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Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #201
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    Straights being repulsed by gays is, in my opinion, the same as being repulsed by someone's nationality; something they can't help. I'm not saying straight guys should all go convert and go smooch the next dude they walk up to, but they don't need to be hating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blastoiseboy19 View Post
    Straights being repulsed by gays is, in my opinion, the same as being repulsed by someone's nationality; something they can't help. I'm not saying straight guys should all go convert and go smooch the next dude they walk up to, but they don't need to be hating.
    That's an overly simplistic way of looking at it. Perhaps you might dislike those from a certain nationality because they are taught since birth to leech of others and attack them. Gays are just perfect, they only bring roses and cupcakes to the world.

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    I've been bicurious on a few occassions, but the idea that I liked a guy I knew disturbed me. Because of my parents, homosexuality is normal to my family, and there was actually social conditioning teaching my that it was okay and natural. If it's true that homophobia - in this case I use the word to describe being unsettled and scared of being homosexual - only arises when your environment teaches you that it's wrong to be gay, then I wonder why I wasn't more comfortable with the spectrum of my feelings and tried assert my heterosexuality. Maybe I was watching too much TV and its heteronormity was counteracting the principles of my family? I don't know, I'm leaning toward some bias against homosexuality being inborn. Can we prove that culture has to tell kids that homosexuality is wrong before they feel that way? Where did that culture come from? The premise of it must have some relevance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChedWick View Post
    I'd say the battle for civil rights is a pretty important battle.
    It's not like they're being stoned to death or being treated as second class citizens. They simply have to get a civil union which holds the same legal power as a marriage, instead of a marriage. There have been bigger tragedies in the world. That being said, I have nothing against gays, I just wish they would stop trying to rub it in everyone's face.

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    There is not many bigger tragedies in the world than not getting your basic rights. And marriage is one of these rights, because civil unions do not, in fact, hold the same legal power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    It's not like they're being stoned to death or being treated as second class citizens.
    Oh no?

    They simply have to get a civil union which holds the same legal power as a marriage, instead of a marriage. There have been bigger tragedies in the world. That being said, I have nothing against gays, I just wish they would stop trying to rub it in everyone's face.
    You couldn't be further form the truth. Besides not even civil unions are offered everywhere.
    Last edited by ChedWick; 16th November 2011 at 4:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    It's not like they're being stoned to death or being treated as second class citizens. There have been bigger tragedies in the world.
    No, they aren't, and there are certainly bigger tragedies and more dire issues. But comparing one wrong to a larger wrong doesn't make the first any less wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    They simply have to get a civil union which holds the same legal power as a marriage, instead of a marriage.
    Not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    That being said, I have nothing against gays, I just wish they would stop trying to rub it in everyone's face.
    I think Razor said the same thing earlier in the thread, that he feels the same way about politics and just generally current events, that he wishes people wouldn't make such a big deal about...anything. Some people just want to be cloistered away from the bustle and conflict of the world, as if being passionate about something is uncool. If gay matters annoy you so much, just turn the channel, don't go to gay fairs, and don't sit in on gay marriages.

    And IMO, although gay pride parades might be harder to avoid, we have to ask the question why we allow Christmas parades then, when not everybody celebrates that holiday. Is it okay to let a specific group of people parade down what would be a busy street for a celebration of a specific cause? The issue is bigger than just gay pride parades in particular.
    Last edited by CSolarstorm; 16th November 2011 at 5:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    I've been bicurious on a few occassions, but the idea that I liked a guy I knew disturbed me. Because of my parents, homosexuality is normal to my family, and there was actually social conditioning teaching my that it was okay and natural. If it's true that homophobia - in this case I use the word to describe being unsettled and scared of being homosexual - only arises when your environment teaches you that it's wrong to be gay, then I wonder why I wasn't more comfortable with the spectrum of my feelings and tried assert my heterosexuality. Maybe I was watching too much TV and its heteronormity was counteracting the principles of my family? I don't know, I'm leaning toward some bias against homosexuality being inborn. Can we prove that culture has to tell kids that homosexuality is wrong before they feel that way? Where did that culture come from? The premise of it must have some relevance.
    I would guess it was just because it was unusual to you. When you're comfortable being straight, having feelings for the same sex can throw you, regardless of your views on gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    or being treated as second class citizens.
    ?
    So having less rights is not being treated as second class?

    They simply have to get a civil union which holds the same legal power as a marriage
    No. Civil partnership does not by any means have the same legal powers of a marriage. There are many things that marriage provides. Plus, it's about being treated equally. Not allowing a certain group of people one right is not treating them equally, even if they "make up for it" by allowing civil unions. It's still discrimination.

    I just wish they would stop trying to rub it in everyone's face.
    Saying stuff like this really aggravates me. I will admit some pride parades go over the top, but nobody is trying to rub it in your face. Looking for equality and rights is not rubbing it in your face. Just say you were being denied marriage for reasons beyond control, and tried to look for rights. That wouldn't be rubbing it into people's faces, would it?

    The reason there's a lot of media attention is because gay marriage is illegal in many places. If it was made legal, they wouldn't be "rubbing it in your face".

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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    I've been bicurious on a few occassions, but the idea that I liked a guy I knew disturbed me. Because of my parents, homosexuality is normal to my family, and there was actually social conditioning teaching my that it was okay and natural. If it's true that homophobia - in this case I use the word to describe being unsettled and scared of being homosexual - only arises when your environment teaches you that it's wrong to be gay, then I wonder why I wasn't more comfortable with the spectrum of my feelings and tried assert my heterosexuality. Maybe I was watching too much TV and its heteronormity was counteracting the principles of my family? I don't know, I'm leaning toward some bias against homosexuality being inborn. Can we prove that culture has to tell kids that homosexuality is wrong before they feel that way? Where did that culture come from? The premise of it must have some relevance.
    Interesting.. this might be a shot in the dark, but itsn't it because of your parents (If I remember corectly are lesbians, if not just ignore my post :P), that people would be able to blame them, and use it as an example of why gay people shouldn't have children.

    So in short, the unsettling feeling/fear: You might be bicurious, your parents are gay, anti-gayright activists use it as an example, they blame your parents, you feel like you have hurted them somehow. That is what I think what might be a reason, don't blame me if I am wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangeet View Post
    There is not many bigger tragedies in the world than not getting your basic rights. And marriage is one of these rights, because civil unions do not, in fact, hold the same legal power.
    "OH NO I CANT GET MARRIED YET!"

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    Again, there are bigger tragedies in the world.

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    ^ Farcical logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    I think Razor said the same thing earlier in the thread, that he feels the same way about politics and just generally current events, that he wishes people wouldn't make such a big deal about...anything. Some people just want to be cloistered away from the bustle and conflict of the world, as if being passionate about something is uncool. If gay matters annoy you so much, just turn the channel, don't go to gay fairs, and don't sit in on gay marriages.

    And IMO, although gay pride parades might be harder to avoid, we have to ask the question why we allow Christmas parades then, when not everybody celebrates that holiday. Is it okay to let a specific group of people parade down what would be a busy street for a celebration of a specific cause? The issue is bigger than just gay pride parades in particular.
    People in Christmas parades aren't shoving their sexuality in our face. We don't care what you do in the bed room, just leave me out of it. What's next, foot fetish pride parades?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    Interesting.. this might be a shot in the dark, but itsn't it because of your parents (If I remember corectly are lesbians, if not just ignore my post :P), that people would be able to blame them, and use it as an example of why gay people shouldn't have children.

    So in short, the unsettling feeling/fear: You might be bicurious, your parents are gay, anti-gayright activists use it as an example, they blame your parents, you feel like you have hurted them somehow. That is what I think what might be a reason, don't blame me if I am wrong.
    I think there's some truth in this. I do sort of have an underlying pressure in me to show people (ugh, I'm a case study) that a gay couple can raise an upstanding, admirable straight young man. So I correct myself, I actually did have a sense that society considered heterosexuality superior, or the first-class type of love, and subconsciously as a teenager, I thought by giving my parents a heterosexual son, somehow that validates their worth as a family, makes them 'less gay' and thus elevates their class. Because conformity is power! *sarcasm*

    It's probably more likely what SapphireSceptile said, that I'm more comfortable being straight. But the first theory was much more interesting. It's fun looking for skeletons in the closet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    People in Christmas parades aren't shoving their sexuality in our face. We don't care what you do in the bed room, just leave me out of it. What's next, foot fetish pride parades?
    Oh no, they aren't. Just their all-powerful savior and the only correct religion in existance that can prevent your soul from eternal damnation. So let me get this straight - nobody feels invaded when somebody parades about something as all encompassing as a certain religion, but sexuality, which every human on earth does and thinks about (sorry celibates monks, nuns and aesexuals, forgot about you) is more invasive?
    Last edited by CSolarstorm; 16th November 2011 at 6:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    People in Christmas parades aren't shoving their sexuality in our face. We don't care what you do in the bed room, just leave me out of it. What's next, foot fetish pride parades?
    Unless I'm mistaken somehow, Christmas is a christian holiday.

    So technically, they're, as you so politley put it, shoving their beliefs in our face.
    Maybe they aren't praying or performing other signs of worship on the floats, but the people on gay pride floats aren't getting it on up there either. It's a statement about who they are, not what they do as a result of it.

    Not really that different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    "OH NO I CANT GET MARRIED YET!"
    No, it's "OH NO I'M BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST".

    The fact that we're being denied equal rights is the problem. I'm sure if you were being discriminated against by the state and people you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

    Again, there are bigger tragedies in the world.
    You're whole logic is that there are bigger tragedies, so no gay marriage. That doesn't make any sense.

    Yes, there are bigger tragedies, but that doesn't mean we should ignore this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    People in Christmas parades aren't shoving their sexuality in our face.
    Yes, but but your definitions they're shoving their religion in our face.

    We don't care what you do in the bed room, just leave me out of it.
    You really don't understand this do you.

    The entire point of pride parades is to raise awareness and (hopefully) get equal rights for homosexual couples in places where it's illiegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Sapphire Sceptile~ View Post
    No, it's "OH NO I'M BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST".

    The fact that we're being denied equal rights is the problem. I'm sure if you were being discriminated against by the state and people you wouldn't be saying the same thing.
    That's fine if they support gay rights and they want to change the government to allow gay marriage, but that's it. They can't change society, do they want the government to imprison all of the Christian/Islamic fundamentalists that dislike gay people? I don't like the religious fundamentalists anymore than you do, but I respect their right to be idiots and to speak their mind. "People discriminating against me" has absolutely nothing to do with the government and it shouldn't, so really the only legitimate protestable concern they have is that they can't get married/adopt.


    Yes, but but your definitions they're shoving their religion in our face.
    Christmas stopped being religious centuries ago. It's a cultural event now, one that people of all religions and even atheists partake in. Just like Halloween and Easter.

    The entire point of pride parades is to raise awareness and (hopefully) get equal rights for homosexual couples in places where it's illiegal.
    It's not really about raising awareness though, it's more about having a party and shoving the "look I'm gay! I'm gay! I'm gay!!!" in peoples faces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    Christmas stopped being religious centuries ago. It's a cultural event now, one that people of all religions and even atheists partake in. Just like Halloween and Easter.
    You could have avoided this whole thing by saying "Thanksgiving parade" instead of "Christmas parade." It's true Christmas and Easter has been secularized over the years. It's hard to find a Christmas special on tv that is about Jesus instead of Santa Claus. Johnny Bravo mentioned baby Jesus, but that's the only I can think of. However, that still doesn't change the fact they are both still Christian holidays and that the religious context is very much still there. Halloween, not so much. Isn't that supposed to be about demon worshiping? Why is that a candy holiday now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    It's not really about raising awareness though, it's more about having a party and shoving the "look I'm gay! I'm gay! I'm gay!!!" in peoples faces.
    I agree that the people doing the parades aren't actually helping their cause, they're just making people think that gays are all flamboyant cross-dressers.
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    > Christmas stopped being religious centuries ago. It's a cultural event now, one that people of all religions and even atheists partake in. Just like Halloween and Easter.

    Oh, hi, there. I was just putting away my Samhain tools and preparing for Yule.

    Christmas and Halloween have Pagan origins, in a huge way, coming from Yule and Samhain, respectively. I do not celebrate Halloween, Christmas, or Easter. Many Pagans in general do not celebrate them. Quite a few tend to celebrate the real holidays for the time of the year. And I dunnot think I have ever met a Iehova's Witness, Mormon, or Muslim who celebrates Easter or Christmas, and I have met a single Muslim who celebrated Halloween.

    Although, playing Devil's Advocate, I must ask. People are saying that marriage should not be defines by Christianity, even though Christianity is a large portion that do it religiously. And yet the same people will say Christmas is all about Christianity. What defense do you have to declare that one can now be considered to be secular in today's society, and the other not? Neither completely originate from Christianity, both are over-commercialized in modern society, so I want to know the difference that some here are adamant exists.


    > It's not really about raising awareness though, it's more about having a party and shoving the "look I'm gay! I'm gay! I'm gay!!!" in peoples faces.

    If we don't make people aware of our presence, we get shoved into the rear of their visions. What is wrong with showing the people as a whole just how many gay people there are, that we're not just a few people, than an entire parade in our support. I'm not saying I altogether like what Pride Parades have become, but the concept and at least a fair amount of the application, are a good thing.

    Also, @marioguy:
    Halloween was supposed to be a time where the veil between this realm and the realm of spirits was weakened significantly. People would present treats to satiate spirits, hide behind masks to fool the spirits, so they would not devour people, and pay respects to their ancestors. All Hallow's Eve was more or less split into Halloween and Dia De Los Muertos, with significant ties to each. I actually observe the latter, although not entirely celebrating it. I'm grossly oversimplifying it, of course.
    Last edited by SwiftSoul; 16th November 2011 at 8:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    That's fine if they support gay rights and they want to change the government to allow gay marriage, but that's it. They can't change society, do they want the government to imprison all of the Christian/Islamic fundamentalists that dislike gay people? I don't like the religious fundamentalists anymore than you do, but I respect their right to be idiots and to speak their mind. "People discriminating against me" has absolutely nothing to do with the government and it shouldn't, so really the only legitimate protestable concern they have is that they can't get married/adopt.
    And that is the only concern we protest about, for government to legalize gay marriage and adoption. I don't know of a protest or even a comment on here suggesting that we imprison anyone for disliking gay people. So I don't quite understand why you're concerned about our opinions in particular.

    We can in fact change society over time, not through force but influence. Force usually damages the cause.

    I can understand why you're concerned that people in power will make it a punishable offense to say homosexuality is wrong, ludicrously equating it to verbal bullying. That is censorship of free speech and I'm worried about it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    Christmas stopped being religious centuries ago. It's a cultural event now, one that people of all religions and even atheists partake in. Just like Halloween and Easter.
    Sort of a good point, but we encounter several relevant groups that are offended by Christmas parades; you know the whole 'War on Christmas' debacle. I maintain that it is a valid comparison. We've got Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, outspoken athiests, and many other vocal groups against public Christmas celebrations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    It's not really about raising awareness though, it's more about having a party and shoving the "look I'm gay! I'm gay! I'm gay!!!" in peoples faces.
    Again, a look at some of my prior posts shows that I agree that gay pride protests hurt gay rights because they make it all about attention seeking and sex. However, you still have the ability to look away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    People in Christmas parades aren't shoving their sexuality in our face. We don't care what you do in the bed room, just leave me out of it. What's next, foot fetish pride parades?
    Well depending on the type of parade (because lets face it, Christmas has been warped) you're throwing your religion in our face. That's even worse imo.


    so really the only legitimate protestable concern they have is that they can't get married/adopt.
    Which are two very valid concerns. But I disagree on changing society. Blacks are now accepted as people and individuals (mostly). With out the push for equal rights and acceptance, such would likely not be the case today. Raising awareness, and educating people can change society. There are still plenty of negative and false assumptions about homosexuality that plague the minds of individuals. Correcting those assumptions certainly can change a persons view.



    It's not really about raising awareness though, it's more about having a party and shoving the "look I'm gay! I'm gay! I'm gay!!!" in peoples faces.
    You're absolutely correct /sarcasm
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphapupQuicksilver View Post
    > Christmas stopped being religious centuries ago. It's a cultural event now, one that people of all religions and even atheists partake in. Just like Halloween and Easter.

    Oh, hi, there. I was just putting away my Samhain tools and preparing for Yule.

    Christmas and Halloween have Pagan origins, in a huge way, coming from Yule and Samhain, respectively. I do not celebrate Halloween, Christmas, or Easter. Many Pagans in general do not celebrate them. Quite a few tend to celebrate the real holidays for the time of the year. And I dunnot think I have ever met a Iehova's Witness, Mormon, or Muslim who celebrates Easter or Christmas, and I have met a single Muslim who celebrated Halloween.

    Although, playing Devil's Advocate, I must ask. People are saying that marriage should not be defines by Christianity, even though Christianity is a large portion that do it religiously. And yet the same people will say Christmas is all about Christianity. What defense do you have to declare that one can now be considered to be secular in today's society, and the other not? Neither completely originate from Christianity, both are over-commercialized in modern society, so I want to know the difference that some here are adamant exists.


    > It's not really about raising awareness though, it's more about having a party and shoving the "look I'm gay! I'm gay! I'm gay!!!" in peoples faces.

    If we don't make people aware of our presence, we get shoved into the rear of their visions. What is wrong with showing the people as a whole just how many gay people there are, that we're not just a few people, than an entire parade in our support. I'm not saying I altogether like what Pride Parades have become, but the concept and at least a fair amount of the application, are a good thing.

    Also, @marioguy:
    Halloween was supposed to be a time where the veil between this realm and the realm of spirits was weakened significantly. People would present treats to satiate spirits, hide behind masks to fool the spirits, so they would not devour people, and pay respects to their ancestors. All Hallow's Eve was more or less split into Halloween and Dia De Los Muertos, with significant ties to each. I actually observe the latter, although not entirely celebrating it. I'm grossly oversimplifying it, of course.
    Ok this is a little off topic but can you pls make the color of your text a little darker?? It is really hard to read.

    Also I got to agree on the gay pride parades, they are way too over the top lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphapupQuicksilver View Post
    If we don't make people aware of our presence, we get shoved into the rear of their visions. What is wrong with showing the people as a whole just how many gay people there are, that we're not just a few people, than an entire parade in our support. I'm not saying I altogether like what Pride Parades have become, but the concept and at least a fair amount of the application, are a good thing
    But everyone already is and pretty much always has been aware of the existence of homosexuals. Running around wearing nothing but a thong with a rainbow colored flag shoved up your buttocks will not make Christian fundamentalists change their mind about you, though it may dissuade LGBT supporters and neutral people from supporting you. Nobody wants to see that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ununoctium View Post
    But everyone already is and pretty much always has been aware of the existence of homosexuals. Running around wearing nothing but a thong with a rainbow colored flag shoved up your buttocks will not make Christian fundamentalists change their mind about you, though it may dissuade LGBT supporters and neutral people from supporting you. Nobody wants to see that.
    We know. You've only said it like five times and almost all of us agree.

    Except some of us are smart enough to not discard the message because the messengers don't know how to deliver it. If people don't want to support gay rights because they're too bothered by how the parades look, they need a course in logic, not us to bend over backward to please them - you support it because it's right, not because it convinced you with a parade.
    Last edited by CSolarstorm; 16th November 2011 at 11:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Ok this is a little off topic but can you pls make the color of your text a little darker?? It is really hard to read.

    Also I got to agree on the gay pride parades, they are way too over the top lol.
    I tried to get him to change the color, he doesn't want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    We know. You've only said it like five times and almost all of us agree.

    Except some of us are smart enough to not discard the message because the messengers don't know how to deliver it. If people don't want to support gay rights because they're too bothered by how the parades look, they need a course in logic, not us to bend over backward to please them - you support it because it's right, not because it convinced you with a parade.
    So you agree that the parades serve no purpose other than to alienate gays from the public?
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

  25. #225
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    Gay pride parades rock. You get to see hot shirtless men prance around in the streets. What's not to love?

    All these people that hate on pride parades needs to get a life. So you don't want to see a fairy get up on a float and wave his junk around? AWESOME. Then...don't attend one! I don't see people *****ing about the moral repugnance of mardi gra. Oh wait, that's right. That's because tits are involved. And in a heterosexist society tits> dick. Sooooo whatever I guess. Keep on hat'n on pride parades I guess. Whhhhatever floats your boat.

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