Hariyama Discussion.

[DarkSaber]

Hariyama

Type: Fighting


Tier: Rarely Used (RU)


Stats

Hp 144
Atk 120
Def 60
SpA 40
SpD 60
Spe 50



Traits

Thick Fat: Fire- and Ice-type damage reduced 1/2.
Guts: Attack is increased 50% when statused.
Sheer Force: Increases power of moves with secondary effects by 30%, but removes the effects.

Alright Hariyama is a Pokemon I have recently fallen in love with. His shiny sprite is IMO one of the best. He has some interesting sets, but so far I can't come up with anything that makes me really happy. Nevertheless here are some sets I have used and has given me somewhat good results

Hariyama@ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat/Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 124 Def / 124 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Bullet Punch
- Belly Drum
- Force Palm

This sets allows him to be a lot more bulky. Usually used for lead. Fake out for starting move and scouting in case of a switch out. Unless it's a taunting lead start with Belly Drum after Fake Out. Free set-up due to 90% of the leads starting with Stealth Rock. Belly Drum for slower Pokemons than Hariyama, 136 might be slow, but it outspeeds quite a few stuff, Bullet Punch as main attacking move. Thick Fat allows him to survive longer and due to Leftovers a little of the lost HP lost due to Belly Drum is given back. Bullet Punch is the main attacking move for anything that doesn't resist it.
The more bulkiness here, which is what I aimed for, makes him hit not so hard against centralized walls, but with the help of Force Palm it can help teammates due to his 30% Paralyzing chance. Using Guts instead of Thick Fat allows him to switch into the so predictable WoW, Toxic and Paralyzes to protect other members and use Guts, but it loses the ability to switch in Ice and Fire Moves or just stay longer after Belly Drum.

Hariyama@ Flame Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 254 Atk / 124 Def / 124 SDef /4 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Cross Chop
- Bullet Punch
- Belly Drum
- Ice Punch

Made just for attacking. After Belly Drum and activation of Flame Orb the main attacking move is Bullet Punch. Anything that resist Bullet Punch can eat Cross Chop which will do quite a lot more damage than any other move. Ice Punch is for those annoying dragons that really like to set up in from of him. After some damage calculations and seeing it action dividing both defenses at 124 rather than giving him 252 HP allows him to take more damage.

I can't really see any use for Sheer Force besides using Life Orb and some attacks, but I don't really see it viable when compared to both Guts and Thick Fat.

So what are your suggestions? I am really looking forward to seeing what other movesets you guys can post and make.

[Blue Harvest]

Just run Close Combat / Ice Punch / Earthquake / Bullet Punch with Guts / Burn Orb. Belly Drum is a terrible move.

[Haru Glory]

Just run Close Combat / Ice Punch / Earthquake / Bullet Punch with Guts / Burn Orb. Belly Drum is a terrible move.

Yeah, Belly Drum could really work only with a WishPasser.

This is great set too:

Hariyama @ Flame Orb
Adamant, Guts
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
- Bulk Up
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Facade

Bulk Up boosts you Attack and Defense.
Close Combat is STAB, and Bullet Punch has priority.
Facade gets 140 power with Burn, and more with Guts, as all the other moves.

[DarkSaber]

Close Combat ruins his Bulkiness, if anything Cross Chop is preferably in that set.

And 126 in each defense gives him more bulkiness than 252 HP.

And Belly Drum is not a terrible move. Maxes out the attack and if used with good prediction you can use Belly Drum and take no damage that turn.

[PokeMaster366]

Belly Drum + Burn = Can't take a hit and dies w/o doing much damage when stalled out by ghosts like Jellicent and Chandelure.

[DarkSaber]

Belly Drum + Burn = Can't take a hit and dies w/o doing much damage when stalled out by ghosts like Jellicent and Chandelure.

Tier is NU. not OU.

If anything he can be played on UU where his only ghost worry is Mismagus.

Sorry I do not play OU, so I don't keep up with the sets those pokemon use.

[Aquadon]

I always thought with that High HP Stat the BulkUper was the best option. Comboed that with its ability to phaze and you got a fair Pokemon. Also, I've always liked Force Palm, and I feel like Hariyama's usually the best Pokemon to utilize it.

[DarkSaber]

I always thought with that High HP Stat the BulkUper was the best option. Comboed that with its ability to phaze and you got a fair Pokemon. Also, I've always liked Force Palm, and I feel like Hariyama's usually the best Pokemon to utilize it.

Well the formula uses a system of multiplication/division rather than addition/subtraction means that some pokemon benefit from certain EV distributions when it comes to defenses. Hariyama is one of them. It has not terrible but not good base defenses but a massive HP. EVing in defenses makes it take hits much better, and pokemon like Wobbuffet are similar. Some pokemon with abysmal HP but huge base defenses like Shuckle, Spiritomb, Dusclops/ Dusknoir, etc. benefit from the opposite. If you don't understand after testing this by calculating damage with the formula using 252 EVs in HP vs. 252 in defenses, I could give you an example. Blissey is an extreme example of how 252 EVs in defense allows her to take physical hits almost twice as well as if you invested 252 in HP instead.

[Zachmac]

And after a belly drum, you won't have that massive HP anymore. Try bulk up instead, it boost defense at the same time, and you want it to be bulky, right? Oh, and it doesn't make you twice as easy to KO.

[DarkSaber]

Here are some quick calculations.

Sorry for the posting style of the calcs.

252 SpAtk Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs 4 HP/126 SpDef Hariyama: 57.44% - 67.91%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Hariyama: 60.37% - 71.34%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Double Hit vs 252 HP/0 Def Hariyama: 31.1% - 36.59%
4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Double Hit vs 0 HP/126 Def Hariyama: 30.07% - 35.2%
4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs 252 HP/0 Def Hariyama: 55.08% - 64.84%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs 4 HP/126 Def Hariyama: 52.56% - 62.09%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

And so on. Those are just some of the most common leads I see on UU, but you get the point of Hariyama doing a lot better with 126 in each side.

[DarkSaber]

And after a belly drum, you won't have that massive HP anymore. Try bulk up instead, it boost defense at the same time, and you want it to be bulky, right? Oh, and it doesn't make you twice as easy to KO.

It's silly, but I never bothered trying to use Bulk Up. Might give it a go and see how it fares.

[LinksOcarina]

There is also a defensive option too.

Hariyama@ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Impish (+Def, -SpA)
EV: 4 Hp, 252 Atk, 252 Def
- Force Palm/Bullet Punch
- Substitute
- Payback
- Whirlwind

I used this way back on a Hail weather team I experimented with, basically the goal is to do some stalling instead of using brute force thanks to Belly Drum/Bulk up. The Substitute is basically the crux of it; thanks to it's bulk it can take a lot of hits, bar some heavy attacks at least, and Whirlwind is used to break up baton-passing and stat-buildups from the enemies. Force Palm doesn't do high damage compared to Close Combat or Bullet Punch (although bullet punch is a great option to use) but it is automatic paralysis, which should not be underestimated. Lastly payback. covers ghosts and psychics.

Now I will point this out; this set is very reliant on the support of the team, so if you use a defensive set with Hariyama I would suggest making sure the rest of the team fits the synergy.

[irock245]

Hariyama is pretty good in NU. i don't play it, so i can't come up with a good set.

[ParaChomp]

He's a nice Focus Punch user in lower tiers but in all other terms, he's okay.

[Soperman]

This guy has crazy Hp and pretty nice Attack, and has some pretty usable sets in the lower tiers, especially as a bulky attacker with Thick Fat.

Close Combat ruins his Bulkiness, if anything Cross Chop is preferably in that set.

And 126 in each defense gives him more bulkiness than 252 HP.

And Belly Drum is not a terrible move. Maxes out the attack and if used with good prediction you can use Belly Drum and take no damage that turn.

Belly Drum makes him too weak. He doesnt have the speed to make up for the lost health, nor the healing capabilities to get it back. Bulk Up/Flame Orb/Guts is better imo

[3.14kachu]

126 is actually not divisible by 4, and I doubt a lot of your EV spreads. Personally, I believe that every Hariyama with Bulk Up should have 252 HP, 200 SpD, 56 Def, and any Hariyama with Belly Drum should have 4 HP, 252 Def, 252 SpDef. Use attack EVs only on the uncommon (but not unusable) Choice Band set. For all-out offense, use 252 Atk, 248 HP, 4 Def, 4 SpDef.

[Eaglehawk]

It has some stiff competition with Throh, since Throh has better bulk overall., gets Guts, and can be an effective Phazer on one's team

[DarkSaber]

Actually I found this set to be the best.

Hariyama@ Leftovers
Trait:Guts
EVs: 252 Atck / 4 Hp / 124 Def / 124 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Bullet Punch
- Belly Drum
- Force Palm

The damage difference of using 252 HP oppose to 252 Attack is about 10% in most attacks, and really after the Belly Drum it doesn't really matter.

Here is a quick video of this set in UU.

http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Coc...oz--2011-10-04

[DarkSaber]

126 is actually not divisible by 4, and I doubt a lot of your EV spreads. Personally, I believe that every Hariyama with Bulk Up should have 252 HP, 200 SpD, 56 Def, and any Hariyama with Belly Drum should have 4 HP, 252 Def, 252 SpDef. Use attack EVs only on the uncommon (but not unusable) Choice Band set. For all-out offense, use 252 Atk, 248 HP, 4 Def, 4 SpDef.

Well instead of doubting my Ev Spreads, there is always the Damage calculations to prove your point.

I already prove mine with the simple fact he tanks a lot better with 126 divided rather than 252 HP.