Battle Subway Discussion & Ranking Hall~ Now With Singles Team Building Guide!

**[GS]** · 20th June 2011, 12:05 AM

Welcome to the Battle Subway discussion thread and Ranking Hall! There are a
few rules that you should be aware of before you start posting.

1. All SppF rules apply
2. When posting about your current exploits in the Subway, please have at least
a few sentences. Posts like "I got pwnd by Excadril crithax whaaa?!?!" are
not acceptable and infractions will be given.
3: Please don't post your record unless you've reached 60+ battles.
4: Include the team(s) you used when posting a record streak.
5: When posting a record streak, please try to include some sort of proof,
such as a battle video or photograph. This is more for people with larger streaks
but it still wouldn't hurt.
6: DO NOT post your team in this thread to be rated. RMT's belong in
their own threads.
7: Only the Super Train records are accepted, as they go up continuously.

Spoiler:- Example Record Post:

~Battle Subway Leaderboard~

Singles

1: Shuckle: 462 Shuckle/Gastrodon/Ferrothorn
2: poopoop: 226 Politoed/Ferrothorn/Latios
3: Jolteon135: 117 Politoed/Ludicolo/Scizor
4 meeeps: 102 Garchomp/Ferrothorn/Chandelure
5: misterdarvus: 94 Gengar/Garchomp/Suicune
6: Simipour 93 Tyranitar/Excadrill/Garchomp
7: Dave Himura 83 Slaking/Volcarona/Serperior
8: x_vandslaux_x: 74 Politoed/Ferrothorn/Latios
9: Larry: 74 Dragonite/Haxorus/Porygon-Z
10: Psycho Cut: 69 Politoed/Poliwrath/Kingdra
11: Final: 65 Starmie/Scizor/Garchomp
12: Kerech: 62 Darmanitan/Omastar/Ferrothorn

Doubles

1: Magikrap: 119 Metagross/Yanmega/Garchomp/Gyarados
2: fake_out: 112 Garchomp/Rotom-W/Scizor/Latios
3: Jolteon135: 111 Terrakion/Whimsicott/Scizor/Latios
4: soulsurvivor: 65 Hariyama/Cresselia/Smeargle/Jellicent
5: pokemans1: 65 Dragonite/Machamp/Porygon2/Metagross
6: Larry: 61 Tyranitar/Heatran/Excadrill/Lucario

**[GS]** · 20th June 2011, 12:05 AM

Ask for help with movesets, synergy, EV's or pretty much anything you can think
of. Post movesets that you think would be useful in the subway, or post about your
latest accomplishment. Here are a few useful links that may be of some use to you,
along with lists of threatening items/moves/abilities that can hinder your streak.

X-Act's Defense Calculator, Battle Subway Database, Battle Subway Catalogue, Smogon Damage Calculator, Smogon Subway Speed Tiers

Spoiler:- OHKO Abusers:

Spoiler:- Trick/Switcheroo:

Spoiler:- Torment/Encore:

Spoiler:- Focus Sash:

Spoiler:- Taunt:

Spoiler:- Sturdy/Prankster:

Spoiler:- Haze/Roar/Whirlwind/Dragon Tail:

Welcome to the abridged Battle Subway Guide!

Before we get into the guide, I'd like to make a point. EV spreads are necessary if you're looking to make a good streak. The AI uses EV spreads, and so should you. If you don't know about IV's or EV's I suggest you read a few guides before diving deep into the Subway.

The first thing you want to do is select a lead. Leads should usually do 1 of 2 things depending on the type of team you want to use. The first type, I like to call a speed team, for obvious reasons.

A speed team's purpose is to KO everything as fast as possible with little trouble. Your Pokemon should always have a high Spe and Atk/SpA stats. Things like Gengar/Garchomp/Salamence/Lati@s/Starmie/Jolteon etc. fit well thanks to great stats and pretty diverse movepools.

The second type of team is based on set-up sweepers. Your lead should be able to cripple the opponent to the point that is basically useless. There are a few ways to do it, you can either use the TrickScarf strategy, the stat killer or a combination of both. The TrickScarf strategy uses a Pokemon with the move Trick to lock the opponent into 1 attack, but also gives it a x1.5 speed boost. This strategy was kinda nerfed in gen. 5, with the AI being smart enough to switch out when attacks are useless, but it's still effective. Stat killing is an incredible way to set up a sweeper. You basically reduce the opponent's stats to the point that it is useless. Once you're done with your selected method, switch to your sweeper, boost to +6 and sweep. Remember, KOing the opponents lead isn't the idea here, so your lead(s) may not have/need any attacking moves.

Here are some examples of what a lead should look like:

This is pretty much a standard TrickScarf lead:

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
252 HP/158 Def/100 Spe
*Levitate*
~ Trick
~ Flash
~ Charm
~ Thunder Wave

The Spe EV's still put her above Garchomp3 while scarfed and she sits at 157 Spe without it, letting her beat Moltres and Roserade. Charm is used to shut down Garchomp and other fast physical threats. Flash makes sure you get hit as little as possible. Trick is not always the first move you'll use, if you're facing Chomp with this set up for instance, you would immediately start to Charm.

Here's a set of stat killers I used in my record streak for example:

Shuckle @ Chesto Berry
Bold/Impish Nature
252 HP/252 Def/6 SpD
*Sturdy*
~ Rest
~ Power Split
~ Gastro Acid
~ Struggle Bug

Wow, Shuckle is so stupid good. Who knew it could do more than one thing? He starts out with Power Split to deplete attacking power and if it's a special attacker he can use Struggle Bug to cause even more problems. Gastro Acid lets me deal with things like the Regi's/Metagross with Clear Body or anything with Keen Eye. Rest is there to hopefully allow him to do two or more of these things. I went with max HP and Def simply because he has a way to lower SpA even further, while he can only rely on Power
Split to deal with physical attackers.

Gastrodon @ Rindo Berry
Calm/Careful Nature
252 HP/196 Def/60 SpD
*Sticky Hold*
~ Flash
~ Recover
~ Memento
~ Bulldoze

My second stat killer. After getting crapped on by Shuckle, most things aren't going to be doing much damage, so Recover gives me a great chance to Flash them down to -6. I like the idea of Bulldoze, as it could allow slower pokemon to set up a Sub before being attacked. Substitute is thrown in there as an option for hax protection as I Flash, but I'm just not sure which would be optimal. Sticky Hold keeps Trick users from destroying the strategy. The EV's are copy-pasta from X-Act for max defensive potential.

Synergy should also be taken into account when selecting a lead. It will help you in selecting the other members of your team. A lack of weaknesses isn't necessarily a necessity, but you should try to keep them somewhat manageable. For instance, you don't want something like Exeggutor for a lead (for more than one reason).

The next step is choosing your sweeper(s). It is possible to go with 2 stat killers and one sweeper if that's what you'd prefer. Using this method leaves you with few attacking options, but if you choose a suitable Pokemon it can be very successful.

A typical set up sweeper will carry at least 2 things: Substitute and a boosting move. I'll cover the standard booster first.

When I say standard booster, I'm referring to Pokemon that use 1 set up move (Dragon Dance/Swords Dance/Nasty Plot/Quiver Dance etc. ). Good candidates would include Salamence/Dragonite/Volcarona/Toxicroak/Lati@s/Scizor/Lucario and so on. The basic idea is to come in on the weakened opponent, get behind a Substitute, boost to +6 and sweep. Substitute will make sure you don't get ruined by status effects or random crits, it's pretty much 100% necessary so keep that in mind.

The second type of booster is called Pseudo-Invincible. This is when a Pokemon uses moves like Curse in conjunction with Amnesia. When fully set up you have +6 in Atk/Def/SpD, and behind a Sub you can basically take no damage. Couple this with Leftovers and you'll be back to full HP long before your Sub is broken. Other move combos besides Curse/Amnesia are available as well. Calm Mind and Iron Defense/Acid Armor allow you to go the special route if you prefer. Good examples of Pseudo-Invincible Pokemon are Registeel/Lucario/Snorlax/Gastrodon/Reuniclus/Chandelure etc.

Here's an example:

Lucario @ Leftovers
Modest Nature
252 SpA/252 HP/6 Spe
*Steadfast*
~ Substitute
~ Calm Mind
~ Iron Defense
~ Flash Cannon

Flash Cannon is the chosen move since nothing is immune to it. This is usually necessary so you don't have switch out a fully set up Pokemon. For instance, Snorlax should use Crunch, since nothing is immune to dark type attacks.

In conclusion I'd like to say something short about threats. You should always look for things that can threaten you, and prepare accordingly. Take the Latias from earlier for example. I made sure she outsped all Garchomp since he can OHKO and possibly stop a streak dead. Take a look around the database sometimes and look for things that could cause you problems, even having a slight idea will help you deal with it more easily. Being familiar with your team and it's weaknesses is the best way to be successful.

**Vandslaux** · 20th June 2011, 5:14 PM

Seriously? On my other singles team, Tyranitar Garchomp Excadrill, a Typhlosion outsped Excadrill (how does this happen with Sand Rush and +Speed nature???) and OHKOed him with Focus Blast.

Does the AI use DW abilities?

It seems like the AI has been getting closer and closer to competitive play-style movesets every gen.

**[GS]** · 21st June 2011, 1:45 AM

Not sure how Typhlosion was moving first, but there is a scarfed one
in the Subway, so maybe you're EV's/IV's were low?

IIRC, there are no DW abilities in the subway, but I may be wrong, can
anyone answer that?

**hekalopter** · 21st June 2011, 10:09 PM

As far as most research suggests, there are no DW abilities in the Battle Subway. Although I’m a bit curious about one of the Serperior’s who’s Leaf Storm seemed to be getting stronger or getting an extremely abnormal amount of Crits.

As for Typhlosion, it was probably the Scarfed version, and your Excadrill would have either had...
-Imperfect speed IVs/Evs (most likey scenario)
-Ability suppressed; Simple Beam, Skill Swap, etc.
-Sandstorm nullified

Will there be some sort of example version of how we should post our teams/winning records? I got to around ~120 about a month back, but I’m not sure how much info to write about, war stories, items, ect.

**Kerech** · 21st June 2011, 10:24 PM

There are no DW abilities in the Battle Subway, with the exception being the Wi-fi Train, for obvious reasons.

I suppose I'll put my team up for now.

Darmanitan @ Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs (iirc): 25/31/18/27/19/31
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- U-Turn

My lead. That is its position mainly because it was part of a different team in the past, one which needed it to barrel past key threats in order to start stalling. I think the set is pretty standard. Opted not to use Superpower as I haven't had many instances where I needed a strong Fighting move in exchange for -1 Atk and Def.

Omastar @ Focus Sash
Nature: Modest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/13/21/31/9/31
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

My special Water, Omastar. It has a Focus Sash because Lord knows it needs it against everything. You'd be surprised how many supposedly fast Pokemon like to have 0 Spe EVs in the Subway, making me go first and then hitting me at -1 bulk. Also, my SpD is terrible. Anyway, Ice + Ground is great neutral coverage, and Surf is STAB. The Spe EVs are necessary, allowing me to outspeed all non-Scarved Pokemon with the exception of max Spe Accelgor.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
IVs: 31/28/31/31/31/2
- Curse
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Defensive powerhouse. No Sub because I felt as if Power Whip was too important, which it kind of has been. Everything else is straightforward.

I can't currently provide a pic, so sadface to that. But I did end up at 62 wins...I can't recall what beat me, but it was probably a Suicune...never in my life have I had Ice Beam freeze me in so many different matches, and without me ever thawing out. I mean, I know it's supposed to be haxy, but good Lord, why only that one specific sort of hax? Ugh. Anyway, that's it from me. I might try out a new team soon, but meh.

EDIT: Seriously, screw Suicune. Just lost to another one, and really early too. And why? Because it froze me on the switch. >__< I need a Terrakion...

EDIT2: Shuckle, my man, you need some link updates, lol. This is the current BS list. All the names and moves and items are updated now. And here are the speed tiers. Woot.

**gustavo 14** · 21st June 2011, 10:37 PM

Huh, I've been waiting for one of these. My record's only 33, thanks to a Hariyama with the elemental punches. A long way to go...

I'm trying to get to at least a 49 win streak, but hax always gets me, ~~especially Palmer's Cresselia~~.

I want to try a Rain team for this goal, but I've wondered, since Politoed is faster than Tyranitar and Abomasnow, I'd be losing my weather. Would this make sending Politoed out first a bad idea?

**General Nonsense** · 21st June 2011, 11:13 PM

My highest win streak is only 22. Anything past that, I get hax'd to death. I guess that number is too low to be put in any sort of record hall

**[GS]** · 22nd June 2011, 1:53 AM

Originally Posted by hekalopter

Will there be some sort of example version of how we should post our teams/winning records? I got to around ~120 about a month back, but I’m not sure how much info to write about, war stories, items, ect.

A spoiler is probably the best way to go. Just post your team and
moves EV's etc, the number of the last battle you won and your
name. Warstories don't need to be novels or anything, but just a
quick wrap-up of your loss/win.

Originally Posted by Kerech

Shuckle, my man, you need some link updates, lol. This is the current BS list. All the names and moves and items are updated now. And here are the speed tiers. Woot.

Thanks dude, I'll add them in.

Edit: Added you to the board.

Edit2: Added a skeleton for record posts to the OP, it's in the
spoiler which you should use as well. Kerech's post is a good
example of how your post should look.

**Vandslaux** · 22nd June 2011, 4:50 PM

**[GS]** · 24th June 2011, 5:34 PM

Here are a few things to look out for:

Spoiler:- OHKO Abusers:

Spoiler:- Trick/Switcheroo:

Spoiler:- Torment/Encore:

I may do one of these for Taunt users as well, but can anyone
think of anything else to add? Maybe PKMN with Sticky Hold,
Clear Body etc?

**Kerech** · 24th June 2011, 5:53 PM

Focus Sash/potential Sturdy Pokemon. Seriously, working around those is a pain. Though that list would be fairly huge.

**Noctourniquet** · 25th June 2011, 12:13 AM

oh damn joe made a substantial post

anyway i'm not digging through every single pokémon that might have sturdy to list them here because they're not hard to spot but here are the focus sash ones;

Spoiler:- Focus Sash:

be afraid of the bold italic ones and a few others. excuse any japanese names or whatever in this list since i have an old copy saved which was pre-english release

and hey i'm nice so here is a list of everything with sturdy too

also joe here is a table that doesn't spiral downwards and stuff

HTML Code:

[B][SIZE="4"]Super Singles[/SIZE][/B]
[table]************Name*************Record*************Team*******
[/tr]************1: [I]Kerech[/I]*************62*************[URL="http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=12801331&postcount=6"]Darmanitan/Omastar/Ferrothorn[/URL]*******[/tr]************2:*********************************[/tr]************3:*********************************[/tr]************4:*********************************[/tr]************5:*********************************[/tr][/table]

Super Singles
************Name*************Record*************Te am*******
[/tr]************1: Kerech*************62*************Darmanitan/Omastar/Ferrothorn*******[/tr]************2:*********************************[/tr]************3:*********************************[/tr]************4:*********************************[/tr]************5:*********************************[/tr]

just add in names and links and stuff where need be

**[GS]** · 25th June 2011, 3:08 AM

Thanks Alex, I'm eventually going to add those spoiler lists to the
OP, and that table is far better than mine, so I'll add that later as
well.

@ Kerech: I'll do the Sturdy and Taunt lists tomorrow.

Anyone else have anything to add?

oh damn joe made a substantial post

You bastard ~~ily~~

**General Nonsense** · 25th June 2011, 4:08 AM

This question is sorta random, but has anyone managed to get a long win streak without using RNG'd pokemon with perfect IVs? I feel like that's the only way to win

**Vandslaux** · 25th June 2011, 4:47 AM

I got beat at 20 in Super Doubles today. Politoed and Slowking out, Politoed bounced my Toxicroak, Toxicroak lived barely, Sucker Punched Slowking, Toxicroak died, Politoed beat my Politoed with crit Bounce, Slowking kept hitting Kingdra hard, killed Kingdra before I could kill it, Ludicolo's Grass Knots weren't doing enough to Slowking, Politoed beat Ludicolo with Bounce.

My team is Politoed/Toxicroak/Ludicolo/Kingdra.

**[GS]** · 25th June 2011, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by General Nonsense

This question is sorta random, but has anyone managed to get a long win streak without using RNG'd pokemon with perfect IVs? I feel like that's the only way to win

All of my streaks were done with non-perfect PKMN. Granted, I
did do a lot of IV breeding, but the IV's of the team I got 519 with
were:

Latios: 31/x/31/x/29/31
Shuckle: 31/31/31/x/30/3
Empoleon: 31/x/27/31/31/31

My current 2 teams for the subway have at least 3 perfect IV's in
the necessary stats. Perfect IV's aren't completely necessary, but
it'll help you when doing damage calcs for offenses and make
sure your defenses can take as much as possible.

Edit: Added the newly formatted Leaderboard and the
threatening moves/items/abilities spoilers to the OP. I'll be
finishing up the rest of them tonight and I'll get them added.

Edit2: Finished and added the list of Taunt users, also
compiled a list of PKMN that have the Sturdy and Prankster
abilities.

Originally Posted by Me

IIRC, abilities aren't set, so keep in mind that the PKMN
with Sturdy have the possibility of having their other ability as well.

Anyone know if this is correct? If not, does anyone know how to
find out without actually battling them and checking against the
movesets/trainer?

**Psycho Cut** · 25th June 2011, 7:07 PM

This is a good idea for a thread

I'm at 42 wins with my sandstorm team atm, I'm just doing a bit of tweaking before I challenge it again. I'll have to be prepared for the Subway Boss!

**[GS]** · 25th June 2011, 7:19 PM

^ Thanks, I hope it'll be of some use to you. ^^

I added a spoiler for pHazers (Haze/Roar/Whirlwind/Dragon Tail) since
I had a bit more free time than I thought. If anyone can think of anything
else along those lines that should be noted, let me know.

**jolteon135** · 26th June 2011, 3:43 AM

Singles record 87. Proof

Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Speed
Hidden Power: Electric | 70 power
-Surf
-Hidden Power
-Ice beam
-Psychic

Sets up rain and does decent damage. HP electric for Gyrados/other water types, Psychic for Toxicroak, Ice Beam for Dragons and Grass types.
Replacing Psychic with HP fighting/focus Blast is an option if you're worried about Ferrothorn.
---------------------------------
Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Nature: Modest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Speed
Hidden Power: Psychic | 70 power
-Giga Drain
-Ice Beam
-Surf
-Hidden Power

This thing is ridiculously powerful in rain. It OHKO so many things with Surf and heals itself with Giga Drain. Hidden Power Psychic is for Toxicroak.
---------------------------------
Dragonite @ Yache Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Speed
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Roost
-Dragon Dance

Tried Dragon Claw first. It sucked. +1 Outrage destroys everything. I even 2 hit KO'd a Steelix with it!!! Yache berry is because Dragonite is my savior in a pinch so he needs to be able to save me in any situation including against ice types plus it allows you to setup against many Pokemon that carry ice type moves.

Notes: Legendary trainers are a pain in my rear part. Articuno and Cresselia are so damn bulky + they have recovery. Had to switch like 10 times just to keep my rain up and KO the hail+roost Articuno. Curse Ferrothorn also destroys this team.

Lost: Because I don't pay attention. Zoroark disguised as a Gyrados. Didn't notice the lack of intimidate. Politoed used HP electric, Zoroark used Sword Dance. Zoroark used sucker punch to OHKO Politoed next turn. I didn't switch because I couldn't risk switching into a +2 Night Slash.
Then I made a terrible misplay and sent in Ludicolo instead of Dragonite. Ludicolo got OHKO by +2 sucker punch! Dragonite finished off Zoroark and lost to a Stone edge from the real Gyrados.

2 misplays there. Should have sent in Dragonite before Ludicolo (Do damage calcs before making key moves!) and should have Dragon Danced against Zoroark.

Spoiler:- Not related to streak:

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