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Thread: Heavy Offense Post-Excadrill and Thundurus

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    Default Heavy Offense Post-Excadrill and Thundurus

    Heavy Offense Post-Excadrill and Thundurus


    Introduction

    Hello to all of you. Welcome to my latest RMT. This is a very good example of what a Heavy Offense team should look like. I'm beginning to see a lot more RMTs of what HO shouldn't look like lately. Part of the reason why I'm even posting this in the first place is just to show a good example. I would also like to showcase my team. If you do not know anyhting about HO, please do not post because it will not only make me mad, but it will also annoy the actual knowledgeable people who are viewing this thread. Anyways, here's a link to the HO guide:http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=541205. Learn from it. This team is heavily based on my old HO team, but that one doesn't have as nice write-ups or any pictures at all really. Here's the link:http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=539784. I began playing HO around August, when I threw a bunch of sweepers on a team and called it a day. It didn't use many of the fundamentals of HO. So anyways, I posted it on Serebii, and it attracted attention from people such as Oh, Romeo and DarumakkaImposter, who in turn taught me the basics of HO. This was a time when Excadrill was running rampant, f*cking up speed tiers. I learned further from Gamefreak, who taught me some of the finer points of HO, and after that I was assisted by Skynet who helped patch up my team and brought me forward to the 1337 mark. This team peaked at 97 on the Smogon ladder with a 1342 rating, and is a result of all of that.


    Team at a Glance



    Under the Microscope



    Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt

    This is a standard Deoxys-S lead for HO. The purpose of a lead in HO is to set up dual screens to make it easier for your sweepers to set up, set up Stealth Rock to turn 2HKOs into OHKOs, and Taunt to stop other leads from getting up hazards and setting up. Light Clay is to make the screens actually good for something, as Deoxys doesn't need a Sash when it can survive Choice Band Scizor Bug Bites with Reflect up. Maximum speed with a speed-boosting nature is really just to speed tie with other Deoxys. Max HP investment allows it to take a lot of things, and 4 Defense doesn't really do much. Its taken a jump in usage lately, and I fear that we may not be able to abuse this thing much longer.


    Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast

    This is a more or less standard but somewhat unpredictable DD Mence set. This is not a reference to my last RMT, but is something just completely amazing all on its own. While this may not be useful in outspeeding and killing everything one at a time, it leaves my opponent's team in ruins after taking out anything that could possibly stop any of my other sweepers from getting the job done. And it is extremely effective at what it does. It is also a godsend against things that have somehow set up on me with Intimidate. Dragon Claw is for STAB, Earthquake hits Steels, Toxicroak, and Tentacruel while Fire Blasts f*cks Skarm and Ferro. It is also a solid check to Scizor. Max Attack to maximize damage, max speed to tie with other base 100s with a Naive nature, and the remaining 4 go into Sp. Atk, whatever difference that may make.


    Haxorus (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Swords Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake

    This is a Double Dance Haxorus, capable of doing unspeakable things to opponents. When I started using it, it was lurking on Smogon's forums, unseen to most. Now however, it is on the main site, and people are more prepared to deal with it now. It uses a standard Haxorus spread, not a standard sweeper spread. Adamant nature with max attack investment allow it to reach 432 attack, and only 220 Speed EVs allow it to outspeed Dragonite while retaining a little bulk. While the 36 HP EVs may not seem necessary, they are invaluable for living certain attacks such as max Sp. Atk LO Reuniclus Psychic, max Sp. Atk LO Chandelure Shadow Ball, max Attack LO Landorus Earthquake, and some max attack LO Terrakion Close Combats. The idea is to DD if certain thins need to be outsped, and SD if power is more desirable. Outrage is for ultra-powerful STAB with a Lum Berry, and Earthquake is to hit Steels that resist Outrage.


    Scrafty (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch

    This is a DD Scrafty, complete with the best of both worlds, Lum Berry and Moxie. I originally had a DD Tar to screw over rain stall and make it a special sponge, but Scrafty does that just as well without the sandstorm killing me slowly. It also helped with the Scizor weakness I had then. This set was recommended to me by Skynet, and I absolutely love it. Standard sweeper EVs are complimented by Moxie and a Jolly nature, allowing it to outspeed base 110s and Tornadus after a DD. Hi Jump Kick and Crunch provide perfect coverage, and Ice Punch hits Gliscor and Dragons hard. This thing hits ridiculously hard after a couple Moxie boosts, OHKOing Scizor straight up, and is certainly the move of choice.


    Cloyster (M) @ White Herb
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 Atk / 12 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Shell Smash
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Hydro Pump

    This is a Shell Smash Cloyster, one of the most underrated threats in the metagame. The sheer power of this thing is unbelievable. With a speed-boosting nature and 244 speed EVs, it can outrun Scarf Terrakion as well as some versions of Venusaur, the only prominent X2 speed in weather abuser. Mixed Cloyster is incredibly hard to counter, boasting the power to destroy most defensive cores. Icicle Spear reaches an astonishing base power of 187.5 with Skill Link and STAB, and Rock Blast is the move of choice to hit bulky Waters. Hydro Pump is great against Scizor and Skarm, and is what makes Cloyster so difficult to counter. Bring it in to revenge on physical Dragons, Gliscor and Landorus, and other bulky Grounds, then just sit back and enjoy the ride.


    Terrakion @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    Terrakion is one of the best Pokemon in the game, and only now it is being truly realized. It has two great STABs, good Speed, great Attack, and the bulk to pull of a double-booster set. I originally ran an Air Balloon to check Excadrill, but now that it's gone I was free to slap on a Life Orb without paying the price. It is generally used late-game, although I have to pull out a little early if a Volcarona, which are becoming more and more common, decides to rear its ugly head. Max Attack and Speed; nothing else much to say about it.


        Spoiler:- Importable!:



    Final Look



    Conclusion

    Heavy Offense is a playstyle that is frowned upon by many, known about about completely by few, and the benefits reaped are for fewer still. Heavy Offense has certainly gained a lot from the recent bans of Excadrill and Thundurus, but that has left it in a position in which Deoxys-S is nearly uncounterable and will almost surely be banned soon. I may have some more laddering in me, but I'm sure someone like Gamefreak or Skynet could take this team and go top of the ladder with it. It's a lot more fun to play HO than really anything else in my opinion, but there will still be people who just throw six random sweepers on a team and call it a day. Those people may abandon this, or they may learn what true Heavy Offense is, and how to exploit it to their fullest extent. Abuse it while you can, folks.


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    Reserved for threatlist.


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    Add Weavile to your threatlist, even though it's not OU. It rips your team in half.

    Superpower on Deoxys will help it be less Pursuit-trappable, but I don't see any move worth giving up. With Team Preview, the team's Tyranitar or Scarf Latios (or Weavile) will be up first to counter Deoxys, so be prepared for that.

    Your synergy is also a bit unstable. Typewise, Salamence is your team's only real protection against Fighting and Ground. EdgeQuake is a huge problem for this team, since any pokemon that resists one is weak to the other (except Scrafty). Bolt Beam is also a problem, since only Haxorus blocks Electric. Given all of that, your team would theoretically have a hard time against Starmie, Porygon-2, Tyranitar, Rotom, Weavile, Donphan, Zapdos, and Scarf Terrakion, and even rare BoltBeamers like Jolteon.
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    who uses scarf latios? and the point of deoxys is to set up screens, taunt for extra turn of screening, and setting up rocks. thats all. the only problem is that deoxys is taunt bait to anything with prankster, which are becoming less and less common

    i agree with you on one thing, you have too many pokemon of the same type. here is what i would switch from your team:

        Spoiler:- Switcheroo:

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    The key to Heavy Offense is offensive synergy, not defensive synergy. While in theory I may be weak to EdgeQuake, it's all set-up fodder for Cloyster. Besides dual screens allow me to survive almost anything, and set up and outspeed.


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    Lol, your salamence moveset isn't unpredictable. Everyone uses that moveset.

    For scrafty personally I would go with drain punch because I'm a scaredy cat, but that's just me.
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    Alright, I'm using a variation of this after you made me think about doing this after my team wasn't working. And all I have to say is "Thank you so much" This is a really wonderful strategy for me, and I really like it. Haven't lost at all of the 4 matches I've played. So, thanks.
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    Biggest problem is that even with the stone edge/ earthquake weaknesses, you are still vunerable to powerful hits from the special side, not to mention the fact that the dual screens can be totally destroyed by one brick break or an infiltrator user. Starmie and Latios can also rip holes through most of the pokemon here, they are faster and have high enough special attacks to counter-balance the teams weaknesses, so you will have to switch because wearing the opponent down will be difficult otherwise, especially if you lose the two dragons and Terrakion after the fact, ergo your best attackers (in theory at least, from what I saw they had the highest base ratings so would require less setups for sweeping)

    Gliscor can potentially wall half of them, A Scizor can come close to breaking through on Deoxys-S with a bug bite technician hit, even with screens up, or Whimsicott and Tornadus can just taunt it to death in it's current form. Then all you need then is a speedy phazer to f*ck with you while they juggle you out over some entry hazards, a wall like Skarmory to hold the line against everything but Scrafty and Terrakion, A Ghost like Jellicent or Golurk to counter the fighters, etc. A balanced team could rip through this, and honestly I am a bit surprised it has not happened, since you claim to have great success in it's current form. I am to assume you mean against standard team matchups, not just other HO teams.

    Hell, I can probably make a whole team that would counter this setup here. I hate be so harsh, but I think you are relying too heavily on the fighting/dragon types here, and Cloyster as your only check is not really that viable.

    As far as what to switch out, I honestly don't know. Maybe add Scizor or Breloom, they both can work real well, Jirachi as an all out attacker is also possible, maybe even a Mamoswine for extra coverage that you are lacking sorely. Haxorus might be a great hitter, but it's the slowest of the bunch so I would let it go first. Then maybe Scrafty, although you lose type coverage and your best defender there too.

    Overall, I am just not that impressed here dude. Sorry to say.
    Last edited by LinksOcarina; 3rd November 2011 at 5:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    Biggest problem is that even with the stone edge/ earthquake weaknesses, you are still vunerable to powerful hits from the special side, not to mention the fact that the dual screens can be totally destroyed by one brick break or an infiltrator user. Starmie and Latios can also rip holes through most of the pokemon here, they are faster and have high enough special attacks to counter-balance the teams weaknesses, so you will have to switch because wearing the opponent down will be difficult otherwise, especially if you lose the two dragons and Terrakion after the fact, ergo your best attackers (in theory at least, from what I saw they had the highest base ratings so would require less setups for sweeping)

    Gliscor can potentially wall half of them, A Scizor can come close to breaking through on Deoxys-S with a bug bite technician hit, even with screens up, or Whimsicott and Tornadus can just taunt it to death in it's current form. Then all you need then is a speedy phazer to f*ck with you while they juggle you out over some entry hazards, a wall like Skarmory to hold the line against everything but Scrafty and Terrakion, A Ghost like Jellicent or Golurk to counter the fighters, etc. A balanced team could rip through this, and honestly I am a bit surprised it has not happened, since you claim to have great success in it's current form. I am to assume you mean against standard team matchups, not just other HO teams.

    Hell, I can probably make a whole team that would counter this setup here. I hate be so harsh, but I think you are relying too heavily on the fighting/dragon types here, and Cloyster as your only check is not really that viable.

    As far as what to switch out, I honestly don't know. Maybe add Scizor or Breloom, they both can work real well, Jirachi as an all out attacker is also possible, maybe even a Mamoswine for extra coverage that you are lacking sorely. Haxorus might be a great hitter, but it's the slowest of the bunch so I would let it go first. Then maybe Scrafty, although you lose type coverage and your best defender there too.

    Overall, I am just not that impressed here dude. Sorry to say.
    Alright. I've been using this, except I don't use the scrafty, instead using an agiligross, and my mence has moxie. And there are a few problems, but not a lot. S-deo max defense can actually take about 2-3 of szizors bug bite with screens. Haxorus may be a little slower, but it is a great all out attacker. If that thing EVER sets up even one or two dd, then starts outraging with a lum berry, it's practically game over, unless you have a mamoswine or weavile with ice shard. Not even a ferrothorn, gliscor or scarmory can take more than two hits from that much raw power. And mence has Fire blast to deal with scarmory and ferro as well. This set does have some problems with jellicent, especially ones that will-o-wisp. It practically walls the entire team. I don't think this would be as bad if I was using a scrafty, though, and meta's thunderpunch can 2hko it. Also, meta has ice punch to deal with gliscors that think they can wall it. Plus it has some defense ev's and can take an earthquake from even a non swords danced excadrill.
    As far as other HO teams go, this setup is about average, and it really depends on what the other team is using. I will agree. This set could most definitely use more coverage, and a scizor with technician or a mamoswine would work well here. But that means you have to drop something. So scizor could replace metagross. and you could drop hax or mence for mamoswine since mamo gets stab earthquake and that way you don't have 3 earthquake users. One thing I noticed about this team is the lack of fire types, which are pretty darn important. So an infernape replacing something like scrafty would also work well.
    Overall, this team works fairly well, but needs more coverage. However, the strategy does really well for me, and is a lot better than others that i've used, for me at least.

    EDIT: Oh, and about special attackers. Yep, I agree. A special attacker like latios with draco meteor or starmie with ice beam and surf pretty much tears apart this team. If you don't have something set up before one of these comes out, you're pretty much done for. Opposing cloysters can also destroy this team, especially after they shell smash. Their icicle spear can kill the dragons, and hydro pump or waterfall kill terrakion really quick. What I usually have to do is send in meta with thunder punch, or hope my terrakion can stone edge or close combat before they shell smash. I think that having a special attacker, just one, maybe a volcarona for fire coverage, on this team could really do it some good.
    But with a slight variation of this team, I am currently sitting at a higher ranking in one day of using this than my time with my previous balanced set. (and I had to recreate my profile entirely, ie reinstall PO to use this team.)
    Last edited by xXShinyUmbreonXx; 3rd November 2011 at 7:58 PM.
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    First off nice team! Old school phyical Hyper Offence is my speciality! It was a pleasure having that ladder session with you and hopefully it broadened your eyes to how I play HO and how to get the best out of your team, well done on breaking the 1337 rating thats your short term goal complete.

    Now on the rate, I don't want to change any team members as I know you tryed and tested many sweepers and these 5 have given you the best results so far, but I still think a few small changes here and there will give your team a nice lease of life. on Salamence I would test Lum Berry over Life orb and test Outrage over Dragon Claw now Salamence can function as the old beast he once was. Just after one DD his Outrages will wreak havoc and open holes for your other sweepers to take advantage of.

    Next, I would test Life Orb over Lum Berry on Haxorus, as you are using Mold Breaker I found just missing the KO to be very frustrating and no one likes to lose a battle just because you just barely missed a KO!

    Well done!

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    Ok, I have tested those things. On Mence, I prefer the Life Orb, since I usually am only able to set up 1 DD. I miss out on many important KOs, such as Tyranitar with EQ being the most notable. Salamence is mainly my wall-breaker, although it can also sweep. Giving Haxorus a Life Orb makes that my wall-breaker, and it is better setting up 2 DDs, then Outrage spamming. What I'm getting at is that they outclass each other at what I tested, and are better off wall-breaking and DD sweeping, respectively.


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