View Poll Results: I'd prefer it if......

Voters
31. You may not vote on this poll
  • The writers focused on fleshing out the game's plot throughout the saga

    7 22.58%
  • The writers improvised and focused on their own storylines

    7 22.58%
  • Depends on the generation/saga

    17 54.84%
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 76

Thread: Should the writers stick closer to the game's plot?

  1. #1

    Default Should the writers stick closer to the game's plot?

    It's perhaps a well-known fact that the anime isn't the most faithful adaption of the games. Thus, the main question here is -- Would you like it to be?

    Ever since RSE, the games have placed an increasingly large emphasis on the villain team -- their plot making up approximately 90% of the game's storyline; as opposed to the earlier gens (gens 1 and 2, specifically), where the emphasis was mostly on the adventure aspect of the games as well as the badge quest, rather than the narrative. The focus on the villain team was especially apparent in BW, where the champion battle at the league was "shafted" in favor of the final showdown with TP.

    In contrast, the anime is notorious for shafting the villain plot in favor of Ash's badge quest (or Island Challenge, in Alola's case), which results in various complaints such as "the villain teams lacking presence", or, "being turned into generic bad guys without the grey morality and depth they had in the games".

    This whole shafting of the villain's plot may, dare I say, actually be part of the reason why so many fans outside of PAD see this anime as "lacking the epic-ness of the games and Pokespe" (not my opinion), and may even occasionally frustrate some of the most hardcore anime fans themselves, as evident by those complaints above that can frequently be found in this very anime section.

    So, the main driving point of this discussion is -- would you like to see the anime focus on the villain's plot (as in, flesh out their motives by exploring the grey morality of their actions as opposed to reducing them into generic bad guys whose plots take up approximately 12-15 episodes of their respective series) alongside Ash's quest, or would you rather the writers focus on conjuring up their own storylines instead to go with Ash's main quest throughout the series (May/Dawn's contest quest, the Ash/Paul rivalry + the whole Chimchar subplot being the best examples of this that I could think of right now) and shaft the villain's plot in favor of them?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Distant Valhalla
    Posts
    12,633

    Default

    Why not both?

    I don't see why we need to choose one. Diamond and Pearl had a perfect balance of the anime-original storyline and a well-developed Team Galactic storyline.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Personally, I don't mind having both original storylines from the writers and writing that is loyal to the game's plot.

    Let's put the Pokemon XY series, for example. Of course shafting Team Flare in the first part of the saga (XY) is natural since Ash is collecting badges and going around Kalos for that matter, training and meeting all sorts of Pokemon along the way. But during the XY&Z part, everything has become really well put in terms of developing various parts of the anime itself, such as the main character, his Pokemon, meeting more Pokemon, collecting the remaining badges, his companions, and Team Flare. The Ash-Greninja training and finding out about their extraordinary bond while having the presence of Squishy is interesting and well done. It consequently attracted Team Flare to the story and got them involved to build up for the moment after the Lumiose Conference. That one isn't entirely similar to the game, but it had elements to it, and I think the consensus of people on the climax is mostly positive.

    That's just me, though. It had its flaws, of course, but it was enjoyable and memorable in the long run.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Diamond and Pearl had a perfect balance of the anime-original storyline and a well-developed Team Galactic storyline.
    DP had a good balance of both compared to the other sagas, but even then, I've seen many complaints about anime!TG lacking the depth they had in the games; they still suffered from the "generic bad guys" syndrome that the other villain team adaptions suffered from (correct me if I'm wrong here, as it's been a while since I've last watched DP). And, while they were better handled than most of the other villain teams, they only had about 11-15 episodes if I remember correctly. In other words, it still felt like their plot played second-fiddle to the more focused-on plotlines in that series such as Dawn's quest and the Ash/Paul rivalry. What I'm talking about here is approximately 80% focus on the villain's plot like it is in the games, which makes their plot the main focus of their respective sagas (thus allowing the writers to flesh out and develop their motives more, as opposed to turning them into generic villains that the twerps could go "shut up!" to, as Datsright would put it).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    South-East England.
    Posts
    569

    Default

    Ever since RSE, the games have placed an increasingly large emphasis on the villain team -- their plot making up approximately 90% of the game's storyline; as opposed to the earlier gens (gens 1 and 2, specifically), where the emphasis was mostly on the adventure aspect of the games as well as the badge quest, rather than the narrative. The focus on the villain team was especially apparent in BW, where the champion battle at the league was "shafted" in favor of the final showdown with TP.
    90% is a huge exaggeration. All the games have had more focus on the adventure and badge quest than the villain plot, even SM, the most narrative-driven games out of all them. In RSE, DP, XY and SM the evil teams pretty much disappear for long stretches and only come back into relevance about 3/4s of the way through the games. BW was the one exception when the villain plot also formed the game's finale.

    So, the main driving point of this discussion is -- would you like to see the anime focus on the villain's plot (as in, flesh out their motives by exploring the grey morality of their actions as opposed to reducing them into generic bad guys whose plots take up approximately 12-15 episodes of their respective series) alongside Ash's quest, or would you rather the writers focus on conjuring up their own storylines instead to go with Ash's main quest throughout the series (May/Dawn's contest quest, the Ash/Paul rivalry + the whole Chimchar subplot being the best examples of this that I could think of right now) and shaft the villain's plot in favor of them?
    It wasn't the anime that "reduced them to generic bad guys". A lot of villains in the Pokemon games ARE generic bad guys. There is no grey morality. Only N falls into that zone and he's not even the big villain of his game - Ghetsis is, and he's most definitely evil.

    The anime's portrayal of Teams Magma, Aqua, Galactic, etc. are perfectly accurate to how they were portrayed in the games. If it comes across as lacking in the anime, it's because the source material itself is lacking.

    None of these plots are big enough or complex enough to justify being the sole focus of the show, either. There needs to be additional storylines to sustain a three-four year show.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    Although I don't think the anime plot should be too close to the games' plots, I think that a decent storyline involving the villain teams is always welcome. A balance of the elements of the games and anime-only elements sounds ideal imo.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VoltTacklingPika View Post
    It wasn't the anime that "reduced them to generic bad guys". A lot of villains in the Pokemon games ARE generic bad guys. There is no grey morality. Only N falls into that zone and he's not even the big villain of his game - Ghetsis is, and he's most definitely evil.

    The anime's portrayal of Teams Magma, Aqua, Galactic, etc. are perfectly accurate to how they were portrayed in the games. If it comes across as lacking in the anime, it's because the source material itself is lacking.

    None of these plots are big enough or complex enough to justify being the sole focus of the show, either. There needs to be additional storylines to sustain a three-four year show.
    True, they're not exactly morally gray but there was plenty of characterization for the Anime to potentially take advantage of and expand upon. Pokemon Special, a Manga with one writer, has done more with the evil teams and the RS Chapter has a very cool use of Team Magma and Team Aqua. The XY Chapter had Team Flare pursuing our heroes and expanded plenty on what the games barely touched upon.

    Yes, having more storylines like Ash's badge quest or the female lead's whatever but it often seems like there's potential for the game's antagonists to be elaborated upon. Take crumbs and make them into a cake.
    Pokemon Heroes: The Black & White Chapter PILOT

    "14 year old Hilda is a Pokemon Trainer with a secret: she can talk to Pokemon. After setting off into Unova, she gets involved in the affairs of Team Plasma and becomes acquainted with N, a mysterious guy her age. He may possess the exact same abilities as her but his views couldn't be more different. As her team grows in strength, numbers and bonds, Hilda finds a tangled web of mystery weaving around her and a daunting fate that she can't ever turn her back on..."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    570

    Default

    Yes. The SM games have an awesome plot that the SM anime is letting go to waste for example.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Distant Valhalla
    Posts
    12,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alloutℯ View Post
    Yes. The SM games have an awesome plot that the SM anime is letting go to waste for example.
    Yes because the previous series simply dived into Team Flare from episode 1.

    I love the hypocrisy of some people, ESPECIALLY when the series is not even 20 episodes in. It's remarkable, really.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    3,830

    Default

    I like it better when the anime implements their own ideas and maybe fleshing out the game plots. I really hate having to know what's next. It lowers the hype and excitement of not knowing what's going to happen. I prefer if they implement a few ideas and plots from the game but twist it into something a bit more fleshed out and interesting. Like they give out hints and go all out trying to out beat the game's original idea of it.
    Last edited by satopi; 25th March 2017 at 12:14 AM.
    ~Certified Alan Apologist~
    Pikachu deserves the main character treatment he rightfully earned!

    (Credit goes to Satomine Night)
    Introducing Ash's next traveling companions: The enigmatic Bookworm & insightful Daydreamer
    Mallow-Lillie friendship duo; a bond so close, even the butler ships it!
    -Lady Lana: Full time big sister, part time kickasser
    -Queen Lillie and her duchess Vulpix will stick together, even without the initial intimacy
    -Ash will get character development and strives to be the best Ash like no Ash ever was...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    2,498

    Default

    I feel like the purpose of the anime is to expand the lore of the games and explain some plot holes. Often times, the anime feels like it's watering down the game by sidelining the villains. When they don't sideline the villains, they suck out the substance to them. Team Plasma's generic goal and Team Flare's lack of flair were and are still flaws.
    "Everyone creates the thing they dread. Men of peace create engines of war. Invaders create Avengers. People create... smaller people? Er... children! I lost the word there. Children. Designed to supplant them. To help them end."

    "Momentai!"

    "Resistance. Rebellion. You will burn these ideas away."

    But this is the traditional royal Canterlot voice! It is tradition to speak, using the Royal "we", and to use THIS MUCH VOLUME WHEN ADDRESSING OUR SUBJECTS!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,778

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alloutℯ View Post
    Yes. The SM games have an awesome plot that the SM anime is letting go to waste for example.
    Agreed. The SM saga has gone nowhere in the past 4 months and it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. I'd rather see Ash travel around the Alola islands on a constant basis than see more of his face faults and wacky, pointless adventures on Melemele Island.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Alola region
    Posts
    1,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wednesdayz View Post
    Agreed. The SM saga has gone nowhere in the past 4 months and it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. I'd rather see Ash travel around the Alola islands on a constant basis than see more of his face faults and wacky, pointless adventures on Melemele Island.
    well he's seeing akala island's guardian and hopefully catching litten in the next episode, so there's that.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    8,423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wednesdayz View Post
    Agreed. The SM saga has gone nowhere in the past 4 months and it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. I'd rather see Ash travel around the Alola islands on a constant basis than see more of his face faults and wacky, pointless adventures on Melemele Island.
    But then we'd get cotd/Team Rocket Johto-XY fillers then which is much worse than what SM is doing imo
    If SM is a rip off of Yokai Watch, then XY/Z is a very poor ripoff of shonen anime like Naruto
    Credit goes to Satomine Night

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wednesdayz View Post
    Agreed. The SM saga has gone nowhere in the past 4 months and it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. I'd rather see Ash travel around the Alola islands on a constant basis than see more of his face faults and wacky, pointless adventures on Melemele Island.
    Good post.

    It is slightly static, but they'll probably have a lot of drama further down the line! Still, at present apart from caught Pokémon there is a lot of filler. Team Skull don't seem threatening enough sometimes. Lol if Ash gets Rockruff and Litten he'll have a pet team. Kinda weird after Greninja though... But he already has a starter so it's not a new direction.
    { We keep praying and looking to the skies }

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    South-East England.
    Posts
    569

    Default

    True, they're not exactly morally gray but there was plenty of characterization for the Anime to potentially take advantage of and expand upon. Pokemon Special, a Manga with one writer, has done more with the evil teams and the RS Chapter has a very cool use of Team Magma and Team Aqua. The XY Chapter had Team Flare pursuing our heroes and expanded plenty on what the games barely touched upon.

    Yes, having more storylines like Ash's badge quest or the female lead's whatever but it often seems like there's potential for the game's antagonists to be elaborated upon. Take crumbs and make them into a cake.
    They can take crumbs and make a cake, but they have to make a cake for kids, not teenagers. Kids media usually has simple characters with simple motives. Heck, a lot of shonen stuff has simple villains with simple motives, too.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    570

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wednesdayz View Post
    Agreed. The SM saga has gone nowhere in the past 4 months and it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. I'd rather see Ash travel around the Alola islands on a constant basis than see more of his face faults and wacky, pointless adventures on Melemele Island.
    I just think Ash needs to leave the school since most of what he's learned so far happened when he was out exploring the island anyway. I believe that the school is holding Ash back.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wolverhampton
    Posts
    943

    Default

    No the game plots are very rigid
    Having traveled through the Kanto (x2), Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos regions, plus the Orange & Decolore Islands, competing in six regional Pokémon League competitions, winning the Orange League, defeating the Kanto Battle Frontier, seeing/ meeting each of the rare and powerful Legendary/ Mythical Pokémon, some on numerous occasions, and continually fighting vigilantly against six villainous teams, Ash has apparently now decided to go to school.

  19. #19

    Default

    The thing is, the games' stories really don't have what it takes to carry a television show week after after week (after week) for 3-4 years at a time. Maybe a traditional 26-52 episode series, but not the format Pocket Monsters has of almost 150-almost 200.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,778

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattySadler View Post
    No the game plots are very rigid
    So? God forbid should the anime have a solid plot again (or as solid as we can get).

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    264

    Default

    A balance would be nice. We need good game plots as well as original anime ideas together as one.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VoltTacklingPika View Post
    They can take crumbs and make a cake, but they have to make a cake for kids, not teenagers. Kids media usually has simple characters with simple motives. Heck, a lot of shonen stuff has simple villains with simple motives, too.
    Why can't it be made for both groups? This is a franchise meant for "All Ages," isn't it? The whole "it's for kids" thing feels like its placing limits on what the writers can and can't do, something that the creator in me is simply disappointed in.

    I think LBX: Little Battlers Experience is a good example of a game being adapted into an Anime where they balance showcasing aspect of the gameplay while also adapting the overall storyline AND taking liberties with the absence of game mechanics.
    Pokemon Heroes: The Black & White Chapter PILOT

    "14 year old Hilda is a Pokemon Trainer with a secret: she can talk to Pokemon. After setting off into Unova, she gets involved in the affairs of Team Plasma and becomes acquainted with N, a mysterious guy her age. He may possess the exact same abilities as her but his views couldn't be more different. As her team grows in strength, numbers and bonds, Hilda finds a tangled web of mystery weaving around her and a daunting fate that she can't ever turn her back on..."

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    South-East England.
    Posts
    569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Why can't it be made for both groups? This is a franchise meant for "All Ages," isn't it? The whole "it's for kids" thing feels like its placing limits on what the writers can and can't do, something that the creator in me is simply disappointed in.

    I think LBX: Little Battlers Experience is a good example of a game being adapted into an Anime where they balance showcasing aspect of the gameplay while also adapting the overall storyline AND taking liberties with the absence of game mechanics.
    The thing with target demographics is that you have to target the lowest number in your age range. "All Ages" may sound all inclusive but in reality it means the product has to be friendly to the youngest people watching the show.

    I'm aware the whole "it's for kids" thing sounds like an excuse for bad or lazy writing, but it's a very real limitation for writers and one people have to always bare in mind when discussing the writing for the show. Regardless of what type of creator you are, a writer always has to write for an audience. In this instance they don't choose the audience.

    If, for example, the target age range for Pokemon is 8-12, they have to make villains understandable to 8-12 year olds. Pokemon's villains may end up a little on the safe side, but they're built for this purpose.
    Last edited by VoltTacklingPika; 25th March 2017 at 4:45 PM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    570

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VoltTacklingPika View Post
    I'm aware the whole "it's for kids" thing sounds like an excuse for bad or lazy writing, but it's a very real limitation for writers and one people have to always bare in mind when discussing the writing for the show.
    That doesn't explain why suddenly the show is all about gags now with only minimal progression every few episodes. OS through XY wasn't as bad as SM even with all the fillers.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,717

    Default

    Actually both options are bad. An adaptation of the plot of SM games would not be ideal since it would be difficult to execute well considering how the anime was handled so far (like all previous seasons) and an "original" story to be disastrous as a step in BW and In XYZ because of the incompetence of the writers to raise drama and suspense when it is obvious that the protagonsitas never run a real danger (and in the next saga be reset). DP had a balance but for that very reason it was the most boring of all since it was known how everything ended and unlike PD / Pt there was a good construction of the bow in general, at least J if it was the most memorable but its role was not Of importance since any other personage could have fulfilled the work of abducting the Trio del Lago.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •