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Thread: Duuuddee... Pass the blunt...

  1. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmical Tel El Amarna View Post
    You are aware that those drugs are indeed harmful and do cause both physical and psychological damage (that is usually irreversible), right?
    Um, yeah.

    And because people who start doing those usually don't get addicted to it, lose whatever life they have, and then go on to cause pain and sorrow to others in the world. Oh wait they do...
    Not always. And the people who take those drugs usually understand what they are doing to themselves and are ready to obtain the drugs by any means necessary.

    If they know what they're getting into it is then permissible? I know what I'd be getting into if I killed someone, I'd have an idea of the possible consequences, so.... permissible? Because I would know what it is that I'd be getting into?
    Taking drugs is nothing like killing someone. Taking drugs like crack and meth hurts yourself but it only has the potential to hurt others. In the end, no matter how much meth you've smoked you make your own decision. Its not like you take one hit of crack, your soul falls out, your teeth turn brown, your parents disown you, and your dog dies.

    My claim and statement is that, yeah if you sell those drugs to people, then yeah I consider you a bad person because what you do benefits no one and causes nothing but destruction, ruin, and pain.
    Selling heroin to a heroin addict certainly benefits the heroin addict. And people wouldnt take these drugs if they gained nothing from it but meth mouth and crippling addictions. These drugs make people that feel bad feel good and escape from the hardships of life. Despite what you may have learned in DARE drugs dont just harm people. Heroin has been used successfully as an anesthetic and is stilled prescribed as an analgesic in the UK, (cant think of any use for crack other than escapism), and meth is a big part of what keeps the economies of some east asian countries such as Thailand up and running by allowing people to work longer and harder. They dont just cause destruction, ruin, and pain. I agree with Snorunt that being a drug dealer is an amoral profession. You talk about it like drug dealers are sticking needles in little kids arms. They arent forcing anything on anyone.

    Whether or not selling hard drugs is immoral isnt what this thread is about anyway.
    Last edited by OldManJenkins; 28th October 2012 at 5:51 AM.

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    Not always. And the people who take those drugs usually understand what they are doing to themselves and are ready to obtain the drugs by any means necessary.
    To say that even if they understand what they're doing to themselves and are ready to obtain by any means necessary does not support you against my claim at all and further contributes to its validity. As for it not always happening, well I beg to differ because those drugs are extremely addictive. Not that a person can't come off of doing one of those or do them very occasionally, but that usually it is pretty easy to become addicted and even if someone does meth for two or three months for example, damage is still induced during that time period.

    Taking drugs is nothing like killing someone. Taking drugs like crack and meth hurts yourself but it only has the potential to hurt others. In the end, no matter how much meth you've smoked you make your own decision. Its not like you take one hit of crack, your soul falls out, your teeth turn brown, your parents disown you, and your dog dies.
    I like the first sentence the best because there are a lot of people on this planet who would beg to differ because in many ways, yes it is like killing someone. Joe who's sitting in his room using heroin has not literally committed homicide as he sits there nodding in and out. But there are many ways that people can argue that, yes those sorts of hard drugs do kill people, and that it is quite obvious. Yes it has the potential to harm/hurt others, in fact it has the likelihood of doing so. In some way or another it always hurts or disadvantages someone, and that is why I say this. And you're right, its not like you take one hit crack and soul falls out, disownment, etc. etc. It actually happens over time and not over night like you say.

    Selling heroin to a heroin addict certainly benefits the heroin addict. And people wouldnt take these drugs if they gained nothing from it but meth mouth and crippling addictions. These drugs make people that feel bad feel good and escape from the hardships of life. Despite what you may have learned in DARE drugs dont just harm people. Heroin has been used successfully as an anesthetic, (cant think of any use for crack other than escapism), and meth is a big part of what keeps the economies of some east asian countries such as Thailand up and running by allowing people to work longer and harder. They dont just cause destruction, ruin, and pain. I agree with Snorunt that being a drug dealer is an amoral profession. You talk about it like drug dealers are sticking needles in little kids arms. They arent forcing anything on anyone.
    Thats a very poor example of a benefit. While I have empathy for those who are addicted, I stand by my statement that selling these drugs are wrong and that choosing to get involved with using them despite having knowledge of possibilities, outcomes. and consequences is also wrong. The DARE remark is an audacious statement considering its irrelevance and inaccuracy. Yeah, thats great use it as medicine, but if you don't need it and a medical professional is not suggesting it, then don't use it. And if thats the case, we don't need a drug dealer then. I'm aware that other people in other parts of the world use various different substances for various reasons. That's great but if any of these people develop physical/psychological problems (which I'm inclined to think that they will if they use is habitually) then you haven't really proved the contrary.

    You shouldn't infer that because I've never made such a claim. I said that I consider it wrong and why. I agree to a degree that drug use(literally the word use and its definition) is in many ways amoral, but as I specifically said giving examples crack, heroin, and meth drug dealers are bad guys. AMC's Breaking Bad.
    Last edited by Cosmical El Amarna; 28th October 2012 at 6:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmical Tel El Amarna View Post
    As for it not always happening, well I beg to differ because those drugs are extremely addictive. Not that a person can't come off of doing one of those or do them very occasionally, but that usually it is pretty easy to become addicted and even if someone does meth for two or three months for example, damage is still induced during that time period.
    Yes, they are addictive. Yes, they will cause damage to your body with extended use. Im not saying that continued and constant drug use is good, I dont think anyone will tell you that. Im saying that the drug itself isnt inherently bad just because its used recreationally.


    I like the first sentence the best because there are a lot of people on this planet who would beg to differ because in many ways, yes it is like killing someone. Joe who's sitting in his room using heroin has not literally committed homicide as he sits there nodding in and out. But there are many ways that people can argue that, yes those sorts of hard drugs do kill people, and that it is quite obvious. Yes it has the potential to harm/hurt others, in fact it has the likelihood of doing so. In some way or another it always hurts or disadvantages someone, and that is why I say this. And you're right, its not like you take one hit crack and soul falls out, disownment, etc. etc. It actually happens over time and not over night like you say.
    Joe has not figuratively committed homicide either. Suicide maybe. He is feeling good and he isnt hurting anyone else. He is degrading his body and probably his mind but he isnt hurting anyone. And you can hypothetically use be addicted to crack and not die or have your family fall apart.



    Thats a very poor example of a benefit. While I have empathy for those who are addicted, I stand by my statement that selling these drugs is wrong and that choosing to get involved with using them despite having knowledge of possibilities, outcomes. and consequences is also wrong. The DARE remark is an audacious statement considering its irrelevance and inaccuracy. Yeah, thats great use it as medicine, but if you don't need it and a medical professional is not suggesting it, then don't use it. And if thats the case, we don't need a drug dealer then. I'm aware that other people in other parts of the world use various different substances for various reasons. That's great but if any of these people develop physical/psychological problems (which I'm inclined to think that they will if they use is habitually) then you haven't really proved the contrary.
    If you went to elementary school in america you went through the Dare program. I wasnt trying to say that all you knew about drugs was what you learned in Dare I was saying that all that most people know about drugs comes from propaganda.

    So if you do anything that has a possibility to have ill effects you are immoral? Is it immoral to take a drug because you werent told to by a doctor? Is smoking marijuana to relieve stress without a doctor telling you to an immoral act? And yes people may develop a physical/psychological dependency with habitual use of a drug. But with smart controlled use you wont.

    You shouldn't infer that because I've never made such a claim. I said that I consider it wrong and why. I agree to a degree that drug use(literally the word use and its definition) is in many ways amoral, but as I specifically said giving examples crack, heroin, and meth drug dealers are bad guys. AMC's Breaking Bad.
    I can agree with you that addiction to the aforementioned substances is a bad thing and encouraging addiction to them is an immoral act. But just because someone sells crack/meth whatever doesnt make them a bad person. You have to think about the context. If Joe sells a rock of crack to someone who smokes crack maybe once a month so that he can afford food to feed his starving children is Joe a bad person?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmical Tel El Amarna View Post
    So its not immoral in any way to sell crack cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin to people?
    Damn skippy.

    Because those substances have never ruined people's iives or anything, and they're totally healthy too, right?
    Their health qualities are pretty much irrelevant providing they're not selling to ignorant children.

    I get what you're saying, other companies sell stuff that is bad for you but society doesn't label them as bad, corrupt, immoral, etc. I do consider all three companies that you listed as immoral because their product is unhealthy and causes problems for the population
    Self-inflicted problems.

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    Why is Nicotine and Alcohol legal and Marijuana or any other drug that people here have been talking about is not?

    I would actually like answer from those who think that Alcohol & Nicotine should remain legal, and weed, crack, meth, heroin should remain illegal. I wonder if there are people here that believe that.
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    David Powelson, M.D., formerly chief of psychiatry, Cowell Hospital, University of California, Berkeley, at one time advocated legalizing the use of marijuana. Later, after more evidence was available, he wrote: “I now believe that marijuana is the most dangerous drug we must contend with: 1.*Its early use is beguiling. The user is given an illusion of feeling good; he cannot sense the deterioration of his mental and physiological processes. 2. Its continued use leads to delusional thinking. After one to three years of continuous use, the pathological forms of thinking begin to take over the thought process.”—Executive Health Report, October 1977, p.*8.
    Dr. Robert L. DuPont, former director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse in the United States, who in the past was quoted as minimizing danger from marijuana, more recently stated: “The real issue is the health danger posed by this epidemic [of marijuana use by the younger generation], danger of at least two kinds. One is the effects of the intoxication, ranging from the hazardous impact on driving to caring less about everything. The other area is purely physical. Here the concerns range from the regular occurrence of chronic bronchitis among marijuana users to the very real possibilities of harmful hormonal effects, effects on the immune system and possibly even cancer.”—Montreal Gazette, March 22, 1979, p.*9.
    Science Digest provided these details: “Regular marijuana puffing may, in the long run, widen the gaps between nerve endings in the brain that are necessary for such vital functions as memory, emotion and behavior. In order for nerves to perform their functions, they must communicate between themselves.” Then, commenting on the results of tests involving animals, the article continues: “The most marked effects occurred in the septal region, associated with emotions; the hippocampus, concerned with memory formation; and the amygdala, responsible for certain behavioral functions.”—March 1981, p. 104.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    David Powelson, M.D., formerly chief of psychiatry, Cowell Hospital, University of California, Berkeley, at one time advocated legalizing the use of marijuana. Later, after more evidence was available, he wrote: “I now believe that marijuana is the most dangerous drug we must contend with: 1.*Its early use is beguiling. The user is given an illusion of feeling good; he cannot sense the deterioration of his mental and physiological processes. 2. Its continued use leads to delusional thinking. After one to three years of continuous use, the pathological forms of thinking begin to take over the thought process.”—Executive Health Report, October 1977, p.*8.
    Dr. Robert L. DuPont, former director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse in the United States, who in the past was quoted as minimizing danger from marijuana, more recently stated: “The real issue is the health danger posed by this epidemic [of marijuana use by the younger generation], danger of at least two kinds. One is the effects of the intoxication, ranging from the hazardous impact on driving to caring less about everything. The other area is purely physical. Here the concerns range from the regular occurrence of chronic bronchitis among marijuana users to the very real possibilities of harmful hormonal effects, effects on the immune system and possibly even cancer.”—Montreal Gazette, March 22, 1979, p.*9.
    Science Digest provided these details: “Regular marijuana puffing may, in the long run, widen the gaps between nerve endings in the brain that are necessary for such vital functions as memory, emotion and behavior. In order for nerves to perform their functions, they must communicate between themselves.” Then, commenting on the results of tests involving animals, the article continues: “The most marked effects occurred in the septal region, associated with emotions; the hippocampus, concerned with memory formation; and the amygdala, responsible for certain behavioral functions.”—March 1981, p. 104.


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    So, basically, over time, it could kill you. That sounds familiar, where have I heard that before...
    Oh yeah.
    Alcohol's killing of the liver and Nicotine's lung cancer.
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    The latest date on those sources was 1981 and the earliest was 1977. David Powelson's claim that 1-3 years of continual use causes delusional and pathological behavior+thinking is near total bulls**t.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaka View Post
    So, basically, over time, it could kill you. That sounds familiar, where have I heard that before...
    Oh yeah.
    Alcohol's killing of the liver and Nicotine's lung cancer.
    On that note: the cancer is caused by smoking. Nicotine has other problems that marijuana doesn't. Pot brownies are safer than joints as a result. Personally, I like the possibility of selling just the marijuana content used for cigarettes and separate rolling papers.

    Also, Powelson's ideas both are WRONG. Dr. DuPont's opinions are still pretty shaky. Again, the lung issues are because of smoking and are not specific to ganja -- though he is correct that marijuana is a "downer." Why is that a problem in recreational time? Also, as stated, most people who are high on grass are definitely cognizant of it and, as such, are not likely to go driving or operating heavy machinery
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenobitic View Post
    On that note: the cancer is caused by smoking. Nicotine has other problems that marijuana doesn't. Pot brownies are safer than joints as a result. Personally, I like the possibility of selling just the marijuana content used for cigarettes and separate rolling papers.

    Also, Powelson's ideas both are WRONG. Dr. DuPont's opinions are still pretty shaky. Again, the lung issues are because of smoking and are not specific to ganja -- though he is correct that marijuana is a "downer." Why is that a problem in recreational time? Also, as stated, most people who are high on grass are definitely cognizant of it and, as such, are not likely to go driving or operating heavy machinery
    Yeah, Nicotine is worse in the smoking, because weed doesn't leave tar like nicotine does. Though people have to be careful with eating it, you could easily take too much. Even still, it's pretty hard to overdose on Marijuana, unlike alcohol. You'd be unconscious before that happens.
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    That's because you can not overdoes on marijuana.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmical Tel El Amarna View Post
    That's because you can not overdoes on marijuana.
    Yeah, contrary to popular belief.

    Anyways, to be quite honest, most of alcohol's prolonged side effects or equal to or worse then marijuana's. Not only that, but more homicides and some such are recorded from alcohol than marijuana, due mostly to drinking and driving. But if your high, your not really motivated to drive, or much of anything else.
    Really, marijuana is no more dangerous than tobacco or alcohol, and I see no reason not to legalize it. The government can start making money of it, rather than the drug cartel. Crime rate goes down, since people wouldn't get in trouble for having it anymore. Prisons aren't full of simple marijuana users/sellers and that frees up prison space and stops wasting government money to keep them there.

    Obviously, it'd have regulations, just like alcohol or tobacco. Probably have an age limit somewhere between 18 and 21. I'd say 18.
    Cover the packages in warning labels or whatever.
    Maybe even make private growing of marijuana illegal. People will do it anyways, I guess, but there wont be much reason to since they can buy it at a gas station or Wal-mart or whatever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    2. Its continued use leads to delusional thinking. After one to three years of continuous use, the pathological forms of thinking begin to take over the thought process.”—Executive Health Report, October 1977, p.*8.
    Where have I heard stuff like that before... Oh yeah, Reefer Madness. And according to the Executive Health Department fluoride is actually good for you. I wouldnt really place too much trust with them.

    And yeah, people have yet to discover a way to overdose on marijuana. You can easily take more than you mean to through edibles but you cant kill yourself with it.@Brutaka, Alcohol has lots of very dangerous long term health effects both physical and mental. And its already legal to grow your own marijuana in medical states. Another good thing about marijuana legalization is it would probably cut down on both alcohol use and cigarette smoking both of which are much more dangerous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmical Tel El Amarna View Post
    The latest date on those sources was 1981 and the earliest was 1977. David Powelson's claim that 1-3 years of continual use causes delusional and pathological behavior+thinking is near total bulls**t.
    the dates dont matter cuz i got them from the Ebook version of a book that was published recently (so its still valid)

    and to the las part of your post: it sounds like you dont WANT to belive it.
    tough luck guys, even if u dont want to believe it, that doesnt make it nonexistent.

    and i'm wondering why people would want more thing on the market that could harm them-regardless of how it makes them feel.
    and yes alchohol can be bad for u if u overdose, but studies say that smaller amounts can be good for u (funny, they dont mention that about weed)

    and smoking kills u...period.
    if u want better evedence that its bad for u... google it....its not that hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    and to the las part of your post: it sounds like you dont WANT to belive it.
    tough luck guys, even if u dont want to believe it, that doesnt make it nonexistent.
    Uh, no you physically cannot. It sounds like YOUR trying to deny it.

    and i'm wondering why people would want more thing on the market that could harm them-regardless of how it makes them feel.
    Because people are doing it anyways, it's less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol, and it could increase revenue to the government.

    and yes alchohol can be bad for u if u overdose, but studies say that smaller amounts can be good for u (funny, they dont mention that about weed)
    Overdose of alcohol means alcohol poisoning, which means new liver or death. It's probably gonna be the last one, livers are hard to come by. And all you have to do is research "Benefits of Marijuana" and there you go, hundreds of different articles that argue benefits of marijuana in small doses. And even not so small doses.

    and smoking kills u...period.
    So don't smoke it. Eat it, or put it in tea or something, I dunno.
    Now, smoking tobacco, yes, it does. Lung Cancer, and all that. So does alcohol, it kills you. Liver poisoning, unclear thinking(leads to drunk driving, fights, so on)
    if u want better evidence that its bad for u... google it....its not that hard.
    if you want evidence that its not so bad for you...google it...its not that hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaka View Post
    Uh, no you physically cannot. It sounds like YOUR trying to deny it.


    Because people are doing it anyways, it's less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol, and it could increase revenue to the government.


    Overdose of alcohol means alcohol poisoning, which means new liver or death. It's probably gonna be the last one, livers are hard to come by. And all you have to do is research "Benefits of Marijuana" and there you go, hundreds of different articles that argue benefits of marijuana in small doses. And even not so small doses.


    So don't smoke it. Eat it, or put it in tea or something, I dunno.
    Now, smoking tobacco, yes, it does. Lung Cancer, and all that. So does alcohol, it kills you. Liver poisoning, unclear thinking(leads to drunk driving, fights, so on)

    if you want evidence that its not so bad for you...google it...its not that hard.
    i have
    people post whatever they want online...scientist will lie to increase their pay (anyone will)
    it makes more sense to believe that its bad for u than not.



    hundreds of different articles that argue benefits of marijuana in small doses. And even not so small doses.
    key word ARGUE...

    if it wasnt bad for u then it wouldnt be illegal...plain and simple.

    Because people are doing it anyways, it's less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol, and it could increase revenue to the government.
    tobacco, maybe
    alchohol, nope

    Uh, no you physically cannot. It sounds like YOUR trying to deny it.
    Physically cannot what?
    And so what if I want it to be wrong if im right?
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    the dates dont matter cuz i got them from the Ebook version of a book that was published recently (so its still valid)
    You're simply wrong in this instance. Just because something is made available as an Ebook version it does not mean that whatever its content may be is either true or current simply because of that.
    and to the last part of your post: it sounds like you dont WANT to belive it.
    No, how about it is because I don't suffer from these acclaimed delusional or pathological problems. Or maybe because I know several people who, by this man's claims, should be labeled as delusional and pathological members of society and are not.
    alchohol can be bad for u if u overdose, but studies say that smaller amounts can be good for u
    Alcohol is not healthy in general, so to say that its bad if you overdose is a misleading statement.
    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...-good-for-you/
    if it wasnt bad for u then it wouldnt be illegal...plain and simple.
    This is my last time speaking to you, and by the way at this moment in your life, you are a naive fool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmical Tel El Amarna View Post
    You're simply wrong in this instance. Just because something is made available as an Ebook version it does not mean that whatever its content may be is either true or current simply because of that.
    did i say when it was made into an ebook....no i said that it was PUBLISHED recently...read closer before posting
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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    i have
    people post whatever they want online...scientist will lie to increase their pay (anyone will)
    it makes more sense to believe that its bad for u than not.
    Scientists lie both ways.




    key word ARGUE...

    if it wasnt bad for u then it wouldnt be illegal...plain and simple.
    Smh...


    tobacco, maybe
    alchohol, nope
    DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ALCOHOL? Alcohol is infinitely more dangerous than marijuana. You need to read up some more on pot my friend.

    and i'm wondering why people would want more thing on the market that could harm them-regardless of how it makes them feel.
    and yes alchohol can be bad for u if u overdose, but studies say that smaller amounts can be good for u (funny, they dont mention that about weed)
    Oh, the ignorance.

    Also, there are dozens of ways to ingest marijuana other than smoking it. Yes, smoking any substance is bad for you but marijuana is one of the least damaging substances you can smoke. Sorry for the rage posting.

    I agree with Cosmical's naive comment.
    Last edited by OldManJenkins; 5th November 2012 at 11:21 PM.

  20. #945

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    did i say when it was made into an ebook....no i said that it was PUBLISHED recently...read closer before posting
    You're ridiculous, ITS FROM THE 70'S AND 80'S ITS NOT NEW BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN RE-RELEASED! You clearly have no idea how any of this works.
    if it wasnt bad for u then it wouldnt be illegal...plain and simple.
    This is my last time speaking to you, and by the way at this point in your life, you are a naive fool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmical Tel El Amarna View Post
    You're ridiculous, ITS FROM THE 70'S AND 80'S ITS NOT NEW BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN RE-RELEASED! You clearly have no idea how any of this works.

    This is my last time speaking to you, and by the way at this point in your life, you are a naive fool.
    dude i have the ebook copy AND the hard copy (released 2005)

    maybe i am...what do u care
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    Alcohol is not good for you. Period. Some scientists say it can have some negligible positive health effects in very low quantities.

  23. #948

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    dude i have the ebook copy AND the hard copy (released 2005)
    NONE OF THAT MATTERS! THE CONTENT WITHIN IT IS FROM THE 70'S AND 1981. This is really simple, I don't understand at all how you do not understand this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    i have
    people post whatever they want online...scientist will lie to increase their pay (anyone will)
    it makes more sense to believe that its bad for u than not.
    How does it make more sense? Without listing facts, since by your argument, any fact isn't a fact at all, just an opinion/lie, please explain to me why it makes more sense for it to be unhealthy than healthy.

    if it wasnt bad for u then it wouldnt be illegal...plain and simple.
    Hm. I know a whole bunch of things that were illegal, that are now legal, and we generally consider them good.
    Like the right for any race/any gender to vote. It was illegal for, say blacks and women, to vote, but not now.
    Also, government tried outlawing alcohol once. Does that mean it's bad too?

    tobacco, maybe
    alchohol, nope
    You're retarded if you honestly believe alcohol isn't as dangerous, if not more dangerous than marijuana.
    I'll give you one fact: no one has died from marijuana. Ever. In 5000 years of history. More than can be said than alcohol. My uncle died of alcohol poisoning.
    Now, people who mix marijuana with other medicines die, or people that choke on their own vomit die, but that isn't directly marijuana's fault.
    Okay, here's a second:
    In order to die from marijuana overdose, you'd have to smoke/consume 1500 POUNDS of weed. Oh yeah, in less than 15 minutes. Ready, Set, Go?

    Physically cannot what?
    And so what if I want it to be wrong if im right?
    All right, so you can overdose on marijuana. HOWEVER, overdosing on it has no fatal effects. Ever. At all.
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  25. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    i have

    if it wasnt bad for u then it wouldnt be illegal...plain and simple.


    tobacco, maybe
    alchohol, nope


    Physically cannot what?
    And so what if I want it to be wrong if im right?
    Marijuana became illegal because of the competition with other products such as cotton.

    A plain and simple way of thinking shows that you have no critical thinking skills, and critical thinking is important.


    Tabbacco isn't really the problem, it's the extra products put into the cigarettes.
    Alcohols effect the body much worth than marijuana, to the liver directly. And it's done much quicker.

    I'm not going to say weed is the greatest thing in the world, but it was helped much more than it's hindered. Weed isn't anything like heroine, or other class A drugs.

    Personally, If I were in pain I'd rather smoke a bowl, than take a pain reliever pill.
    Last edited by Heldigunner1; 5th November 2012 at 11:33 PM.

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