mean, people are talking about things like Kingdra being UU this gen. Whiscash compared to Kingdra would mean if Kingdra was UU, Whiscash would be RU or NU.
    We'd be binding a lot of pokemon to RU and NU if Kingdra was a standard. Kingdra has a nice amount of power and all, but it's really straightforward. Whiscash has a different role and moveset from Kingdra, which makes it quite a bit different. Different typing, a defensively oriented ability, a more diverse movepool, and a better STAB in Earthquake. They can handle differently if you go beyond the Dragon Dance sets, so it's unfair to judge Whiscash solely on that one role (Which even then, Whiscash still has the coverage factor and status immunity through Hydration on its side to give it an edge over Kingdra for that (Whilst Kingdra just has more outright power through Outrage)).
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365pokemon View Post
    Just to let people know, hydration+dragon dance is illegal, and I've seen a couple people try to run this (hydration=dream world, dragon dance=egg move)
    Dream World abilities are inherited from mothers and Egg Moves are inherited from fathers. There's nothing illegal about it.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wunderkind View Post
    Woah! Look at that HP stat! 110 isn't too shabby! Now let's take a look at those other... ohh.... um... yeah....

    The best set probably is Hydration+Rest+Dragon Dance with rain support, but that's already been said a lot... but honestly, that's about it...

    Here's kind of a gimmicky set that could be really good. Plus, I have a pretty good name for it

    Restless Sleeper
    @
    Ability: Hydration
    Nature: Adamant (I guess)
    EVs: spread it between Attack, Speed, and HP
    -Rest
    -Flail
    -Endure
    -Dragon Dance

    Basically, you DD-up, Endure when you think you're close to dying , then Flail like you're life depends on it! (which it kinda does). Afterwards, Rest up if you can, and if you have rain support (which you should), you'll be rady for another round.

    Not entirely sure on item right now. Maybe Quick Claw? :P
    The flail/endure trick doesn't work to well...I'd say Earthquake and Stone Edge.
    Waterfall and Earthquake for STAB, and Bounce to take care of Grass-types.
    Bounce isn't usually to good...Stone Edge has better coverage, and grass types aren't too common, but you do have a good point, best not to be walled by Virizion/Breloom. Plus, it also has good coverage with ground.

    It's walled by Ferrothorn anyway though. I think that in the final sets, it should be Stone Edge and bounce as the same options.

    However, bounce/hydration are an illegal combo.
    Whiscash @ Zoom Lens
    Abilty: Hydration
    Nature: Sassy
    EVs: 128 Att/128 SpA/196 Def/60 SpD
    - Surf
    - Earthquake/Fissure
    - Bounce
    - HP Ice
    Fissure isn't reliable, even with that item. Mixed don't always have to be 2 att and 2 sp.at. It could be Dragon Dance/WaterFall/Earthquake/HP Ice.

    And HP ice already hits grass types, so Bounce is unneeded. Hydration/Bounce is an illegal combo to.
    Whiscash@Leftovers
    Sassy - Hydration
    252 HP - 176 Def - 80 Sp.Def
    -Amnesia
    -Rest
    -Scald
    -Earthquake/Magnitude
    Bold, 252 def, and Earth Power could also be an option. Earth Power is the Earthquake of the special attacker world, almost the same power with a chance to drop sp.def. It still looks like a nice set though.
    @Wunderkind=Try this.
    Whiscash@Focus Sash
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Hydration
    EVs:252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
    Moves: Dragon Dance
    Flail
    Spark
    Aqua Tail
    Spark is weak, you could use Water fall to, and flail is unreliable. Try once with DD/Earthquake/Stone Edge/Waterfall or Aqua tail.
    Just to let people know, hydration+dragon dance is illegal, and I've seen a couple people try to run this (hydration=dream world, dragon dance=egg move)
    4th/3rd gen move+ Hydration is illegal. DW ability+Egg move isn't.
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  6. #31
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    Whiscash is a beast. It's blue. It's smiling. And it has whiskers. With passable offense, decent bulk, and access to key moves like Dragon Dance, Whiscash is a perfect example of an underrated threat of UU. Although Whiscash seems to be outclassed by Feraligatr in an offensive role, it has some advantages, including its significantly larger special bulk and Ground typing. Similarly, it has advantages over Quagsire and Gastrodon due to the fact that it can play a much more offensive role than those two are capable of. Thanks to hydration, it now can set up easily and heal off any statuses, namely sleep, as you will be resting a lot. Even with all of this, Whiscash still has issues with a great deal of common Pokémon, including the omnipresent ferrothorn. However, given a significant amount of support from its teammates, along with an opportunity to set up, Whiscash can be a fearsome offensive threat that is capable of plowing through well-built teams.


    Abilities:

    Oblivious- Grants immunity to infatuation and Captivate. Don't use. Ever.
    Anticipation- Alerts the Pokémon of certain dangerous moves. This isn't really that useful but if you truly desire..
    Hydration- Cures any status ailment that the Pokémon has at the end of each turn when it is raining. This is the way to go. Always. Rest+Hydration is amazing.

    Invincible Dragon Fish

    Whiscash @ Leftovers/Life Orb
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) / Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest
    - Earthquake / Stone Edge / Zen Headbutt / Spark
    - Waterfall


    You switch in on one of its resistances, then Dragon Dance. Now that you are faster than the opponent, you can Rest to 100% HP, and wake up thanks to Hydration immediately. Waterfall does some impressive damage to anything that doesn't resist it, and gets "double STAB" due to the rain's power boost. Coming off of 560 attack (assuming you got in 2 dragon dances), waterfall can 1-2HKO a majority of the current OU metagame.

    The last moves are here for coverage. Earthquake is the most recommended move due to STAB and its naturally high base power, but this would leave you wide open for flying types (Dragon/Flying types to be more specific, and also gyarados :P), who will use you to set up as you switch out or foolishly stay in. Stone Edge is an option if you want to hit those pokemon super effectively, and has a nice base power and a good crit rate. Zen Headbutt is a decent move that gets impressive coverage with waterfall, but you can use spark if your team reeeeeally hates gyarados. Leftovers means recovery, life orb means you can hit stuff harder. It's all up to you.

    I'm Not Tired..

    Whiscash @ Life Orb
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) / Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake / Stone Edge / Zen Headbutt / Spark
    - Earthquake / Stone Edge / Zen Headbutt / Spark
    - Waterfall

    Self-explanitory: No rest, all attacking.
    This set is amazing if you can play it right.


    OTHER OPTIONS

    Outside of Dragon Dance....

    -A Choice Band set can be utilized, but even with the Choice Band boost, Whiscash is noticeably weak.
    -A special attacking set consisting of Hydro Pump, Earth Power, Ice Beam, and Hidden Power Grass can be used, but due to Whiscash's lackluster Special Attack stat, this is gimmicky at best.
    -Rock Slide can be used over Stone Edge if you prefer the extra accuracy over power.
    -Substitute can help stop status problems if it's not raining, but... just, no.


    PARTNERS

    Politoed's number one. Infinite rain for the hydration bonus? Yes please. Since you're probably running Whiscash on a rain team, [I]Starmie[I] is an excellent partner. It has access to both thunderbolt and ice beam, which allows it to take down those pesky dragon/flying pokemon and gyarados. A pokemon that can handle ferrothorn is appreciated, although this may be difficult to do on a rain team. Hydreigon works well with whiscash, as the two can hit everything in the metagame hard. Hydreigon also fits nicely on a rain team as it gets surf. A trick user helps with ferrothorn as well. Magnezone is also a great option- it can trap ferrothorn and use it to set up a substitute and fire away hidden power fires/charge beams.

    COUNTERS:

    Several Pokemon can threaten Whiscash but the foremost problems are bulky Grass- and Water-types, both of which take almost nothing from Whiscash's attacks and can KO back with a super effective Grass-type attack or stall him out, respectively. Tangrowth, Venusaur, and Milotic are excellent examples of such Pokemon due to their natural bulk and decent offensive prowess; Sceptile is also a great counter since it can outpace even a Speed-boosted Whiscash and KO with a Grass-type attack. Weezing can haze any boosts you pile up and make your life miserable. Ferrothorn's the biggest pain of them all: resists earthquake, tanks physical hits, OHKO'S you all day, every day. If you opt to use earthquake, Dragon/Flyers are also solid counters, as is gyarados, who can also intimidate away one boost.

    Remember, if Wishcash can't beat something, just stall with Hydration+Rest.


    Whiscash should only be used on a rain team. Rain gives waterfall some serious fire power after a few dragon dances. Oh yeah, and hydration.
    Last edited by Suspence; 21st June 2011 at 9:13 AM.

  7. #32
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    Well seeing as all of the dragon dance sets have been or will be covered I'll do a set that allows whishcash to be an effective special wall.

    I CAN DO IT TOO JELLICENT!
    Nature: Impish
    EV's: 252 special defense 252 HP 6 defense
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    Amnesia
    Rest/Toxic
    Waterfall/Earthquake
    Zen Headbutt/Spark/Waterfall/Earthquake/Toxic

    Amnesia is the move that makes this set possible sharply raising Sp defense
    Rest is for if you are running a rain team instant recovery obviously
    Toxic is for if you DON'T want recovery
    Waterfall is STAB Earthquake is also STAB its your choice here
    The final slot really does depend on the rest of the set and HOW you want your whiscash to run Zen headbutt gets decent coverage overall Spark hit Bulky waters so jellicent doesnt come and stop you and i've already covered the other moves.

    Just for the hell of it I'll post MY d-dance set with out an explanation its pretty self explanatory
    ability: hydration
    Item: Leftovers/life orb/electric gem
    Nature: impish/careful
    EV's: 252 HP, 252 in your boosted defense stat 6 attack
    Dragon dance
    Substitute
    Spark/Earthquake/stone edge
    Waterfall
    Moveset extrordanaire just ask if you want assistance
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  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Bold, 252 def, and Earth Power could also be an option. Earth Power is the Earthquake of the special attacker world, almost the same power with a chance to drop sp.def. It still looks like a nice set though.
    Concerning this, I would agree that max Def is an option as Amnesia makes up for the missing EVs. And while Scald can easily cover the Defense stat with it's burn rate, it's understandable to pack the EVs defensively, especially considering you wouldn't want to accidentally Burn a Guts pokemon. Then again, most Guts users usually have a status item to set it off, and with Amnesia and Scald both covering up his defenses, an even defensive spread is still ideal.

    Your Earth Power suggestion is still viable, although suggesting Bold to disallow Earthquake is a little discouraging. Whiscash's offensive stats are nearly equal, having a little more Atk than Sp.Atk, by two points. Plus, he's not running any offensive EVs, but there's a significant power drop in switching to Earth Power, regardless of it's possible chance to lower Sp.Def. In this case, running a Speed lowering nature isn't much of a consequence since Whiscash is so slow already.

    However, the alternate EV spread suggestion is an interesting alteration to the set. It ought to be considered in the final POTW if this set makes it through.

  9. #34
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    4th/3rd gen move+ Hydration is illegal. DW ability+Egg move isn't.
    I'm new to dream world abilities so how do you get them together? Sorry I just assumed that you could only get the abilities off the site.

    Oh and does anyone want to give an opinion on my sand dollar set?
    Here it is again:

    Sand Dollar


    Whiscash@Leftovers /w/Anticipation
    Ev's: 252 Spe, 172 Hp, 84 Spa
    Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Attack)

    ~Whirlpool
    ~Substitute
    ~Protect
    ~Toxic/Dragon Dance

    This set MUST be used in sandstorm (to rack up residual damage). Ev's for 101 Hp subs and max speed as well as slightly good special attack for whirlpool. This set is basically this guys heatran set except imported onto whiscash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=574Mig49Chw.
    (Copy/Paste everything he says). It's only 5.5 minutes, so please take the time to watch it, as it really explains this set. However, there is one difference. You can run dragon dance over toxic on this whiscash to increase speed, as speed is the most important part of this set, as you must be able to outspeed your opponents. You could also baton pass into this guy. Overall, I really like this set and hope you will all try it.
    Last edited by 365pokemon; 21st June 2011 at 1:48 PM.

  10. #35
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    Until now, I never really payed any attention to Whiscash. It has only decent stats, except for its hp. Its attack and speed are too low to be a sweeper, its defenses too low to be a wall, so the only choice left is an hp-based sponge-type thing. It has a double weakness to grass, which is a common type in the lower tiers. It has a very typical water moveset, however, it does have dragon dance, zen headbutt, and spark (which no other water type but Lantern has). Not only that, but it has hydration, pairing up nicely with rest. I'm not a huge fan of it, but I'll see what I can do.

    Wreaking Havoc on the Battlefield
    - Earthquake
    - Surf
    - Blizzard
    - Rain Dance
    Ability: Hydration
    Item: Life Orb
    EVs and Natures: Quiet (+sp att, - spd)
    252 sp att, 192 hp, 64 att

    Basically, with this moveset, it will try to kill anything that steps foot on a double or triple battlefield. Quiet is for Surf and Blizzard. You want hp and sp attack to survive the longest, and Rain Dance helps for surf and hydration.

    Sumo Wrestler

    - Rain Dance* / Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Aqua Tail / Waterfall
    - Zen Headbutt / Spark / Rest*
    Ability: Hydration* / Anticipation
    Item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    EVs and Nature: Adamant (+ att, - sp att)
    252 att, 252 hp, 4 def / spd

    Basic Whiscash physical moveset. Aqua Tail is more powerful, but Waterfall is safer. Earthquake is his strongest attack, second only to Rain Dance and Aqua Tail. The last attack is your choice. Zen Headbutt is a good physical attack that can confuse, Spark is for bulky waters, and Rest is to heal. Rest should only be used with Hydration, which should only be used with Rain Dance. Dragon Dance boosts speed and attack, but I prefer Rain Dance. Your choice. Leftovers shouldn't be used with Rest, as it is repetitive. The 4 defense or speed is because his speed is terrible and this doesn't make a huge difference, while his defense is decent, so why not make it a tiny bit better.

    Dancing in the Rain
    - Rain Dance
    - Earth Power
    - Ice Beam / Blizzard
    - Surf / Scald / Hydro Pump
    Ability: Hydration
    Item: Wise Glasses / Life Orb / Leftovers
    Evs and Nature: Modest (+sp att, - att)
    252 sp att. 252 hp, 4 sp def / spd

    Special moveset for Whiscash. Earth Power is one of the only special ground type attacks. Rain Dance is obvious. Ice Beam and Blizzard are for Grass types; Ice Beam is safer, Blizzard stronger. Surf hits everybody, Hydro Pump is less safe, and Scald burns. Take your pick. Wise Lens are safer, and boost special attack by 10%, Life Orb destroys for a price, and Leftovers are for health. Choose whichever stat you think is more important for the last 4 EVs.

    I WILL Stop You. I think
    - Snore* / Earth Power / Toxic
    - Scald
    - Rest* / Ice Beam
    - Rain Dance
    Ability: Hydration
    Items: Leftovers / Wise Glasses
    EVs and Natures: Bold (+def, -att) OR careful (+sp def, - att)
    252 Sp def, 252 def, 4 hp OR 252 hp, 128 sp def, 128 def

    Mostly self explanatory. Leftovers if you don't have rest, Wise Glasses if you do. You can either choose good defenses, or good hp and decent defenses. Snore is for Rest only. Otherwise use Earth Power. Rain Dance helps Hydration. Toxic bothers people. A lot.

    Double and Triple Battle Options
    Earthquake, Blizzard, Surf, even Rock Slide are good. Rain Dance can help for other water types or Dry Skin pokemon, as well as grass types who don't have any sun-related movesets.

    Partners

    Anybody to take out bulky grass. This is his only weakness, and he needs to be covered. Also, in double or triple battles, flatter or swagger are good if he has hydration.

    Countering
    Bulky grasses and waters are Whiscash's downfall. To be honest, just about anything can take him down, with his poor defenses. is good, as he is fast and can know energy ball.
    Last edited by Soperman; 21st June 2011 at 6:37 PM.


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  11. #36
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    I wish Whiscash had better stats. it's Gen V movepool is pretty awesome.
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  12. #37
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    Im excited to see this POTW. Ive been a fan of whiscash since 3rd gen but Ive been sad to see other water/grounds come in. but glad to see it gets hydration (since the other two wernt very good)

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimmahX View Post
    Different typing, a defensively oriented ability, a more diverse movepool, ...Etc
    Ok then, I was thinking mainly for the obvious then. Good to know.

    Oh, and by the way, Anticipation can actually be useful on Whiscash, as with a x4 weakness to Grass and nothing else, it'd be nice to know wether or not your enemies will OHKO you and your walling abilities. On walling sets is its use, if you hadn't got that.

    I'd assume a set with Rest, DD, Eq/Waterfall and a filler He'll be able to wreck stuff.


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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365pokemon View Post
    Just to let people know, hydration+dragon dance is illegal, and I've seen a couple people try to run this (hydration=dream world, dragon dance=egg move)
    How so? DW is from Female and DD is from a Male. Looks okay to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jak2551 View Post
    How so? DW is from Female and DD is from a Male. Looks okay to me
    True, though for the future, we shouldn't keep building off of small errors like these. I already covered this response, as did someone else. We shouldn't keep bringing it back up.
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  16. #41
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    How so? DW is from Female and DD is from a Male. Looks okay to me
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365pokemon View Post
    Just to let people know, hydration+dragon dance is illegal, and I've seen a couple people try to run this (hydration=dream world, dragon dance=egg move)
    You mean this one right here? Yea I read it, did you read mine? In case you didn't

    DW Ability - Female
    Dragon Dance - Male

    Nothing illegal about it. Anyways, Wishcash is probably too slow to pull off a DD and live, unless he has Focus sash, which will allow him to get at least 1 DD. That or you can get someone to Baton pass him agility + Swords dance, but even that is hard to pull off. : /
    Last edited by Jak2551; 22nd June 2011 at 3:10 AM.
    FC Code: 3482-2712-9159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venomfang View Post
    We don't need to make Ash look like a ******* because he already is one.

  18. #43
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    I had such a long post... Stupid internet connection failing right when I posted the quick reply. I'm not writing all that again. Here's the basics of my last post:

    - Arguing derails the thread (That's not that short of a version of what I said on that subject, TBH)

    - Not everything has a Grass move, so with Anticipation, Whiscash can get a Dragon Dance or two up. Hydration is still the best in a rain team, but things won't always have a Grass move. Just play it wisely.

    - Whiscash should be used on a rain team, obviously, with a physical set with Dragon Dance, Aqua Tail, Earhquake, and Stone Edge.

    - The Sand Dollar set could work if done correctly.

    - Here's a set if you think you're too good to need an item (Hail kind of cancels out Leftovers, but the EV gives max Leftovers recovery):

    Whiscash@Leftovers
    Ability: Anticipation
    Nature: Modest
    - Hail
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Earth Power
    - Blizzard
    EVs: 100 Def. / 156 HP / 252 SpA.
    Last edited by FrozenFroslass; 22nd June 2011 at 11:54 AM.
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  19. #44
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    You mean this one right here? Yea I read it, did you read mine? In case you didn't

    DW Ability - Female
    Dragon Dance - Male

    Nothing illegal about it. Anyways, Wishcash is probably too slow to pull off a DD and live, unless he has Focus sash, which will allow him to get at least 1 DD. That or you can get someone to Baton pass him agility + Swords dance, but even that is hard to pull off. : /
    Somebody already explained this, but your just repeating things, which is not necessary. Oh, and I tested this guy on my PL NU team, and it does work. The thing about baton passing, you just need agility. I don't think you'd want swords dance. Thanks to his HP, he's surprisingly bulky, and can take a few hits. But the idea is to use a baton passer who has complimentary weaknesses and resistances, like something that 4X resists grass, but is weak to electric. Then you can switch cash in and get you're chain going. I happen to use beedrill. And if you NEED a focus sash to get dragon dance off, then obviously some of these sets won't work.
    Sand Dollar

    Whiscash@Leftovers /w/Anticipation
    Ev's: 252 Spe, 172 Hp, 84 Spa
    Nature: Timid (+Speed, -Attack)

    ~Whirlpool
    ~Substitute
    ~Protect
    ~Toxic/Dragon Dance

    This set MUST be used in sandstorm (to rack up residual damage). Ev's for 101 Hp subs and max speed as well as slightly good special attack for whirlpool. This set is basically this guys heatran set except imported onto whiscash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=574Mig49Chw.
    (Copy/Paste everything he says). It's only 5.5 minutes, so please take the time to watch it, as it really explains this set. However, there is one difference. You can run dragon dance over toxic on this whiscash to increase speed, as speed is the most important part of this set, as you must be able to outspeed your opponents. You could also baton pass into this guy. Overall, I really like this set and hope you will all try it.
    Last edited by 365pokemon; 22nd June 2011 at 1:06 PM.

  20. #45
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    Whiscash Issues - Using It
    Whiscash has problems getting in on a sweeper. Even then, you have to get the Substitutes up before losing too much HP to use them. Grass Knot, while weak at Base 40 VS 'cash, is still a quad weakness, so you may inevitably run into no-Substitute issues or a Sp.Atk high enough to 1KO (with or without buffs). The issue is knowing what will switch into you and what to switch out to preemptively.

    Whiscash Issues - Fighting It
    Getting into 'cash safely is roughly as difficult as getting it in safely yourself. A free Dragon Dance on a switch-in will really bite you in the *** when it follows with EQ, Stone Edge, or worse. A free Sub will do likewise, protecting it from your attempted Wall. The issue is knowing what 'cash you'll switch into and what is backing it up.

    Using and fighting Whiscash is effectively a chess-match: Know where and when to move and punish mistakes without making them. Notable multi partners include Flying Types, Water Absorb, Storm Drain, and Levitate Ability Pokemon, and (in any case) Sap Sipper Ability Pokemon as backup.

    Sap Sipper Azumarill is a great back-and-forth (switch repeatedly) partner. It relies on luck and the psychology of your opponent to work, but you'll wear down Grass Move PP if done properly, protecting Whiscash. Using a third Move Type will probably risk a third Pokemon being immune (or worse) to the Move (such as switching to a Fighting Move and a Ghost Type appears or a Psychic Move into a Dark Type, like Zoroark).

    On the other hand, getting a solid hit into every opponent with spectacular prediction will ruin Whiscash and every of its allies. Being unorthodox in your offense and defense makes Whiscash that much less predictable.

  21. #46
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    I have met myself with a stupid concept.

    I said Anticipation on Walling sets, and thereof RainRest is usually on Wallers, as ResTalk isn't too good with Whiskers here.

    Although, it would work on a Staller.


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  22. #47
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    dd rest eq waterfall is easily the best set. you haven't played pokemon until you've been swept by the guy using that whiscash on the smogon server. you have to use it in rain but i don't know why you'd use whiscash out of rain either.

    sub does nothing. rotomw and ferrothorn are still going to beat you (ferro beats rest set too but if you're lucky i believe you can pp stall rotom with rest (dunno about that haven't calced it)) and you're just wasting HP for a free attack (just attack them on the switch?) whereas 100% recovery is pretty neat lategame.

    virizion is also one of its best counters.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by :wub:disc View Post
    dd rest eq waterfall is easily the best set. you haven't played pokemon until you've been swept by the guy using that whiscash on the smogon server. you have to use it in rain but i don't know why you'd use whiscash out of rain either.

    sub does nothing. rotomw and ferrothorn are still going to beat you (ferro beats rest set too but if you're lucky i believe you can pp stall rotom with rest (dunno about that haven't calced it)) and you're just wasting HP for a free attack (just attack them on the switch?) whereas 100% recovery is pretty neat lategame.

    virizion is also one of its best counters.
    Water Absorb Mantine easily says "hi" to that set. Also, a few Dream Eaters may pop in to put a kibosh on Rest. Ground and Water alone is too easy to wall, so a third offensive Move Type is almost required.

    Rest is far too risky due to mediocre defenses and a quad Grass Weakness. Without a Chesto Berry, any Pokemon with a Grass Move and decent Attack/Sp.Atk can waltz in and set itself up to sweep. Tropius can come into Rest with DDance and scoffs at 'cash's STABs. Abomasnow will wreck Rain Set 'cash.

    Dragon/Flying Types absolutely laugh at Physical 'cash, but must beware of Ice Beam from Mix-cash and Special 'cash. Intimidate and Cloud Nine don't help 'cash either. Neither does Hydreigon, who boasts EQ immunity without a quad Ice Weakness.

    Motor Drive Emolga happily switches into Spark and can easily smack 'cash with HP (Grass). Eelektross and Mow Rotom are immune to EQ and can carry some annoyances (Eelektross can easily buff itself, Mow Rotom's Leaf Storm is a death sentence without a Sub). Carnivine, while unlikely, is unusual and unseen enough to be unpredictable and effective against 'cash.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraleck View Post
    Water Absorb Mantine easily says "hi" to that set. Also, a few Dream Eaters may pop in to put a kibosh on Rest. Ground and Water alone is too easy to wall, so a third offensive Move Type is almost required.

    Rest is far too risky due to mediocre defenses and a quad Grass Weakness. Without a Chesto Berry, any Pokemon with a Grass Move and decent Attack/Sp.Atk can waltz in and set itself up to sweep. Tropius can come into Rest with DDance and scoffs at 'cash's STABs. Abomasnow will wreck Rain Set 'cash.

    Dragon/Flying Types absolutely laugh at Physical 'cash, but must beware of Ice Beam from Mix-cash and Special 'cash. Intimidate and Cloud Nine don't help 'cash either. Neither does Hydreigon, who boasts EQ immunity without a quad Ice Weakness.

    Motor Drive Emolga happily switches into Spark and can easily smack 'cash with HP (Grass). Eelektross and Mow Rotom are immune to EQ and can carry some annoyances (Eelektross can easily buff itself, Mow Rotom's Leaf Storm is a death sentence without a Sub). Carnivine, while unlikely, is unusual and unseen enough to be unpredictable and effective against 'cash.
    That's why I like Special Whiscash better, because it gets Blizzard / Ice Beam, even though the stat is slightly worse than attack. You could always run the Hail set with another move (Toxic?), and either use Ice Beam, or trust your luck with Blizzard (I would use Blizzard, it nearly never misses for me. It's not as unreliable as people might think. But it still is chance).

    While Physical 'Cash gets better stats, it only gets Bounce against grass types, and that's not even that useful, because a lot of things have Grass Knot that are different types. I'd always go with a Special ;Cash with Blizzard. It's a good backup move for Whiscash.
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  25. #50
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    I'm still wondering why you couldn't let them suffer.

    Trap them in a whirlpool, and use Substitute and Future Sight for the master gimmick. I don't plan on testing it out, but Whirpool and Future Sight is atleast worth a mention?


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