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Thread: Rock on SPPf!

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Tyrant View Post
    i don't think punk is dead. it's just a lot different.

    nowadays you have stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEgWBnGn-aI

    which is obviously a lot different from the Ramones and such, and a lot more influenced by metal. people have been saying punk has been dead since the 80's. same with metal.

    and i think a little (justified and polite) elitism is a good thing in music. it might make you look like a dick but i think it helps build taste and opinions.
    Completely agree with the last point. Ive often said people arent elitist enogh, and far too happy to accept music of lesser quality. I also feel it helps us to both understand music better, but also greater understanding of why we like what we like (though i doubt we could ever fully know that)

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Tyrant View Post
    i don't think punk is dead.
    I agree, it's just pointless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mevejuma View Post
    You may be in luck then, they say that their next album will be more like Origins and Absolution - something that's got me really looking forward to it!
    I heard a rumour but i didn't want to get my hopes up too much just yet - i'm still eagerly anticipating said new album though and i hope it'll be good! Sadly i can't afford to go to Leeds again next year though, breaking my three years in a row tradition Oh well, i'll just have to hope the line up isn't so great
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  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    I agree, it's just pointless.
    "pointless".

    how so?

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    Your argument is invalid. It is against the rules to post in threads over a month old.



    Anyway, I listen to A LOT of rock. AFI, Hawthorne Heights, HIM... I listen to the old stuff too, don't worry. Just not as much, because those bands won't have new material anytime soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Tyrant View Post
    "pointless".

    how so?
    It's just garage rock with boring lyrics and (usually) lesser musical talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    It's just garage rock with boring lyrics and (usually) lesser musical talent.
    Although I don't particularly enjoy listening to punk, couldn't most genres be said to have boring lyrics and (usually) lesser musical talent?

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    It's just garage rock with boring lyrics and (usually) lesser musical talent.
    this is clearly the exact same thing as garage rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnCyWEjj0aA

    and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWE9kbecx5w

    and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i70zFUh5ugA

    and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTNWczKWq1k

    and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm6s5Z8L57Y

    punk is not just the Ramones or the Sex Pistols anymore. **** you if you think so. there's tons of branches on it. also how does it make sense to dismiss an entire genre about lyrics? if you're going to give me that "i don't like political lyrics" point too punk has never ALL had political lyrics.

    it's fine to not like it, but the reasons you listed are dumb. the musical talent one is a fair thing to say but it's still not very valid.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Tyrant View Post
    this is clearly the exact same thing as garage rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnCyWEjj0aA

    and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWE9kbecx5w

    and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i70zFUh5ugA

    and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTNWczKWq1k

    and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm6s5Z8L57Y

    punk is not just the Ramones or the Sex Pistols anymore. **** you if you think so. there's tons of branches on it. also how does it make sense to dismiss an entire genre about lyrics? if you're going to give me that "i don't like political lyrics" point too punk has never ALL had political lyrics.

    it's fine to not like it, but the reasons you listed are dumb. the musical talent one is a fair thing to say but it's still not very valid.
    It's ridiculous to argue that the roots of punk are not founded in garage rock. Yes it's spread and made its boring way into other genres, but the roots remain.

    I find lyrics to be vitally important if the music is stripped to its bare bones. Punk lyrics are boring and formulaic. I'd rather read a Stephanie Meyer novel. I love political lyrics when done well. Punk does not do this.

    Ces, yes, 95% + of music is worthless.
    Last edited by Snorunt conservationist; 13th September 2011 at 1:33 AM.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    It's ridiculous to argue that the roots of punk are not founded in garage rock. Yes it's spread and made its boring way into other genres, but the roots remain.
    yes, you're right, but that doesn't mean anything considering there's tons of punk that's completely different from that nowadays. it doesn't matter if it has roots in garage rock, because a lot of bands have absolutely no resemblance to it.
    I find lyrics to be vitally important if the music is stripped to its bare bones. Punk lyrics are boring and formulaic. I'd rather read a Stephanie Meyer novel. I love political lyrics when done well. Punk does not do this.
    not all punk has political lyrics. even as early as the ****ing Misfits, punk had lyrics that weren't political.

    but i understand why you wouldn't like punk if lyrics mean that much to you. i don't really understand that point of view where lyrics mean all that much, but whatever.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by deoxysdude94 View Post
    Your argument is invalid. It is against the rules to post in threads over a month old.



    Anyway, I listen to A LOT of rock. AFI, Hawthorne Heights, HIM... I listen to the old stuff too, don't worry. Just not as much, because those bands won't have new material anytime soon.
    It wasnt an arguement, I was pointing out we have an existing thread ( or two) . Its not my fault thid forum has (actually, genuinely) stupid rules when it comes to bumping threads. Seriously what purpose does not posting in a topic as broad a subject as rock make just cause its a month old. Regardless of last post date
    , the thread serves exactly the same purpose.


    I actually find it a bit baffeling, as most forums actively encourage you use the search bar and post in an existing thread, rather than clogging up the forum with duplicate threafs.

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    So, what do we count A Day To Remember to be, just to ask a question?

    And we're not supposed to post in threads that have been inactive for a month or more, so even though it serves the same purpose, we're not supposed to use it..
    The edit button is always your friend.
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    It's all about Atom and the Ants 'bros'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris P. Stevenson View Post
    It's all about Atom and the Ants 'bros'.
    +1

    Also I just want to support Snorunt conservationist's earlier statements about Prince. Also Frank Zappa is another good choice from his list. They never collaborated because the results would be so amazing the world would cave in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emogirl View Post

    And we're not supposed to post in threads that have been inactive for a month or more, so even though it serves the same purpose, we're not supposed to use it..
    If you read properly, you'll notice I acknowledge the rule, whilst simultaneously pointing out it's stupidity.
    Can anyone give a good reason why we have that rule?

    Also I don't know if you saw, but I did give the longer replied I promised you back on the second page.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Tyrant View Post
    but i understand why you wouldn't like punk if lyrics mean that much to you. i don't really understand that point of view where lyrics mean all that much, but whatever.
    I'll even let average lyrics slide sometimes if the lines roll off the tongue. Sometimes.

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    Oh, I did see it, I...did I mention that?

    Meh, just like a lot of rules, it's probably because they felt like it, or thought of some crazy scenario where it would be a problem, and we just...wouldn't.

    Jeez, on the punk music thing, the lyrics aren't always THAT bad. I mean, sure, I'm probably getting my sub genres mixed up a little because the internet is an awful place to learn things, but, come on...The same could be said for most genres. It just depends on what you like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emogirl View Post
    Meh, just like a lot of rules, it's probably because they felt like it, or thought of some crazy scenario where it would be a problem, and we just...wouldn't.
    I can understand the rule being used in certain sub forums, with threads that are less general in nature. But given this is entertainment, where the rules say you have to post big general genre threads to encompass everything to avoid cluttering up the forum with smaller more specific threads, I find it daft that we cant bump older threads, as result creating more threads, and thus cluttering up the forum, something the rules are in place to avoid.

    I think for the sake of entertainment, or misc in general, using the search feature should be encouraged. As I say, most other forums I use have stickies at the top dedicated to showing people how to use the search feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by emogirl View Post
    So, what do we count A Day To Remember to be, just to ask a question?
    I've not heard much by them, but what I have struck me as cross between pop punk and post hardcore. Which I guess is the formula a lot of people would refer to as emo. But then you get hardcore purists who will tell you what is widely considered emo isn't emo at all. Which is I guess a result of taking emo as what its stands for, which is Emotive Hardcore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emogirl View Post
    Well, when I last listed a metalcore band in the metal thread i got yelled at. I guess I don't see where it belongs if it goes in neither. I have no idea where my music belongs if it just gets criticized in every thread I post in.
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertStyx View Post
    Most places I see metalcore is described as it's own genre, neither metal nor rock. It's generally not well liked by either community. Hell, I listen to both genres of music (as well as pretty much every other genre under the sun), and I can't stand the vast majority of metalcore.
    Hey kids... for the record It doesn't matter if it's Metal, Metalcore, molten metal, or powdered metal, they are all sub genre of Rock. Because before someone dubbed Sabbath "Metal" they were Hard Rock, satanic rock, and rock gods! Quite frankly if its screams, and it offends most parents its rock!

    Now you get to hear what my favs are. I am a Zep, Doors, Who, Pink Floyd, 3DG, BB, Aerosmith, Journey and many more fan.

    So true!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malanu View Post
    Hey kids... for the record It doesn't matter if it's Metal, Metalcore, molten metal, or powdered metal, they are all sub genre of Rock.
    Except no it's not.
    You could argue rock was mildly important in the development of metal, and certainly the sabbath worshipping doom bands, but for the most part it's definitely not a sub genre.
    A sub genre would imply that it's rock, but a specific subsection of rock, which isn't true. Metal is a genre in itself, with it's own subgenres.

    Rock is very much a blues based sort of music where you have a central riff as the focus, and typically follows a very safe structure, intro, :verse, bridge chorus:, middle eight, chorus, last chorus.

    now whilst there are some metal bands who have structures like that, predominately more traditional metal bands, and I guess in an evolutionary sense, some early speed/thrash bands. But then thrash was also quite influenced by hardcore, which came from punk, which was considered to be two fingers to rock music at the time.

    Typically metal bands will have more than one riff, often no chorus, the production is different, typically metal is more distorted, there's a lot more room for atmosphere and soundscapes, it's less routed in blues. A lot of metal has a lot in common with romantic era classical in both the idea of theme and development and genral themes of the music, such as nationalism, love beauty, death etc.

    There's different techniques to be found in metal, tremolo picking, blast beats, and the style of riff are also very different.

    Unless your only listening to bands who are boarderline rock/metal, there's no way anyone can listen to metal, and think that it's a type of rock.

    The thing is Genre's are a collective term for a group of bands that share the same and/or similar features. It's what you use to distinguish Burzum from Public Enemy. But the collective features and sound of metal differ somewhat from from those of Rock, and as such it would make no sense to include metal as a sub genre of rock.

    You'll often find metal fans don't really like rock, and vice versa, because it's a different genre, with a different sound.

    I can provide examples if you like.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malanu View Post
    Because before someone dubbed Sabbath "Metal" they were Hard Rock, satanic rock, and rock gods! Quite frankly if its screams, and it offends most parents its rock!
    Except times have changed, most parents I know are into rock.
    Also Sabbath weren't referred to as metal at the time, it's only something that's seemingly come with hindsight. They seemed to refer to it as Downer Rock at the time (according the master of reality's inside sleeve). But times changed, and what became known as metal was able to trace it's roots back to sabbath, and as such are now considered the first metal band.

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    I find it funny how we keep segregating everything so we can argue over what it is. You can call it metal or whatever you want, I'll call it rock. Cause
    Hot funk, cool punk, even if it's old junk
    It's still rock and roll to me.
    Anyway this thread is about rock, so please take the Metal/rock debate to the debate forum or VM.
    Last edited by Malanu; 13th September 2011 at 3:31 PM.

    So true!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malanu View Post
    I find it funny how we keep segregating everything so we can argue over what it is.
    Except that not really true is it?

    We segregate things to differentiate between them. A Genre is a descriptive word, what sense would it make for the same descriptive word to describe two completely different things? The point is further illustrated with sub genres. We differentiate between bands so that we can find something similar to what we like, and when writing/talking about bands we can group them in a collective sort of way.

    Here's a few examples of people asking for recommendations to highlight why it is we segregate music into genres and sub genres.

    eg1.
    p1: Hi I like rock, please could you recommend me some more
    p2: Try Dismember and Walknut.

    Odds are in this case, the person isn't going to want that.

    eg2.
    p1: Hi I like rock, please could you recommend me some more
    p2: are you familiar with the Marshall Tucker Band?

    odds are that will go down better.

    alternatively

    eg3.
    P1: I'm into doom metal, I really like Skepticism, Ahab and Esoteric, any similar bands?
    p2: have you tried the foo fighters? After all they are rock and metal is a subgenre of rock.

    That clearly makes no sense. Mainly because they are so different in style, a difference which is reflected in the fact one's metal and one's rock, and furthermore that metal isn't a sub style of rock.

    Unless you can provide me with any evidence to the contrary?

    If you honestly thing we split music up, merely to argue about it, then your a fool.

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    You missed what I said, I said "everything" not just music. Here you are getting upset because someone doesn't classify music the same way you do. Is it really that important? Honestly?

    Am I really a fool if I don't see the need to categorize everything into little categories? Cause in my eyes, it's foolish to get into an argument over music! There is much more important things to be venting on!

    So true!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malanu View Post
    You missed what I said, I said "everything" not just music. Here you are getting upset because someone doesn't classify music the same way you do. Is it really that important? Honestly?
    If you're a musician, then yes, it is important. Just like any other field of study, the classifications are there for a reason. Generally, these are things the majority of musicians agree on as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malanu View Post
    Am I really a fool if I don't see the need to categorize everything into little categories? Cause in my eyes, it's foolish to get into an argument over music! There is much more important things to be venting on!
    Then don't come in and start arguments if you think it is a waste of time. Simple, yes?
    These 'categories', as you call them, exist for a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malanu View Post
    You missed what I said, I said "everything" not just music. Here you are getting upset because someone doesn't classify music the same way you do. Is it really that important? Honestly?
    Given it's in a music thread, and the comment arose from a music related comment, why would I use an example other than music?

    unless you were just making a general statement of no relevance to the thread.
    oh why is there poverty in the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malanu View Post
    Am I really a fool if I don't see the need to categorize everything into little categories? Cause in my eyes, it's foolish to get into an argument over music! There is much more important things to be venting on!
    No, but your a fool not see why music is categorised.

    And given it's a rock thread, why would the argument relate to anything else?

    I'm not trying to insult people, or even tell them they are wrong for the sake of it, I'm merely trying to further educate misconceptions.

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