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Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #3301
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    Maybe we shouldn't be able to force a Church to marry a couple, but we should take away the legal precedent that establishes the advantage of the marital status above the "partnership" type classes, because there should be no advantage under the law for being a Christian, or any other religion.
    It is irrelevant anyway. The majority of Churches will inevitably perform gay marriages due to societies stance on gay rights. If they don't then they won't last very long.

    If a church refused to marry a black couple that church would be torn to shreds via public opinion and scrutiny, the same will inevitably be true for churches who refuse to conduct gay marriages. Give it a good 15 years or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterna View Post
    It is irrelevant anyway. The majority of Churches will inevitably perform gay marriages due to societies stance on gay rights. If they don't then they won't last very long.
    If a church refused to marry a black couple that church would be torn to shreds via public opinion and scrutiny, the same will inevitably be true for churches who refuse to conduct gay marriages. Give it a good 15 years or so.
    The Church has always succumbed to public scrutiny and scientific progress, maybe explaining its adaptability and survival as a belief system as far as modern times. If Lutz is right and gays can get married at any point in any state, then there really is no problem with a slow acceptance by the Church at all.

    Before this I thought some states had illegalized gay marriage, but I guess that only applies to weddings in churches?

    On another note, most Americans want the feds to legalize same-sex marriage throughout the U.S.:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3682884.html
    which I guess means they are now allowed to marry in churches.

    This sounds silly, but I do need clarification on this bit that gays can legally marry in any state through the Justice of the Peace. Why would the issue be this big if that was the case?

  3. #3303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterna View Post
    It is irrelevant anyway. The majority of Churches will inevitably perform gay marriages due to societies stance on gay rights. If they don't then they won't last very long.

    If a church refused to marry a black couple that church would be torn to shreds via public opinion and scrutiny, the same will inevitably be true for churches who refuse to conduct gay marriages. Give it a good 15 years or so.
    Maybe in 50 years, I do not see it happening in 15 years, honestly churches have survived a Priest Abuse scandal, they will probably get by not accepting gay marriage for a rather long time. That being said in Europe we have the possibility of seeing a larger rejection of Gay Marriage in the same time frame, and well then there is the Middle East.

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    Maybe, maybe not, Lutz. Pope Francis seems to be far more accepting of it than the guy he replaced. In fact, after only a couple of months, I already like him a world better than I [I]ever[/I[ did Benedict. And that's not the only reason why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Maybe, maybe not, Lutz. Pope Francis seems to be far more accepting of it than the guy he replaced. In fact, after only a couple of months, I already like him a world better than I [I]ever[/I[ did Benedict. And that's not the only reason why.
    I agree, but there is a long gap between telling people that he wont judge them if they seek God * Meaning they would still be Gay but give up Gay Sex * and actually accepting Gay Marriage in Church. Personally I believe the Church has no place judging what "sins" go on in a bedroom, I mean they do marry Prostitutes and Porn Stars as well. But if they don't want to for religious reasons they should have that right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    The Church has always succumbed to public scrutiny and scientific progress, maybe explaining its adaptability and survival as a belief system as far as modern times. If Lutz is right and gays can get married at any point in any state, then there really is no problem with a slow acceptance by the Church at all.

    Before this I thought some states had illegalized gay marriage, but I guess that only applies to weddings in churches?

    On another note, most Americans want the feds to legalize same-sex marriage throughout the U.S.:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3682884.html
    which I guess means they are now allowed to marry in churches.

    This sounds silly, but I do need clarification on this bit that gays can legally marry in any state through the Justice of the Peace. Why would the issue be this big if that was the case?
    In most states gays can't get married period. By the government or church. When gay marriage is legalized in a state gays can get married by the government, churches simply have the option of marrying them or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterna View Post
    In most states gays can't get married period. By the government or church. When gay marriage is legalized in a state gays can get married by the government, churches simply have the option of marrying them or not.
    See, and that's what I thought. I didn't bother checking, because I lazily scanned the article Lutz provided:
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz
    Umm yeah it is justice of the peace perform legal wedding ceremonies all the time
    http://www.ehow.com/list_6519094_jus...uirements.html
    And it seemed legit. The issue is really clear cut no matter how you look at it, though.

    Churches cannot be forced out of their own bigotry.
    Homosexuals are human like anyone else and should be treated as such. They aren't animals, they should have the same rights as anyone else.

    It really comes down to that. How many people are actively disagreeing against gay marriage without some type of holy backing to their arguments? Very few. And even then their arguments are nearly as bad as the religious ones, because many of them arrive at the conclusion they do due to religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    See, and that's what I thought. I didn't bother checking, because I lazily scanned the article Lutz provided:

    And it seemed legit. The issue is really clear cut no matter how you look at it, though.

    Churches cannot be forced out of their own bigotry.
    Homosexuals are human like anyone else and should be treated as such. They aren't animals, they should have the same rights as anyone else.

    It really comes down to that. How many people are actively disagreeing against gay marriage without some type of holy backing to their arguments? Very few. And even then their arguments are nearly as bad as the religious ones, because many of them arrive at the conclusion they do due to religion.
    I was speaking in states when Gay Marriage was allowed, sorry for the confusion, states cannot force Churches to marry gays in states that allow Gay Marriage, but they can still get married by the Justice of the Peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    I was speaking in states when Gay Marriage was allowed, sorry for the confusion, states cannot force Churches to marry gays in states that allow Gay Marriage, but they can still get married by the Justice of the Peace
    It was really my fault, it was late and I didn't give it much of a mental scan before I "understood" it was only talking about states where gays can marry at all.

    The biggest question is, in 30-40 years, how are we going to explain to our posterity why we wouldn't allow gay people to marry? We'll sweep it under the rug like we did when we would let blacks have equal rights, I expect.

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    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/russian-t...-as-a-gay-man/

    Russian TV Anchor was fired almost immediately after coming out as Gay. You gotta wonder what is happening in Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/russian-t...-as-a-gay-man/

    Russian TV Anchor was fired almost immediately after coming out as Gay. You gotta wonder what is happening in Russia.
    As Yakov Smirnoff once said, "We have no gay people in Russia — there are homosexuals but they are not allowed to be gay about it. The punishment is seven years locked in prison with other men and there is a three-year waiting list for that."
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    As Yakov Smirnoff once said, "We have no gay people in Russia — there are homosexuals but they are not allowed to be gay about it. The punishment is seven years locked in prison with other men and there is a three-year waiting list for that."
    Didn't Ahmadinejad once say the same idiotic thing about Iran?

    I would say this systematic ignorance and prosecution of Gays is something the Human Rights Panel needs to look at but then again, seeing some of the countries that make up that Panel I doubt it would happen
    Last edited by BigLutz; 16th August 2013 at 1:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterna View Post
    It is irrelevant anyway. The majority of Churches will inevitably perform gay marriages due to societies stance on gay rights. If they don't then they won't last very long.

    If a church refused to marry a black couple that church would be torn to shreds via public opinion and scrutiny, the same will inevitably be true for churches who refuse to conduct gay marriages. Give it a good 15 years or so.
    I don"t know if I agree with you on that. The biggest difference between gay and black rights movements is visibility. It's much easier to visually see discrimination against a black person than someone who's gay. For most people gay means tv-gay, as in highly flamboyant and stereotypical gay. So in public conciousness they might only be aware of discrimination that happens against them, not the group as a whole.

    Or I might be completely wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    I don"t know if I agree with you on that. The biggest difference between gay and black rights movements is visibility. It's much easier to visually see discrimination against a black person than someone who's gay. For most people gay means tv-gay, as in highly flamboyant and stereotypical gay. So in public conciousness they might only be aware of discrimination that happens against them, not the group as a whole.

    Or I might be completely wrong.
    I agree with that, but I would add that it isn't just visibility. The timeframe that this inevitable acceptance will occur in is hopelessly long for the rights movements going on right now. In 30-40 years gays will likely be accepted, but do we want to wait that long? I certainly want to see gays have equal rights as soon as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    I don"t know if I agree with you on that. The biggest difference between gay and black rights movements is visibility. It's much easier to visually see discrimination against a black person than someone who's gay. For most people gay means tv-gay, as in highly flamboyant and stereotypical gay. So in public conciousness they might only be aware of discrimination that happens against them, not the group as a whole.

    Or I might be completely wrong.
    There was a time where black people were heavily stereotyped also. You wouldn't see that on tv now because of how offensive it is. I'm sure there are gays who act flamboyant, but I doubt that's a majority.
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

  16. #3316
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    I personally have nothing wrong with that. I mean, as long they are not growing rabid and destroying buildings, they are fine!

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    No church should be forced to perform a gay marriage if it is against their beliefs, as we wouldn't force a Mosque's congregation to accept bacon into their diet. There will be many churches which will perform gay marriages, as well as town halls. A few which wouldn't perform a gay marriage wouldn't prevent two men from getting married, as they can keep on looking for gay-friendly marriage halls and such. I personally don't agree with the gay lifestyle, but I do agree that they have the right to be gay, as we, as a species, have the right to be what we want to be. I also see the 1st amendment as something which should legally allow gay marriages to be performed, since there are churches such as the United Church of Christ which do believe it's okay for two men or two women to marry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.FusRoDah View Post
    I personally don't agree with the gay lifestyle, but...
    You're implying that being gay is a choice, which it isn't.
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.FusRoDah View Post
    I also see the 1st amendment as something which should legally allow gay marriages to be performed, since there are churches such as the United Church of Christ which do believe it's okay for two men or two women to marry.
    The first amendment has nothing to do with any type of religion. If you meant "and" instead of "since", then I understand and agree, but otherwise, Engels v. Vitale established the precedent of separation between church and state. The constitution, whether living or static, is a secular document and has no connection to any church.

    I personally don't agree with the gay lifestyle, but I do agree with the right to be gay...
    +1 for marioguy, he's right on the money. To add to it, though, even if it was a choice there are no grounds to disagree with it. It reminds me of my grandparents who dislike the "lifestyle" of people with tattoos in that it has no basis and is primarily hated by social stigma and dogma.
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    why do people think therapy can cure homosexuality? i understand therapy to help recover from a loss, but someones sexual orientation is part of who you are. only we can change who we are.
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...rches/0Kw8LKfX

    Everybody, sign this. Churches need to be taxed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyuremFreeze View Post
    why do people think therapy can cure homosexuality? i understand therapy to help recover from a loss, but someones sexual orientation is part of who you are. only we can change who we are.
    Well, it's not only that. Sometimes the ones who are in charge of therapy are the ones who need it the most. The entire dogma behind it that they draw upon to justify the "conversion therapy" is flawed and disgusting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    Well, it's not only that. Sometimes the ones who are in charge of therapy are the ones who need it the most. The entire dogma behind it that they draw upon to justify the "conversion therapy" is flawed and disgusting.
    i honestly think the conversion therapy is disgusting on its own. homosexuality should be more accepted, they are people to, they just like the same sex. conversion therapy shows just how disgusting society is. you know what is right.
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...rches/0Kw8LKfX

    Everybody, sign this. Churches need to be taxed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    Well, it's not only that. Sometimes the ones who are in charge of therapy are the ones who need it the most. The entire dogma behind it that they draw upon to justify the "conversion therapy" is flawed and disgusting.
    For some reason, the people in charge of conversion therapy are usually homosexual themselves. Do they think that if they can help convert others they can convert themselves, or do they just want some other homosexuals to hit on?
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    For some reason, the people in charge of conversion therapy are usually homosexual themselves. Do they think that if they can help convert others they can convert themselves, or do they just want some other homosexuals to hit on?
    LOL true. Pray the gay away? not gonna happen lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by wc662 View Post
    LOL true. Pray the gay away? not gonna happen lol
    People can delude themselves to think that they have been "cured" if they try hard enough.
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

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