In that case, shall we discuss about anti-gay laws in Russia especially with how it would affect the Winter Olympics?
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Well here is Putin's Op-Ed on the New York Times and this quote is eyebrow-raising.
My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.
Ever hear of Diogenes, Wiz? He was a philosopher around the time of Socrates.
He was a disgusting person too. Stories about him say that in order to make his views known to people (stoicism and cynicism mostly) he urinated on people who offended him, defecated and masturbated in public areas, and made obscene gestures at people. (Plato once described him as "a Socrates gone mad.")
Long story short, he was the kind of guy who wasn't pleasant to be around.
And yet, he's often regarded as a great thinker and an intellectual. One of the tamer myths about him is one you might recognize, the one about him wandering the world with a lantern searching for an honest man. (The reason he was said to have done that was because, as a cynic, he honestly thought such a man did not exist.)
But anyway, that just proves that some utterly revolting people somehow gain followers and respect for God knows what reason.
Last edited by Maedar; 14th September 2013 at 1:34 PM.
^ And... What does that have to do with this thread that I believe was created to be about homosexuality and politics?
It's so unfortunate that this thread appears to have gone off topic, as I feel that the topic of this thread is something which really demands attention.
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Uh, I was making a comparison. He mentioned how Putin was "a disgusting human being", and I pointed out how that is not always a liability when you are trying to influence people and get them to listen to you. Diogenes was also a disgusting human being (and a pervert), but some people actually respected - and even embraced - his ideas.
On topic, yes, but not entirely correct. Saying someone is a good person because they did one good thing or had a single positive revelation is wrong. The analogy you made was an intelligent person who acted immature and in some cases immorally, where Putin is in many cases immoral and isn't intelligent enough to justify it. A good example is his treatment of gays, which is unjustified.Originally Posted by Maedar
The only thing I wonder is if the good he has done in recent times, like helping to resolve the issue in Syria, would overcome the bad he has done all his life, like blatant corporate takeover at a large scale and hatred of different denominations of people for no justifiable reason. He's even hated by his people, who campaigned a few years back under the battle cry of "Putin must go". He started out all right, but he's a monster.
@Ninfia-fan, responding to a comment you believe to be off-topic or spam is also spam. In fact, you are the only one who didn't contribute anything here, because Maedar was making a point about Putin's stance on many things which I linked to his character and thus the likelihood of the U.S. participating in the Olympics. Not trying to be a jerk, I just wanted to point that out so you don't get in trouble.
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Uhm, well, Wiz, in Putin's defense, he's certainly qualified, more so than many modern world leaders known for actual atrocities. I mean, he graduated from the International Law branch of the Law Department of the Leningrad State University, and was then a Lieutenant Colonel in the KGB before going on to have a political career that has spanned from 1990 to the present, and his approval rating in Russia was at one point 81%, better than any other world leader at the time. (Seriously, guys like Saddam Hussein can't claim a record like that.)
I'm not saying I think Putin is competent and the best they've ever had (because I don't) but my comparison is still somewhat accurate. They've had FAR worse.
Yep! Unfortunately, same cannot be said for the Republican Lt. Gov candidate of Virginia who is part of the Virginia GOP gubernatorial anti-gay trifecta . Can we remind this guy that according to the Bible, slavery is natural?
In other news, Todd Hughes has become the first openly gay Circuit Judge to be appointed by the Senate.
Looks like there's more hate from Alan Keyes, who ran against Obama for a senate seat in 2004. I can see why he lost, what with his despicable views on homosexuality and the chance that some of that crazy might rub off onto his other policies.
Comparing gay marriage to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia, and calling it the "archetype of all crimes against humanity" is more than disgusting. How people like this can show their faced in public after statements like that is beyond me.
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EDIT: And that's not even the worst part about Keyes. He called Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter Mary Cheney a sinner and his own daughter happens to be lesbian!
Last edited by Silver Soul; 24th September 2013 at 8:08 PM.
If the majority of people who followed a faith were level-headed, honest, kind people, I wouldn't have a problem with them or religion as a whole, but as it stands the people who still stand for the traditional values are a tiny minority.
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And this guy is one of them. Scott Lively, the anti-gay pastor who called Russia's anti-gay law one of his proudest achievements and also took credit for Uganda's law.
Most of the people against teh gays don't even know why they're against them. Logically, there is no sound reason to not fight for their rights and vilify them so. They hate because it is the only coping mechanism they know to deal with concepts they are ignorant about.
I feel nothing but contempt for them, mostly because if they would take half an hour out of their day to critically think about the issue and acknowledge all the evidence laid before them they'd realize how foolish they are being.
2. See, this is a major reason so many people are against or apathetic (most people falling into the latter) with regards to homosexuality and its issues. The arrogance and extent of viciousness makes you just as bad and intolerant as those you consider yourself better than.
There are perfectly logical reasons for people to oppose gay marriage. I don't agree with them, but I have enough of an open mind to understand that not all those who oppose certain homosexual issues are rabid gay bashers.
Last edited by Snorunt conservationist; 27th September 2013 at 7:06 PM.
2. Which loudest voices in what context?
3. Oh please. Gay marriage is not comparable to the civil rights movement or the abolition of slavery. How on earth can anyone make that comparison sincerely?
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I can't speak for Silver, but I think he means the most prominent social opinion as well as the majority opinion in certain political rings .2. Which loudest voices in what context?
They are exactly equivalent! The arguments against gay marriage today are almost identical to the arguments against same-sex marriage were in the past. This is a civil rights issue, allowing people the same rights and abilities as their peers, so how isn't it equivalent to freeing black people or allowing them to vote?3. Oh please. Gay marriage is not comparable to the civil rights movement or the abolition of slavery. How on earth can anyone make that comparison sincerely?
It's the same issue with a different group of people, and the same Bible that wants to keep them from equality.
If my doctrine was to love everyone, but I believed that same-sex marriage was wrong and shouldn't be allowed, would you agree that I followed through with loving my neighbors? Maybe that's too close to home or could actually be true... so how about a different scenario? What if I "loved" everyone, but wanted to reestablish slavery as a national institution? Would I love my peers who disagreed?Originally Posted by anselm the wise
Simple rights, human rights, are essential to treating your peers equally, and doubly as important is you profess a love for your fellow man. You can't love your fellow man if you don't want to give him equivalent rights.
Neither of you have been able to provide a reason you're against gay marriage, yet you are against it. This proves Eterna's original statement that sitting and thinking about why you're against the proposition has proven too much of a challenge, and I have to say I agree with his conclusion.
I'm talking about so-called Christian movements, organizations like the Catholic League, and the GOP Representatives like Gohmert, Bachmann, and Steve King. Heck, why not bring in Bryan Fischer and Rush Limbaugh? I can go on.2. Which loudest voices in what context?
It's not just gay marriage like I said, it's LGBT rights that is being threatened. I may be Catholic but even I can admit that the church can be wrong on many things. They were wrong on slavery and segregation before you know.3. Oh please. Gay marriage is not comparable to the civil rights movement or the abolition of slavery. How on earth can anyone make that comparison sincerely?
EDIT: Also news in my home state, NJ Judge rules that same-sex couples can marry in New Jersey.
Last edited by Silver Soul; 28th September 2013 at 5:35 AM.
This post is not targeting any specific person. I'm just talking generally.
Saying that you don't hate gay people but you're still against gay marriage is equivalent to saying that you don't have a problem with interracial couples but you just don't want them to be allowed to get married.
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2)It may not be comparable to slavery, but certainly to the civil rights struggle.
Violence against minorities to put them in their place, or just because? Check
Making minorities second class citizens? Check
Using religious doctrine to keep them there? Check
The sereotyping and making caricatures of minorities by the media? Check
Discrimination by establishments against serving said minorities? Check
Sure, there are many differences that keep it from being an exact equivalent (such as that gays can pass as straight while blacks can't pass as white, although we could argue that each minorities behavior was regulated into acceptable and unacceptable based on what made the oppressiong group comfortable and uncomfortable, and draw another parallel there...), but saying that they're not comprable is really ignorant.