Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

[Skydra]

I wouldn't call it trolling. More like bringing up thoughts from a different perspective.

But it would be nice if they could indicate that they are trying to see matters through the eyes of others, rather than leading us to think it is their own viewpoint.

[BigLutz]

But it would be nice if they could indicate that they are trying to see matters through the eyes of others, rather than leading us to think it is their own viewpoint.

If people have followed me, or I believe even this thread, they would know my true point of view on gay marriage, I believe I have stated it multiple times throughout the years. More so when did I ever say it was "My view", the entire debate began with me just merely poking holes in theories.

[BJPalmer85]

But it would be nice if they could indicate that they are trying to see matters through the eyes of others, rather than leading us to think it is their own viewpoint.

To me that is the point of playing the devil's advocate. If you announce it, people will know that you honestly dont feel that way, but by keeping is quite you tend to get people to react naturally to what you are saying.

B

[Eterna]

To me that is the point of playing the devil's advocate. If you announce it, people will know that you honestly dont feel that way, but by keeping is quite you tend to get people to react naturally to what you are saying.

B

That is almost the literal definition of trolling.

[BJPalmer85]

yup! which devil's advocate is just a fancy name for trolling

B

[BigLutz]

That is almost the literal definition of trolling.

yup! which devil's advocate is just a fancy name for trolling

B

I would disagree with that, trolling is being offensive just to get a angry reaction out of people. Some of the things thrown at me when I was arguing some views would be considered trolling.

On the other hand being a Devil's Advocate is to provide a reasonable voice of dissent in what is in many ways a echo chamber. I do not honestly believe any of the things I was saying would get a angry reaction ( Although some people misinterpreted my arguments in a extreme way ). I was merely providing a different voice to ideas provided and poking holes in certain problems that crept up in people's ideas.

[1rkhachatryan]

I hate it when people use the bible to condemn gay people. Seriously most of the people who I've heard say this have

A. Never read the bible
B. Go to church like once a year

Seriously u are not religious if this applies to you -_-.

[Skydra]

If people have followed me, or I believe even this thread, they would know my true point of view on gay marriage, I believe I have stated it multiple times throughout the years. More so when did I ever say it was "My view", the entire debate began with me just merely poking holes in theories.

I was actually referring to the below user, not you, because in fact I did not really see your posts in which you were playing devil's advocate.

To me that is the point of playing the devil's advocate. If you announce it, people will know that you honestly dont feel that way, but by keeping is quite you tend to get people to react naturally to what you are saying.

B

But just sporadically debating for a point you don't believe in doesn't necessarily help the debate. I'd prefer to debate a point with somebody who actually believes what they are saying.

[ansem the wise]

I hate it when people use the bible to condemn gay people. Seriously most of the people who I've heard say this have

A. Never read the bible
B. Go to church like once a year

Seriously u are not religious if this applies to you -_-.

and what would u say to the people who dont do those things?
cuz I:
1) go twice a week
2) have read it cover to cover multiple times.

plus if they dont then they probably have some alterior motive to disagree.

[BJPalmer85]

I would disagree with that, trolling is being offensive just to get a angry reaction out of people. Some of the things thrown at me when I was arguing some views would be considered trolling.

On the other hand being a Devil's Advocate is to provide a reasonable voice of dissent in what is in many ways a echo chamber. I do not honestly believe any of the things I was saying would get a angry reaction ( Although some people misinterpreted my arguments in a extreme way ). I was merely providing a different voice to ideas provided and poking holes in certain problems that crept up in people's ideas.

I agree with what you said here. Only thing is that on the interwebs it is impossible to read any other aspect of communication outside of the words that are typed, so distinguishing between a troll and someone who is truly playing the devil's advocate is hard if not impossible.

I should have made that clear in what I said.

As for me personally, I will not in any way try to troll people on a topic like this. trolling, while funny at times, contributes nothing to this topic and only helps increase frustration

I was actually referring to the below user, not you, because in fact I did not really see your posts in which you were playing devil's advocate.


But just sporadically debating for a point you don't believe in doesn't necessarily help the debate. I'd prefer to debate a point with somebody who actually believes what they are saying.

If you are saying I am doing this I apologize, i thought I made my view perfectly clear and then was just trying to debate opposing sides to other peoples arguments

and what would u say to the people who dont do those things?
cuz I:
1) go twice a week
2) have read it cover to cover multiple times.

plus if they dont then they probably have some alterior motive to disagree.

I was under the impression that your stance on the topic wasnt religiously motivated, if it is that is fine because I am not judging, simply asking for clarification.

B

[ansem the wise]

I agree with what you said here. Only thing is that on the interwebs it is impossible to read any other aspect of communication outside of the words that are typed, so distinguishing between a troll and someone who is truly playing the devil's advocate is hard if not impossible.

I should have made that clear in what I said.

As for me personally, I will not in any way try to troll people on a topic like this. trolling, while funny at times, contributes nothing to this topic and only helps increase frustration



If you are saying I am doing this I apologize, i thought I made my view perfectly clear and then was just trying to debate opposing sides to other peoples arguments




I was under the impression that your stance on the topic wasnt religiously motivated, if it is that is fine because I am not judging, simply asking for clarification.

B

yes it is.
but it is note purely "cuz the bible says so" cuz that is stupid.
"an answer without a reason is meaningless" ~sherlock holmes

[BJPalmer85]

yes it is.
but it is note purely "cuz the bible says so" cuz that is stupid.
"an answer without a reason is meaningless" ~sherlock holmes

fair enough. I have no hate for people that use the bible or religion as the background of their views but i do disagree because to me for you to use religion in your argument, the person that you are arguing with has to be of the same religion or else it holds no weight. i say this because people will argue that gay people are trying to shove their view into other peoples face, in all honesty the same can be said about using religion in your argument, that you are shoving your religion in other peoples faces.

I am not saying that about you, that is just my person opinion

B

[1rkhachatryan]

and what would u say to the people who dont do those things?
cuz I:
1) go twice a week
2) have read it cover to cover multiple times.

plus if they dont then they probably have some alterior motive to disagree.

I would one ask you how me being gay or being able to get married affects you in any way shape or form and go from there.

[ansem the wise]

I would one ask you how me being gay or being able to get married affects you in any way shape or form and go from there.

fair enough. I have no hate for people that use the bible or religion as the background of their views but i do disagree because to me for you to use religion in your argument, the person that you are arguing with has to be of the same religion or else it holds no weight. i say this because people will argue that gay people are trying to shove their view into other peoples face, in all honesty the same can be said about using religion in your argument, that you are shoving your religion in other peoples faces.

I am not saying that about you, that is just my person opinion

B

i appreciate that...i think.
let me ask u this though. if the god i believe in exists, and the fact that i know that he will cast judgement. where would i be if i didnt warn of the impending destruction? it is up to u to heed it or not, but even in the eyes of the law, if i know that people are in danger and i didnt warn them then i would be at fault correct?

[BJPalmer85]

i appreciate that...i think.
let me ask u this though. if the god i believe in exists, and the fact that i know that he will cast judgement. where would i be if i didnt warn of the impending destruction? it is up to u to heed it or not, but even in the eyes of the law, if i know that people are in danger and i didnt warn them then i would be at fault correct?

that is the word to consider. Believe, belief or faith. It all comes down to what you consider to be true. You may believe that, which is fine, but the person you are talking to may not so you have to take into consideration that they may not believe the same thing.

You may believe that what they are doing is wrong and they may think other wise. Is it your right to tell them this? Sure it is, but it is also there right to tell you to **** off if they dont like what you are saying

B

[Amiちゃん]

I would one ask you how me being gay or being able to get married affects you in any way shape or form and go from there.

It doesn't....

[ansem the wise]

that is the word to consider. Believe, belief or faith. It all comes down to what you consider to be true. You may believe that, which is fine, but the person you are talking to may not so you have to take into consideration that they may not believe the same thing.

You may believe that what they are doing is wrong and they may think other wise. Is it your right to tell them this? Sure it is, but it is also there right to tell you to **** off if they dont like what you are saying

B

it is their right and i have dealt with much worse then that. (being threatened at gunpoint, and i am not kidding about that)
but i have one last question.
what happens if i'm right?

[7 tyranitars]

it is their right and i have dealt with much worse then that. (being threatened at gunpoint, and i am not kidding about that)
but i have one last question.
what happens if i'm right?

That depends on your religion.

[Evil Quagsire]

You are wrong. He can use religion all day to argue his point, because it is just that, his point. Religion influences his thoughts and beliefs so that is what he uses. Im guessing, solely off what you said, that you have no religious background, which is fine, but to tell someone that their arguments are invalid simply because they have some sort of faith in a higher power makes you a bigot. BTW i am in no way religious either.


B

This is kind of old now, but it's something I feel a need to respond to. Why he can't use religion is because religion governs religious institutions and ceremonies, so if he wanted to say it was against god's law to have two men marry in a church, sure, that's his prerogative. But I don't think he should use his religion to dictate the laws of secular government. I'm not saying his religion is ******** or anything, I respect the right of anyone to believe what they want, and I understand his faith informs his morality. However, his faith is irrelevant to the question of whether a civil marriage between two men or two women should be allowed or not. I guess this gets to the idea of the separation of church and state, and I'd like to know for sure his stance on that. I mean, I suspect I know where he stands, but I don't want to be a jerk and assume things that aren't true. If you think, though, like I do, that separation of church and state is vital to our democracy, and supported by the Constitution, then no religion has any business dictating what the government does.

[1rkhachatryan]

i appreciate that...i think.
let me ask u this though. if the god i believe in exists, and the fact that i know that he will cast judgement. where would i be if i didnt warn of the impending destruction? it is up to u to heed it or not, but even in the eyes of the law, if i know that people are in danger and i didnt warn them then i would be at fault correct?

Oh I'm christian and I do believe in god, but I'm also gay and choose to believe in the part of the bible that quite clearly preaches love for all people and that tells us that we shouldn't judge others and that only god has that right. I don't believe that god hates me for loving who I was born to love.

[BJPalmer85]

it is their right and i have dealt with much worse then that. (being threatened at gunpoint, and i am not kidding about that)
but i have one last question.
what happens if i'm right?

If you are right than i guess we are all ****ed

but if you are wrong....

This is kind of old now, but it's something I feel a need to respond to. Why he can't use religion is because religion governs religious institutions and ceremonies, so if he wanted to say it was against god's law to have two men marry in a church, sure, that's his prerogative. But I don't think he should use his religion to dictate the laws of secular government. I'm not saying his religion is ******** or anything, I respect the right of anyone to believe what they want, and I understand his faith informs his morality. However, his faith is irrelevant to the question of whether a civil marriage between two men or two women should be allowed or not. I guess this gets to the idea of the separation of church and state, and I'd like to know for sure his stance on that. I mean, I suspect I know where he stands, but I don't want to be a jerk and assume things that aren't true. If you think, though, like I do, that separation of church and state is vital to our democracy, and supported by the Constitution, then no religion has any business dictating what the government does.

You are right and I agree. Separation of church and state is vital and one of the main things our country is supported by. I also agree that it has no bearing in the argument about civil unions.

B

[Eterna]

it is their right and i have dealt with much worse then that. (being threatened at gunpoint, and i am not kidding about that)
but i have one last question.
what happens if i'm right?

Then everyone on this earth will burn in hell. Nobody on this planet is free from sin.

But even if you are right, it isn't right to thrust your religion upon others. This guy says it best, albeit a little bit harshly. http://youtu.be/DKifAdn8HCQ#t=5m50s

[ansem the wise]

That depends on your religion.

i am a christian.
i would say the exact title but i think that u guys would hound on me.

Oh I'm christian and I do believe in god, but I'm also gay and choose to believe in the part of the bible that quite clearly preaches love for all people and that tells us that we shouldn't judge others and that only god has that right. I don't believe that god hates me for loving who I was born to love.

so do i. it also says "respect all people" and that is what i try to do.
and u are correct only god judges and i trust that he will do that in his due time.
also if u have read the bible you should know that it says that u can change ur sexuality. and its true, i have.

If you are right than i guess we are all ****ed

but if you are wrong....



You are right and I agree. Separation of church and state is vital and one of the main things our country is supported by. I also agree that it has no bearing in the argument about civil unions.

B

i know you left that second statement hanging for a reason but i would like u to finish it.
if i am wrong...then what.

Then everyone on this earth will burn in hell. Nobody on this planet is free from sin.

But even if you are right, it isn't right to thrust your religion upon others. This guy says it best, albeit a little bit harshly. http://youtu.be/DKifAdn8HCQ#t=5m50s

i dont expect everyone to believe me nor do i fore them to.
and actually read the bible, people dont "burn in hell", contrary to popular belief

Hell doesn't exist. At least in the way that u think.

[Eterna]

also if u have read the bible you should know that it says that u can change ur sexuality. and its true,

Not by willpower, and if you did then you never were to begin with.

Bi curious isn't gay, it's a hormonel urge commonly experienced by quite a few teens.

[ansem the wise]

Not by willpower, and if you did then you never were to begin with.

1) what other ways could there be if not willpower?
2) I read a study that said that a large (don't remember the exact number) percentage of gays had their first homosexual attractions during puberty. So u aren't born gay.