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Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #3376
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    Only in your mind. Sending someone cookies does not equal "get back in the kitchen." It might have been a foolish idea or it might have been a nice gesture. "Let's send the protestors a nice snack."
    That's even lamer than one guy who I heard defend Romney when he donated canned goods to shelters following Sandy instead of sending them money. "Maybe the homeless would prefer a hot meal to a wad of cash" the guy said.

    I thought no Republican supporter could be more pathetic than THAT, but guess I was wrong...

    Blaze, I didn't see it as malice. I did see it, however, as ignorance, and a desperate attempt to defend a governor who's popularity is in a free fall.

  2. #3377
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    Donating canned goods as opposed to making the shelter go out and buy the canned goods themselves is lame?
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    @Maedar

    I never said anyone thought it was done out of malice. All I said was that it was extremely short sighted of the politician.

    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    Donating canned goods as opposed to making the shelter go out and buy the canned goods themselves is lame?
    http://americablog.com/2012/11/hurri...ey-relief.html

    “We are not asking for material donations,” said Laura Steinmetz, spokeswoman for the South Jersey Region of the organization. “Financial donations allow us to quickly and efficiently meet the needs of the people in a disaster. It’s far more expensive for us to receive the donated goods, sort them, warehouse them and transport them. So our financial donations are much more cost effective.”
    The red cross specifically asked for money or blood donations. Romney then decided to buy $5k worth of material donations, give them to his supporters, and then had them donate them back to him at a highly publicized event. There's pretty much no defense for that.

  4. #3379
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    Other articles report it differently.

    All the ones that bash Romney trace back to Buzzfeed.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/msnb...urricane-sandy

    "Two large TV screens at the front of the venue bore the logo of the American Red Cross and the message: 'Sandy: Support the Relief Effort. Text ’REDCROSS’ to 90999 to make a $10 donation,'” Felicia Sonmez added.

    But MSNBC either missed that part of the event, or deliberately chose to ignore it.

    Sheppard wrote that while the Red Cross prefers cash donations, they do not reject other forms of assistance, according to their page on "Smart giving tips for disasters."

    "If you’d like to donate large amounts of items, work directly with organizations that deal with donating bulk supplies, which can help large numbers of people in the affected community," the Red Cross says.

    Apparently, the Romney campaign did that, according to the Washington Post.

    “We’re going to box these things up in just a minute and put them on some trucks, and then we’re going to send them into, I think it’s New Jersey. There’s a site we’ve identified where we can take these goods and distribute them to people who need them,” Romney said at the event.

    "There a lot of ways to help in this situation, and if people were giving food, clothes, or supplies that they had taken from their homes to help in this situation - maybe because that's all they have! - mocking it is disgraceful," Sheppard wrote
    Who cares how or why they made the donation. Everything gets politicized.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    Who cares how or why they made the donation. Everything gets politicized.
    And you don't see how a politician who's running for president using a national disaster as a way to gain people's vote is problematic? To politicize everything is one thing, to buy $5K worth of donations for your supporters to donate to you so you look super benevolent and get other people to vote for you... well that's kind of in a whole 'nother ball park.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    Donating canned goods as opposed to making the shelter go out and buy the canned goods themselves is lame?
    Well, what could they have gotten with that "wad of cash"?

    Blankets, heaters, medicine, better equipment; they could have repaired the place, used it to fund programs... In fact, Romney could have rebuilt entire homes that were destroyed by Sandy out of pocket change.

    But no, he chose a symbolic gesture with a box of canned goods.

    Please stop trying to defend the lame actions. Honestly, why won't you EVER admit that a Republican did something wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    @MaedarThe red cross specifically asked for money or blood donations. Romney then decided to buy $5k worth of material donations, give them to his supporters, and then had them donate them back to him at a highly publicized event. There's pretty much no defense for that.
    There's no defence for providing important supplies in the aftermath of a natural disaster? Yeah, what an arsehole. Come on. This is barrel scraping.

    It's also good to know that the Red Cross is now the ultimate arbiter and authority on how individuals should donate their money and goods to charity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Well, what could they have gotten with that "wad of cash"?

    Blankets, heaters, medicine, better equipment; they could have repaired the place, used it to fund programs... In fact, Romney could have rebuilt entire homes that were destroyed by Sandy out of pocket change.

    But no, he chose a symbolic gesture with a box of canned goods.

    Please stop trying to defend the lame actions. Honestly, why won't you EVER admit that a Republican did something wrong?
    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/05/...emain-unspent/

    Cash donations are often spent poorly, in unneeded places or in this case not at all. Large groups such as the Red Cross are often less efficient than local charities whose members have a greater understanding of the local area.

    NB: Before the trolls start, I am not disparaging the giving of monetary donations to charity. Also, reply in the Obama thread if you want to carry on. More related to that.
    Last edited by Snorunt conservationist; 8th September 2013 at 12:54 PM.

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    Snorunt, the issue is, both you and LDS are trying to make excuses for inexcusable actions.

    "Give the protestors a snack". Yeah, right. Sure. That was his intention. That one made me laugh more than I have in a month. How dumb do the Republicans think we are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Snorunt, the issue is, both you and LDS are trying to make excuses for inexcusable actions.

    "Give the protestors a snack". Yeah, right. Sure. That was his intention. That one made me laugh more than I have in a month. How dumb do the Republicans think we are?
    Put this in the other thread and I'll answer it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    There's no defence for providing important supplies in the aftermath of a natural disaster? Yeah, what an arsehole. Come on. This is barrel scraping.
    Here, let me copy and paste my previous response, which adresses that point, and I assume you just didn't catch it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    And you don't see how a politician who's running for president using a national disaster as a way to gain people's vote is problematic? To politicize everything is one thing, to buy $5K worth of donations for your supporters to donate to you so you look super benevolent and get other people to vote for you... well that's kind of in a whole 'nother ball park.
    You know, all that aditional money he spent organizing the fund raiser (which technically didn't raise any funds since people didn't donate anything that hadn't already been donated by Romney) could have just been spent on adittional donations.

    He's such a swell guy!

    Sure any and all donations might have been helpful, but really any help that was provided was merely incidental to his little publicity stunt.

  11. #3386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    And you don't see how a politician who's running for president using a national disaster as a way to gain people's vote is problematic? To politicize everything is one thing, to buy $5K worth of donations for your supporters to donate to you so you look super benevolent and get other people to vote for you... well that's kind of in a whole 'nother ball park.
    Well, how he responds to a disaster could demonstrate how he would respond if president!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Well, what could they have gotten with that "wad of cash"?

    Blankets, heaters, medicine, better equipment; they could have repaired the place, used it to fund programs... In fact, Romney could have rebuilt entire homes that were destroyed by Sandy out of pocket change.

    But no, he chose a symbolic gesture with a box of canned goods.

    Please stop trying to defend the lame actions. Honestly, why won't you EVER admit that a Republican did something wrong?
    Snorunt answered the first part. When are you going to stop nitpicking stupid crap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    Here, let me copy and paste my previous response, which adresses that point, and I assume you just didn't catch it.



    You know, all that aditional money he spent organizing the fund raiser (which technically didn't raise any funds since people didn't donate anything that hadn't already been donated by Romney) could have just been spent on adittional donations.

    He's such a swell guy!

    Sure any and all donations might have been helpful, but really any help that was provided was merely incidental to his little publicity stunt.
    Well since it was originally supposed to be a policital event, the money had already been spent and according to this article, people did bring their own donations.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...d-by-campaign/
    Funny how none of the articles even mention how much was brought by other people. I guess they were too busy attacking Romney to include that part.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Snorunt, the issue is, both you and LDS are trying to make excuses for inexcusable actions.

    "Give the protestors a snack". Yeah, right. Sure. That was his intention. That one made me laugh more than I have in a month. How dumb do the Republicans think we are?
    Do you have proof that wasn't his intention? How is sending cookies out an inexcusable action? I don't believe I'm allowed to answer that question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    Do you have proof that wasn't his intention? How is sending cookies out an inexcusable action? I don't believe I'm allowed to answer that question.
    Do YOU have any proof that Hillary was in any way behind a conspiracy to intentionally deny aid to four Americans in Benghazi and let them die?

    Nope. You don't.

    And I don't need proof that wasn't his intention. I don't have proof that the Pope is Catholic either, but it's kind of obvious.

  13. #3388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Do YOU have any proof that Hillary was in any way behind a conspiracy to intentionally deny aid to four Americans in Benghazi and let them die?

    Nope. You don't.

    And I don't need proof that wasn't his intention. I don't have proof that the Pope is Catholic either, but it's kind of obvious.
    Trying to change the subject again? I wouldn't call it a conspiracy. It might just have been bad judgement.

    So you are a mind reader then? You discern a man's intention through a plate of cookies?
    You need proof... that the man in charge of the Catholic Church, in a position that requires one to BE Catholic, is in fact...Catholic?
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    Let's remember that the political and social should be restricted to a different sub-forum than this one. We are getting off track. While gender identity can be skewed to have some determination on homosexual issues, left and right clash definitely isn't. We really should be bringing these issues to the thread it is meant for.
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    I'm sorry, Fed, but he keeps insulting my intelligence by trying to convince me of the possibility that the guy might have been offering a crowd of protestors a snack, and we both know it's utterly ridiculous.

    He's trying to be the guy's lawyer and use technicalities ("You have no proof," he says, even though I also have no proof that leprechauns don't exist), when he forgets, as I often state, that voters don't buy that.

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    Any insult is in your head. Can you eat cookies as a snack? Then it's a legitimate possibility.

    Actually, you'd be the one required to provide proof that leprechauns exist. Just like you would need to prove that he wasn't just trying to provide a snack.

    I'm betting that most voters don't care one bit about "Cookie-Gate."
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    You actually think proof is needed for everything?

    I think that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs founded their respective companies because they were partners in a vast conspiracy to give everyone in the country eye strain by looking at computer monitors, damage their vision, and have to wear glasses, making the whole country look like nerds like THEM.

    Think that's ridiculous? Crazy? Ludicrous? Think it's, you know, kind of obvious that isn't true?

    Prove I'm wrong.

  18. #3393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    You actually think proof is needed for everything?

    I think that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs founded their respective companies because they were partners in a vast conspiracy to give everyone in the country eye strain by looking at computer monitors, damage their vision, and have to wear glasses, making the whole country look like nerds like THEM.

    Think that's ridiculous? Crazy? Ludicrous? Think it's, you know, kind of obvious that isn't true?

    Prove I'm wrong.
    Really? In a debate, the person making the claim is the one required to prove said claim. Feel free to check the Debate Forum rules.

    Objective facts don't require proof. Example: The moon orbits the earth.

    Subjective facts do. Example: The cookies were provided to be rude.
    Last edited by LDSman; 8th September 2013 at 11:45 PM.
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    The anger caused by cookies. Wow.

    Ok, so this politician provided cookies to protesters. No intelligent politician does anything without due deliberation, so he clearly had a motive for his actions... Right?

    It's just a stupid move to give anything to protesters as a way to cool them down, because it is downplaying their intelligence and ability to think critically. If I was handed a plate of cookies while discussing something with someone I didn't agree with, I would eat them... but I would also be very offended. Why would someone think a sweet treat would work as a sedative for anyone other than a child? Bad move, lack of foresight.

    Perhaps they weren't provided to be rude, but the gesture itself is rude. You really have two choices: the politician is an idiot, or he's a jerk (well, 3, he could be both).

    This really should be discussed somewhere else, because I believe the rules also say to stay on topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    The anger caused by cookies. Wow.

    Ok, so this politician provided cookies to protesters. No intelligent politician does anything without due deliberation, so he clearly had a motive for his actions... Right?

    It's just a stupid move to give anything to protesters as a way to cool them down, because it is downplaying their intelligence and ability to think critically. If I was handed a plate of cookies while discussing something with someone I didn't agree with, I would eat them... but I would also be very offended. Why would someone think a sweet treat would work as a sedative for anyone other than a child? Bad move, lack of foresight.

    Perhaps they weren't provided to be rude, but the gesture itself is rude. You really have two choices: the politician is an idiot, or he's a jerk (well, 3, he could be both).

    This really should be discussed somewhere else, because I believe the rules also say to stay on topic.
    Being handed cookies while debating with someone wouldn't anger or offend me. Some people just have an ingrained host mentality. "They are here, offer them a drink or snack. It's only polite." Not offering something is considered a deliberate snub in some areas.

    Who said he was trying to cool them down? He may have just had extra cookies and thought it would be a polite thing to do.

    4 choices: Idiot, jerk, both, or polite.
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    I'm going to leave it at this, to keep everyone on topic and end this particular discussion: four choices, idiot, jerk, both, and polite. Even if I give you the possibility of him meaning to be polite, given the venue and the attitude that should be expected, what are the chances he was anything but wrong?

    3/4, he's a loser. Look at the issue without bias and you would see he's a loser 4/4.
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    Without bias would mean you don't assume he did it out of malice. The bias is assuming an ulterior motive.
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    Idiot, jerk, loser, LIAR.

    And I guarantee, the Democrat candidate will run campaign ads around the clock showing him making his promise NOT to pass any new abortion laws.

    Not even close to being polite.

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    I could have sworn that this was the homosexuality debate tread. Guess I was mistaken.

    I've saying before that voting against gay rights because homosexuality is against your religion is akin to voting for Sharia law. Last time I said that though, some mod (I forgot who it was) incorrectly thought I was showing malice towards Sharia law. I just thought it was the best comparison I could think of.
    Jackpot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I could have sworn that this was the homosexuality debate tread. Guess I was mistaken.

    I've saying before that voting against gay rights because homosexuality is against your religion is akin to voting for Sharia law. Last time I said that though, some mod (I forgot who it was) incorrectly thought I was showing malice towards Sharia law. I just thought it was the best comparison I could think of.
    What's even wrong with showing malice towards Sharia Law? It's a fundamentally bigoted and degrading system and should be depicted as such. The countries it has been implemented are extremely hard to live in for almost everybody. Doesn't help that they condemn gays, blasphemers, even women, for being who they are.

    Crap way of life IMO.
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