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Thread: Excadrill is gone, now what?

  1. #26
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    Screw Smogon and their bans. It makes me feel that they can do whatever they want, but I don't care. I'll still use Excadrill. Those who don't like just need to get over it. That and Speed Boost Blaziken, that things a beast. I feel like Smogon is banning what is made to make it more difficult so they can benefit and we can't.

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  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireflies View Post
    Screw Smogon and their bans. It makes me feel that they can do whatever they want, but I don't care. I'll still use Excadrill. Those who don't like just need to get over it. That and Speed Boost Blaziken, that things a beast. I feel like Smogon is banning what is made to make it more difficult so they can benefit and we can't.
    It's fine if you don't want to play with Smogon tiers. In fact, if you're using Speed Boost Blaziken and Excadrill, then you're obviously not playing by Smogon tiers. That said...why exactly are you posting in a thread about a Smogon tier metagame?

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jock View Post
    As a stall player, I'm not a fan of the Excadrill ban. Now Heavy Offense is a lot more prominent and Max Speed Acrobaticas Gliscor are starting to appear. I agree with your points about Drought and Drizzle, though. I think that the term of "winning the weather war" is less relevant with sand, as it isn't as dominating as Drought/Drizzle. Sand is merely quelling the other weather types when they 'Win the weather war'. Sun is going to dominate the metagame, most likely, considering how effective Volcarona is in Drought and the fact that Chlorophyll is still allowed, so stuff like Sawsbuck can rip through the metagame, the fire types are obviously more potent under drought, but Sawsbuck/Venu is a great cleaner.
    I think stall is more mindblowingly mighty than ever before. Without Excadrill threatening to sweep you as the last pokemon standing, or spinning all your hard earned hazards away, stall got a major boost. Jellicant also becomes a much better spinblocker since Starmie needs Thunder to beat the specially defensive variants, and Hitmontop is NU. The spinners have trouble against it. Heavy Offense is a pretty hard matchup for stall, but I think the pros out-weigh the cons. Quagsire helps against Heavy Offense on stall, especially when combined with Skarmory.

    I don't think Sun will completely dominate. Sun and Rain didn't get that much worse, and people will just run Terrakion, Landorus, or Tornados on their respective teams. Sun has the problem of type synergy, being tight against every metagame threat, and always had trouble winning the weather war.

    This is why Sun teams have been running Dugtrio lately, and why Sun hasn't been nearly as common as Sun or Rain. Dugtrio not only allows you to beat Sand pretty consistently, it allows you to become water tight with your Chlorophyll sweepers revenging most things. Jabba had a successful sun team without even abusing Chlorophyll sweepers.

    Max speed Acrobat Gliscor isn't very good by the way, and I would never use it. It isn't bulky, doesn't have great coverage, and plenty of things can switch into it or check it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    I honestly can care less. I hope to see more ingenuity with the higher level metagame now, but chances are I shall be dissapointed in that regard and we will just see a rise in a few pokemon; Dragonite and Volcarona were mentioned for examples by some people already.

    As for what we shall see afterwards, I doubt we will see more glass cannons and hyper offensive teams in there. There are still a ton of defensive pokemon in the metagame that can out-stall or downright cripple the unprepared still.

    I don't know...I honestly see very little changing fundamentally, the only thing is that some usage will go down for specific pokemons, and few will go up and maybe become popular.
    Dragonite and Volcarona are a double sided coin. Yes, there is one less pokemon to revenge them. On the other side though, there won't be Excadrill spinning undisputedly every single time, meaning Dragonite and Volcarona get nerfed by rocks more often.

    I believe there will be more heavy offense teams. They are just so good right now, and I witnessed a guy reach over 1500 points with it on Smogon PO without dual screens. Defensive pokemon will not stop you, if your entire team is meant to overwhelm them. The people who run heavy offense will be very well prepared to deal with the generic ways of dealing with sweepers. heavy offense will not completely dominate the metagame, but its usage will rise. It is like a smashpass team with more win conditions. High risk, high reward team.

    You can find the Heavy Offense thread for a guide. You can also find my numerous posts in that thread, the Heavy Offense RMTs, and this thread to learn more about it. When prepared, walls will not stop you.

    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=540753


  4. #29
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    I think Terrakion will get some more love that it deserves. It's fast enough to run a Choice Band set, and it's powerful enough to run a Choice Scarf set. It has good bulk for a sweeper, especially in sand on the special side. Using that bulk with its potent STAB coverage, it is one of the only viable double-boosters in the game. It can either boost attack or speed with a coverage move as well (X-Scissor).

    Also, I think Ttar will drop in usage to be replaced by Rotom-W at the coveted #1 spot.


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  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireflies View Post
    Screw Smogon and their bans. It makes me feel that they can do whatever they want, but I don't care. I'll still use Excadrill. Those who don't like just need to get over it. That and Speed Boost Blaziken, that things a beast. I feel like Smogon is banning what is made to make it more difficult so they can benefit and we can't.
    You do not have to follow Smogon's bans. Smogon is the standard banlist though, because they take the time to test everything. They also have the best players, and have reasons for everything they do. I can tell you that the people that voted Blaziken and Excadrill uber are mostly very strong BW OU players. They won't let a random person who whines vote on the tiers. They have the people who consistently abuse, or consistently beat the suspects vote on the tiers.

    Smogon is doing this to have a healthy metagame for all of us. As a very active member on Smogon, and a person who participated in these tests, I can assure you on the integrity of them. I myself participated to confirm the integrity, to have a say because I didn't always agree with everything they did, and to prove myself.

    Speed Boost Blaziken has like no checks or counters in Sun. At +2, you OHKO Latios with a resisted move. I can talk about Excadrill too, but Blue Harvest's post summed it up well enough. http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpos...&postcount=490


  6. #31
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    EXCADRILL BANNED!?Noooooo!Now whats gonna be on my team?Excadrill is one of my favorite Pokemon!

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNOVAGIRL View Post
    EXCADRILL BANNED!?Noooooo!Now whats gonna be on my team?Excadrill is one of my favorite Pokemon!
    It's been like this for about a week...

    I have claimed Giratina

  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by UNOVAGIRL View Post
    EXCADRILL BANNED!?Noooooo!Now whats gonna be on my team?Excadrill is one of my favorite Pokemon!
    Try Scarf Landorus or Terrakion if you were using it to revenge things.


  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamefreak View Post
    You do not have to follow Smogon's bans. Smogon is the standard banlist though, because they take the time to test everything. They also have the best players, and have reasons for everything they do. I can tell you that the people that voted Blaziken and Excadrill uber are mostly very strong BW OU players. They won't let a random person who whines vote on the tiers. They have the people who consistently abuse, or consistently beat the suspects vote on the tiers.

    Smogon is doing this to have a healthy metagame for all of us. As a very active member on Smogon, and a person who participated in these tests, I can assure you on the integrity of them. I myself participated to confirm the integrity, to have a say because I didn't always agree with everything they did, and to prove myself.

    Speed Boost Blaziken has like no checks or counters in Sun. At +2, you OHKO Latios with a resisted move. I can talk about Excadrill too, but Blue Harvest's post summed it up well enough. http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpos...&postcount=490
    Best players is highly debatable.

    And as for the voting committee, I won't deny that they are trying to look out and make everything more streamlined and integral to the competitive community as a whole, but there is a lack of vision sometimes, especially in the OU tier, when it comes to finding viable strategies, hence my cynicism about things not actually changing after the ban, minus a few getting a bit more use now.
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  10. #35
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    couple things i think will come out of exca's ban...

    • significant rise in ho teams. previously, you could just slap excadrill onto a team and not worry one bit about ho. it outran even boosted mons automatically, had the power to take out almost every offensive pokemon in existance, and didn't have the burden of a choice scarf, allowing it to easily run right through pure offensive teams at will. with it gone, i see a lot of glass cannon teams coming into play, especially with the power creep that b/w presented.

    • decline of sand; rise of rain. one of the main reasons to run sand was to abuse the speed, power, and utility of excadrill, but now with it being called up to ubers, teams are almost solely limited to landorus as a sand abuser. in contrast, the drop in sand use will open the door for a huge surge in rain abuse (if it wasn't already high enough). rain will most likely become the premier playstyle and almost overrun the metagame.

    • rise in scarf users. as stated before, players could just slap exca onto a team and fill numerous roles on a team all in one sitting. one of those roles was being the premier revenge killer and making scarf users almost obsolete. well, now that's changed and scarf users will once again come into the limelight as the premier way to revenge opposing offensive threats.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    Best players is highly debatable.
    No it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    And as for the voting committee, I won't deny that they are trying to look out and make everything more streamlined and integral to the competitive community as a whole, but there is a lack of vision sometimes, especially in the OU tier, when it comes to finding viable strategies, hence my cynicism about things not actually changing after the ban, minus a few getting a bit more use now.
    Alright, I can kind of see what you're saying here. To my understanding, you're saying that things like a Drought team remain static; say if Tyranitar got banned, people would still use Donphan to check something like Terrakion and be able to set up Stealth Rock / Spin. And how a Drizzle team can have the generic scheme of Politoed / Rotom-W / Scizor / Ferrothorn / Latios / Toxicroak, even though almost everyone has experience in playing these types of teams and easily laying waste to them. Is this right?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    Best players is highly debatable.
    Who else has players who even come close? If you can't make the voting requirements, don't bash on the players
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    I call hax, type some random racial slur all in caps, then ragequit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    I wish I was joking, but based off all the naked fights in my front lawn I do pretty well assuming the person isn't trying to kill me.

  13. #38

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    Doesn't affect me as I don't play on Smogon. I used Shell Smash Excadrill this morning to see what it was like. I'm cool with the ban. If he gets banned on PO, great. Now a major threat to my team is gone. Not that he deserves to be banned anyway.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by unovagirl View Post
    excadrill banned!?noooooo!now whats gonna be on my team?excadrill is one of my favorite pokemon!
    oh mai god what do!?!!?!?!:!

    Also, while I agree with Gamefreak that Stall may have benefited since Excadrill was the best Rapid Spinner in the game, Excadrill was also a nice tool for SemiStall itself, and provided a great means of Rapid Spin/Revenge Killing. Also, it usually didn't sweep as the last poke, as most legitimate stall teams at the time ran Gliscor/Bronzong and conserved it for most of the game.

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by PikaPika677 View Post
    I used Shell Smash Excadrill this morning to see what it was like.
    That sounds like fun. :P

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cometk View Post
    What are you talking about, replacement? So far I've seen nothing effectively replace Shaymin-S, Darkrai, Manaphy, Blaziken, or Garchomp. You can't really claim that Zapdos is the next Thundurus; Zapdos doesn't get Nasty Plot or Focus Blast. You can't really claim Sandslash is the next Excadrill; Sandslash has shittier stats in everything but defense, less immediate power, and no immunity to Toxic and Toxic Spikes. No Pokémon can be the exact same as another; Gliscor and Skarmory may have similar roles, but one can lay Spikes and use Whirlwind and another has a resistance to fighting and can use Earthquake. Similar Pokémon but with characteristics that make them fit more reliably to specific teams...
    Are you just ranting in this thread? I mean seriously, what are you hoping to be discussed here, how much we'll miss him or something?

  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    That sounds like fun. :P
    It's not too bad. Now you don't need Sandstorm and Swords Dance.

  18. #43
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    It's kinda good that Exca was banned, although I'm gonna be pretty screwed over when I can't find the poke to replace him. (there's landorus but no...I hate him)

    They could ban his ability however allowing him access only to sand force. That'd be the least they could do because I really don't want to see Excadrill like this forever...
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  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by PikaPika677 View Post
    It's not too bad. Now you don't need Sandstorm and Swords Dance.
    Yeah, if Shell Smash Excadrill was legal, you wouldn't even need Sand Rush. You could just run around in a Sandstorm with Sand Power boosted Earthquakes and Rock Slides (eat your heart out, Landorus). Heck, if Excadrill got Shell Smash, it wouldn't have taken him this long to be banned, lol.

  20. #45
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    I used my Excadrill as more of an anti-sandstorm. While I am making a Sandstorm team, I never planned for Excadrill to be part of it.
    I don't think Excadrill should have been banned, but it doesn't bother me too much. I think Excadrill had enough counters to remain in OU; its biggest counter being any other weather. It has high HP and good resistances, but I think with its low defenses, its high HP is almost meaningless.


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  21. #46

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    Wait, Shell Smash BP is banned on Smogon? That sucks lol

  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by PikaPika677 View Post
    Wait, Shell Smash BP is banned on Smogon? That sucks lol
    Oh, that. No, Shell Smash + Baton Pass isn't banned, although it was tested for UU. I thought you meant you hacked a Shell Smash Excadrill on your game or something. Lol, never mind. XD

  23. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    Best players is highly debatable.
    I am sure all the best players on this site would disagree with you. Heck, most of the best players on this site migrated to Smogon.

    The best players also anti metagame. They don't always follow every trend.


  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowKyogre443 View Post
    Are you just ranting in this thread? I mean seriously, what are you hoping to be discussed here, how much we'll miss him or something?
    Ok, avoid one of my posts, that's whatever. Avoid the entire topic, yeah you're approaching tinfoil hat status. The topic of this thread was to guage what people think will happen to the OU metagame without Excadrill. Do you think heavy offense will be harder to overcome? Do you think usage in Ninetales will spike?

    Read the mother****ing original post.

  25. #50
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    Weird, I totally forgot to bring up a possible counter, Flame Orb Mach Punch Conkeldurr. With Flame Orb+Guts, he gets up to 624 Attack. From Poke Marriland's Damage Calc, it does from 348 to 409 damage, at most leaving it with 10 HP left. May not really be a counter, but a check
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    I call hax, type some random racial slur all in caps, then ragequit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    I wish I was joking, but based off all the naked fights in my front lawn I do pretty well assuming the person isn't trying to kill me.

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