Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

[Razor Xtreme]

People are too politically correct nowadays, and no one knows how to accept anyone else's opinions nowadays, I can tolerate gays, but that's not enough for some people, they expect me to bow to them or something. F no. I'll be tolerant, and they should be happy with that.
Don't like it? Oh well, it's my opinion, not yours.

[marioguy]

People are too politically correct nowadays, and no one knows how to accept anyone else's opinions nowadays, I can tolerate gays, but that's not enough for some people, they expect me to bow to them or something. F no. I'll be tolerant, and they should be happy with that.
Don't like it? Oh well, it's my opinion, not yours.

We can see how "tolerant" you are of other based on your last post. Oh wait. That was deleted. I wonder why..,

You're may be trying to be tolerant of gays, but you're really not. It was pretty obvious when you said that gay people coming out somehow offends you. You just want gays to disappear from your vision so you don't have to deal with them.

[Gergovia]

People are too politically correct nowadays, and no one knows how to accept anyone else's opinions nowadays, I can tolerate gays, but that's not enough for some people, they expect me to bow to them or something. F no. I'll be tolerant, and they should be happy with that.
Don't like it? Oh well, it's my opinion, not yours.

It's not being politically correct, it's just that your claim of "I dont have any problems with gay people" was challenged and scrutinized because of other things said in your post. The fact of the matter is, if you were truly comfortable with gay people, why would people admitting that they're gay on TV bother you? There's plenty of other things to be bothered about in regards to the media, but of all of them, gay people do? So what? Who cares? So you see a bunch of fruit cakes parading the streets with rainbows and glitter? The fact that you not only do care, and that such trivial things actually bother you, and the on top of that you suggest there's some sort double standard or inequality towards straight people "If someone said they were straight they'd get a lawsuit." highly suggests, and raises due suspicion that you really aren't as okay with gay people as you project yourself to be.

If it upsets you so much that others challenge your statements, then don't incriminate yourself.

[marioguy]

It's not being politically correct, it's just that your claim of "I dont have any problems with gay people" was challenged and scrutinized because of other things said in your post. The fact of the matter is, if you were truly comfortable with gay people, why would people admitting that they're gay on TV bother you? There's plenty of other things to be bothered about in regards to the media, but of all of them, gay people do? So what? Who cares? So you see a bunch of fruit cakes parading the streets with rainbows and glitter? The fact that you not only do care, and that such trivial things actually bother you, and the on top of that you suggest there's some sort double standard or inequality towards straight people "If someone said they were straight they'd get a lawsuit." highly suggests, and raises due suspicion that you really aren't as okay with gay people as you project yourself to be.

If it upsets you so much that others challenge your statements, then don't incriminate yourself.

It's sad when homophobes think that they're not homophobes, but then get called out on their homophobia.

The quote in your sig does not exist anymore.

[Double A]

People are too politically correct nowadays, and no one knows how to accept anyone else's opinions nowadays, I can tolerate gays, but that's not enough for some people, they expect me to bow to them or something. F no. I'll be tolerant, and they should be happy with that.
Don't like it? Oh well, it's my opinion, not yours.

"Get out of my face" is not tolerance. I'm almost certain you wouldn't show similar contempt towards someone who made a different statement about themselves (e.g. "I'm adopted").

You would be analogous to someone who is xenophobic (wants foreigners to piss off) but not actively racist. While the latter is a more serious kind of intolerance, the former is still intolerance.

Letting you exercise bigotry goes beyond merely "respecting your idea", it becomes "giving your ideas credibility in modern society". If you're allowed to ask gay people to piss off, what's to stop racists asking blacks to piss off and Christian extremists asking Muslims to piss off?

[Swordsman of Kairnestar]

Let me try to get this all structured here:

> polygamy
I'm actually all for that, as long as they kept it small (as in the number of people married), because records do have to be kept.

> gay pride parades
I have no issue with these, either. I think it's a beautiful expression of sexuality in a world where many are trying to sweep said sexuality under the carpet because if they can't see it, they think it'll go away. And I think Pride is still serving a purpose: it shows people that we as a culture will not bow to the pressure of the right, and that we will use the rights we haven't been denied in an effort to obtain the ones we have been denied.

> Biblical arguments
As I have always said, you need to look not just at Christianity, or Abrahamic even religion as a whole, but at all sides of religious and spiritual beliefs. Marriage is not merely a Christian tradition, nor is sex/sexuality, and should not be treated as such.

> "gay" as insult
I don't like this, but I'm not passionate about it either way. My common reaction to "you're gay" would be "yes, thank you for noticing". I have a tendency to intentionally take what people say literal to the word, especially if they're using explicit language. The three-letter f word is a smoke, the four-letter one is a beautiful sexual experience, the three-letter a one is of course, a butt. And lame is not something to poke fun at, as I am somewhat lame in that I have a horrible limp and can never walk without pain. So, a "big (f)ing pen" is a large pen that is used for sexual reasons. A "lame-(a) car" is a car that, for whatever reason, not only has a butt, but a butt that hinders its walking ability. After awhile, people tend to use expletives more correctly around me, or just plain less.

> "straight discrimination" (contains copious irony)
Oh, no, Razor, you've figured out our Master Plan. Truth is, we gay people have been reproducing with the assistance of laboratories to start to spread a gene throughout our kind, making us immune to a disease we will later covertly unleash on the unsuspecting public. It will make all breeders our slaves so we will forever rule Midgard Earth. This is all so we can summon our lords Loki and Pan to forever seal our control on the planet and all its people. But the worst is still to come, as we will do something so heinous, just thinking of it will make you unable to sleep at night. We will... make everyone eat only gourmet food for eternity! That's right, no more McDonald's or Taco Hell. It's Filet Mignon and a nice Burgundy for you! And tomorrow, an Italian Pesto dish![/sarcasm]

Obviously, nothing in that one reply should be taken seriously.


Also, Gergovia's avatar is a quite fitting response to how Razor has been to him.

[Razor Xtreme]

We can see how "tolerant" you are of other based on your last post. Oh wait. That was deleted. I wonder why..,

You're may be trying to be tolerant of gays, but you're really not. It was pretty obvious when you said that gay people coming out somehow offends you. You just want gays to disappear from your vision so you don't have to deal with them.

Really? Is that why my one of my best friends is a lesbian? Is that why I have three good friends that are all gay?
Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said gay people coming out offends me, either you read it wrong or you just didn't read it after something offended you.
It's funny how some of you people judge, call me a homophobe, etc. when you don't know anything about me. You read what you wanted to read, you saw what you wanted to see. All I said was that I hate it being in the media all the time, I don't mind gays in the media, I don't want to hear ABOUT gays in the media. Like "Old announcer reveals he's gay!" good for him, "Man comes out on national TV!" good for him, what are you doing with this? You are simply putting them in the target for bigots to bash and bash. Let's say there are two guys that work for a TV company and their getting married, I have no problem with them announcing it on TV, they would do the same for straight people getting married. What I have a problem with is turning on the TV and hearing about it all the time. I'd do the same if it had something to do with OWS, immigration reform, anti-racism parades, etc. I support all of those, but I'd be completely sick of hearing about them every second.
But apparently that isn't fair to you, you don't want me to be tolerant, you want me to basically support their cause, whether it kills you inside or not, it's not my job to do that. I believe they should be allowed to get married, but why should they get their 15 minutes of fame simply for being gay? Don't they want to be treated the same? That's exactly how I feel when a Hispanic says they're better than a white person, and I'm half Hispanic, so don't try to call me a racist, it's like "We're fighting for equality aren't we? So why do you expect a better treatment?"
I don't get it, you want me to be tolerant, I am, but now you want me to actually support the cause? How is that my job? If you choose to help them fight for their cause, good for you, god bless your heart, but don't get mad at me cause I don't choose to.
I didn't want to have to go into detail or waste 10 minutes of my life typing this, but you called me a homophobe, and that's offensive to me.

Also, George - whateveryournameis - Stop acting like a victim, you attacked me first, I have a right to defend myself, don't I?
Either don't flame, or expect to be flamed. I flamed you and I expected to be flamed, thus why I choose to ignore half of these posts.

[Ne0n-H!tch'd]

You guys thought you had this debate pegged right? You thought "Oh they BORN that way" or "Oh, Some traumatic event happened that Made em THAT way"....

Think again!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk3%7C110998

What do you think now huh?

[CSolarstorm]

Razor Xtreme, you ask why gay people should get to go on TV just because they're coming out of the closet, which in your defense, I've seen, there's the airman and the newscaster I remember in recent history - but the fact is people view 'coming out' as a courageous thing to do, and that's why the get to be featured on TV. Aside from that, why shouldn't they? Is there a reason to keep people from getting more than they deserve? If some gay people get more publicity than they should from coming out of the closet, why exactly is that bad?

And please do not take this thread or what anybody says in it personally. Unless you get physically sick whenever someone criticizes you, you don't need to flame anybody who is impolite to you. It even says that at the beginning of my thread, "Repay insensitivity with politeness."

[Ne0n-H!tch'd]

Gay is here to stay, Like, why is it important to know "WHY GAY?"
Yeah some gays are a bit obnoxious but there are str8 obnoxious people too...
I don't see what makes a "In your face" gay any different from a "In your face" str8 person..

[Grei]

Valid points, but to be honest I still don't see the harm. When people use 'gay' as an insult, it's usually for an object, or event. If the majority of people used it to actually insult homosexuals, then that is when I think it's over the line. I'm not saying people don't use it like that, I'm pretty sure when people do, they don't mean any harm to gay people.

I've heard the word "gay" spoken to other people as an insult plenty of times.

And even so, it's still wrong to describe an object as "stupid" by using the word "gay" when a person who is gay is not automatically "stupid." You're using a negative to describe a human being. That's like using "retard" to describe a race of people. It's derogatory and not progressive in the slightest.

People are too politically correct nowadays, and no one knows how to accept anyone else's opinions nowadays, I can tolerate gays, but that's not enough for some people, they expect me to bow to them or something. F no. I'll be tolerant, and they should be happy with that.
Don't like it? Oh well, it's my opinion, not yours.

I wish I could remember the quotation that would fit right here...

Frankly, I apologize if I expect better of people in general. I see no error in expecting people to do more than just "average." Tolerance is average. Anyone can tolerate something they don't like. I would never be happy with simply tolerance, unless that tolerance was temporary and the tolerant person was striving to be a better person than just a "tolerant person." Quite honestly, simply settling for tolerance and leaving it at that is taking the easy way out, and is doing nothing towards progressing anyone towards bettering themselves.

Of course, I'm not going to force you to not be lazy. I'm simply saying that you're wrong to expect others to be happy with mediocrity.

Also, I agree with Double A:

"Get out of my face" is not tolerance.

Indeed, far from it.

You guys thought you had this debate pegged right? You thought "Oh they BORN that way" or "Oh, Some traumatic event happened that Made em THAT way"....

Think again!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk3%7C110998

What do you think now huh?

First off, your post claims that those who say trauma creates homosexuality are wrong, but this article states that the trauma of a stroke made this man homosexual. :/

Second, the characteristics of a single case study are not indicative of an entire population. This is true across pretty much all fields. There are multiple different individual things that influence our minds, our personalities, etc. The proposal that a stroke turned a heterosexual man into a homosexual man is very peculiar in this case, but ultimately doesn't have to mean anything towards the general population. I've never had a stroke, yet I'm gay, so until this case proves some further connection about homosexuality, I'm not sure it really means anything.

[Valoo.]

they expect me to bow to them or something.

...What? Where on earth did you get this from? Gay people don't want to be bowed to, don't be ridiculous.

All I said was that I hate it being in the media all the time, I don't mind gays in the media, I don't want to hear ABOUT gays in the media. Like "Old announcer reveals he's gay!" good for him, "Man comes out on national TV!" good for him, what are you doing with this?

Let's say there are two guys that work for a TV company and their getting married, I have no problem with them announcing it on TV, they would do the same for straight people getting married. What I have a problem with is turning on the TV and hearing about it all the time. I'd do the same if it had something to do with OWS, immigration reform, anti-racism parades, etc. I support all of those, but I'd be completely sick of hearing about them every second.

But...it's not in the news every second. There's been no coming out stories in the news for ages here. Celebrity coming out stories are understandable. They live their lives in the public eye, they can't keep it absecret forever.

but why should they get their 15 minutes of fame simply for being gay? Don't they want to be treated the same?

Nobody gets fifteen minutes of fame for coming out. The only times coming out stories are on the news is when it's a celebrity. People come out every day, it's never televised.

[ChedWick]

You guys thought you had this debate pegged right? You thought "Oh they BORN that way" or "Oh, Some traumatic event happened that Made em THAT way"....

Think again!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk3%7C110998

What do you think now huh?

I may be reading your tone wrong but I have to say I'm a little confused about what your views are. This post comes off condescending and negative but your later one comes off as the complete opposite.

Anyway, I think that we are who we are because of how our brains work; this includes how we let our environment affect and mold us. There have been documented cases of brain trauma such as strokes drastically changing a persons personality. There are cases of tumors changing personalities in both people and animals. Our sexual preference being one factor of our personality certainly could be altered due to brain trauma but it is only one factor. It does not mean that every homosexual has brain damages. The article itself says Birch found he had no interest in Rugby anymore and found little in common with his friends and family. So he did not just become gay and have nothing else about himself change; his whole personality was altered.

[CSolarstorm]

I think Nyter's tone was just excited, because he was sharing something unique. I don't remember anybody ever offering a case where a stroke made someone gay. XD

[Ne0n-H!tch'd]

LOL U guys I said what I said because to me this story was a BIG GAME CHANGER in this who gay debate. I am not saying anything against gays I am just taunting at the fact that some people go "Nature" and some people go "Nurture"...

And then I posts the news up and then I would laugh to see everyone's face go "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?"

Don't have a cow. Like Mah dude above said... I was excited and being obnoxious because it was something unique to bring to the debate table...

I AM IN NO WAY IMPLYING THAT ONE MUST HAVE A STROKE TO BE GAY! Critical thinking next time PLEASE!

[ChedWick]

LOL U guys I said what I said because to me this story was a BIG GAME CHANGER in this who gay debate. I am not saying anything against gays I am just taunting at the fact that some people go "Nature" and some people go "Nurture"...

And then I posts the news up and then I would laugh to see everyone's face go "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?"

Don't have a cow. Like Mah dude above said... I was excited and being obnoxious because it was something unique to bring to the debate table...

I AM IN NO WAY IMPLYING THAT ONE MUST HAVE A STROKE TO BE GAY! Critical thinking next time PLEASE!

Nature vs. Nurture debates are on going; I don't think it will be resolved my our lifetime. My reaction to the article was more 'so?' rather than shock and aw. Any comments regarding a stroke being linked to homosexuality was more so directed at your question about what we thought and the article or rather the negative stigma that would likely surround the article since 'straight man + stroke=homosexual man' seemed to be the major focus; even if it was just for the sake of a curious title. Mind you critical thinking was used and displayed quite effectively.

[marioguy]

Wall of text.

I'm sorry for assuming you were a homophobe solely on your words and without knowing all of your background information also.

I understand what you mean by gays are getting treated more than equal. That's the problem I have with the feminist movement. They now just want women to be superior to men. I hate sexist phrases like. "You throw like a girl." or "Don't hit a girl." If women wanted to be equal, they would insist to pay for their own meals on dates.

[mattj]

You guys thought you had this debate pegged right? You thought "Oh they BORN that way" or "Oh, Some traumatic event happened that Made em THAT way"....

Think again!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk3%7C110998

What do you think now huh?

I think all the hot sweaty showers with ripped nude men probably had more to do with it.

possibly

@Marioguy:
you are such a homophobe so sexist
i can't believe you'd say that

[Ne0n-H!tch'd]

Nature vs. Nurture debates are on going; I don't think it will be resolved my our lifetime. My reaction to the article was more 'so?' rather than shock and aw. Any comments regarding a stroke being linked to homosexuality was more so directed at your question about what we thought and the article or rather the negative stigma that would likely surround the article since 'straight man + stroke=homosexual man' seemed to be the major focus; even if it was just for the sake of a curious title. Mind you critical thinking was used and displayed quite effectively.

Ahh now this is an answer... What I find peculiar is not only his "change" in sexuality, but in sense of style as well...

It's like his whole life changed, and sexuality is a not immune to such a blow to the head (no pun intended).

It baffles me!

[CSolarstorm]

I'm sorry for assuming you were a homophobe solely on your words and without knowing all of your background information also.

I understand what you mean by gays are getting treated more than equal. That's the problem I have with the feminist movement. They now just want women to be superior to men. I hate sexist phrases like. "You throw like a girl." or "Don't hit a girl." If women wanted to be equal, they would insist to pay for their own meals on dates.

Shouldn't throw the word homophobe around, like I said.

But what do you mean by saying the feminist movement wants women to be superior to men? More modern feminists are actually fine with going dutch on dates, and 'don't hit like a girl' and you 'you throw like a girl' are actually male phrases, not feminist ideas.

My only problem with the contemporary feminst movement is what seems like their incredibly high standards for a completely non-sexist attitude. Some people who don't understand the purpose and application of feminism misuse it to make everyone feel miseraable. Still, it's very useful to have a high standard, because like Grei said, I don't think it's wrong to expect the very best in people.