Community POTW #44

[Black Murder Heavangelon]

To use Granbull, you need to abuse all of his finer points while working around his downsides.

What does he have? Intimidate, 120 base attack, Heal Bell, Normal Typing. Low speed but in a Trick Room Team, it's an advantage.

Granbull@Choice Band
Brave - Intimidate
252 Atk - 252 HP - 4 Def
-Return
-Retaliate/Fire Punch
-Close Combat
-Crunch

Intimidate users have an easy time switching in and doing something, like Salamence back in Gen 4. Return is your main STAB, which deals insane damage from a Choice Band. Retaliate hurts even more when Revenge Killing, which you will commonly do in a Trick Room Team. Since you are on a timer, utilizing Destiny Bond and Explosion to deal quick KOs can make Retaliate effective, provided you have removed Ghosts. Even then, Ghosts will hate a properly predicted Crunch. Even max Def/HP Cofagrigus is 2HKO'd after Rocks. Close Combat is your strongest Fighting Move. The Defense drop may seem unappealing, but Intimidate remedies that for the turn. Fire Punch is an option if you don't have suicidal teammates.



Granbull@Leftovers
Relaxed - Intimidate
252 HP - 252 Def - 4 Atk
-Heal Bell
-Super Fang
-Return
-Crunch

A more defensive Granbull. This Granbull doesn't have to fear status as he can just ring them away with Heal Bell. The missing Attack stat is remedied with Super Fang, which softens up opponents for yourself or for your teammates. Return and Crunch are your offensive options. While a move to hit Steels harder would be preferable, Super Fang stills hits them which softens them up for a teammate. Crunch is just for Ghosts.

This set is also effective in Doubles, where Intimidate and Heal Bell can save suffering Trick Room users. Try it with a RestRoom (LOL) user.

[Kraleck]

In Singles, Gran' is horribly outclassed. Barring Trick Room, you have little chance. However, 3rd and 5th Gen gave us new options for it - Doubles and Triples (respectively).

In Multi (except Rotation) you can get so much more use out of Granbull. The prevalence of Earthquake, Rock Slide, and so many other Attack-based Moves makes Intimidate that much better.

Barring someone deeply in the know about Multi mechanics, Gran' can wreak a ton of havoc when other, more-threatening options arise. Why target Gran' in Doubles/Triples when Ferrothorn is a target...or Conkeldurr...or any number of typical Single Battle threats? Long story short, Gran' should be like the dog it is: Close to others that draw away attention.

Bringing Gran' to a serious one-on-one is like taking a Chihuahua to fight a lion - it's mean, but way outside of its weight class. In a group of targets, Gran's potential can burn like the sun. Drawing attention away from an ankle-biter like Granbull with an 800-pound gorilla like...well, anything more threatening in Singles...guarantees you'll lose a foot or two in Multi Battles...

[MetalCrow]

^So true it's not even funny...

Granbull's only true place is in Doubles and Triples where it can soften up opposition while inducing status and spamming Super Fang... Heal Bell is nice too...who would want to smack around a dog when you got the likes of everything else to worry about

[Kraleck]

^So true it's not even funny...

Granbull's only true place is in Doubles and Triples where it can soften up opposition while inducing status and spamming Super Fang... Heal Bell is nice too...who would want to smack around a dog when you got the likes of everything else to worry about

Much the same can be said of so many other Pokemon as well. The non-threats of Singles can wreak major havoc if left to run free in Doubles or Triples...

[Soperman]

Ah, grandbull. I used to love this guy. I mean, come on, base 120 Attack is pretty good. Alas, that is the only good thing stat wise. It has a meager base 45 Speed and pretty poor Defenses. His Hp is ok at least.

Abilities
Intimidate: Lowers opponent's Attack by one level every time he switches in. Essentially, it makes him bulkier, which is nice.
Quick Feet: Boosts Speed by one level when he has a status condition. This ability lets him sweep without the Choice Scarf. Also, it lets him absorb any status except for Paralysis, and Burn halves his Attack as well.
Rattled: This ability is easily his worst. Raises Speed by one level whenever he is hit by a Dark, Bug, or Ghost type attack. Now, considering Ghost can't even touch him, and his poor Defenses can't take very many hits, I wouldn't suggest this ability.

Movesets

Not-So-Happy Feet
-Outrage/Crunch
-Return
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs and Nature: Jolly (+Spd,-Sp. Atk)
4 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spd
Well, this isnt his only usable set, but this is his only sweeping set. Quick Feet and Toxic Orb to actually outspeed something, and the attacks are basically anything with a base power of 100 or more. Edgequake coverage to hit practically everything, plus Return for STAB. Outrage kills Dragons, but Crunch hits Ghosts. EVs for maximum sweepage.

SubPunch, Grandbull Edition
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Return
-Crunch/Thunderpunch/Bulk Up
Items: Leftovers/Muscle Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs and Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp. Atk)
252 Hp/200 Atk/56 Def
This set is for Substitute, and then to make him bulky enough to survive a couple of hits. Leftovers to restore health, but Muscle Band boosts Attack. First two attacks are obvious. Return is powerful STAB, with a base power of about 160 with STAB. Crunch to hit Ghosts, but Thunderpunch to hit Flying types like Drifblim or Skarmory. Bulk Up to boost Defense and Attack.

Running with a Scarf
-Return
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Outrage
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Any of the three work
Evs and Nature: Joly (+Spd, -Sp. Atk)
4 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spd
Same as the Quick Feet set, but with Choice Scarf. I say any ability because, honestly, any ability could work. Intimidate to make him bulkier, Rattled so he takes advantage of being hit, or Quick Feet so he can absorb statuses. Up to you.

Double and Triple Options
He doesn't have much besides his Attack that would be good. In fact, he would probably disable a Doubles or Triples team. Unless, of course, it is a Trick Room team.

Partners
People who take out Fighting types. Actually, Beeheyem is an amazing partner: it beats Fighting types back, and it can use Trick Room to make Granbull useful. Ironically, Fighting types are good for Granbull as well. They help take out Steel types.

Countering Granbull
If you can outspeed it, you can kill it. Any Fighting type will destroy Granbull. Steelix walls Granbull to death. Ghost types can switch in to most of his attacks and retaliate.
Honestly, Granbull isn't that great. There's a reason it's in NU.

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Guys, its only an inferior Ursaring if you make it one. Granbull has Intimidate, which gives him about as much bulk as Groudon or Metagross. It also gets Super Fang, Heal Bell, Thunder Wave and a ton of offensive options to compliment it.

Ursaring is clearly better at raw offense but Granbull is by far better at defensive support.

I'm sorry, but don't even try comparing Granbull to Metagross, much less Groudon. It's simply not in the same league. If you want to make a bulky Granbull, you'll have to sacrifice attack stats while I can make a bulky Metagross capable of surviving Slakings Earthquakes with 405 attack. Metagross also has a way better type combination with loads of resistances, a higher attack stat, better speed, and with proper EV investments Metagross can come in Skarmory territory on physical bulk (apart from the EQ weakness and the lack of a recovery move).

As a supporter it simply isn't built like one. It has the moves, but not the stats. It's too slow to support effectively, and defensively too frail. If your foe switches after they got intimidated their new pokémon doesn't have the lowered attack, so your bulk is gone, while on pokémon with the stats (like Metagross) the bulk stays. If I want a supporting normal type, I could get Blissey, who also gets Heal Bell and Thunder Wave, but way more defensive power.

In physical vs physical battles it may have the Intimidate advantage over Ursaring, but it still is no match for heavier ones out there, like Metagross, Salamence, Tyranitar, and so on. It's just in an entirely different league, and super fang isn't going to make up for that. In the lower tiers a Choice Banded Mega Kick or Double Edge will usually hurt a lot more than Super Fang will, especially later in the battle. Super Fang is fun if you are defensive and lack offence, but for an offensive slow glass cannon like Granbull it simply doesn't work as it doesn't KO, thus allowing your foe to set up, or just outright kill you.

[Blue Harvest]

I'm sorry, but don't even try comparing Granbull to Metagross, much less Groudon. It's simply not in the same league. If you want to make a bulky Granbull, you'll have to sacrifice attack stats while I can make a bulky Metagross capable of surviving Slakings Earthquakes with 405 attack. Metagross also has a way better type combination with loads of resistances, a higher attack stat, better speed, and with proper EV investments Metagross can come in Skarmory territory on physical bulk (apart from the EQ weakness and the lack of a recovery move).

As I said, Intimidate gives Granbull better defenses than Metagross. I don't mean 0/0 Metagross, I mean 252/252 Impish Metagross. 80/130 is less than 90/137.. Granbull takes physical hits better.

As a supporter it simply isn't built like one. It has the moves, but not the stats. It's too slow to support effectively, and defensively too frail. If your foe switches after they got intimidated their new pokémon doesn't have the lowered attack, so your bulk is gone, while on pokémon with the stats (like Metagross) the bulk stays. If I want a supporting normal type, I could get Blissey, who also gets Heal Bell and Thunder Wave, but way more defensive power.

Yeah, but this isn't OU we're talking about. Granbull is trash, useless in OU. Skarmory, Metagross and Blissey can not be used in lower tiers. This page is about finding uses for Granbull in NU / RU.

In physical vs physical battles it may have the Intimidate advantage over Ursaring, but it still is no match for heavier ones out there, like Metagross, Salamence, Tyranitar, and so on. It's just in an entirely different league, and super fang isn't going to make up for that. In the lower tiers a Choice Banded Mega Kick or Double Edge will usually hurt a lot more than Super Fang will, especially later in the battle. Super Fang is fun if you are defensive and lack offence, but for an offensive slow glass cannon like Granbull it simply doesn't work as it doesn't KO, thus allowing your foe to set up, or just outright kill you.

In lower tiers offensive Granbull is outclassed by Ursaring, which leaves its only viable options a defensive set of some sort.

[Vandslaux]

Agreed, defensive is it's best bet. Actually, isn't 90/137 nearly rivaling Lugia's 102/130 defenses?

[Kraleck]

Agreed, defensive is it's best bet. Actually, isn't 90/137 nearly rivaling Lugia's 102/130 defenses?

Remember that Intimidate will reduce the opponent's total Attack by 1/3 if at Stage 0. Your Base Defense isn't raised, so you still have 75 Defense if the opponent gets around you leaving immediately.

Plus, you must remember Intimidate isn't a guarantee:
-Defiant and Contrary boost Attack 1 stage after Intimidate (technically, down 1 stage, then immediately up 2 stages for Defiant)
-Several Abilities prevent Attack (or any Stat) from being reduced (Hyper Cutter, Clear Body, White Smoke)
-Several setups don't rely on Attack-based Moves (Special Attackers, Status Chuckers, Walls)
-Critical Hits ignore Attack de-buffs - watch out for Storm Throw, High-Critical Ratio Moves, Super Luck Ability, Focus Energy users, and Sniper Ability.
-Seismic Toss and Counter ignore the user's Attack entirely (so does Mirror Coat, but it's unlikely to be used against Gran').
-Power Swap, Heart Swap, and Power Split can be used against you.
-Mist prevents Intimidate outright as well.
-Psych Up can clear a -1 Attack Stage and gain any useful buffs Gran' got from a Baton Pass. Haze is also an obvious cure for -1 Attack Stage and is also anti-Baton Pass.
-Switching out clears stat changes anyway. U-Turn and Volt Switch give health-chipping power to a switch as added gravy.
-Swords Dance is always an option as well.

Really, if Intimidate, great Attack, and great Trick-Room-Speed are all you have, you need more than Move options - you need proper support.

[Blue Harvest]

Remember that Intimidate will reduce the opponent's total Attack by 1/3 if at Stage 0. Your Base Defense isn't raised, so you still have 75 Defense if the opponent gets around you leaving immediately.

Yes but its effectively the same defense boost.

-1 Aerodactyl LO Stone Edge vs 252/252 Granbull: 27.6% - 32.8%
+0 Aerodactyl LO Stone Edge vs 252/252 137 base def Granbull: 27.6% - 32.8%

Plus, you must remember Intimidate isn't a guarantee:
-Defiant and Contrary boost Attack 1 stage after Intimidate (technically, down 1 stage, then immediately up 2 stages for Defiant)

Defiant is pretty much exclusive to Bisharp. Braviary will get it as a DW move eventually while the rest of its users suck (Farfetch'd, lol).

Contrary.. Serperior, Shuckle and Spinda. Serperior is by far the most powerful user with a mind blowing 75 base attack and its wonderful physical movepool consisting of Leaf Blade and Return. Spinda sucks and Shuckle.. come on lol.

-Several Abilities prevent Attack (or any Stat) from being reduced (Hyper Cutter, Clear Body, White Smoke)

True, but with the exception of Eviolite Gligar and Metagross in OU few things actually use those abilities, preferring an alternate ability.

-Several setups don't rely on Attack-based Moves (Special Attackers, Status Chuckers, Walls)

Well lol, don't switch your physical tank in on non physical moves.

-Critical Hits ignore Attack de-buffs - watch out for Storm Throw, High-Critical Ratio Moves, Super Luck Ability, Focus Energy users, and Sniper Ability.

Storm Throw and the ice version are largely unused. High critical hit ratio moves.. well, can't do much about that.

-Seismic Toss and Counter ignore the user's Attack entirely (so does Mirror Coat, but it's unlikely to be used against Gran').

Thus defense means nothing here.

-Power Swap, Heart Swap, and Power Split can be used against you.

Power Swap / Heart Swap is useless / only on Manaphy. Power Split is only seen on.. Shuckle?

-Mist prevents Intimidate outright as well.

Besides being one of the coolest moves on Pokemon Stadium Mist is outright useless. Why waste a turn protecting yourself from stat reductions when you can just switch. Also if the intimidate Poke switches in while you mist you end up at -1 attack anyway.

-Psych Up can clear a -1 Attack Stage and gain any useful buffs Gran' got from a Baton Pass. Haze is also an obvious cure for -1 Attack Stage and is also anti-Baton Pass.

Psych Up is useless. Haze is slightly usable but its not worth the turn just to shake off -1 attack from Granbull, lol.

-Switching out clears stat changes anyway. U-Turn and Volt Switch give health-chipping power to a switch as added gravy.

Yes but Granbull has forced its opponent out, and gained a free turn to do whatever it wants.. Super Fang, Heal Bell, Thunder Wave, attack etc.

-Swords Dance is always an option as well.

This is where intimidate is superior. If Granbull switches in on Absol or whatever as it Swords Dances and dies to a +1 hit then even though Granbull died it wasn't in vain.. the Swords Dancer is left at +1 instead of +2.

Really, if Intimidate, great Attack, and great Trick-Room-Speed are all you have, you need more than Move options - you need proper support.

Never, ever use Trick Room as a reason to use a Pokemon. Trick Room sucks. Granbull actually isn't too bad as an offensive Thunder Waver. He doesn't need team support, he IS team support.

[Ice Blue Dragon]

Serperior is by far the most powerful user with a mind blowing 75 base attack and its wonderful physical movepool consisting of Leaf Blade and Return.

^I should sig this because it is so true.

On topic, granbull's defensive set looks really cool with intimidate, as it can status the switch in and (hopefully) wall it.

[Vandslaux]

Of course Reno's going to make the defensive set look like a gimmick, though.

[windsong]

Nominating user Blue Harvest for running POTW because she actually plays Pokes.

(on the serebiiamerica xat this has received a 2/3 +1 majority, and thus should be passed!)

edit: list of users who support this proposition;

Gamefreak
Regarde (sucks)
OTHERS

[Yeul]

I nominate Blue Harvest aswell. She loves doggies.

[Ice Blue Dragon]

I support it to, BH is an experienced player and knows what she is talking about.

[WeatherEffectRain]

Nominating user Blue Harvest for running POTW because she actually plays Pokes.

(on the serebiiamerica xat this has received a 2/3 +1 majority, and thus should be passed!)

edit: list of users who support this proposition;

Gamefreak
Regarde (sucks)
OTHERS

I nominate Blue Harvest aswell. She loves doggies.

Uhh... We're voting for BH to take over POTW? Lol. It's no contest. *Nominate Blue Harvest*

[Montresor]

I support BH being put in charge of POTW :3

[Black Murder Heavangelon]

I don't because she said trick room sucks. :c

But yeah. Just because it's an anti metagame move doesn't mean it's not an option for any pokemon set. In fact, some pokemon can only work in Trick Room in the higher tiers and it should be mentioned whenever relevant.

We've already established that Granbull doesn't stand a chance in Singles, but Trick Room is better played in Doubles anyway.

[Vandslaux]

I nominate BH too. Reno, please, stop with the gimmick sets, the POTW is supposed to teach new players about that pokemon, not lead them into thinking that a gimmick set is viable.

[GOLDENCRS]

I agree

10char

[ThatsJustPeachy]

I nominate BH, the numbers show that this pokemon is well equipped everywhere and I mean everywhere

Also her legitimacy is too high.

[YourPermanentRecord631]

I nominate BH as well

[Vandslaux]

I count 11 people.

[Serebii]

For the last time people, these threads are for discussion of the Pokémon only. If you have any grievances, bring them to me, don't spam the thread with them. This is your last warning and I will infract you if you persist