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Thread: Hyper Offence, v2.

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    Default Hyper Offence, v2.

    INTRODUCTION
    Welcome to my new Hyper Offence RMT. A few weeks ago, I made a RMT showcasing my physical HO team. Since then, I’ve made the transition over to special offence and have tasted a significantly higher level of success. So far, this team has peaked at #95 on the Smogon DW OU ladder under the name AceTrainerRyan. Out of my last 30 battles, it has won 23 and lost 7. It is constantly evolving, however, and I believe I can push the team higher up the ladder as I log every single battle I participate in, to better learn my team’s weaknesses and strengths.
    Whilst I respect that everybody has their own opinion, I would appreciate it if your rates paid particular attention that this is a HYPER OFFENCE team. Thus, I don’t want to see comments like ‘your team has no physical sweepers’, etc.
    For those of you unsure of what Hyper Offence is, this is the best article I can find on the strategy:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61631
    Thanks again. Now without further ado:


    UPDATE: I've managed to get this team to rank #13 on Smogon's DW OU Tier with 1309CRE and rising This makes this team one of my most successful to date, and without shadow of a doubt the most fun


    TEAM AT A GLANCE






    Architect(Deoxys-S)@Light Clay
    Jolly
    Pressure
    252 Hp / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt

    In my opinion, the premier Dual Screen setter of 5th Gen OU. Can survive a Scarved U-Turn from Genesect leads with its bulk, even without Reflect up. Aim of the game is to set whichever screen most is appropriate i.e. Reflect when facing Tyranitar leads to survive the Crunch, and then set Stealth Rocks up. Rocks are essential, because they make my sweepers hit a OHKO instead of a 2HKO on many occasions. Taunt screws up leads such as Ferrothorn and Tentacruel amongst many others, giving me a free turn to set screens up when they switch. Often, this guy can set up both screens and Stealth Rocks. He is an integral part of my team, because his screens allow my sweepers to switch in a set-up safely, paving the way for a sweep.



    Xander(Infernape)@Life Orb
    Timid
    Blaze
    252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    - Nasty Plot
    - Fire Blast
    - Grass Knot
    - Vacuum Wave

    My first Nasty Plotter. This guy is a beast. Can switch into such Pokemon as Tyranitar and set up his Nasty Plot with ease behind a Reflect. I absolutely love it when I use Nasty Plot whilst an opponent switches in their Jellicent expecting a Close Combat. What they NEVER realise is that a +2 Grass Knot actually OHKO’s a Jellicent! Grass Knot deals with so many Pokemon that would otherwise check him, such as Hippowdon, Milotic, and Quagsire. Fire Blast’s accuracy is shaky I admit, and at least 3 of this team’s losses are down to Fire Blast missing at a crucial stage. But that is the risk I run I guess for more power, although I’m considering downgrading to Flamethrower. I like to run at least one priority move per team and Vacuum Wave has come in handy on many occasions. Timid allows it to speed tie with other Infernapes , Virizion, Keldeo and Thundurus. Xander is one of the stars on this team.



    Fidget(Keldeo)@Life Orb
    Timid
    Justified
    252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    - Calm Mind
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power Electricty

    Keldeo’s role is EXTREMELY important on this team. Running a team of special attackers, as you would imagine, can leave enemy Blisseys rubbing their hands together with glee. Not on this guy’s watch. Keldeo can set up on a host of common OU threats like Tyranitar and proceed to sweep. It’s Hydro Pump obliterates all in its path, although again, its accuracy pisses me off sometimes. Secret Sword is its real secret weapon. It attacks using Keldeo’s titanic special attack stat, but deals PHYSICAL damage, meaning it easily OHKO’s Blisseys and Chanseys leaving their team extremely vulnerable to a sweep from another member of my team. Furthermore, it’s Hidden Power electric removes other bulky opposition in the form of Jellicent and Gyarados. Basically, this guy is my specialist wall-breaker who, when not sweeping entire teams on his own, leaves their teams vulnerable to another member of my team finishing the job.



    Raiden(Thundurus)@Life Orb
    Timid
    Prankster
    252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Taunt

    My second Nasty Plotter. In a metagame dominated by rain, this guy was almost the first ‘mon on the team sheet. Easily sets up behind screens, but Taunt often gives it the berth to set up mid to late game when screens have long gone. Pretty straight forward set, running pseudo BoltBeam. Thunderbolt for STAB and HP for Dragons and Venusaur etc. Straight forward and efficient. What a beast.



    Glimmer(Alakazam)@Life Orb
    Timid
    Magic Guard
    252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    The most recent addition to my team. Alakazam fills in the holes left by my other teammates. For example, a common threat posed to Infernape, Keldeo AND Thundurus is an offensive Starmie. With base 115 speed, it out-speeds all three, hitting Super Effective damage with Psychic and Ice Beam respectively. Alakazam out-speeds Starmie and OHKO’s with Shadow Ball. In fact, Alakazam out-speeds most of the metagame, and is therefore a great late-game sweeper, quick and powerful enough to mop up a weakened team without the need to set up with Calm Mind or Nasty Plot. Psyshock allows it to KO special walls such as Blissey. Shadow Ball for Starmie, LO Lati@s, Reuniclus, Gengar, Deoxys etc. Focus Blast for Tyranitar and steels. Hp [Fire] is for Scizor and Ferrothorn. Magic Guard allows for LO without the recoil damage and allows him to safely switch into hazards. Handy.



    Concord(Latios)@Choice Scarf
    Timid
    Levitate
    252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Surf

    Timid nature to hopefully out-speed other Scarved Latios running Modest. Unfortunately because the standard Latios runs HP [Dark], this means my Latios loses the speed tie if their Latios is also Timid because HP [Rock] gives me an imperfect speed IV. Latios acts as my revenge killer. The aim of Hyper Offence is to keep pummelling away at the opponent , making sure that they can’t set their own strategy into motion. However, it doesn’t always work out this way and Latios is my back up plan. Timid / Scarf allows it to outspeed Salamence and Dragonite after they have Dragon Danced once and KO with Meteor. Latios can also out-speed and Quiver Danced Volcarona and revenge it with HP [Rock]. This is important as, somehow, even with Stealth Rocks up Volcarona always trolls my team. This team has lost 7 times so far and Volcarona was on 4 of those teams. Surf is filler although it can be useful for revenging Excadrills.


    And there you have it! I hope you liked my team.
    Please remember that whilst I appreciate every rate, this is a Hyper Offence team and thus the regular ‘rules’ of team building might not apply. Having said that, rate vigorously but fairly! I am very open to suggestions you feel may improve this team 
    In the meantime, I will continue to push forward and experiment myself. Hopefully, with a bit of luck, I can get it into the top 10.
    Last edited by Oh, Romeo; 15th September 2011 at 2:10 AM.


    Credit to Farfan for the awesome banner!

    My Hyper Offense team:
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=540086

  2. #2

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    Most of your team gets walled by Blissey/Chansey. As for Latios, why HP [Rock]? I know it's for Volcanora, but Surf is also good against it and stronger than HP [Rock]. HP [Fire] is better imo cause it can take out Bugs such as Scizor. Anyway, I suggest you put a physical Fighting type in there or change Infernape to physical (It's a good wallbreaker. And what kind of Fighting type wallbreaker gets walled by Blissey?)

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh, Romeo
    Thus, I don’t want to see comments like ‘your team has no physical sweepers’, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikaPika677 View Post
    Most of your team gets walled by Blissey/Chansey. As for Latios, why HP [Rock]? I know it's for Volcanora, but Surf is also good against it and stronger than HP [Rock]. HP [Fire] is better imo cause it can take out Bugs such as Scizor. Anyway, I suggest you put a physical Fighting type in there or change Infernape to physical (It's a good wallbreaker. And what kind of Fighting type wallbreaker gets walled by Blissey?)
    Guess who didn't read the post. ^^^

    Anyway, onto the rate. For Latios, when I run Specs, it seems to out speed other timid Latios' with a Timid nature I know it isn't hacked but it outruns stuff. It will also hit stuff hard.

    Lol, the only one that isn't Timid on your tea is Deoxys-S. XD

    I really, really like this team. GL in the future.
    Last edited by DarumakkaImposter; 5th September 2011 at 6:03 PM.
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    @PikaPika677: Exactly the kind of response I don't want, lol.

    Keldeo wrecks Blissey/Chansey. Alakazam and Latios run Psyshock which are 2HKO's against Blissey. Surf does minimal damage to a Volcarona, whose Sp.Def is raised by Quiver Dance. But the real reason why Surf is ineffective against Volcorona is because they are usually played on Sun teams, making Surf next to useless.

    Your post demonstrates that 1) you probably didn't read the introduction, 2) you didn't read the article and 3) you don't really understand the mechanics of Hyper Offence.

    You're supposed to to run a straight team of EITHER special or physical sweepers, because a team will generally only carry one of each type of wall. Thus, once the special wall is broken down, nothing is left to stop my team of sweepers from, well, sweeping. This team is designed however, to take down the most common special walls in the current metagame, i.e. Chansey, Blissey and and Jellicent with absolute ease.
    Not once have I ever had trouble with Blissey or any other of the big sp.def walls. Not once. xD

    I don't want to seem rude though and completely disregard your post. Your suggestion about HP[Fire] to deal with Scizor and Ferrothorn is completely viable. They wall my Latios badly. But both are covered comprehensively by Latios' teamates (Infernape, Keldeo even Alakazam's Focus Blast). Rock is just a move designed solely for Volcarona because otherwise he trolls my team xD Latios is like a specialised revenge killer designed to pick off my team's major threats in the current metagame.

    @DarumakkaImposter: Thanks for the rate! I'm really glad you liked my team, it's a lot of fun to play with. Maybe your specs Latios is winning speed ties against Life Orb Latios'? But the only type of Latios I ever seem to encounter is fellow Scarfers xD It's not too big a deal though, I usually just let their Latios OHKO mine with Meteor, and then bring Thundurus in who either scares the weakened Latios away with HP[Ice] or KO's it. Alakazam survives a weakened Meteor too and OHKO's back with Shadow Ball.



    Last edited by Oh, Romeo; 5th September 2011 at 4:54 AM.


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    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=540086

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    ^you seem to have missed sacred sword. Even psyshock on alakazam will do moderately significant damage. However, Hp fire is probably the preferred move. Also, the troll in me wants you to use a zoroark. Use the exact same set as Inge ape and have nape in the back. I know team preview makes it less usable but I've used that before and people just rage causethey think "it's a special ape, better use a psychic type" then it doesn't damage zoroark, you get a free NP, and then you proceed to sweep. You could even use sark pulse instead of night daze for the added confusion. Just a suggestion

    Edit: dear god did I get ninja'd. So yeah, ignore the Hp fire, I see your point now.
    Last edited by Mayu808; 5th September 2011 at 4:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh, Romeo View Post
    @PikaPika677: Exactly the kind of response I don't want, lol.

    Keldeo wrecks Blissey/Chansey. Alakazam and Latios run Psyshock which are 2HKO's against Blissey. Surf does minimal damage to a Volcarona, whose Sp.Def is raised by Quiver Dance. But the real reason why Surf is ineffective against Volcorona is because they are usually played on Sun teams, making Surf next to useless.

    Your post demonstrates that 1) you probably didn't read the introduction, 2) you didn't read the article and 3) you don't really understand the mechanics of Hyper Offence.

    You're supposed to to run a straight team of EITHER special or physical sweepers, because a team will generally only carry one of each type of wall. Thus, once the special wall is broken down, nothing is left to stop my team of sweepers from, well, sweeping. This team is designed however, to take down the most common special walls in the current metagame, i.e. Chansey, Blissey and and Jellicent with absolute ease.
    Not once have I ever had trouble with Blissey or any other of the big sp.def walls. Not once. xD

    I don't want to seem rude though and completely disregard your post. Your suggestion about HP[Fire] to deal with Scizor and Ferrothorn is completely viable. They wall my Latios badly. But both are covered comprehensively by Latios' teamates (Infernape, Keldeo even Alakazam's Focus Blast). Rock is just a move designed solely for Volcarona because otherwise he trolls my team xD Latios is like a specialised revenge killer designed to pick off my team's major threats in the current metagame.

    @DarumakkaImposter: Thanks for the rate! I'm really glad you liked my team, it's a lot of fun to play with. Maybe your specs Latios is winning speed ties against Life Orb Latios'? But the only type of Latios I ever seem to encounter is fellow Scarfers xD It's not too big a deal though, I usually just let their Latios OHKO mine with Meteor, and then bring Thundurus in who either scares the weakened Latios away with HP[Ice] or KO's it. Alakazam survives a weakened Meteor too and OHKO's back with Shadow Ball.



    Actually, I use a Lati without HP Fire and everyone else did. XD Maybe it's the inperfect speed IV. Lol. XD I will make a HO team now. You have inspired me. Lol. XD I've only made 2 (when I first started but I will remake some.) Thanks bud.
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    I'm glad you've been inspired Be sure to post your team too!


    Credit to Farfan for the awesome banner!

    My Hyper Offense team:
    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=540086

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    This taken from the Smogon article you posted...

    Quote Originally Posted by Smogon
    Setup sweepers are the staple of heavy offense. Setup sweepers don't have to switch after killing mons since they are free to use whatever move they want, unlike choiced sweepers, which we want to stay away from whenever possible. Choiced sweepers bring prediction into that game by being locked into a move and switching often. What this means is that choice scarfers are out of the pictuer completely, except in very very rare occasions when the team is so horrendously mean to stall that it can beat it without using the scarfer at all.
    So you're kind of contradicting yourself by using a choiced Latios sweeper, no? Maybe a Calm Mind Latios is the way to go for you if you want to run a Hyper Offense team. Because I have played Hyper Offense, and nothing gets you killed more than switching out a Choiced Pokemon. Smogon actually agrees with me for once.
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    Have you ever considered a double-boosting Lucario? Nasty Plot and Agility could make it the special Terrakion. It also gets priority in the form of Vacuum Wave, and that base 90 special fighting move that special Infernape wants so badly (even though it has one of the most competitively viable movepools in the game).
    Last edited by complete legitimacy; 5th September 2011 at 6:00 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by phoopes View Post
    This taken from the Smogon article you posted...



    So you're kind of contradicting yourself by using a choiced Latios sweeper, no? Maybe a Calm Mind Latios is the way to go for you if you want to run a Hyper Offense team. Because I have played Hyper Offense, and nothing gets you killed more than switching out a Choiced Pokemon. Smogon actually agrees with me for once.
    Hi Phoopes. I am glad you brought this point up, because it means you actually read the article, and know something about HO too Yes, using a Scarf is a direct contradiction to one of the main rules of HO. In this case, however, I had to delicately way up the positives and negatives of running it, as there are always cases when you can slightly bend the rules to your advantage.

    I'll try to keep my explanation as brief as possible to save boring you. Whilst one of the objects of Hyper Offence is to continually batter your opponent's team, effectively leaving your opponent zero space to set their own strategy up in, sometimes it simply does not work out this way. An example of an opponent completely halting my team is this: I am against a common sun team and the opponent brings out a Chlorophyll Venusaur running both both Spore and Growth against either Nape, Keldeo or Kazam. The +2 speed they get lets them Spore me to sleep. Then, whilst I'm either switching or sleeping, they Growth and suddenly it's gone from me sweeping them to being faced with a +2s.atk +2spd venusaur with instant Solarbeams and no special walls. Thus, in this scenario, and it is quite a common one, my only defense is to sacrifice whatever Pokemon is out and then bring in my Latios who, with its Scarf can still outspeed and OHKO with Draco Meteor (in combination with Stealth Rocks). That is an example of using a Choice Pokemon to my advantage.

    However, I agree with you that running a Choice Scarf Pokemon can also get me into trouble. Let's continue the example. I now have a locked in Latios with -2 Sp.Atk after the Meteor. They bring in another common sun set-up sweeper Volcarona. I switch out to Thundurus which gives them a chance to Quiver Dance. Thundurus also Lures a Volcarona into using a Fire attack the turn after they Dance instead of Bugg Buzz. Thus, I switch back into Latios who resists the move. And then, because he is Scarfed, can still outspeed a +1 spd Volcarona and proceed to OHKO with HP[Rock].

    I hope that was not too long-winded Basically, whilst I agree that getting locked into a move allows my opponent a chance to set up, Latios is usually quick and powerful enough to switch back in and revenge it anyways. HO isn't always completely successful in making it impossible for an opponent's Pokemon to set-up and Latios is my back-up plan for when that does happen. I feel its positives out-weight its negatives =]

    I'm sorry that was way too long lol!

    @complete legitimacy: That is a fantastic idea and one that I have admittedly overlooked. He would have to take the place of Alakazam as a late-game sweeper. I can also see a lot of opportunity in the current metagame to set-up aswell. Such as switching him into an opponent's Scarfed Latios using Draco Meteor. Resists the move because of his typing, then sets up whilst they switch. I will try it out! Thanks for the suggestion mate


    EDIT: @Mayu808 thanks for the rate and suggestion. I am open to trying out Zoroark I have used him before in a previous team and he is fun to use. I will have to see how viable he is with Team Preview. I am also concerned about the common nature of Mach Punch but he is a cool Pokemon and I will give him a little run in the team tonight.
    Last edited by Oh, Romeo; 5th September 2011 at 4:46 PM.


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    Don't worry, no explanation is too long-winded for me. I can certainly see where you're coming from now that you've went into detail. Personally, I use Calm Mind Latios on my Hyper Offensive team, but if you want to scarf yours, that's fine too.

    However, I think that I can provide a better set for you...

    Latios@Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Pressure
    EV Spread: 252 SpA/252 Spe/ 4 Whatever
    Moveset:
    Draco Meteor
    Thunderbolt
    Surf
    Hidden Power (Fire)

    You know all the stuff with EV's, items, and nature. It's the moveset where I thought you could do better. Draco Meteor because it obviously wrecks everything with its STAB power. You have Surf instead of HP Rock for Volcarona, and HP Fire doesn't give you that imperfect Speed IV that you worried about. (I think) Plus, you can actually hurt Ferrothorn now. Thunderbolt is for coverage. No Psyshock because you already have a user of that and a user of Secret Sword.

    Hope that helped!
    Last edited by Phoopes; 5th September 2011 at 5:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoopes View Post
    Don't worry, no explanation is too long-winded for me. I can certainly see where you're coming from now that you've went into detail. Personally, I use Calm Mind Latios on my Hyper Offensive team, but if you want to scarf yours, that's fine too.

    However, I think that I can provide a better set for you...

    Latios@Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Pressure
    EV Spread: 252 SpA/252 Spe/ 4 Whatever
    Moveset:
    Draco Meteor
    Thunderbolt
    Surf
    Hidden Power (Fire)

    You know all the stuff with EV's, items, and nature. It's the moveset where I thought you could do better. Draco Meteor because it obviously wrecks everything with its STAB power. You have Surf instead of HP Rock for Volcarona, and HP Fire doesn't give you that imperfect Speed IV that you worried about. (I think) Plus, you can actually hurt Ferrothorn now. Thunderbolt is for coverage. No Psyshock because you already have a user of that and a user of Secret Sword.

    Hope that helped!
    1. No Psyshock to get rid of Blissey/Chansey?
    2. It does give an imperfect speed IV
    3. He has already explained why he has chosen HP [Rock]
    4. Latios can't get Pressure.

    Where did you get that info phoopes?
    Last edited by DarumakkaImposter; 5th September 2011 at 6:04 PM.
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    1. He has Alakazam and Keldeo to get rid of them. (Psyshock and Secret Sword, respectively)
    2. I thought it didn't. My mistake.
    3. I was giving an alternative to HP Rock to get rid of Volcarona (Surf) since he didn't have a water move anywhere in his team. Plus, I thought I was getting rid of the imperfect Speed IV. Again, my mistake.
    4. I assumed Latios had Pressure, like most legendaries. But it has Levitate. *facepalm* Shold've known that. Again, my mistake.
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    Still phoopes, HP [Rock] is used to take care of Volcarona. It is commonly used on sun teams, where Surf will be worthless. HP [Fire] won't do anything to Volcarona. Latios is his last resort, so if Alakazam and Keldeo are dead (if you remember HO doesn't switch like ever) Latios is there to get rid of Blissey/Chansey if they are still there.
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    Hey phoopes, thanks again for taking the time to post.

    I'm afraid I have to agree with the majority of Darumakka's points, though.

    The set you posted is indeed very viable (albeit the minor errors) and I would agree with you if Latios was being used as a kind of standard sweeper, like my other four.

    But Latios' role in the team is very specific. He is designed to target and eliminate a small handful of threats i.e. set-up dragons, Volcarona and Excadrill, that the rest of my team have trouble overcoming.

    The set you posted would be more effective on a Latios that's purpose is to sweep itself, but my Latios is simply there to remove a small cluster of Pokemon blocking my four other sweepers from sweeping.

    Darumakka, you hit the nail on the head almost every time. I can tell you are a great user of Hyper Offense


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    Lol. Thanks. It's the only thing I'm really good at besides music.

    Yes phoopes your set is good as Romeo has stated but HP and Surf will be albeit useless like Romeo has stated.
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    The team is still doing well I've got it down to #65 on the server but am still facing difficulty against the plethora of sun teams. Don't people have any originality? The teams are powerful, but nearly all identical...so boring!


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    Lol. I find sun teams are the most common and the most used. What's the pokemon that you have seen the most besides ninetails? Mine is Venasaur. I can't say anything more about your team other thatn its really good.
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    Never use a choice item user in a HO team.

    As long as you don't play badly, next to nothing will get the chance to set up on you, meaning you do not need anything to check mons.

    Also, Alakazam does not outspeed Starmie. They have the same speed. You don't even speed tie, due to the IV loss from HP Fire.

    Consider Focus Blast on Ape, it OHKOes standard Blissey with rocks down 100% of the time. This means you have a team slot open over Keledo. Wish CM Jirachi could maybe work here to help with the fight against Venusaur, as long as it lacks EQ/HP Fire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingbino11 View Post
    Never use a choice item user in a HO team.

    As long as you don't play badly, next to nothing will get the chance to set up on you, meaning you do not need anything to check mons.

    Also, Alakazam does not outspeed Starmie. They have the same speed. You don't even speed tie, due to the IV loss from HP Fire.

    Consider Focus Blast on Ape, it OHKOes standard Blissey with rocks down 100% of the time. This means you have a team slot open over Keledo. Wish CM Jirachi could maybe work here to help with the fight against Venusaur, as long as it lacks EQ/HP Fire.
    Hi gingbino11, thanks for commenting.

    I know I broke one of the golden rules of HO by using the Scarf, but truly, a lot of my battles have been won because of it. It's the one rule I have bent slightly, and I was reluctant to do so, but the results speak for themselves - for he is my counter to opponent's sweepers who are Scarfed, which, without Latios to counter, have a field day with a team devoid of walls.

    Besides, whilst I consider my battling skills to be quite considerable, that is, I'm not exactly a noob, I am human and thus prone to a mistake in the heat of battle. xD Furthermore, as I demonstrated with the Venusaur/Spore example, sometimes there is simply nothing I can do to prevent an opponent from setting up.

    I am afraid I must correct you with regards to Starmie, who has 115 base speed, whilst Alakazam has 120 base speed.

    I will indeed consider Focus Blast on my Infernape. It is a OHKO with or without a NP boost? I didn't realise it was so powerful, although thus far, Blissey has posed no threat to this team, as my two users of Psyshock can usually deal with it, if the case may be that Keldeo suffers a premature KO.

    Thanks again, I really appreciate your comment. The Focus Blast suggestion was most helpful, and I will test it out straight away.


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  21. #21
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    Your Deoxysis perfect taunt bait.... Except for the fact that it outspeeds everything... Is this OU or uber? This is a great team because 90% of teams have a physical wall and when they switch in on your ape you kill them with special attacks.
    Last edited by PurpleOshawatt; 12th September 2011 at 1:57 AM.
    If you challenge me, You lose. If I challenge you, you lose. See how it all works out? Wins with new team- 8 losses with new team-0

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleOshawatt View Post
    Your Deoxysis perfect taunt bait.... Except for the fact that it outspeeds everything... Is this OU or uber? This is a great team because 90% of teams have a physical wall and when they switch in on your ape you kill them with special attacks.
    Yeah, Deoxys has the fastest Taunt in the game other than Prankster leads. If your opponent leads with a Prankster lead though, i.e. Liepard, Sableye it's just so obvious that they are going to Taunt you that I switch into a sweeper to take the Taunt, Latios being the preferable switch in because it doesn't need to set up. In this case, they either WoW and die, or switch out. WoW doesn't bother my special sweepers any way. If they switch out, I've got my own Prankster Taunt in Thundurus to completely shut down theirs in the latter stages of the battle.

    Yeah Infernape and Keldeo are definitely great wall breakers. Infernape OHKO's almost every single Pokemon opponents use to 'check' him with a +2 Grass Knot, such as Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Jellicent, Miltioc, Gyara, Quagsire, Swampert, pretty much every bulky water or ground type wall succumbs to him

    I'm glad you liked my team, thanks for commenting!
    Last edited by Oh, Romeo; 12th September 2011 at 2:35 AM.


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  23. #23

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    Signal Beam > Shadow Ball on Celebi for Celebi, weakened Tar and such.

    Also, I will hopefully have time later to do a full on rate. This team looks really weak to Spec'd Latios, like.. very weak to it. Even with Dual Screens, Spec'd Latios could switch into Keldeo or Infernape and just spam Meteor.

    You have no safe switchins, and it can just switch out to a steel when you send in Latios/Alakazam etc. This team also loses to Offensive Trick Room Reuniclus. Rock Polish Terrakion is also very threatening with Sand up to make Vacuum Wave weaker. DD Extreme Speed Dragonite also has a ton of potential to run through your entire team. Want to know why? You run Scarfed Latios to allow them to set up for free. This team really needs Scizor, but as I said.. I am a lazy to do a full on rate.

    Thunder Wave > Taunt on Thunderus would help against Terrakion and Dragonite. Although I would rather make the team water tight without the need of Latios, since of how Pursuit bait it actually is. In other words, I think Scarfed Latios isn't for this team.
    Last edited by Gamefreak; 13th September 2011 at 2:32 PM.


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamefreak View Post
    Signal Beam > Shadow Ball on Celebi for Celebi, weakened Tar and such.

    Also, I will hopefully have time later to do a full on rate. This team looks really weak to Spec'd Latios, like.. very weak to it. Even with Dual Screens, Spec'd Latios could switch into Keldeo or Infernape and just spam Meteor.

    You have no safe switchins, and it can just switch out to a steel when you send in Latios/Alakazam etc. This team also loses to Offensive Trick Room Reuniclus. Rock Polish Terrakion is also very threatening with Sand up to make Vacuum Wave weaker. DD Extreme Speed Dragonite also has a ton of potential to run through your entire team. Want to know why? You run Scarfed Latios to allow them to set up for free. This team really needs Scizor, but as I said.. I am a lazy to do a full on rate.

    Thunder Wave > Taunt on Thunderus would help against Terrakion and Dragonite. Although I would rather make the team water tight without the need of Latios, since of how Pursuit bait it actually is. In other words, I think Scarfed Latios isn't for this team.
    Hey thanks for the comment.

    Spec Latios loses to Alakazam. If they bring in Latios on my Infernape or Keldeo, I sacrifice them and bring out either Alakazam, who outspeeds and OHKO's with Shadow Ball, or my own Latios (if they do not know it is Scarfed yet).

    There is nothing wrong with them switching out to a Steel when they see 'Zam, Latios. It means once again they are on the back foot. Alakzam's HP[Fire] deals with most Steels (who will most likely already have been dealt with by Keldeo, Infernape) anyways.

    Regardless, I am currently #22 on Smogon's ladder (Nothing TOO impressive yet, but it's still dropping fast, this team can go a lot further) after about 180 battles with this team (in various forms) and usually only run into Scarf Latios. I haven't seen a Specs Latios in forever - probably because they are owned by DD Salamence, Nite and Scrafty, all common OU threats. In fact, CMLATIAS poses a FAR bigger problem to this team.

    TR Reuniclus is a threat, but it's not common. I'm not going to completely change the dynamics of my team to fit around an uncommon strategy. But you are right when you say that when it does pop up, it will be a nuisance to deal with. Although Prankster Taunt with Thundurus shuts it down a bit.

    I don't know why you suggest Thunder Wave is better than Taunt for Terrakion and Dragonite, because if they have been Taunted, they can't set up at all. Keldeo is my designated Terrakion killer, but Alakazam, Keldeo and Latios are all capable of OHKO'ing Terrakion, and I know you are saying that he can set up on Infernape, but then you also think I'd use Vacuum Wave on it and not Grass Knot - lol. Terrakion isn't as big a threat to this team as you'd think.

    Finally, I don't think you totally understand how I use Latios. Dragonite won't set up BECAUSE of Latios, because I never bring him in unless it's to deal with threats LIKE Dragonite. If he has somehow managed to set up a DD on one of my other Pokemon, Latios can be called in to revenge it. If Latios wasn't scarfed, a Dragonite at +1, or any sweeper that has set up will roll through my frail team. I need a fail safe to be able to revenge any Pokemon that has managed against the odds to set up.

    Latios is my check to Dragonite who has ALREADY set up, and thus, Dragonite won't be setting up BECAUSE of it.

    I do agree though that running a Scarf has its negatives, but it also has its positives. What I'm trying to say is though that I've weighed up the options and having the Scarf has worked out better for me - provided you are careful and use it correctly, I am not a noob at battling. xD

    Besides, you also need to look at what Pokemon actually use Pursuit - TTar and Scizor. If either of them Pursuit my Latios, I bring in Keldeo and Infernape respectively, meaning a free set up.

    Thanks for the comments, I do understand what you are saying but I think only Reuniclus is as big a threat as you suggest, but again, it is rare to see Trick Room at the top end of the ladder where Weather and stall is more prominent.
    Last edited by Oh, Romeo; 13th September 2011 at 4:39 PM.


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  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh, Romeo View Post
    Hey thanks for the comment.

    Spec Latios loses to Alakazam. If they bring in Latios on my Infernape or Keldeo, I sacrifice them and bring out either Alakazam, who outspeeds and OHKO's with Shadow Ball, or my own Latios (if they do not know it is Scarfed yet). Alakazam can't switch in, and Latios would switch. Most Latios run HP Fire, so they will most definitly switch against your Latios assuming you do not run HP Fire.

    There is nothing wrong with them switching out to a Steel when they see 'Zam, Latios. It means once again they are on the back foot. Alakzam's HP[Fire] deals with most Steels (who will most likely already have been dealt with by Keldeo, Infernape) anyways.It is fighting an uphill battle though. If you are down 4-6, and your screens are beginning to run out.. Alakazam just won't save you. Nothing is stopping the same Latios from switching into Infernape, or Keldeo yet again and getting another free kill. You run both of them on the same team, both of them end up let Spec'd Latios get a free kill against you. Possibly twice during the same game. You probably need a steel.

    Regardless, I am currently #22 on Smogon's ladder (Nothing TOO impressive yet, but it's still dropping fast, this team can go a lot further) after about 180 battles with this team (in various forms) and usually only run into Scarf Latios. I haven't seen a Specs Latios in forever - probably because they are owned by DD Salamence, Nite and Scrafty, all common OU threats. In fact, CMLATIAS poses a FAR bigger problem to this team. Eh, CM Latias is a legit threat to this team. Spec'd Latios is not owned by DD Salamence, Dragonite, or Scrafty though. He can OHKO all of them with a Spec'd Draco Meteor.

    TR Reuniclus is a threat, but it's not common. I'm not going to completely change the dynamics of my team to fit around an uncommon strategy. But you are right when you say that when it does pop up, it will be a nuisance to deal with. Although Prankster Taunt with Thundurus shuts it down a bit.In BW OU, it is rising in popularity because SpD Jirachi is dropping play a bit.

    I don't know why you suggest Thunder Wave is better than Taunt for Terrakion and Dragonite, because if they have been Taunted, they can't set up at all. Keldeo is my designated Terrakion killer, but Alakazam, Keldeo and Latios are all capable of OHKO'ing Terrakion, and I know you are saying that he can set up on Infernape, but then you also think I'd use Vacuum Wave on it and not Grass Knot - lol. Terrakion isn't as big a threat to this team as you'd think. They set up on your Latios locked into the wrong move, and Keldeo won't enjoy a CC.

    Finally, I don't think you totally understand how I use Latios. Dragonite won't set up BECAUSE of Latios, because I never bring him in unless it's to deal with threats LIKE Dragonite. If he has somehow managed to set up a DD on one of my other Pokemon, Latios can be called in to revenge it. If Latios wasn't scarfed, a Dragonite at +1, or any sweeper that has set up will roll through my frail team. I need a fail safe to be able to revenge any Pokemon that has managed against the odds to set up. That isn't the point. If Latios is locked into another move, the window of opportunity is there to set up. Realistically, Latios could use Surf to deal with another threat and let you be vulnerable to Dragonite.

    Latios is my check to Dragonite who has ALREADY set up, and thus, Dragonite won't be setting up BECAUSE of it.

    I do agree though that running a Scarf has its negatives, but it also has its positives. What I'm trying to say is though that I've weighed up the options and having the Scarf has worked out better for me - provided you are careful and use it correctly, I am not a noob at battling. xD

    Besides, you also need to look at what Pokemon actually use Pursuit - TTar and Scizor. If either of them Pursuit my Latios, I bring in Keldeo and Infernape respectively, meaning a free set up. I know that, that is my favorite part about Heavy Offense. However, that doesn't help with your other weaknesses. You have Scarfed Latios for a reason as you said, but if it gets Pursuited - then you have yet another gaping hole with what Scarfed Latios was meant to check. Some priority or a steel may prove useful.

    Thanks for the comments, I do understand what you are saying but I think only Reuniclus is as big a threat as you suggest, but again, it is rare to see Trick Room at the top end of the ladder where Weather and stall is more prominent.
    I hope I helped. :<

    Great job with the success with it. Hopefully later I will think of an actual fix.
    Last edited by Gamefreak; 13th September 2011 at 5:36 PM.


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