GOP Debate 8/11/11

[havoc37]

Yes he did, as well as the psychotic nut job known as Ron Paul.

Tell me, how is Ron Paul, who is the only sane and consistent candidate, a "psychotic nut job" do you even know anything about him or his policies?

[havoc37]

The democrats of the past are now called republicans.

You're just like the other power-tripping liberals, you even used the generic liberal line in trying to switch party histories to justify your neoliberal big government, watch this, you're saying the exact same things that the neolib says in the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZrqdZFFb5c

[BigLutz]

Tell me, how is Ron Paul, who is the only sane and consistent candidate, a "psychotic nut job" do you even know anything about him or his policies?

I know of his policies, especially since he is a Congressman from my own state. I also know of his psychotic foreign policy that would not only be dangerous for the U.S. but for the rest of the world.

[havoc37]

I know of his policies, especially since he is a Congressman from my own state. I also know of his psychotic foreign policy that would not only be dangerous for the U.S. but for the rest of the world.

Tell me, if his foreign policies are so dangerous, why is it that pretty much every single person in the military supports him? In fact he received more campaign donations from the military than every single other candidate combined.

[BigLutz]

Tell me, if his foreign policies are so dangerous, why is it that pretty much every single person in the military supports him? In fact he received more campaign donations from the military than every single other candidate combined.

Donations do not mean his foreign policy is any less psychotic, naive, or dangerous.

[havoc37]

Donations do not mean his foreign policy is any less psychotic, naive, or dangerous.

The generals, officers, and NCOs all disagree with you. And I'm fairly certainly lifelong generals know more about the military than you or Obama.

[BigLutz]

The generals, officers, and NCOs all disagree with you. And I'm fairly certainly lifelong generals know more about the military than you or Obama.

I have seen his numbers, which amazingly is not alot considering how many members there are in the military. I have not yet seen you or anyone else provide a break down of those numbers as to how many of each donated.

[havoc37]

I have seen his numbers, which amazingly is not alot considering how many members there are in the military. I have not yet seen you or anyone else provide a break down of those numbers as to how many of each donated.

In the other thread I posted a source showing statistics of military donations to each candidate. So tell me, how is not going to war with Iran, not starting any more unprovoked wars, and having free trade with other countries. Also, why do we need to have foreign troops in Germany or send military aid to Israel?

[BigLutz]

In the other thread I posted a source showing statistics of military donations to each candidate. So tell me, how is not going to war with Iran, not starting any more unprovoked wars, and having free trade with other countries. Also, why do we need to have foreign troops in Germany or send military aid to Israel?

It goes beyond that including allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons and not even stepping in to stop Iran when they start nuking the middle east. There is a reason why he was smacked down like a idiot during the Presidential Debate for his foreign policy.

[havoc37]

It goes beyond that including allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons and not even stepping in to stop Iran when they start nuking the middle east. There is a reason why he was smacked down like a idiot during the Presidential Debate for his foreign policy.

Tell me, if he was "smacked down" why is it that the audience all supported Ron Paul when he made his Iran speech? Also, look at the comments on the video, all of the love Ron Paul is getting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhxwJnPbzt4

[BigLutz]

Tell me, if he was "smacked down" why is it that the audience all supported Ron Paul when he made his Iran speech? Also, look at the comments on the video, all of the love Ron Paul is getting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhxwJnPbzt4

You are ignoring the facts that his statements in that debate were no less naive, stupid, or ignorant of the world. Try actually debating the facts than looking for validation from comments and polls conducted strictly on the internet.

[havoc37]

You are ignoring the facts that his statements in that debate were no less naive, stupid, or ignorant of the world. Try actually debating the facts than looking for validation from comments and polls conducted strictly on the internet.

1. Both the CIA and international inspectors have found no evidence of nuclear weapons being built in Iran. (1, 2)

2. Iran doesn't have an air force that can reach the United States.

3. If Iran did some how manage to attempt to attack the US, there would be massive retaliation, and Iran knows this.

4. Why should we start yet ANOTHER war, on top of the half a dozen wars we are currently fighting around the globe? Why should even more American troops have to die and waste trillions of dollars?

5. What harm is there in allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons, tons of countries in the region already have nuclear weapons, including China, Russia, India, Israel, and Pakistan.

6. The reason why the countries in the Middle East and the surrounding areas are somewhat anti-American and the reasons they have attacked the United States, is BECAUSE we are meddling in the internal affairs of Middle Eastern countries.

[BigLutz]

1. Both the CIA and international inspectors have found no evidence of nuclear weapons being built in Iran. (1, 2)

The CIA has since recanted the mistake and is now looking toward Iran building a weapon.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-nuke-weapons/

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...lear-bomb.html

Also Iranian defectors have also said Iran is building the bomb.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/internat...-help-1.332312

2. Iran doesn't have an air force that can reach the United States.

Which is meaningless as open as our southern border is, you could sneak a nuclear bomb across with out anyone noticing.

3. If Iran did some how manage to attempt to attack the US, there would be massive retaliation, and Iran knows this.

This is the same country that believes it is on the verge of bringing about the end of the world. MAD doesnt work here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121501428.html

4. Why should we start yet ANOTHER war, on top of the half a dozen wars we are currently fighting around the globe? Why should even more American troops have to die and waste trillions of dollars?

Other than the fact Iran has been fighting a proxy war with us for years? Killing tens of thousands of American soldiers? And provides the single greatest threat to the U.S. in the Middle East?

5. What harm is there in allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons, tons of countries in the region already have nuclear weapons, including China, Russia, India, Israel, and Pakistan.

Yeah except none of those countries see a need to actually destroy Israel, or to bring about the end of days to fulfill their own belief of Islamic prophecy.

6. The reason why the countries in the Middle East and the surrounding areas are somewhat anti-American and the reasons they have attacked the United States, is BECAUSE we are meddling in the internal affairs of Middle Eastern countries.

No not really, they wish to create their own Islamic Super Nation, they need us to be out of the way for that, as well as Israel our ally to be destroyed.

[havoc37]

The CIA has since recanted the mistake and is now looking toward Iran building a weapon.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-nuke-weapons/
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...lear-bomb.html
Also Iranian defectors have also said Iran is building the bomb.

Okay, and so even if they were to be building a bomb, they have agreed to enter into disarmament talks already and they lack a means of delivering the bomb.

Which is meaningless as open as our southern border is, you could sneak a nuclear bomb across with out anyone noticing.

*sigh* not much to say here if you're really that hellbent on warmongerering.

This is the same country that believes it is on the verge of bringing about the end of the world. MAD doesnt work here.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121501428.html

Maybe they wouldn't feel that way if people like you wouldn't threaten to invade them every five seconds?

Other than the fact Iran has been fighting a proxy war with us for years? Killing tens of thousands of American soldiers? And provides the single greatest threat to the U.S. in the Middle East?

We shouldn't be in the Middle East to begin with! That's the problem.

Yeah except none of those countries see a need to actually destroy Israel, or to bring about the end of days to fulfill their own belief of Islamic prophecy.

Yes, because North Korea, Iran, and China all love Israel... And why the hell should we support Israel? They can and have taken care of themselves, plus we shouldn't get involved in other countries affairs.

No not really, they wish to create their own Islamic Super Nation, they need us to be out of the way for that, as well as Israel our ally to be destroyed.

Just a minute ago you said they weren't afraid of the US and would attack us and/or Israel anyway. Now you're saying they "need us to be out of the way" in order to oppose Israel?

[BigLutz]

Okay, and so even if they were to be building a bomb, they have agreed to enter into disarmament talks already and they lack a means of delivering the bomb.

First do you honestly trust Iran to disarm? Second as we have seen with terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran has the means to deliver weapons to its proxys.

*sigh* not much to say here if you're really that hellbent on warmongerering.

In other words you have no comeback to the fact we have a open border in which weapons including bombs could pass through easily.

Maybe they wouldn't feel that way if people like you wouldn't threaten to invade them every five seconds?

Yeah this goes back to 2004 with the election of their President, like it or not they elected a mad man who believes they are the ones to bring about the end of the world. You cannot reason with nuts.

We shouldn't be in the Middle East to begin with! That's the problem.

Maybe you havn't been to New York lately, why don't you go down to the south side of the city, and wave your hands around where the World Trade Center used to be. See if you touch the towers.

Yes, because North Korea, Iran, and China all love Israel... And why the hell should we support Israel? They can and have taken care of themselves, plus we shouldn't get involved in other countries affairs.

China and North Korea could care less about what does or does not happen to Israel, the only country actively seeking its destruction of those three is Iran. As for why we support them? Because they are a consistent ally in the Middle East and the only truly stable western democracy there.

Just a minute ago you said they weren't afraid of the US and would attack us and/or Israel anyway. Now you're saying they "need us to be out of the way" in order to oppose Israel?

Yes they need us destroyed or damaged heavily so they can wipe out Israel and anyone else that stands in their way to create either

A: A Muslim super state.

or

B: The End of Days.

The outcome varies depending on which group of Islamic nut jobs we face.

[havoc37]

We have to end these wars now BigLutz! Reports indicate we will be in Afghanistan until 2024 unless Ron Paul is elected: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ntil-2024.html

[BigLutz]

We have to end these wars now BigLutz! Reports indicate we will be in Afghanistan until 2024 unless Ron Paul is elected: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ntil-2024.html

Hey I have no problem getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan but only on the condition that if we are attacked again we will respond not with troops but with nuclear warheads. The truth is if we do leave Afghanistan now, it will destroy the government and create a power vacuum in which terrorists will use to re establish the Taliban and al Qaeda, which in the end will only return us to a pre 9/11 state there.

[kaiser soze]

Uh........can we ease up on the A&B convo please?

[CSolarstorm]

Hey I have no problem getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan but only on the condition that if we are attacked again we will respond not with troops but with nuclear warheads. The truth is if we do leave Afghanistan now, it will destroy the government and create a power vacuum in which terrorists will use to re establish the Taliban and al Qaeda, which in the end will only return us to a pre 9/11 state there.

...

That would be completely amoral. First if we were attacked, there would be no telling if it was related to the Taliban or not; then by nuking Afghanistan, we'd be murdering countless civilians for what we'd tentatively blame the Taliban on.

The condition of their state is a remote priority compared to our security. We're not there to, in other words, to clean up their matters and ensure that they don't revert to a pre-9/11 state. We're there to ensure another 9/11 doesn't happen to us again.

Uh........can we ease up on the A&B convo please?

I'm sorry, I posted after you asked. I'll try.

[BigLutz]

...

That would be completely amoral. First if we were attacked, there would be no telling if it was related to the Taliban or not; then by nuking Afghanistan, we'd be murdering countless civilians for what we'd tentatively blame the Taliban on.

Obviously we would want to find the perpetrators first, but more importantly you want to rule by fear, to make sure they do not attack us again. Would we be murdering countless civilians? Yes. But consider the broad number of civilians that would be murdered by engaging in a decade long ground war.

The condition of their state is a remote priority compared to our security. We're not there to, in other words, to clean up their matters and ensure that they don't revert to a pre-9/11 state. We're there to ensure another 9/11 doesn't happen to us again.

Really that is not going to happen unless we completely wipe out al Qaeda, or make it so they are so afraid to attack us again that no one will support al Qaeda.