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Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #2676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    MP's have salaries, they don't work for free. Drafting any bill costs money, polling costs money (and governments do carry out extensive polling). The money is as much symbolic as anything else. There are actual worthwhile things that Parliament could be pushing through. It just baffles me that people care so much about changing their status from being a civil partner to being married. It's just so insignificant.

    In the past fifty years, homosexuality has gone from being derided and a criminal offence to gaining relative mainstream acceptance. Gays can now have their relationships acknowledged by the state (without the need for marriage), they occupy significant positions in politics, television and the media. The steps made have been so gargantuan that marriage seems almost irrelevant. I'm all for it, just don't see why time and money should be spent on pushing this through when there are so many more important issues in the country. This isn't a massive win for civil rights, it's an insignificant footmark, not to mention (in this instance, and, unsurprisingly, in the Obama instance) little more than a political plaything.
    And not to mention the fact that people in general are disregarding marrage in general anyways. Gays, will still live together and do whatever even if they cant get married, same is true with straights, but they have the option.
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  2. #2677
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    I think people who want to get married but can't would disagree with you.
    They're welcome to, doesn't make their cause any less insignificant.

    Thing is if they get this over with as soon as possible they can go on with "more important" stuff.
    Or they could have just gotten on with the important stuff.

  3. #2678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    MP's have salaries, they don't work for free. Drafting any bill costs money, polling costs money (and governments do carry out extensive polling). The money is as much symbolic as anything else. There are actual worthwhile things that Parliament could be pushing through. It just baffles me that people care so much about changing their status from being a civil partner to being married. It's just so insignificant.
    I agree with this to an extent. The notion of marriage may be a negligible step up from a civil partnership but it's still a step closer to gays being treated equally with the rest of the population. Frankly, I don't care all that much that I have the option to marry rather than just get a civil partnership, but if it means that I'm one step closer to being allowed the same access to public services such as marriage like everyone else in this democracy, then it's worth at least something, right?

    On the other hand, I do feel that there are some more pressing issues the government could be focusing on instead of gay marriage. Homophobia is still ever-present in the UK and if the Tories are really aiming to eradicate it from this country (which I somewhat doubt) then this isn't really the most efficient way of going about it. If we're not talking homosexuality then there are still a huge number of issues I think the government should be resolving at this present time. But oh well. I remain pessimistic.
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  4. #2679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic View Post
    :/ Guys, unless I'm seriously missing something, a guy wanting to change his last name to his wife's has nothing to do with homosexuality and politics, so either make a new thread or take it to the tangent thread.

    Also, please post links to news articles when referring to events so as to provide a little more background information. Thanks.

    ~Psychic
    It actually has some validity towards this topic as it can relate to gay men wanting to change their last names or gay women wanting to change their last name.

    As requested here is a link to the article

    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    No yet, it still needs to pass the house of the lords. (Even if that doesn't pass they will probably use the parliament act)

    If everything goes well samesex marriage will be legal in the UK in 2014.
    WOW! I am surprised it is not legal. To me the UK has always been ahead of the curve. Good for our friends across the pond.

    I wish my state would make it legal...wont happen anytime soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    They're welcome to, doesn't make their cause any less insignificant.



    Or they could have just gotten on with the important stuff.
    That won't work, because there are always going to be more important stuff, because not everyone experiences an issue equally important. It is better to just deal with rather then keep it dragging on forever. A government does more then just controll the money, it is involved into social issues aswell.
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    I'll just say this, Republicans, conservatives in general, basically don't want laws and the gov't to intervene in their lives, unless it is something they believe is "wrong", then they gladly step aside and let the gov't do it's job.

    Not saying there aren't some Dems, who oppose gay marriage and they're aren't some Reps who support it, but the majority are the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote_Dynamo View Post
    I'll just say this, Republicans, conservatives in general, basically don't want laws and the gov't to intervene in their lives, unless it is something they believe is "wrong", then they gladly step aside and let the gov't do it's job.

    Not saying there aren't some Dems, who oppose gay marriage and they're aren't some Reps who support it, but the majority are the opposite.
    The great irony is that Republicans, being the party of small government, shouldn't be in favor of a government restriction on who can get married. At least, that's what I understand about what "smaller government" actually entails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    I'm glad that in a time of such a deep and wide-ranging economic crisis, we have spent parliamentary time and money on an almost non-entity of an issue to satisfy one man's ego.

    Proud to be British.

    A non-facetious question for gay people in the U.K out there. Does it bother you at all that a major reason (by no means the sole reason, but a major one) for this bill being introduced is that the Prime Minister is simply trying to enforce the dominance of his side of the party over the other? It's as much about him as the rights of gay people.
    Implying that they can't work on two issues at once. Surely they spent the last few years only dealing with Gay marriage whilst letting the economy rot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogiston View Post
    The great irony is that Republicans, being the party of small government, shouldn't be in favor of a government restriction on who can get married. At least, that's what I understand about what "smaller government" actually entails.
    If you look at the fact that legalizing gay marriage would help the economy...it makes even less sense that most Republicans are against it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogiston View Post
    The great irony is that Republicans, being the party of small government, shouldn't be in favor of a government restriction on who can get married. At least, that's what I understand about what "smaller government" actually entails.
    You are confusing Social Conservatives with Libertarians, Social Conservatives are basically Liberal in how they wish to see the National Government do things to implement their view. Libertarians are open to the local government's deciding such things if not the people, and having more of a patchwork set of laws when it comes to marriages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJPalmer85 View Post
    If you look at the fact that legalizing gay marriage would help the economy...it makes even less sense that most Republicans are against it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    You are confusing Social Conservatives with Libertarians, Social Conservatives are basically Liberal in how they wish to see the National Government do things to implement their view. Libertarians are open to the local government's deciding such things if not the people, and having more of a patchwork set of laws when it comes to marriages.
    That is true, however social conservatives do controll most of the party.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    That won't work, because there are always going to be more important stuff, because not everyone experiences an issue equally important. It is better to just deal with rather then keep it dragging on forever. A government does more then just controll the money, it is involved into social issues aswell.
    I'll happily see Gay Marriage on the agenda when we're not facing a triple-dip recession.

    A government's involvement in social issues is generally a bad thing. This is one (rare) case where it isn't (as I say, I'm pro gay marriage, but don't see it as having any significance).

    Quote Originally Posted by Eterna View Post
    Implying that they can't work on two issues at once. Surely they spent the last few years only dealing with Gay marriage whilst letting the economy rot.
    Any time spent on the non-issue of gay marriage in this parliament is a waste of time.

  14. #2689

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    You are confusing Social Conservatives with Libertarians, Social Conservatives are basically Liberal in how they wish to see the National Government do things to implement their view. Libertarians are open to the local government's deciding such things if not the people, and having more of a patchwork set of laws when it comes to marriages.
    Fair point, but I don't think it's right to say "liberal" to refer to "uses laws to put its ideas into motion," as that's (obviously) not a strictly liberal idea. That, and "libertarian" and "liberal" have the same linguistic roots (liber -- Latin, "freedom"). I don't really think there's a good word for it.

    And "patchwork" is putting it lightly. Strictly speaking, I think libertarians would eventually push for no government regulation -- which is why I don't dislike all their ideas, but that's another issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    Any time spent on the non-issue of gay marriage in this parliament is a waste of time.
    And, as I'm to understand, it ended, er, not so great anyway, in terms of progress made in that department. Confirm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    I'll happily see Gay Marriage on the agenda when we're not facing a triple-dip recession.

    A government's involvement in social issues is generally a bad thing. This is one (rare) case where it isn't (as I say, I'm pro gay marriage, but don't see it as having any significance).



    Any time spent on the non-issue of gay marriage in this parliament is a waste of time.
    I agree. It's a waste of time for politicians to argue over something like gay marriage. Let's just let the homosexuals get married to each other, and move on to more important issues.
    Jackpot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I agree. It's a waste of time for politicians to argue over something like gay marriage. Let's just let the homosexuals get married to each other, and move on to more important issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogiston View Post
    And, as I'm to understand, it ended, er, not so great anyway, in terms of progress made in that department. Confirm?
    Not really. Passed the Commons pretty easily, should make its way through the Lords.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogiston View Post
    Fair point, but I don't think it's right to say "liberal" to refer to "uses laws to put its ideas into motion," as that's (obviously) not a strictly liberal idea. That, and "libertarian" and "liberal" have the same linguistic roots (liber -- Latin, "freedom"). I don't really think there's a good word for it.

    And "patchwork" is putting it lightly. Strictly speaking, I think libertarians would eventually push for no government regulation -- which is why I don't dislike all their ideas, but that's another issue.



    And, as I'm to understand, it ended, er, not so great anyway, in terms of progress made in that department. Confirm?
    It passed in a 400-175 vote. I would say that is quite easily.
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    I personally believe the title should be Homosexuality Vs Republicans. Though I am a British: I know for a fact that these 2 don't ever collerate with eachother... EVER!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion Demon View Post
    I personally believe the title should be Homosexuality Vs Republicans. Though I am a British: I know for a fact that these 2 don't ever collerate with eachother... EVER!
    That would be assuming that all Republicans subscribe to all of the same beliefs, would it not? Do you really think there are no pro-gay conservatives who are against abortion and no pro-life conservatives who oppose gay marriage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion Demon View Post
    I personally believe the title should be Homosexuality Vs Republicans. Though I am a British: I know for a fact that these 2 don't ever collerate with eachother... EVER!
    Never heard of the Log Cabin Republicans have ya?

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    I dont get why people care so damn much, stupid religion. Its not a big deal, let them do as they please. If they want to ruin their lives like the straights let em.
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    I made a joke and put it on my facebook:

    Quote Originally Posted by joke
    How would the founding fathers react to homosexual marriage?

    "A man marrying another man? That's almost as preposterous as letting a woman vote!"
    What do you guys think?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Never heard of the Log Cabin Republicans have ya?
    I read on Wikipedia that the LCR endorsed Romney, which only sounds surprising until you realize that LCR is itself an oxymoron.
    Jackpot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I read on Wikipedia that the LCR endorsed Romney, which only sounds surprising until you realize that LCR is itself an oxymoron.
    How is that surprising? Romney and Obama had the same view on Gay Marriage: Let the states handle it.

    Besides not all gays are monolithic and believe in liberalism, they may not share the social views of Conservatives, but can see the dangers of liberal economic and foreign policy views.

    or to quote a Gay Republican Congressman on the TV Show the West Wing

    "I agree with 95% of the Republican platform. I believe in local government. I'm in favor of individual rights rather than group rights. I believe free markets lead to free people and that the country needs a strong national defense. My life doesn't have to be about being a homosexual. It doesn't have to be entirely about that."
    Last edited by BigLutz; 10th February 2013 at 6:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I made a joke and put it on my facebook:

    What do you guys think?
    That's pretty accurate
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