The Hip Hop Thread - for the nerds that think they're black

[Hammerheart]

Todays rap......... it seriously sucks hardcore. 95% of the rappers out now can't even flow, they got lame beats, all they talk about is smoking weed, women, how they got money stacked to the roof, they're cars with giant rims, beef with other rappers, and having sex with hoes. Hip Hop is literally dead. I'm tired of hearing about how good Lil Wayne, Soulja Boy, Ca$h Out, Waka Flocka Flame, ect is when in reality they are the scum of rap music. There rappers are giving Hip Hop a bad name.

Oh how naive you are. Certainly there's an argument for elements of that being true in the mainstream. But if you dig around there's some fantastic artists about, certainly on the more spiritual/esoteric side of the genre. Here's a mix of tracks that I posted before, all came out after the year 2000.

Anybody remember Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Wu Tang Clan, NWA? Respectively the best Hip Hop groups that stepped into the game. What about solo artists like Tupac, old Eminem, Ice Cube, Snoop Doggy Dogg, Nas, DMX, Busta Rhymes, etc that's real rap right there. If you want real rap NOW you gotta go in the underground. The mainstream is filled with whack rappers, Hollywood rappers, money hungry music industries. Underground where it's at; the underground has Tech N9ne, Hopsin, Immortal Technique, Elzhi, B.o.B., Royce Da 5'9", Yelawolf, Krizz Kaliko, etc. They rap about real stuff, have good beats, know how to flow, and they got the image.

Anybody remember Dr. Dre? Mr. NWA, the dude that put so many rappers into the game and made them famous? Rappers now a days don't respect what he's done to rap. You can tell because they put all the greats to a disgrace. If Tupac was still alive there whack rappers would be homeless.

What happened to rappers with good flow, beats, lyrics, punchlines, rhythm, etc. Idk see all the hype with Drake either cos that dude sucks!

I see you sort of made up by acknowledging good stuff exists. I think the problem is your assuming that the appreciation of the masses in the chats count for anything. Like it or not, propper rap isn't popular. However music by it's nature is objective, the sounds you hear don't change based on popularity. So as long as there are artists out there making real music that you can acess, then I don't think it's really worth complaining about.

edit:
Unmastered track from the upcoming Jewelz Infinate album

[ShinyUmbreon189]

That's where you'd be wrong. It's easy to say that the hip-hop of today is "wack" however it just means I question what you have been listening to. It's also easy to point to the culprits of artists such as Drake, Lil'|Wayne...in fact the entire Young Money roster and others and deride them for churning out hit songs with lazy lyrics but I think at this point in time these artists are more concerned with making money and having a hit song.

Not only that but even in the 80's and 90's you would also get similar sort of artists with terrible songs, it's just that when reminiscing over the past you tend to overlook the terrible artists and songs and I've no doubt that in 10 years time that's what people will do to this generation of songs.

Personally to say that today's hip-hop sucks is just an uneducated view to take as leads me to question whether you've actually heard artists such as Big K.R.I.T, Kendrick Lamar and in fact the entire Black Hippy collective or even Nas, Lupe Fiasco, Killer Mike and that's artists who have put out very good albums this year.

Have you actually listened to any of these artists are you convinced that Lil' Wayne and Soulja Boy are the be-all and end-all of hip-hop today?

Apparently you know nothing about the music industry. Back then rappers had to have skill, voice, flow, beats without a machine doing it for them, etc. Now rappers use voice changers, rely on technology, and have other people write they're lyrics for them. Don't believe me research underground hip hop and mainstream hip hop. Trust me I've been researching rap for 6 years now and I'm a rapper on top of that. Yes I've listened to Soulja Boy, Lil Wayne, Drake, etc. They got catch beats and in some cases catchy hooks (don't know what a hook is look it up) but can't rap to save they're life. Name at least 5 songs by Lil Wayne that's not about what I mentioned above. You can't because there isn't that many. Back then rappers didn't rap about this stuff they rapped about what they saw on the streets and the way they grew up. Mainstream rappers are trying to rap and sing at the same time (Drake), rap about stuff that this generation is brainwashed by. I'll post a song by Hopsin talking about how today's rap brainwashed so many teens.

I wouldn't exactly blame the artists for the bad lyrics, flow, meaning, etc. It's actually the power and money hungry music industries. Say a rapper makes 16 songs for an album usually none of them get sold unless the music industry changes the sound, lyrics, and flow to what they want. They want every rapper in they're business to kiss they're *** and they actually do. I've heard Lil Waynes underground stuff his freestyle outside of industry stuff and it's actually really good. But once you get sucked into the music industry your they're slave. You can't sound what you wanna sound like without them complaining, you can't talk about what you want without them complaining, etc. So I blame the music industry for this aka mainstream. Seriously go underground and you'll see what I mean. You will find a big difference in the way the rap.

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Oh how naive you are. Certainly there's an argument for elements of that being true in the mainstream. But if you dig around there's some fantastic artists about, certainly on the more spiritual/esoteric side of the genre. Here's a mix of tracks that I posted before, all came out after the year 2000.


I see you sort of made up by acknowledging good stuff exists. I think the problem is your assuming that the appreciation of the masses in the chats count for anything. Like it or not, propper rap isn't popular. However music by it's nature is objective, the sounds you hear don't change based on popularity. So as long as there are artists out there making real music that you can acess, then I don't think it's really worth complaining about.

edit:
Unmastered track from the upcoming Jewelz Infinate album

Name 5 good rappers in mainstream now. I can name at least 30 good rappers today that are underground and at least 20 good rappers back then. It's the music industry changing the image not the rappers. Once you get into mainstream your kissing the owners ***. They screw you over big time why do you think Immortal Technique, Hopsin, Tech N9ne, etc got out of the music industry and went back to underground? Sure they own they're own label but they're still strictly underground so the people that are signed with them get to sound what they want like. Most of the time Hopsin and Tech N9ne get asked to make beats by the people they signed because they're good at it. So I say mainstream sucks and hip hop is dead.

[KickAsh]

Cruel Summer is a fantastic album.

That is all.

[J-Myc]

So you basically just ignored what everyone else said then did you. Cool. Like Hammerheart said Underground rap just isn't popular and for many reasons. You can complain all you like about it but it is what it is and it's not that hard to understand why it's like that.

You may dislike what is in the mainstream due to irrational hatred of music industries but Hip-hop is not dead at all, despite what you may claim.

[ShinyUmbreon189]

So you basically just ignored what everyone else said then did you. Cool. Like Hammerheart said Underground rap just isn't popular and for many reasons. You can complain all you like about it but it is what it is and it's not that hard to understand why it's like that.

You may dislike what is in the mainstream due to irrational hatred of music industries but Hip-hop is not dead at all, despite what you may claim.

Hip Hop's not dead because underground rappers keep it alive. There are very few mainstream rappers that are okay. Underground isn't popular because people would rather hear whack rappers. Believe it or not most people that listen to rap and know about rap will agree that hip hop is dead and underground keeps it alive.

[J-Myc]

Oh so suddenly Hip-Hop is not dead you say. While this ultimately is going to come down to personal preference I disagree with the fact that a "few mainstream rappers are okay" simply because there is more than enough good rappers that are out these days.

Personally I believe that the underground isn't popular simply because it's not that accessible to everyone.

[TheotherLati]

^ As you mentoned, it all comes down to personal preference. Granted that some songs do sound better than others, it gets very repetitve and old... at least to me that is.

As for underground being not as popluar, it isn't because of that. In the music industry, record companies scan various artists, see what they have to offer and often make decions if that song is going to be profitable and a hit when released. They couldn't care less of what's being said rather than what they as a company would get out of it. It's really all about the money, rather than the actual message being portrayed in the song itself.

Hip Hop's not dead because underground rappers keep it alive. There are very few mainstream rappers that are okay. Underground isn't popular because people would rather hear whack rappers. Believe it or not most people that listen to rap and know about rap will agree that hip hop is dead and underground keeps it alive.

That's very true. Hell, half the stuff you hear on the radio today isn't even comparable to how hip hop was REALLY like a decade ago. Lyrically, some many of them don't make any bit if sense but yet still manage to sell millions of albums...

I'm very surprsied someone posted a video of Hopsin, one of the very few artists that thoroughly explains how corrput mainstream hip hop and society is nowadays.

[ShinyUmbreon189]

As for underground being not as popluar, it isn't because of that. In the music industry, record companies scan various artists, see what they have to offer and often make decions if that song is going to be profitable and a hit when released. They couldn't care less of what's being said rather than what they as a company would get out of it. It's really all about the money, rather than the actual message being portrayed in the song itself.



That's very true. Hell, half the stuff you hear on the radio today isn't even comparable to how hip hop was REALLY like a decade ago. Lyrically, some many of them don't make any bit if sense but yet still manage to sell millions of albums...

I'm very surprsied someone posted a video of Hopsin, one of the very few artists that thoroughly explains how corrput mainstream hip hop and society is nowadays.

Yea I posted it to prove that hip hop is dead. Hopsin isn't the best rapper out but I'll give him the top 10 best rappers out today. Eminem is a "was" now he's a sell out. He's making all these love songs and it's just not him. We want the old Eminem back the Slim Shady/Mashall Mathers and most people would agree. But as you said rappers don't make any sense and yet they still sell millions of albums. I can almost guarantee you that if underground rappers were played on the radio then they would sell 100x more albums than mainstream. I've listened to Hopsin's album RAW and every single song was good. If you buy a mainstream rappers album then 1 song is good.

The main reason why underground rappers aren't that popular is because they get no radio time. Underground rappers get asked all the time to get signed and they turn it down, why? That's because they don't wanna be sucked up into the industry and lose all the reputation they had. Sure they'll sell a bunch of albums but they wont be good anymore. The reason why rappers go in mainstream is for money. They don't care that they're music sounds like trash all they want is money. Underground rappers aren't in it for the money. They're in it to send a message with lyrics and have fun rapping without someone changing the way they sound. They'd rather have fans come see them on tour than sell records; even tho they don't get to perform in front of a huge crowd. So in terms of respect, I'd give it to underground rappers for not being greedy and money hungry. Why do you think they sound better? It's because they sound the way they wanna sound without the industry up they're *** about it.

Actually believe it or not, some underground rappers are VERY popular. How popular is Tech N9ne, Hopsin, MF Doom, Immortal Technique, etc. They have all sold millions of albums but Hopsin but he's getting there. All of Tech N9ne's albums were gold even tho he never got any radio time. He tried to get on the radio but they turned him down. Why? Because they don't wanna lose money by putting other rappers out of business in the mainstream. In reality, all those radio industries like Tech N9ne but he'd get played so much from his good music that the company's would lose money. If I can remember there was only 1 song that got played on radio and that was Caribou Lou. Tech N9ne made it because he wanted to be on the radio why do you think he never plays it live? It's not a terrible song, for him it is but against all the other rappers its a platinum hit.

[Hammerheart]

Name 5 good rappers in mainstream now. I can name at least 30 good rappers today that are underground and at least 20 good rappers back then.

You seem to have completely missed my point. I'm not trying to suggest there are good mainstream rappers. The only one I could really say is Lupe Fiasco, but he's barely mainstream. What I'm saying is why does it matter if a rapper is mainstream or not? You can still enjoy an underground artist, and ultimately as long as you enjoy what you hear, what does it matter to you how many other people listen to them. Cosmic Crusader's Cosmicalculations part 1 has been one of my favourite EP's this year. On last.fm there are only 53 listeners. You don't get much more underground than that. But I don't care. It's the music I listen to, and the music is good, and that's all that matters.

It's the music industry changing the image not the rappers. Once you get into mainstream your kissing the owners ***.

It's interesting, Rasul Allah 7 from the LCOB suggested a similar thing. He was saying how the laid back spiritual stuff Wu-Tang had going on was popular, but then the labels changed what was popular. But that's nothing new. I was watching a documentary about the Bee-Gee's, and they were saying how they were told that was it after the 60's, bands are 'decade bands' and once the 60's were over they reinvented things for the 70's. Now the Bee Gee's adapted and survived. But it goes to show there's a lot underhand politics going on the mainstream.

They screw you over big time why do you think Immortal Technique, Hopsin, Tech N9ne, etc got out of the music industry and went back to underground? Sure they own they're own label but they're still strictly underground so the people that are signed with them get to sound what they want like. Most of the time Hopsin and Tech N9ne get asked to make beats by the people they signed because they're good at it. So I say mainstream sucks and hip hop is dead.

I don't get why it's a problem. These days mainstream hip hop is basically pop music. It serves a purpose, but isn't representative of the genre as a whole. I don't understand why good artists not being mainstream is bothering you so much.

Apparently you know nothing about the music industry. Back then rappers had to have skill, voice, flow, beats without a machine doing it for them, etc. Now rappers use voice changers, rely on technology, and have other people write they're lyrics for them.

Apparently you know nothing about how music is produced. Beats without using a machine? How many artists used live drummers on releases do you think? Go back to the early days, the sound of the Roland TR-808 drum machine used by Afrika Bambaataa or the Oberheim DMX drum machine used by Grandmaster Flash. How do you think sampling works?
Reading an interview with Stretch the Mad Scientist who did the Lost Children of Babylon's 911 album, he uses pro tools. There's nothing wrong with using technology to your advantage as long as it's used correctly and not misused. There seems a trend these days to be anti pro-tools and equate it with soulless music which isn't the case. Hip Hop has always been about technology and innovation ways of producing music.

[ShinyUmbreon189]

^ I just don't like what rap has become. It's all about money and nothing more. I find it ridiculous that you gotta go to old school or underground to find good stuff. If you know what "flow" is then you would understand what I'm saying. You gotta have flow to be considered a good rapper. Most radio can't flow now. Wiz Khalifa is mainstream but he doesn't "suck". I wouldn't say he's that good either but he can "flow". This Plane is a good example of flow. Or Hero "freestyle". Rakim has the best flow I've ever heard. Fat Joe has good flow cos he can switch it around, Biggie is another example of a good flow rapper, Bun B, Nas, Ice Cube, Tupac, Eminem, etc have great flow as well. Without flow it's not rap. Just because you can rhyme in a song doesn't mean it's good. You don't gotta rhyme for it to be a song. I've heard lots of good rappers make songs where they didn't rhyme really at all. Rhyming just shows the skill you possess. I'm not talking about rhymes like dog, hog, fog, fall, call, ball, flow, blow, dro, oh, etc. I'm talking about 2 or more syllabul words like. Remember, dismember, December, century, penitentiary, cemetery, miracle, spiritual, lyrical, etc. Flow is what makes it sound good and mainstream don't have that.

[Hammerheart]

But rap hasn't become anything, just a different niche of it is in the spotlight at the moment. Why is it a problem that you have to look underground or go old school? Just because the good stuff isn't popular doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's still there and for all underground implies that it's hard to come by, it really isn't. Yeah I get it can be frustrating that people percieve the genre to be something it's not, but at the end of the day, I like what I like and the opinions and validations of others are of no consequence to me.

And I'll admit I am somewhat new to the genre, but I feel know what flow is.
What do you think of this? Would you say he has a good flow? I feel he does, but like I say, I'm no expert.

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Eh, I can't really decide. It's just weird lol. Here I'll post a song and I want you to listen to it maybe this will help you learn what flow is.



Basically flow is the rhythm the rapper uses when spitting a bar. The emphasis and pitch makes it up too.

[Hammerheart]

Yeah I thought so, the phrasing and where your beats fall in your sentences and how you structure them and stuff.
That track didn't grab me much, I think for me personally the actual musical element is just as important as the rapping. I think that's why I love the Lost Children of Babylon's first album so much. But your track just felt a bit safe/generic from a musical standpoint.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtzGcloH6kw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPsxjulLsiE

[ShinyUmbreon189]

The first rapper sounds similar to a Immortal Technique/Nas. Yea he can flow pretty well. What's up with all the science stuff tho?


Imo this dude one of the best flow in rap now.

[Hammerheart]

Put bluntly I find the Science stuff (which in the case of the Lost Children of Babylon usually relates to Nuwaubian teachings such as Dr. York's The Holy Tablets) interesting. I like spiritual stuff, I like mythological stuff, I like conspiracy theories, and I like the sort of pseudo-science esoteric knowledge stuff. It's interesting to listen to, and I feel it helps with the overall feel. It's subject matter that is less grounded in reality and as such I feel it becomes something else, something more ethereal, more transcendent. But of course the music and beats are very important with that, the new age dreamy laid back feel coupled with rhymes about really deep stuff just add to the overall.

I don't really care about life in the getto rapped over some hard hitting but musically sparse beat. I acknowledge there's an audience for it, but it's not my thing.

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Put bluntly I find the Science stuff (which in the case of the Lost Children of Babylon usually relates to Nuwaubian teachings such as Dr. York's The Holy Tablets) interesting. I like spiritual stuff, I like mythological stuff, I like conspiracy theories, and I like the sort of pseudo-science esoteric knowledge stuff. It's interesting to listen to, and I feel it helps with the overall feel. It's subject matter that is less grounded in reality and as such I feel it becomes something else, something more ethereal, more transcendent. But of course the music and beats are very important with that, the new age dreamy laid back feel coupled with rhymes about really deep stuff just add to the overall.

I don't really care about life in the getto rapped over some hard hitting but musically sparse beat. I acknowledge there's an audience for it, but it's not my thing.

I respect that. Not everyone's gonna like the same rapper and I know that. Some people prefer Gangsta rap over inustrial rap, freestyle over crunk rap, underground over ragga rap etc. There's lots of different genres inside the rap genre and most people only like a couple of them.

[Hammerheart]

Yeah very true. It's the same with most genre's, you just have to explore a bit and find your niche.
I've been into metal for about 11 years now, and there's styles/sub-genres I still don't like or listen to.

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Yeah very true. It's the same with most genre's, you just have to explore a bit and find your niche.
I've been into metal for about 11 years now, and there's styles/sub-genres I still don't like or listen to.

Same here. Metal and rap is my music. I got into rap about 6 years ago but really started getting into it about a year ago even tho I researched for 5 to 6 years. I just think underground sounds good. I respect all rappers for what they do even they might suck. They may have a family and rarely see them because of they're music and that's why I respect them. I couldn't handle staying up 40 hours straight recording 1 song, I couldn't handle performing at a show and not sleeping because of another show, they go through a lot and that's why I respect them. Whether it be Lil Wayne, Waka Flocka, or Soulja Boy. I respect Tupac and Dr. Dre the most for what they did to rap. They changed how rap sounded for a better and not worse. Listen to the song Changes by Tupac. People say, "Oh Tupac's just a thug, he only raps about gangsta stuff, killing people, raping people, etc." when in reality he wanted to "change" the world. He wanted to end the wars on the streets, end the gangs selling drugs to the youth, change the way we treat eachother and for that I got nothing but mutual respect for the man.

[Dragontail]

Anyone hear "Thrift Shop" from Macklemore? Quite an interesting song.

[Hammerheart]

Here's my first hip hop album of 2013 that I've got, and it's also free which is quite nice. Some nice features too like Bliss and White Lotus. (even if I do still find it weird listening to Antahkarana Heru Ki Nabu because of his French.)


http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/xr03fy

[lollygag]

I always liked 50 Cent. His lyrics were hilarious. My favorite song of his is "Candy Shop".

[John Wallrein]

Anyone hear "Thrift Shop" from Macklemore? Quite an interesting song.

I'm gonna pop some tags

I always liked 50 Cent. His lyrics were hilarious. My favorite song of his is "Candy Shop".

hahaha that was a good song. So deep...


Anyway my favorite artist right now is Lupe Fiasco. Not in any specific order but my top 5 favorite songs of his:

1. Battle Scars
2. Words I Never Said
3. Never Forget You
4. Little Weapon
5. Around My Way

honorable mentions:

The Die
The Show Goes On

[Geekachu]

going off Rezzo's thread, I'm interested as to whether anyone's listened to Kanye West's new album 'Yeezus' yet, which leaked online yesterday.

Personally I was somewhat disappointed. It starts off really strong imo but then I felt that the standard slipped.

[Hankka]

going off Rezzo's thread, I'm interested as to whether anyone's listened to Kanye West's new album 'Yeezus' yet, which leaked online yesterday.

Personally I was somewhat disappointed. It starts off really strong imo but then I felt that the standard slipped.

Just listened to it also, I have to say I've been a huge fan of his earlier work (even if he is an *******, his music was great), but this new album is just so.... weird. It doesn't have much going for it and most of the songs just appear to be made using the same mold over and over again.

I was definitely expecting more from this album.