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Thread: Best Pokemon Walls?

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    Question Best Pokemon Walls?

    Hopefully everybody here knows what a wall is but for those of you who don't the official description of a wall goes as follows:
    Walls are Pokémon with great Defense or Special Defense or both. Their job is to defend against Sweepers and their hard-hitting attacks. Many walls have Rest or other recovery moves, because this helps them survive longer. Walls are also good with moves like Thunder Wave and Will-o-wisp that cause status effects because this cripples Sweepers even more by lowering their Speed or Attack stats. In my opinion many walls should also be able to provide entry hazards such as Stealth Rock and Spikes.

    In your opinion, past expirences, and likes/dislikes, what are the best wall pokemon?

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    My favorite is Skarmory. Its typing is perfect, movepool does EXACTLY what it needs to and it even has some other options like Taunt to screw up its counters. It can even run a Specially Defensive spread. Skarmory has been OU ever since its creation, a testimate to how good it is.

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    For the best of 5th gen i'd say Ferrothorn has great Defenses can work with Paralyses

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    Im not usually a fan of walls, but Ive had good experience with eviolite porygon2. I tried it mostly because I needed a versatile dragon counter for random matchups and it does wonders against pretty much anything without a fighting move (rotom-w resists beambolt, but it does have toxic). it also screws a lot of things like anyone with intimidate or if they have an ability offering an immunity (its fun to switch into an earthquake from flygon or fire blast from flash fire chandelure)

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    Porygon2 for me. It's a wall that can actually deal some nice damage, unlike some walls. It has a huge support movepool and BoltBeam coverage + 105 base satk. With it's evoilite, it's defiently a powerful wall.

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    Specially defensive Jirachi. Ok, it's not really a wall, but calling it a tank is an understatement. It's great at keeping powerful Dragon moves in check, and it's instrumental in countering key Pokemon like Reuniclus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    My favorite is Skarmory. Its typing is perfect, movepool does EXACTLY what it needs to and it even has some other options like Taunt to screw up its counters. It can even run a Specially Defensive spread. Skarmory has been OU ever since its creation, a testimate to how good it is.
    I recognize Skarmory as a common wall that a lot of people love, but I've never understood the appeal of it. The only good stat it has is Defense, and unfortunately for it, its two counters are almost always Special. I personally have never had trouble with Skarmory, although I recognize it as well loved. One good Flamethrower or Thunderbolt tends to be enough to take it down for me.

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    I think Blissey can be a good walls... because it has very high HP
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    I recognize Skarmory as a common wall that a lot of people love, but I've never understood the appeal of it. The only good stat it has is Defense, and unfortunately for it, its two counters are almost always Special. I personally have never had trouble with Skarmory, although I recognize it as well loved. One good Flamethrower or Thunderbolt tends to be enough to take it down for me.
    Of course it has its weaknesses. Every Pokemon does. Well the likes of Spiritomb and Eelektross don't have any actual typing weaknesses but Eelektross isn't that bulky and Spiritomb lacks actual resistances. Those can be considered weaknesses too. The fact Skarmory has great Defensive typing means that it doesn't have a lot of weaknesses to attack. Its sheer Defense means that it can take most Physical moves like they're nothing. It will still get pretty hurt by a strong neutral or Super Effective one though. Its typing affords it the luxury to run a Specially Defensive EV spread and with that, it can even take Special Attacks to an extent. There's also Sturdy (which all Skarmory should have as their ability) which got boosted this generation so at full health, I'm pretty sure nothing in OU can actually outright OHKO it (and I'm including Mold Breaker Pokemon too. Well if for some stupid reason you let Haxorus get to +6 then LO Outrage will probably kill it).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Final View Post
    Of course it has its weaknesses. Every Pokemon does. Well the likes of Spiritomb and Eelektross don't have any actual typing weaknesses but Eelektross isn't that bulky and Spiritomb lacks actual resistances. Those can be considered weaknesses too. The fact Skarmory has great Defensive typing means that it doesn't have a lot of weaknesses to attack. Its sheer Defense means that it can take most Physical moves like they're nothing. It will still get pretty hurt by a strong neutral or Super Effective one though. Its typing affords it the luxury to run a Specially Defensive EV spread and with that, it can even take Special Attacks to an extent. There's also Sturdy which got boosted this generation so at full health, I'm pretty sure nothing in OU can actually outright OHKO it.
    You're right, everything has a weakness. You are right, it has stellar Defense. The problem is that it has a much bigger Achilles' heel than most other walls. Sure, it has stellar Defenses and typing, but it has UU levels of every other stat; no Speed, no Attack, no HP, etc. If you see a Skarmory, don't be a dolt and hit it head-on with physical attacks, just go to your special sweeper. You make Skarmory out to be this great Defensive monster, and while that is true, no one would actually attack it head-on with physical sweepers. It basically just forces a switch.

  11. #11

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    I've had some fun with Dusclops. Will-o-Wisp is the best move ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    I recognize Skarmory as a common wall that a lot of people love, but I've never understood the appeal of it. The only good stat it has is Defense, and unfortunately for it, its two counters are almost always Special. I personally have never had trouble with Skarmory, although I recognize it as well loved. One good Flamethrower or Thunderbolt tends to be enough to take it down for me.
    I love Skarmory, but I have to agree with this. It's like all those Rock/Ground Pokemon from Generation 1 who have awesome defense but crap special defense. It's like, what's the point when you gave it a titanic weakness to Surf? Not to mention they're slow as all get-out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    You're right, everything has a weakness. You are right, it has stellar Defense. The problem is that it has a much bigger Achilles' heel than most other walls. Sure, it has stellar Defenses and typing, but it has UU levels of every other stat; no Speed, no Attack, no HP, etc. If you see a Skarmory, don't be a dolt and hit it head-on with physical attacks, just go to your special sweeper. You make Skarmory out to be this great Defensive monster, and while that is true, no one would actually attack it head-on with physical sweepers. It basically just forces a switch.
    There are some Physical sweepers that are quite capable of overpowering it with powerful STABed neutral or Super Effective moves. ie Infernape with Flare Blitz, Lucario or Terrakion with Close Combat (at +2 their Close Combats actually OHKO it after factoring in Stealth Rock).

    Its base 80 Attack stat is compensated somewhat by STAB Brave Bird which makes frail stuff or things weak to it think twice before switching in or trying to take it head on and Whirlwind means you can't use it as setup fodder unless you're carrying Taunt and that's no good if you can't take Brave Bird. The recoil sucks but he has Roost which helps offset it and he gets plenty of opportunities to use it.

    A wall like Skarmory doesn't need to be fast unless it is running Taunt to shut down opposing walls or to outstall slower crap with like ThunderPunch Metagross. Base 70 Speed is still better than a lot of Defensive Pokemon too.

    For a Special Attack to be able to overpower him, it needs to be Super Effective and pack at least half decent power. It has no 4x weaknesses so it doesn't have to worry about them and its typing leaves it with few weaknesses and a ton of resistances. Don't expect to 2HKO it with a weak Thunderbolt from something like an uninvested Blissey. If Skarmory is running a Specially Defensive spread, it needs to pack even more power to be capable of overpowering him.
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    I'll put it a different way on why Skarmory is my favorite wall (IMO the best)

    Blue Harvest switched in Skarmory!
    Opponent's Scizor used Bullet Punch! It did almost nothing!

    Opponent sent in Zapdos!
    Skarmory used Spikes!

    Skarmory switched to Gastrodon!
    Zapdos used Thunderbolt. lol.


    One layer of Spikes early on can do a TON of damage to a team over a long game. Repeat this a few more times, then start using Whirlwind. Bad teams can be ravaged by a lone Skarmory even if they have numerous ways of dealing with it.

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    You both are describing something that is very conditional. Final, the first half of your post is describing ways to beat it, and Harvest, what happens if you get out-predicted or your Gastondon is already gone? That's the thing, it only has one thing going for it: defense. It has excellent defense and above average typing, but it is so easy to counter, it isn't as reliable as Blissey or Jirachi or the like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    You both are describing something that is very conditional. Final, the first half of your post is describing ways to beat it, and Harvest, what happens if you get out-predicted or your Gastondon is already gone? That's the thing, it only has one thing going for it: defense. It has excellent defense and above average typing, but it is so easy to counter, it isn't as reliable as Blissey or Jirachi or the like.
    You said no one would actually attack it head on with Physical Attacks. I was proving that point wrong. There are things that can break it from the physical side.

    With outprediction. It's the chance you take when playing the prediction game. You may be able to predict your opponent perfectly the first time round but get outpredicted if you tried it the second time. Also, if for some reason the Zapdos was running HP Grass (not likely since Zapdos typically packs HP Ice nowadays but not impossible), you'll get Gastrodon in on Thunderbolt once but the next time, it'll switch in and eat a HP Grass. Luckily for Gastrodon, HP Grass doesn't OHKO but it'll die if you were stupid enough to leave it in unless using it for death fodder. If it has Toxic, Gastrodon, will get in safely the first time and will eat a Toxic on the switch. There's also team preview now so a smart player could catch on quickly. See. Nearly everything is conditional.

    Lastly, you proved yourself wrong. You see. It doesn't have just 1 thing going for it. Great Defense, great Defensive typing, the moves it needs (Spikes, Brave Bird, Taunt, Roost, Whirlwind, etc). As for counterability. That's what the rest of your team is for. To beat out the stuff your other team members lose against.

    Ok. I'm done.
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    lol ChaosBlizzard. have you heard of switching out? that's what you do when they send in a special attacker against skarm. then they have to deal with a layer of spikes like bh said. your statement is just as 'conditional' as hers. you say "what if you get outpredicted and your gastro is gone" well what if you outpredict the opponent and their zapdos is gone? prediction doesn't work for an argument sorry. skarmory is the best physical wall, one of the best spikes user, and a great pokemon for just about any team

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    Skarmory, Blissey, Chansey. I also love Ferrothorns typing and its a real help when it comes to taking out water types.
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    I've been trying out a ferrothorn recently, and it's done really well for me. I've also hd good experience with some special walls that can also deal a heck ofa lot of damage e.g. mismagius, virizion.
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    Skarmory is a personal favorite of mine but I think my all time favorite is probably Jirachi. Quite simply because it pisses so many people off. I love flinching things to death and seeing my opponent throw all kinds of stupid insults and/or rage quitting. I like steel types in general for walls because they're usually fantastic at the job.
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    not the best but one i love to pull for my red team when the game is about halfway or more to an end deoxys d time with cosmic power toxic and night shade
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    @Final, your whole post makes Skarmory sound terrible and hard to use. And furthermore, having good typing and a good movepool is the definition of viability, not of excellence; Skarmory is viable, it's just horribly out classed. Basically you've agreed it only has one above average thing, shown how to beat that one good thing, and explained how hard to use it is; are you for it or against it? :/

    @Regarde, so why play that game in the first place? Swampert, Blissey, Quagsire, Jirachi, Miltank, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, these are all examples of walls that are completely self-contained. They can set up for themselves, withstand all kinds of hits reasonably well, and can beat their counters with little to no outside help. Skarmory does have great defense and that ever-useful Steel typing, but ultimately it is too reliant on help to be useful. It is simply out classed by more self-contained walls. That's what this boils down to.

    And btw, Spikes + Whirlwind = cheap. Although with Skarmory's abysmal speed I don't see how that's practical.

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    I think you need to lurk more. It's clear you have next to no knowledge of competitive pokemon.
    And btw, Spikes + Whirlwind = cheap. Although with Skarmory's abysmal speed I don't see how that's practical.
    cheap is a tern you'll hear no one competitive player use. you're second statement implies that speed is a factor in using whirlwind when whirlwind itself has negative priority. seriosuly. download po, play consistenty, and lurk more so you don't make posts such as these that embarrass yourself. there's a reason skarmory's been a top tier ou since gsc lol

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    Uh oh, this topic is quickly going downhill.

    ChaosBlizzard please play the game a little more before making statements about how Skarmory is "outclassed". No, Skarmory is one of the best Pokemon in the game. You don't seem to understand that every free turn Skarmory gets to either Spike or use Whirlwind is catastrophic if played right.

    Skarmory is SO GOOD its up there as one of the best Pokemon of all time. Saying its bad is ridiculously naive. Please, PLEASE play the game a little more ok? You said yourself you are new to the game so avoid making statements like that without experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    @Final, your whole post makes Skarmory sound terrible and hard to use. And furthermore, having good typing and a good movepool is the definition of viability, not of excellence; Skarmory is viable, it's just horribly out classed.
    what the **** outclasses skarmory? and don't you dare say ferrothorn because skarmory and ferrothorn are almost completely different.

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    would slaking count? my lvl 100 slaking has an hp count of over 436, not really a wall but i like to think of it as one, i use yawn to put my opponenets to sleep, use slack off to restore hp punishment to punish hammer arm to kill earthquake users since slaking weighs so much
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