Credit to Blue Harvest for the amazing banner.
While it largely appears this thread has died, I have one gripe I wish to post to get off my chest. Is it just me, or does Smogon have a major bias towards banning offensive threats and neglects pontetial defensive powerhouses? Hopefully, as it appears they are again changing their means of deciding which mons are considered "broken", they will fix this bias.
Also, while I really like what Smogon does and the amount of information it provides to larger community, some of the people have an unwarranted sense of priviledge and claim all those opposed to their views or who have teams week to their teams as "noobs". While this last comment can be seen in the community at large at times, although I have seen it more on the Smogon forums more than anywhere else so far.
Sableye might be a good example of a Pokemon deemed broken for defensive characteristics in the lower tiers, though. It was banned from RU mainly because of the support it offered with priority Taunt and Will-O-Wisp, and made Entei the most popular physical attacker for a while just because it was one of the few that were immune to Will-O-Wisp.
They aren't Bias at all, sweepers are just harder to stop. Defensive powerhouses can absorb hits, but physically defensive ones will often fall to special moves, specially to physical moves. If there were any broken walls, HO wouldn't be viable at all.While it largely appears this thread has died, I have one gripe I wish to post to get off my chest. Is it just me, or does Smogon have a major bias towards banning offensive threats and neglects pontetial defensive powerhouses? Hopefully, as it appears they are again changing their means of deciding which mons are considered "broken", they will fix this bias.
I think that the tiering is fair, it's all based on usage. I wish it was possible to search for pokemon based on the role that they can play in a team, i.e. physical sweaper, special sweaper, physical wall etc.
Agreed, Sableye turned RU to ****.
Credit to Beck for the RNG userbar.
As of August 18th 2012, I resigned as a CG leader.
Ninjask's also NU.
As long as Ninjask and Smeargle are NU, I can obliterate teams if I get a successful Baton Pass to my Regigigas. Trust me, with an Adamant nature and EVs put into HP and evening the defences (with a move-set of Foresight, Substitute, Drain Punch, and Return), it can tear teams into 2 even in higher tiers with Baton Pass support.
If they don't catch it, don't bother pointing it out, especially when it involves a Pokemon like Regigigas.
On the topic of bans, what if Moody didn't increase Evasion, do you think Smogon would still allow it?
^ it could, but it would still rely on luck, and could get those accuracy boosts, help baton pass again, and do other things. It would overcentralize any metagame it's placed in.
Yep we should ban baton pass, and weather too. Oh and Trick Room, I'm tired of having to worry about Trick Room all the time. Just ban the move Trick Room, and prankster, it's broken. Ban all status moves on prankster users, they're too cheap. Oh and ban Probopass to it's so cheap. Just ban everything except Magikarp with splash.Well, actually Blaziken isn't really Uber because some people whined about how they were getting owned by it. I mean, it doesn't stand a chance in the Uber enviroment.
An offensive Pokemon needs high speed / attack and good movepool to be broken.
A defensive Pokemon needs EXTREMELY high defense, HP and a GREAT support movepool including recovery to be broken. Very few Pokemon can actually take hits well enough to wall as much of the metagame as something like Mewtwo or Kyogre destroys.
We already have defensive ubers too. Lugia, Giratina, and in 4th gen Deoxys D.
I agree mostly with his tiering process, except I think Keldeo, Meloetta, and Genesect should be classified Uber until they are released, seriously, on PO I fought a guy who used a Keldeo in OU since it is currently classified Limbo since its unreleased. That pony sweeped a lot of my team.
Defensive behemoths, IMO, tend to not make the suspect list because they require smarter use. Most things that get banned are "so easy a caveman can use it." Here's how you use Excadrill:
a) Eliminate other weather starter if applicable, then send out your sand starter.
b) When Excadrill is sent out, Swords Dance on the first turn
You need to be way harder to use a wall. If I'm using CroCune, I need to plan my turns carefully. Do I CM on the first turn or use Scald to try to burn an offensive threat? I've taken some damage, so do I Rest or can I get another CM in first? When should I just switch out? (a tough decision, but I've out-predicted my opponents before by switching out CroCune when conventional wisdom said stay). And of course, defensive mons usually need some time to set up, giving a good opponent decent time to KO you.
I have claimed Giratina
I think the tiers are pretty well balanced right now.
the voters have earned their right to vote and therefore i think the tiering process is pretty good.
There will always be the discussions wether perma-weather should be banned or not but i don't think it's necessary.
i think it goodly !
It's a useful tool to try and reduce the number of unbalanced, overbearing teams of the SAME pokemon. Like we don't have enough of that already anyway lol. Plus it's not like you have to use it ALL the time. When you battle with your freinds you don't even have to think about it. I don't. I have no ****in clue what teir my pokemon are in. But in a certain competitive setting it gives people a chance for a better matchup.
I can't understand why people would be upset about their favorite pokemon being in a low teir. As far as my understanding goes (correct me if i'm wrong), but can't you use a pokemon of a lower teir in a higher tier battle anyway? So if you want to use it anyway because you think it's a good pokemon, do it. There's no logical reason to complain about it. If you're really offended that other people didn't vote up your pokemon, battle with it and give them a reason to..
where is my mind?
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