All about Hyper Offense [5th Gen]

**DarumakkaImposter** · 13th September 2011, 9:56 PM

Introduction

Hello. My name is Daru and this guide is about Hyper Offensive play. I hope, as does Oh, Romeo and complete legitimacy, that this guide will enlighten you about Hyper Offense, commonly known as HO. HO is all about thinking and not predicting. I will get to that part later though. HO utilizes a team of Pokemon that set up, usually behind Dual Screens, and sweep. A HO team should usually have all Physical or all Special team members on it. the exception usually being a Dual Screen/Rocks/Spikes user, although they commonly do not have any attacking moves. CB Scizor Bullet Punched your DDHaxorus? Send in your DDGyarados. Thundurus destroying your DDGyarados? Send in Terrakion. More and more HO teams utilize this. HO is all about running an entire team of Pokemon that are capable of setting up, sweeping, and winning you the game.

The Future of HO

I believe, as does Oh, Romeo, that fighting types will be one of the most used types in HO. Great speed + Power = easier to set up. Some have good defenses as well. Pokemon like NP Ape or SD Ape can be used on Physical or special teams. Being able to use a Pokemon for two different styles is a very good thing.

Prediction VS. Thinking

Here we go. This is Prediction VS. Thinking as the title suggests. What this means is long term thinking is more viable than predicting. You may be a good player, and you may lose to 5 idiots due to getting outpredicted. Prediction leaves too much up to chance rather than skill, since the less skilled can beat the more skilled. So we, the more skilled, prefer to remove it from the game whenever possible. Heavy offense is a way to do that. When using Team Preview, you should analyse the Pokemon they have, as quickly as possible, and try to determine the course of the game, i.e. determine what Pokemon you can set up on, what Pokemon they are going to use to 'check' you, and how to get around this. A skilled HO user will eventually be able to 'visualise' even a battle's latter stages with surprising accuracy. So in the long run, thinking is better than predicting. Sometimes, utilizing HO will be a bit rough in the beginning, since it does and will take a while to learn. I am not good at battling with HO ATM but I know how to talk about it. Long term thinking and minimal predicting will help you win the game in HO battles.

NOTICE
Deoxys-S has been banned to the Uber teir. Azelf will probably be used more than likely.

Fin

That's about it really. I hope you understand HO more. If you need anything explained, PM me, Game (if he's okay with it), or, complete legitimacy.

Links
Here are some HO links.

complete legitimacy

Gamefreak / LizardMan

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66519

OMN's_SkyNet18 / SkyNet

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=405264

Examples of Hyper Offensive Teams

Hyper Offensive Teams (Gen 4)

Spoiler:- Gamefreak's Team:

Hyper Offensive Teams (Gen 5)

Spoiler:- DarumakkaImposter's Team:

Spoiler:- SOMALIA's Team:

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So, in short the goal of HO is to minimize predicting. That's it. And with the right team and the right synergy, you will be able to accomplish this goal and sweep.

FAQ

Well how do we minimize prediction?

Don't switch. Ever. Only if you need to. If you switch, it gives your opponent more turns to set up hazards (rocks / spikes / screens), inflict status, or, even worse, set up their own sweeper. The more you switch, the more damage that gets dealt to you. The more you switch, the lesser chance you have of staying alive and being able to set up your own moves. Also, with switching, you might have to switch into a powerful move, so you'll have to put more bulk on a Pokemon to survive it, meaning less power for other things. Switching also relies on prediction. You are switching in one of your precios, frail, sweepers under the assumption they are going to use a move your switched-in Pokemon can resist. What if you predict wrong? You are suddenly on the back foot. You are not controlling the battle. The entire battle, your opponent should be biting his nails thinking about how to get around YOUR sweepers, not the other way around. It also is lessening the amount of hard hitting Pokemon you have on your team. We only switch when they bring in a Pokemon that literally completely and totally walls your sweeper and is then able to set up their own strategy. Here's an example: You are sweeping with LOLatios with Dragon Pulse, Surf, Psyshock and HP[Dark] and they bring out Scizor. None of your moves can damage him, meaning he is going to be able to XS. This is one of the only times you do NOT simply sacrifice your Pokemon. Switch into Infernape whilst he XS's, because then even with a XS he won't be able to OHKO you with a moveset of Bullet Punch, Bug Bite and Pursuit, and you can kill with a Fire STAB. You need to be able to make decisions on when is the best time to sacrifice your Pokemon, and in this case, sacrificing Latios would have been pointless.

Is it OK if I use a choice Pokemon?

NO. You should always stay away from choiced Pokemon. As your opponent can bring in a counter to your Pokemon that is locked in a move and proceed to set up their own strategy. If we had a choiced mon, we are practically FORCED and destined to switch, and this is why they are frowned upon.

What happens if stuff threatens us and we can't switch at that time?

Just let the current Pokemon die. Then, switch into something that can kill it or a lot of things. IDK how to explain this but here's a quote from Smogon:

Originally Posted by Smogon

The reason for this is that when you sacrifice your pokemon, you not only cripple what's out most of the time, you also let any pokemon on your team come in with zero damage. This means that if you have lots of resistances on your setup mons, you can bring in one that isn't threatened by whats out, forcing the opponent to switch. The free turn that we get from the opponent switching is key. This free turn is what allows our sweepers to be so dangerous and not have to switch away from stuff. Oftentimes you'll kill two or three pokemon in return for the pokemon you sacrificed. Once your sweepers are set up, usually you can just sacrifice and get the next mon in, using the free turns to set up, kill more mons, and then sac for the next guy to come in. It is very difficult for the opponent to stop this kind of momentum, and you almost always win without having to predict.

Wait, it's that easy?

No. To be killing their Pokemon constantly, their counter(s) cannot be present.

How do you do that? Destroy their counter before you can sweep?

SACRIFICE!!! That is the key. If you have built your team well, you will have good offensive synergy. This means they are all walled by the same things. i.e. Blissey, Chansey, etc.. People usually don't carry more than one type of wall (physical and special), as it is a waste of team space. What I'm saying is, if 5 of your Pokemon are walled by Blissey/Chansey you can sacrafice 1 to kill/cripple it and the rest can do their job. This is why you run a team of ALL physical or special. Once the respective wall on the opponent's team is down, the opponent has nothing else to stand in the way of your sweepers.

Is that all? Offensive synergy and whatnot?

Nope. The teambuilding process is one of the biggest steps in making a HO team. But, no amount of good playing will make up for a bad team.

1. Offensive Synergy - Have this or almost any team will be able to beat you, take away the sweeping momentum and make your sacrifices worthless.

2. Resistance - You need this for momentum after you have sacced stuff. If you have no resists to the Poke that is out, you won't be able to beat it. Every Pokemon on your team should be able to force something out. If it is possible, have resists as well, so you can continue the sweeping momentum.

3. Win Conditions - Everyone one on your team should be able to sweep right away. Nothing should switch out. It is OK if you sacrifice into a score of 5-2 or 5-1, then win. But, if you are making that many sacrafices and then winning, you should have a complete game plan.

4. Threatening Pokemon - If you carry a team of threatening Pokemon, you'll never have to switch.

So what is longterm thinking?

Hmmm.... So say you take Blue Harvest's current OU team and that team has racked up so many wins that it has made her become one of the top 10 in Smogon's OU tier on PO. You import it and play someone and loose 5-0. It's not the team, but how you played it. What I'm saying is, anybody can take a great competitive team, but how you play it is another thing. With team preview this gen, longterm thinking in HO will be much easier. It does take practice and skill to get it down though. From seeing your opponent's team, you have to be able to decide what to use first, mid game, and late game. Don't forget about sacrificing. That is a key role as well.

Are you done?

Yes. I am finished. But here are my last two cents: HO is very demanding in team building since everything has to be perfect to work in most worst case scenarios. Longterm thinking is very vital too and takes a lot of practice to master, so if you decide to try HO, you really need to stick with it, because HO relies on the PERSON'S ability to determine the course of a battle, rather than the actual Pokemon in a team. While SOME room for error is OK, you won't be able to get anywhere if you do not play it right. Once you get the hang of it, you can win just as easily against good players as against ladder idiots, making it a very formidable weapon in tournaments where the players are better

QUOTES
Spoiler:- Quotes:

Originally Posted by Gamefreak

Just remember that offensive and type synergy are both very important. The team should be able to play like a coarsing river and not depend on dual screens in a pinch. Dual Screens are merely a supplement. Your team is only 5 pokemon.

The team should be constantly opening opportunities for each other member, until one eventually busts through.

The main problem I see with a lot of HO teams is that it can't reliably do that. This is partially why a steel or two are so important, so you can take an Outrage, a Hurricane etc. The team needs to be built to check things through each other, while at the same time eliminating common counters and keeping the opponent off balance from the pace. Assassinsceptile is wrong. You can't just pick 5 sweepers and expect to win consistently, they need to be built with synergy.

Here are some vids of ONM Skynet and myself. I hope these help a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxh3nx6qFAM - Ragnorak vs ONM Skynet. Great game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEuLxvNWYTA - ONM Skynet vs Game84. This is an early video of Skynet. This is when Skynet was still learning Heavy Offense from his tutor Reyscarface. So there is some slight synergy issues in his team. He played very well though, so this is a good video too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmDoS7nYEaQ - Baldwombat vs myself. I made a couple of mistakes in my vid. I ended up letting a Gengar take out two of my members meaninglessly, don't do that! Only set up when you are 100% sure its safe. HP Fire Gengar was really common when this vid was made. I also probably should have tried to set up +4 with Kingdra and take out his entire team I guess.

I will add more later, just really busy atm.

Originally Posted by Gamefreak

This team has gotten quite a bit better. You won't have to worry about Excadrill sweeping you, or overspecializing your Heavy Offense team to beat it.

You also won't have to worry about Thunderus sweeping you, or spamming Thunder Wave against your team.

I didn't like Heavy Offense in gen 5 before, but now I feel it has a great amount of potential in the hands of the right player.

Here is another log, showing you how Heavy Offense works. Admittidly, his team had a bad team matchup though. If he tried, he can most definitly beat Heavy Offense. He also seemed to misplay with Nidoqueen.

By the way, this was a gen 4 battle. There was no team preview, so I couldn't long term think his team with 100% reliability. I saw Sub Roost Zapdos, and just telegraphed a slow defensive team, with possibly a Scarfed Flygon. Which is why I went for +3, to attempt a clean sweep, or attempt to kill multiple pokemon before the rest of the gang cleans up.

http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-wtf...ivate511296517

Originally Posted by Gamefreak

Shell Smash Cloyster and DD Tyranitar are really cool right now. Whenever I used to use DD Tyranitar, getting +3 was really easy with dual screens. It checks weather teams, and is hard to check considering the low Roobushin usage. Less Terrakion might use Balloon as well, considering how Excadrill was banned.

Shell Smash Cloyster can outrun the next fastest thing besides Scarfed Terrakion. (Scarf Landorus.) It can also mow its way through Scarf Rotom W, a common problem with this kind of team.

Another replay. This one demonstrates how your beat stall. He didn't seem to play perfectly though. http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-wtf...ivate648468868

Underline = Ragnarok

Bold = Gamefreak

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

I am not using Rivalry when I saw more female Pokémon than male when I was climbing the ladder. I could of course, just change the gender, but it's still risky (and I don't even like it compared to Mold Breaker).
That is a legitimate reason not to use Rivalry. You should have told me that the first time lol. I rarely see female pokemon nowadays. Mold Breaker is better in that respect.

I also don't want to have to use Outrage when I can use Mold Breaker, making it harder to set up on. There has been too many situations where Mold Breaker actually saved me.
Not much can really set up on a boosted Haxorus Rivalry Outrage though. It just 2HKO's everything. It is good that you found Mold Breaker useful in the limelight.

And I prefer Adamant. Might give Jolly a shot from time to time, but I will always prefer Adamant > Jolly. Adamant is understandable since you don't run Rivalry or Life Orb. I always used speed boosting natures on all my sweepers though, unless they had priority, or if they were too weak like Kingdra.

Couple things from using the team -

Taunt > Swords Dance on Haxorus works well with handling stall. You always want to have Adamant, and getting to +2 is easy with screens. Lum Berry or Draco Plate is still needed and max speed still gets the one up on opposing Haxorus. That is good, but I personally like the double dance set. You don't really need Taunt if nothing can switch into a +2 Outrage, and Skarmory can still Brave Bird you if you Taunt. It is a legitimate set though, since you can set up on things like Chansey, Ferrothorn, Mew, Rotom, Rest/Talk Gyarados, and Ninetails without much worry at all.

Because Excadrill is banned, Lucario and Terrakion are interchangeable. If you want a second dragon resist / partner, then Lucario pairs nicely with Dragonite and Haxorus, and the extra priority is nice for Rotom-W. Yeah, that works too. I prefer Terrakion though, since once Haxorus ravages Scizor, Terrakion pretty much beats everything else depending on the situation.

Cloyster is at this point, a weak link. I ran a team that used Rain Dance Espeon and Baton Pass so I could run Shell Smash, Swift Swim Gorebyss with White Herb. That is something to consider, but if you are going to do that, I would probably replace Dragonite with a mixed dancer Salamence, or continue using Fire Blast.
It is a weak link, but don't use Gorebyss. There is no reason to use a special attacker on this team, when team slots are extremely premium in gen 5. You see less physically bulky pokemon on the same team unless you are fighting stall because there is more pokemon to cover. Running more than one physically bulky pokemon may be redundant coverage on the metagame, so players tend not to do that. So Heavy Offense can really take advantage of that, by sweeping through many teams more easily. This means you should run 5 physicals, to overkill the teams which are weak to it.

If not, then you can just run Sub Bounce Gyarados over it. Still testing.I would probably try that over it. Something else may fit, but I am too busy to look for other things right now.

Originally Posted by Gamefreak

Go ahead. There is a reason why a lot of people at the top of their game use speed boosting natures.

The power difference is negligable a lot of the time, while a speed tie or getting revenged because you don't run enough speed is gamebreaking. It is only 10% more power, when a speed + nature allows you to outrun stuff 100% of the time. That is much better than a coin flip or getting outran.

It is like when people originally ran 252HP/40Def/216Spe Gliscor in gen 4, but eventually speed creeped up to 252HP/6Def/252Spe.

Spoiler:- -Chart-:

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Spoiler:- Credit:

**Farfan** · 14th September 2011, 12:55 AM

reserved2

Building a team?
Since Hyper Offense is based on hit as hard as possible (mostly with 5 sweepers 1 double screener), when building a HO team, you should be focused in having good Offensive synergy. Teambuilding is one of the most important things, you must be sure that your sweepers can kill the opposing wall(s) in order to do a clean sweep. For example, if you're running a special HO team, your pokemons should have offensive synergy, so they can KO walls like Blissey. Offensive Synergy stands for having attacks that cover all the types, this is very important unless you have a monotype or 3:3 team.
If requiered, sacrificing low health or status inflicted pokemon is a good choice in order to set up with another sweeper, so switching pokemons is not recommended.

Team Rating
Hyper Offense is getting popular, that means you will see a lot of Hyper Offense teams.
Since you can't suggest a wall that covers threats (this rates are usually seen on standard teams), first it always have a dual screener (usually Deoxys-S or Espeon), you can help by suggesting sets, attacks, items, on a certain pokemon, suggesting pokemons that can help the team to become stronger, and with better Offensive Synergy too.

Here are some reviews of pokemons that you can use in HO, and examples of sets.
Spoiler:- HO Pokemons:

And examples of sets (Thanks DarumakkaImposter for writing them):

Spoiler:- Sets:

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kk I'll prob put more things here.. later.

**AquaRegisteel** · 14th September 2011, 6:43 PM

This is probably one of the best guides about HO. It is very well explained, and the set examples can really help out newcomers.

Well done, and I will start making HO teams now thanks to this. Well Done.

**DarumakkaImposter** · 14th September 2011, 7:05 PM

Hey hanks. Were here to help. But where did GF, OMNs, Romeo's, and CL,s posts go? D:

**~~Blue Harvest~~** · 14th September 2011, 7:16 PM

Deleted as spam. No one ever finishes posts they "reserve".

**DarumakkaImposter** · 14th September 2011, 7:28 PM

Ah. Ok. Thanks for clarifying.

**gingbino11** · 16th September 2011, 11:56 PM

Why is Draco Meteor an option in the CMLati sets?

**~~Blue Harvest~~** · 17th September 2011, 6:11 AM

I suggest removing all the team "examples" except Somalia's, and find Gamefreak to post his team. While I like that you guys are getting in the spirit of things those other teams aren't good examples of Heavy Offense. Those teams are basically "dual screens + scarfer + some sweepers I guess". Even if it kinda has the same idea as good HO, they aren't very solid teams.

**Gamefreak** · 17th September 2011, 7:20 AM

Originally Posted by Blue Harvest

I suggest removing all the team "examples" except Somalia's, and find Gamefreak to post his team. While I like that you guys are getting in the spirit of things those other teams aren't good examples of Heavy Offense. Those teams are basically "dual screens + scarfer + some sweepers I guess". Even if it kinda has the same idea as good HO, they aren't very solid teams.

The HO team I made very early BW OU is outdated now. I would have to make a new one, haha.

I have a DPP OU Heavy Offense team I really like, if that is good enough for now Blue.

**AquaRegisteel** · 17th September 2011, 5:41 PM

Originally Posted by gingbino11

Why is Draco Meteor an option in the CMLati sets?

As it can easily OHKO many non-resistant Pokémon, but I guess it kind of defeats the purpose of less switching = less prediction.

**complete legitimacy** · 17th September 2011, 5:48 PM

Originally Posted by Gamefreak

The HO team I made very early BW OU is outdated now. I would have to make a new one, haha.

I have a DPP OU Heavy Offense team I really like, if that is good enough for now Blue.

I think we'd all still like to see it.

**Gamefreak** · 17th September 2011, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by complete legitimacy

I think we'd all still like to see it.

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=437022

I think the descriptions may be slightly outdated though. I usually like to go more in-depth with less redundancy nowadays since I am an improved player now. The team is probably one of the best builds for classic Heavy Offense in DPP OU though, and some nitpicks can be made for your playstyle.

**mcdanger** · 17th September 2011, 8:42 PM

I dont really see much of a difference between Gamefreaks HO team and the posted ones. I`m not saying it bad but i just dont really see what Blue Harvest is getting at. They share the same structure just no scarf revenge killer, thus making them the same, HO, just varing synergy.

**Gamefreak** · 17th September 2011, 8:44 PM

Originally Posted by mcdanger

I dont really see much of a difference between Gamefreaks HO team and the posted ones. I`m not saying it bad but i just dont really see what Blue Harvest is getting at. They share the same structure just no scarf revenge killer, thus making them the same, HO, just varing synergy.

Priority, Steels, Sand, Swift Swim, and varying boosters make it easier to beat the standard teams in the DPP OU metagame. So many teams just lose to the combos the team can dish out. The Scizor + Luke, and the Kingdra + Gyarados combo in particular.

Tyranitar can actually get +3 if Scarfed Flygon tries to switch in and revenge because it cannot 2HKO with Earthquake and a Reflect up. Then it can procede to run through an entire F/W/G core team with ease.

You would be suprised how common Damp Rock Rain Dance was in mid 2009 to early 2010.

**mcdanger** · 17th September 2011, 8:48 PM

So the difference, you say, is boost abilities that raise speed over attack. Priority is understandable, the poted teams have few, but i mean structure, syenergy, all examples have that and seem to be overall just as effective.

**Gamefreak** · 17th September 2011, 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by mcdanger

So the difference, you say, is boost abilities that raise speed over attack. Priority is understandable, the poted teams have few, but i mean structure, syenergy, all examples have that and seem to be overall just as effective.

There was some degree of weaknesses noted in the rate my team section.

The I posted team for DPP OU standards has little to no weaknesses. EB Jirachi, and maybe Spec'd Rotom. Both I can play around very well though, and the weakness isn't really noticable for me at all knowing how uncommon said pokemon are. :P

Heavy Offense simply just needs to be water tight as **** because of how frail the team is and how many sacrifices you need to create - which can open up holes. You have no fail-safe in a revenge killer, and using the aforementioned revenge killer is like playing with a loaded gun at times when using the team. Just use great offensive synergy, defensive synergy, variety in the ways to boost, then add priority. You really shouldn't use a Scarfer in HO in my honest opinion.

There has been rare exceptions where Stathakis used Spec'd Jolteon, but in DPP OU there was not much which could set up a sweep on that anyway. It was just meant to mow down teams late game, or to break the frail teams early game. Way too much sets up on a scarf user.

**mcdanger** · 17th September 2011, 9:12 PM

i see what your saying. So, to sum up this discussion, Blue Harvest was getting at that these teams lack combos and left open areas to weaknesses, not dening that they have no syenergy but lacked real serious thought(not saying there was none) about weaknesses due to the sacrifices to make aid teams.

**Vandslaux** · 17th September 2011, 9:30 PM

You put Ice Beam on the Thundurus set. Change it to HP Ice. Thundurus can't learn Ice Beam. (Although it would be awesome if he could)

Also, is a special Lucario viable on a physical team? Send in against Chansey/Blissey, they switch out, thinking you'll Close Combat, but you NP, they switch back to Chansey/Blissey and 2HKO on the switch with Aura Sphere, I think.

**assassinsceptile** · 17th September 2011, 9:53 PM

My personal guide to HO:

STEP ONE: Get a Dual Screener

STEP TWO: Get 5 set up sweepers

STEP THREE: Spam the A button and don't think about anything because HO is mindless

DONE

**Farfan** · 17th September 2011, 9:54 PM

Originally Posted by x_vandslaux_x

You put Ice Beam on the Thundurus set. Change it to HP Ice. Thundurus can't learn Ice Beam. (Although it would be awesome if he could)

Uh oh! Sorry! Fixed that ^^; well if it could learn Ice Beam it would be very broken, and Thundurus is in the suspect list of Smogon, so it might be banned.

Originally Posted by x_vandslaux_x

Also, is a special Lucario viable on a physical team? Send in against Chansey/Blissey, they switch out, thinking you'll Close Combat, but you NP, they switch back to Chansey/Blissey and 2HKO on the switch with Aura Sphere, I think.

Well, if you're using a physicall team, and you're playing Hyper Offense, your pokemons are supposed to have physicall orientated sets, so special Luke should be in a special team.
It's hard to OHKO Blissey even after one NP, you need some help of rocks
Timid Lucario with Life Orb, +2 Aura Sphere to a 252 HP/4SpDef Bold Blissey: 76.05% - 89.5%
That means if you have some rocks in the field, you still have to 2OHKO Bliss.

Added some pokemons, such as Cloyster and Omastar, and fixed some typos.
I'll maybe put UU and Ubers sweepers, what do you think?

Originally Posted by assassinsceptile

STEP ONE: Get a Dual Screener

STEP TWO: Get 5 set up sweepers

STEP THREE: Spam the A button and don't think about anything because HO is mindless

^This.

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