General Chat Thread

[The Eleventh]

Snorunt, it's certainly a worrying thought if people, even those who aren't Christian, aren't aware that the death of Jesus greatly impacted on western civilisation. But why does it matter if they don't know who sentenced him to death if it has no immediate relevance to their everyday lives?

[Valoo.]

FFS NO IT ISN'T. How on earth can anybody argue this? Seriously. I mean it's such a stupid argument. The role of christianity in the history and culture of the Western world is so huge it is connected to almost everything in society, and Pontius Pilate was one of the major figures in the death of its prophet. His significance is so huge it dwarfs almost every single figure in human history.

Well yes, Christianity has an impact on the western world, but Pilate has very little relevance at all. Yes he killed Jesus, but someone who has nothing to do with religion doesn't need to know who he is. Obviously, when Christianity comes into play somewhere it has relevance, but Pilate really doesn't. Yeah, he gave the go ahead on Jesus' death, but someone who's not Christian doesn't need to know that :|

And "dwarfs almost every figure" is a massive overstatement.

MLK had no impact on Europe as far I know, and I don't understand why they would put any time into studying him when I assume they have their own individual who stood up to 'The Wrong' in their nation. I know about Gandi, Mother Theresa and Princess Di... but those are the only "humanitarians" I can think of off the top, and that knowledge is not that important to my daily life. Sorry but that's how I feel.

Ok, Martin Luther King has relevance Malanu, and I really hope I don't have to explain why.

[Malanu]

I understand what his importance is, but to a European, I am guessing they have someone that has done something just as relevant for their country. I don't remember learning about them in school though.

[Gelatino95]

I'm totally with you here, Snorunt.

Well yes, Christianity has an impact on the western world, but Pilate has very little relevance at all. Yes he killed Jesus, but someone who has nothing to do with religion doesn't need to know who he is. Obviously, when Christianity comes into play somewhere it has relevance, but Pilate really doesn't. Yeah, he gave the go ahead on Jesus' death, but someone who's not Christian doesn't need to know that :|

And "dwarfs almost every figure" is a massive overstatement.

The thing is, even for people who aren't religious or Christian, it's still important to know these things. Christianity and the death of Jesus itself had such a profound impact on the world order. Just the fact that Christianity is one of the leading world religions should indicate its significance.

Besides, if you don't know about significant historical figures just because they don't pertain to you, that's called ignorance.

[Geekachu]

MLK had no impact on Europe as far I know, and I don't understand why they would put any time into studying him when I assume they have their own individual who stood up to 'The Wrong' in their nation.

Right, so you're suggesting we should be ignorant to someone/something even though their effect on our lives is mostly indirect? I think Martin Niemoller wrote something regarding the dangers of apathy.

That said, I admit that I had absolutely no idea who Pontius Pilate was. However, Sno, you appear to be attributing this to some sort of conscious ignorance, when it isn't. I dunno, blame the schools for teaching kids more about the life of a caterpillar or blame the personal interests of people to not read much on religion, but 'raising a generation of ignorance' is quite the exaggeration. There's a difference between ignorance by choice and ignorance in itself.

[Moneyy]

His significance is so huge it dwarfs almost every single figure in human history.

I'm confused now. What exactly did this guy do? From what I've heard from you so far, Pontius Pilate played an important role in the death of Jesus. But there has to be something else he did for him to dwarf every single other historical figure, right?

[Gelatino95]

I'm confused now. What exactly did this guy do? From what I've heard from you so far, Pontius Pilate played an important role in the death of Jesus. But there has to be something else he did for him to dwarf every single other historical figure, right?

That right there is pretty significant.

[The Eleventh]

I'm confused now. What exactly did this guy do? From what I've heard from you so far, Pontius Pilate played an important role in the death of Jesus. But there has to be something else he did for him to dwarf every single other historical figure, right?

Now, now. He said "almost". He's not going to exaggerate that much, is he?

[Moneyy]

That right there is pretty significant.

Why is it so significant? I get that it is relatively important to know, but why is it so important that everybody should know about him?

[Malanu]

Not so much ignorant... but culturally speaking it is more important to learn about ones own cultural heroes. And as far a religious Icons (Villains in Pilates case)I don't know a single villain of Islamic religious teachings... Do I need to?

For instance until I watched V for Vendetta I didn't even know the 5th of November was a Holiday... Do I need to know about it living in Michigan? In the case of PP what impact does he have on my life being an Atheist?

[Gelatino95]

Why is it so significant? I get that it is relatively important to know, but why is it so important that everybody should know about him?

The crucifixion of Jesus had a profound effect on Christianity and pretty much made it what it is today. Christianity, in turn, affected most, if not all, of the world. Without this significant event, the world would be drastically different.

The point isn't how it's significant, but that you should understand one of the most influential events in world history.

[moot]

i would go so far as to say christianity ruined the world
heh

[Malanu]

http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm

According to Islam, Jesus never died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was born to die on the cross.

So why should the Islamic people need to be aware of Pilate since to their records Jesus did not get crucified!

[Ludwig]

I understand what his importance is, but to a European, I am guessing they have someone that has done something just as relevant for their country. I don't remember learning about them in school though.

Martin Luther might have been a bit important, but I don't know if he is similar to Martin Luther King. Other than him, I can't think of someone important (in the context) in Europe either and I've been educated there.

[Tyranitarquake]

http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm
So why should the Islamic people need to be aware of Pilate since to their records Jesus did not get crucified!

They don't need to be aware of this Pilate guy. And Islam being the 2nd largest religion in the world, means there are a lot of people that don't need to be aware of this guy. And that's just islam. A lot of other religions don't even believe in Jesus as a whole.

[Malanu]

Precisely my point.

[Pesky Persian]

http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm
So why should the Islamic people need to be aware of Pilate since to their records Jesus did not get crucified!

Uh, I've never heard of Islam not believing Jesus was born. He's in the Koran and in Islam Jesus was a prophet of God, just not His Son or the Messiah. But Jesus is a pretty respected figure in Islam...

[Malanu]

Right, but according to them IF I read that right he was not crucified, thus did not cause PP to wash his hands and did not even die for our sins...

[Pesky Persian]

Right, but according to them IF I read that right he was not crucified, thus did not cause PP to wash his hands and did not even die for our sins...

Just because they don't believe Jesus died for our sins doesn't mean they don't believe he was executed. Considering Pontius Pilate ordered the execution of a prophet of God, I'd say he played a pretty big role in all of the Abrahamic religions. And even if he's only significant in Christianity, I don't see why he shouldn't be known.

There are a lot of prominant historical figures who don't play a direct role in my life, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't know who they are and how they helped shape history.

[Tyranitarquake]

Just because they don't believe Jesus died for our sins doesn't mean they don't believe he was executed. Considering Pontius Pilate ordered the execution of a prophet of God, I'd say he played a pretty big role in all of the Abrahamic religions. And even if he's only significant in Christianity, I don't see why he shouldn't be known.

There are a lot of prominant historical figures who don't play a direct role in my life, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't know who they are and how they helped shape history.

Jesus didn't actually get crucified in Islam. I don't think whoever 'killed' him had that name either. Not sure though.