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Thread: Gun Culture and Responses to Mass Shootings

  1. #1
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    Default Gun Culture and Responses to Mass Shootings

    According to this American Mass Shooting Tracker, as of this time there have been 179 mass shooting in the USA in 2016 alone. The most notorious at this time (yet not even most recent) occurred at Pulse, a gay night club in Orlando, Florida, where a gunman killed 50 and injured 53. The gunman's father said that one time, the man "became angry with displays of affection by gay men."

    Some say that stricter gun laws could have prevented the killer from so easily purchasing a weapon designed to kill with such efficiency. The gun control debate appears again and again with each mass shooting, but nothing ever changes. Many say that if the Sandy Hook shooting, which resulted in the deaths of 20 children and their teachers, couldn't change people's views on gun laws, nothing will.

    Meanwhile, the NRA and other gun advocates use this as yet another excuse for preaching that more Americans should be armed, and how gun-free zones are dangerous.

    Additionally, in the wake of this shooting, many have minimized the atrocity as a targeted hate crime towards LGBTQ folks, and some have focused their hate on Muslims as a whole. This erasure of a minority that continues to suffer due to widespread homophobia and transphobia, and the renewed hate towards a different, persecuted minority, ignore the big picture and hurt many.


    What are your thoughts on American gun culture? How do you feel about the responses to mass shootings, both from the media and from the public? How do we change this systematic pattern that seems not to exist in any other country (on equal standing)?

    ~Psychic
    Last edited by Psychic; 14th June 2016 at 4:43 AM.

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    American gun culture is highly connected to hypermasculinity. Even in the cases of "safety and security". Our attachment to the gun is very different from other gun-touting countries.

    Look at our media. Video games, movies, so many examples of guns being used as a way to show power. A way to express masculinity almost as if it's simply an extension of the man itself. This is the single more source of mass shootings if you personally ask me.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
    Quick, someone get the scientific community onto this one! A truly brilliant hypothesis that would have been insofar overlooked by every researcher who has contributed to this field of science. And it's only 8th grade stuff!
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    The most ridiculous part is that this guy was investigated by the FBI MULTIPLE times, I'm sorry but if you've been investigated by the FBI, there should be no way in hell you can purchase any sort of gun for any purpose whatsoever.

    What the gun advocates don't understand is that we aren't trying to ban people from having guns, we are trying to make it harder for unstable people to get their hands on them. If you've been trained, if you are certified, if you've passed a background check, if you've passed a psychological evaluation, then by all means, have all the guns you want.

    Also assault weapons that can rapidly fire multiple rounds in quick succession should be banned outright. There is NO reason you need those EVER unless it is part of your job that you have one. You can't hunt with those as the animal would be dust and you certainly don't need 50 rounds to ward off some home intruders.
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    He did legally own and register his weapon IIRC. Also, he had average joe jobs with a divorce. He was a security officer for the past few months.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
    Quick, someone get the scientific community onto this one! A truly brilliant hypothesis that would have been insofar overlooked by every researcher who has contributed to this field of science. And it's only 8th grade stuff!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Zero
    I roam Johto with my partner Pokemon, Rattata, who knows Hyper Fang, Sunny Day, Rock Smash and Cut. Anyone who runs with more than one Pokemon or evolves their Pokemon takes the game way too seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostAnime View Post
    He did legally own and register his weapon IIRC. Also, he had average joe jobs with a divorce. He was a security officer for the past few months.
    But he just recently brought those weapons. I mean how does a background check not show up that you've been investigated by the FBI for crying out loud. That should be an automatic fail on a background check.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    But he just recently brought those weapons. I mean how does a background check not show up that you've been investigated by the FBI for crying out loud. That should be an automatic fail on a background check.
    I completely agree on that. The multi round guns should be illegal as you said, and anyone who has been investigated shouldn't have guns. I've also heard people argue if the people in the club had guns then it might not have happened this way, which I think is a ****ed up opinion to say it nicely because obviously there is no need for a gun in a club or public place in general.

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    The fact that he got a gun even though he was on the fbi watchlist is a sign that we should reform our gun laws immediately.

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    We tried before after San Bernadino but Republicans block the measure.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/1...mocrats-216389

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    Remember we had classrooms full of kindergartners massacred and they couldn't even ban extended magazines as a result. The NRA gives too much money to Republicans so they just won't pass the legislation that's needed.

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    Those politicians are literally profiteering off of murder. How can you be involved with law (as, of course, a member of congress is) while profiteering off of murder without there being a significant conflict of interest?

    Oh right, it's fine as long as they're not straight white Christian men.

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    Jackpot!

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    A good video portraying the other side of the argument.

    I won't even pretend like I'm good at debating, mostly because I really don't have to time to sit and bicker about this with people who's minds won't be changed. However, this video here provides a lot of depth about just what is a, 'mass shooting', and how this factors into the gun culture argument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cometstarlight View Post
    A good video portraying the other side of the argument.

    I won't even pretend like I'm good at debating, mostly because I really don't have to time to sit and bicker about this with people who's minds won't be changed. However, this video here provides a lot of depth about just what is a, 'mass shooting', and how this factors into the gun culture argument.
    That guy is only debunking another video. I could debunk his video, but I doesn't mean that I won the gun control debate.
    Jackpot!

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    We do not need to ban guns. What we NEED is:

    1. More extensive background checks.

    2. Psychiatric assessment of anyone who wants to buy a gun.

    3. Seminars and training courses for anyone desiring to buy guns, on both gun safety and the results of unsafe use.

    4. Harsher punishments for gun dealers who sell to unauthorized individuals.

    5. Closing of the "gun show loophole".

    6. Limited ability and disciplining of lobbyists like the NRA. (It worked for the cigarette lobby after all.)
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    7. Limitations on magazine size.

    Tell me again, who needs an assault rifle in their day-to-day life? (I mean, who needs a gun at all, but one designed explicitly for efficacy in murdering human beings in particular...)

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    I feel bad for Obama having to address the nation every time this happens. It looks like he's pretty tired of saying the same things again and again.

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    I would have done away with guns completely. Destroy every last gun in existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent99 View Post
    We do not need to ban guns. What we NEED is:

    1. More extensive background checks.

    2. Psychiatric assessment of anyone who wants to buy a gun.

    3. Seminars and training courses for anyone desiring to buy guns, on both gun safety and the results of unsafe use.

    4. Harsher punishments for gun dealers who sell to unauthorized individuals.

    5. Closing of the "gun show loophole".

    6. Limited ability and disciplining of lobbyists like the NRA. (It worked for the cigarette lobby after all.)
    Actually we do NEED to BAN assault level weapons because NO ONE needs to own one of those outside of people who have them for their jobs. But I agree with the rest of your points and I echoed them above.
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    I agree with bobjr. Nothing will happen until any meaningful gun control legislation gets passed, so you might as well just kick back, relax, and watch the bodies pile up.
    Last edited by Baba Yaga; 15th June 2016 at 9:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Admiral View Post
    7. Limitations on magazine size.

    Tell me again, who needs an assault rifle in their day-to-day life? (I mean, who needs a gun at all, but one designed explicitly for efficacy in murdering human beings in particular...)
    Thnx, forgot that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baba Yaga View Post
    I agree with bobjr. Nothing will happen until any meaningful gun control legislation gets passed, so you might as well just kick back, relax, and watch the bodies pile up.
    At the very least, apparently the Senate has agreed to vote on universal background checks and closing the terror gap, after Chris Murphy's fourteen-hour-plus filibuster.

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    For the record, here is the wording of the Second Amendment:
    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
    If guns were used against the "security of a free state", I would argue that the lack of gun control ruins the purpose of the second amendment.

    Also, gun right activists are needlessly defensive about gun control.

    "You can't take away our guns!"- You have the ability to own guns. The second amendment has no bearing on highly destructive guns that didn't exist yet.
    "What would happen in a gun free zone."- Let me tell you what happens in a gun allowed zone. A person loaded with a gun going somewhere to shoot people is technically not disobeying the law until he takes the gun out and shoots. It's a law break in a matter of seconds.
    "Criminals will always own guns."- To an extent, that is true, but our system makes it a lot easier for them to obtain it. There doesn't need to be an underground market if any aspiring terrorists have no legal trouble with guns.
    "People would be dying less if they were armed."- I don't see how bullets flying from many places makes places safer. People who are trained to own potentially lethal guns can still make mistakes. The lack of any knowledge of guns puts that person in some potential danger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auraninja View Post
    For the record, here is the wording of the Second Amendment:

    If guns were used against the "security of a free state", I would argue that the lack of gun control ruins the purpose of the second amendment.

    Also, gun right activists are needlessly defensive about gun control.

    "You can't take away our guns!"- You have the ability to own guns. The second amendment has no bearing on highly destructive guns that didn't exist yet.
    "What would happen in a gun free zone."- Let me tell you what happens in a gun allowed zone. A person loaded with a gun going somewhere to shoot people is technically not disobeying the law until he takes the gun out and shoots. It's a law break in a matter of seconds.
    "Criminals will always own guns."- To an extent, that is true, but our system makes it a lot easier for them to obtain it. There doesn't need to be an underground market if any aspiring terrorists have no legal trouble with guns.
    "People would be dying less if they were armed."- I don't see how bullets flying from many places makes places safer. People who are trained to own potentially lethal guns can still make mistakes. The lack of any knowledge of guns puts that person in some potential danger.
    The problem is this. When it comes to gun control and stopping shootings, it's a situation where you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    Let's say there is a complete and outright ban on all firearms in the future (hypothetical scenario, SOMEHOW the planets align and Congress agrees to this). The general consensus among gun control advocates seems to be that this would make the US like Canada and reduce the crime rate, leaving guns only in the hands of the military and maybe the police.

    The problem is this would cause cartels that sell illegal drugs to start selling illegal firearms (some of them already do). And unlike the current system which does at least SOMETIMES employ background checks and other security measures, cartels don't care about any of that as long as they make money. Cartels are already doing other things illegally, so doing this as well wouldn't be that much different from what's already going on with them.

    On the same note, if you ban individuals under investigation from purchasing firearms, that's well and good. But then you run into the issue that they could just have their family members or friends buy the weapon instead. They may be under investigation, but that doesn't mean those people are too.

    I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with the prospect of gun control (I don't disagree with it. We definitely need tougher gun laws.). I'm just saying it's very difficult to police this, because there are so many ways around it. And that's IF everyone's willing to enforce it. As history has shown us, this is not always the case.
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    You know, I hate when people use the criminals will still do it excuse because it's BS. It's like saying we should get rid of the drinking age all together because underage people still do it or cigarette laws, or drunk driving laws like it sounds absolutely ridiculous but somehow for gun laws it makes complete sense.

    Let's just get rid of all laws since criminals are gonna do it anyways like the stupidity is strong here. These laws are here to stop everyday people from harming themselves or others, not criminals. These kids or everyday gun users aren't criminals, these laws have nothing to do with criminals.

    Criminals are gonna do whatever the hell they want, laws or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    You know, I hate when people use the criminals will still do it excuse because it's BS. It's like saying we should get rid of the drinking age all together because underage people still do it or cigarette laws, or drunk driving laws like it sounds absolutely ridiculous but somehow for gun laws it makes complete sense.

    Let's just get rid of all laws since criminals are gonna do it anyways like the stupidity is strong here. These laws are here to stop everyday people from harming themselves or others, not criminals. These kids or everyday gun users aren't criminals, these laws have nothing to do with criminals.

    Criminals are gonna do whatever the hell they want, laws or not.
    Kind of sounds like what you're saying is the only people that will benefit from laws banning firearms would be the people that have the intent to harm others, because there won't be that extra deterrent in the possibility that the victims could be armed.
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