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Thread: rip general chat thread 2011-2014

  1. #16626

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    I back on Serebii forums! Church group was over, but Wii had problem so I couldn't get online. Sorry!
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    I can't wait for Pokemon Black 2 and White! Elese and Bugh are back!

  2. #16627
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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzalesTheySay View Post
    You can't eat the internet.

    OmnomNOMnomnom

  3. #16628
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirate555 View Post
    OmnomNOMnomnom
    How dare you! D:

  4. #16629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murton View Post
    Well, mysogyny is bad, but I also dislike feminists raging without any good reason. Basically, the woman in the "Tropes vs. Women in Video Games" Kickstarter video talks about five reoccuring roles a girl can have: the one that must be saved, the protagonist, the sidekick, the antagonist and the unimportant NPC in the background. What else role is there for a character to fill? Sure, a couple of the shown games have scarcely clothed women (Rayman Origins, Bayonetta, couple of other games I don't really know) but there are also lots upon lots of regularly clothed female gaming characters. Also "and the most common trope in video games: women as background decoration". How is this a big deal? There are also lots and lots of male unimportant NPCs, but nobody's complaining about them. "Oh look, there's someone in the game that just isn't important. OH LOOK IT'S A GIRL! MYSOGYNY! MYSOGYNY!". Please.
    Okay. I was initially unsure about this premise as well, and was going to write something about it but thought better/came to agree with her.

    My initial thought was, "Well, sure, that's true. Gaming is a male-dominated market, and damsel-in-distresses and hyper-sexuality cater to that. But before you can address stereotypical, poorly written women in gaming, you have to address the fact that gaming is more filled with stereotypical, poorly written characters than any other type of media as a whole. It's scantily clad warriors and princesses in need, but they're right next to grunting, muscle-bound heroes with guns and swords and no hint of depth or realism to be found."

    But that's not really fair. Because from modern, western games (big tits, big muscles 'n' guns or gtfo) to family classics and the Japanese market, women characters suffer so much more from pigeon-holing it's ridiculous.

    Hell, look at Mario. Nothing really stereotypical about him. He's a quirky, big-nosed plumber made for graphical convenience who gets to be the constant hero of his own series. He saves Peach, the princess archetype.

    More than twenty years later, we've all grown up, companies are trying to reach out to girl gamers, etc. She can have some progressive roles, maybe her own game, right?

    Sure, but only if it looks like this. Please note that the top screen is reserved for pink hearts and the bottom for hormones.



    That's ****ing ridiculous. Mario would jump on that plant. Princess Peach cries.

    Bottom line: You can find male game characters who don't particularly abuse any hero or gender archetypes. But I challenge you to point out any reasonable number of women characters who aren't

    this





    or this





    or this





    etc., etc.

    For one of those, I just typed in "Final Fantasy healer," without knowing anything about the series, because I knew it would come up with demure anime-styled girls as the first several images. That's how predictable this is.

    She's right, because women in video games throughout the past twenty years have been princesses, tits, glitter-and-sparkle gimmick playable characters, healing sidekicks and damsels in distress with next to no variation. Because it's a medium with more bikini-shaped armor than the Ox King's family reunion. Because you can't sell Tomb Raider without a starring role from Lara Croft's D-cup. Because it's a lot more pervasive than any male stereotypes.

    I mean, look at this.



    This pink-hatted monkey is one of the most progressive things to happen in gaming during the last two decades. That's fucking wrong.

    EDIT -- Pre-4 Resident Evil games are actually very gender neutral with their characters. That's one of the only examples I can think of among major series.
    Last edited by Cipher; 14th June 2012 at 3:20 AM.

  5. #16630
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    In regard to that, I think that Metroid: Other M is still one of the most telling documents about video game culture. Before that (and possibly Prime 3 which I haven't played) Samus was pretty badass, as competent as most male heroes and probably at least 30% manlier. Mind you, she was always in her super suit, but we've known forever that she was female, and plenty of male characters carry huge amounts of machinery. Then Other M happened and turned her into... that. Which is one of the reasons, other than the aforementioned themes of Super Princess Peach, that while I'd love for a Legend of Zelda game where you get to play as Zelda, Wielder of the Triforce of Wisdom and Hero of Plot-Related Arc Word Du Jour, I am not holding my breath. Alsom with regard to Final Fantasy... all I can think sometimes is "People who clamor for strong female characters are probably SOL, since at times it seemed like the plot of XIII was driven by Lightning being only a façade thereof."

    also Dixie Kong is pretty badass. But it's depressing that a nonhuman character is our best example.
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  6. #16631
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    Addendum:

    Just to preempt some counterarguments, I actually can think of a few examples that function slightly better than Dixie Kong. Pokemon, at least the in the last ten years, has actually been pretty good with this. The games present a fairly even mix of high-level male and female characters, and they allow you to choose between a boy and girl avatar with little bearing on gameplay. None of the girl characters are over-sexualized either (which should be obvious, as they're supposed to be very young teens). But it holds true even among the games' adult women. There are a lot of skirts and etc., but for the most part it comes off as very inoffensive and just an attempt to keep things trendy.

    The most recent Mega Man games on the DS also let you choose between fairly androgynous male and female characters without much fanfare and little bearing on gameplay.

    And surprisingly, both those examples come from still-relatively-sexist Japan. (Which ... I don't really know if that bodes well or not. It's kind of alarming that Western games are by and large worse.)

    But examples like those are few and far between. And then, as mentioned earlier, you have franchises that started out fairly respectful of their female protagonists like Resident Evil and Metroid, and have somehow gone backward during the last few years.
    Last edited by Cipher; 14th June 2012 at 3:21 AM.

  7. #16632
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    Amy Rose is pretty good at fighting when sonic is locked up/getting hurt

  8. #16633
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlutterDash View Post
    Amy Rose is pretty good at fighting when sonic is locked up/getting hurt
    Why isn't she good at fighting all the time? Why is her weapon a hammer, a Japanese trope for the nagging-bitch archetype? Why does she have to be a gimmick character to her male counterpart? Why is she ****ing pink?

    I'm sure there was a way to add a non-sexist character to the Sonic universe. Amy Rose isn't it. She's "Legos for Girls" for Sonic, which is one of the issues across gaming as a whole the researcher seemed to be addressing.

    EDIT --

    Oh, man, as long as we're on the subject, you know what the Sonic franchise's next attempt at a female character was?



    A sexy bat. Whoo-boy.
    Last edited by Cipher; 14th June 2012 at 5:50 AM.

  9. #16634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenobitic View Post
    In regard to that, I think that Metroid: Other M is still one of the most telling documents about video game culture. .
    It's also a shitty game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
    Why is her weapon a hammer,
    Pow Hammer. But that's the weeaboo in me.

  10. #16635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
    But examples like those are few and far between. And then, as mentioned earlier, you have franchises that started out fairly respectful of their female protagonists like Resident Evil and Metroid, and have somehow gone backward during the last few years.
    This part bothers me, with Metroid as one of my all-time favorite series

    Other M was just

    bleh

    It would have been okay I guess, if not for the cutscenes that try to give the game depth where it's not needed

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  11. #16636
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    I actually liked Other M. Then again, I like a lot of things people around here hate. Super Smash Bros for example.

  12. #16637
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    What's wrong with SSB

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  13. #16638
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    Other M has okay gameplay, but everything else is god awful. The plot, the characters, everything.

    Like I would argue if it wasn't a Metroid game no one would defend it.

  14. #16639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatino95 View Post
    What's wrong with SSB
    To start with the basics. Any and all topics about SBB are banned indefinitely and likely permanently. Then there's the actual topics at hand. Any legitimate discussion to be found in them are quickly drowned out by off-topic flame wars and minimodding; mostly by people who don't even want to discuss the game said topic is about.

    There is no place for Smash Bros on SPPf. None at all.
    I'd like to be proven otherwise, but I'm very assured that won't be happening.

  15. #16640
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    The only real video game series that remains fairly gender-neutral with its characters that I can think of right now is Left 4 Dead.

    Though I could be wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSword7 View Post
    To start with the basics. Any and all topics about SBB are banned indefinitely and likely permanently. Then there's the actual topics at hand. Any legitimate discussion to be found in them are quickly drowned out by off-topic flame wars and minimodding; mostly by people who don't even want to discuss the game said topic is about.

    There is no place for Smash Bros on SPPf. None at all.
    I'd like to be proven otherwise, but I'm very assured that won't be happening.
    Uh, that doesn't really equal people "hating" it.

    And IIRC the main Serebii.net website is specifically for Pokemon and Super Smash Bros. games.

  16. #16641
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSword7 View Post
    There is no place for Smash Bros on SPPf. None at all.
    I'd like to be proven otherwise, but I'm very assured that won't be happening.
    My clan has a SSB tourny ever once in awhile. You've been proven other wise.


  17. #16642
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSword7 View Post
    How dare you! D:
    I'm under the impression that the internet can survive my appetite. At least I hope so!

  18. #16643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jb View Post
    It's also a shitty game.
    That's true, but it doesn't quite matter here.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSword7 View Post
    To start with the basics. Any and all topics about SBB are banned indefinitely and likely permanently. Then there's the actual topics at hand. Any legitimate discussion to be found in them are quickly drowned out by off-topic flame wars and minimodding; mostly by people who don't even want to discuss the game said topic is about.

    There is no place for Smash Bros on SPPf. None at all.
    I'd like to be proven otherwise, but I'm very assured that won't be happening.
    Well, that's more because of the flame wars that you mentioned that there isn't really much of a place for SSB here.
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  19. #16644
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    As long as the ban on SSB topics remains in place, so too stands my belief that SSB is disliked and unwanted here.

    I might as well start a bloody gamefaqs account.

  20. #16645
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSword7 View Post
    As long as the ban on SSB topics remains in place, so too stands my belief that SSB is disliked and unwanted here.

    I might as well start a bloody gamefaqs account.
    The ban is there because the threads are awful, not the game. I don't know if the original thread is still around, but look at that and you'll see it's there for a reason.

  21. #16646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sogeking View Post
    The ban is there because the threads are awful, not the game. I don't know if the original thread is still around, but look at that and you'll see it's there for a reason.
    By that logic, half of Misc should be locked. And I'm not saying that I believe it should be, but there's a few people who say Misc is full of bad threads.

  22. #16647
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSword7 View Post
    By that logic, half of Misc should be locked. And I'm not saying that I believe it should be, but there's a few people who say Misc is full of bad threads.
    Trust me, if you see the thread you'll see it's for the best, ask anyone who posted there, like Kirby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sogeking View Post
    Trust me, if you see the thread you'll see it's for the best, ask anyone who posted there, like Kirby.
    It can't be worse than some of the crap I've seen on gamefaqs boards. You'd swear there was twelve Dattebayos posting at once in some of them topics.

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    Walk into a game store. Look at which games are clearly marketed toward men and which ones are clearly marketed toward women. Take note of the number of games aimed at women and girls which are about cooking, babies, puppies/kittens, or being a pop star. Take note of how many of the games aimed at men feature women who look like they were taken from a Playboy centerfold while all the men wear full body armor. If you play one of the games, see how often the woman fits the "helpless little girl" archetype. I know there are exceptions certainly, but it's pretty apparent the video game industry is rife with sexism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cenobitic View Post
    I thought you were straight, Kreis.

  25. #16650
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSword7 View Post
    It can't be worse than some of the crap I've seen on gamefaqs boards. You'd swear there was twelve Dattebayos posting at once in some of them topics.
    The SSB thread here was the gamefaqs of the forums.

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