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Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #3476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Give it up, Ansem. The Supreme Court stuck DOMA and Prop. 8 down. Are you gay marriage opponents going to swear to overturn this decision like you did with Roe v. Wade over forty years ago?

    If so, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Especially since I do not see a Republican President with the same pre-20th century mindset as Scalia being in charge when a new one has to be appointed. And most of the current ones are getting old.
    Dude.
    I don't give a crap what the government says about whether or not gays can marry. I am stating my own opinion. And just because they CAN marry legally, does not make it right.

    As I have said before, I would not treat a gay person any differently than a straight person, but I cannot condone their actions. So, even though I wouldn't treat them differently in a friendly setting, I cannot support gay marriage.
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    Want me to give you an example of what could possibly happen when people like you get your way? I doubt you're a big fan of the anime One Piece but I'm sure a lot of folks here are.

    See, it's strongly suggested that the world it takes place on used to be one of high technology and scientific advancement. The "Void Century" refers to a hundred years of the world's history that has seemingly gone missing. Bits and pieces of what happened during this time have popped up as the series has gone on, including the existence of robot armies, space travel, and technological super-weapons. The World Government actively hunts down and kills anyone with knowledge of the Void Century. We might assume that whoever founded the World Government didn't like the progress of the modern world, and somehow regressed things to it's current state, one where the society resembles the 17th to 18th century, more or less.

    Now, I can state many reasons why this is a bad thing (the World Government is a cruel despotism that is, in many ways worse than many of ours) and while this is a satire, it shows what could happen if revolutionaries with antiquated and backwards ideas ever succeeded.

    Indeed, would you prefer going back to 17th Century outlook on gays? When they were hanged, often without trial, alongside witches? You never think of that, do you?

    Oh, by the way, that's how the Westborough Baptist Church would have it, if they got their way.
    Last edited by Maedar; 16th October 2013 at 12:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Want me to give you an example of what could possibly happen when people like you get your way? I doubt you're a big fan of the anime One Piece but I'm sure a lot of folks here are.

    See, it's strongly suggested that the world it takes place on used to be one of high technology and scientific advancement. The "Void Century" refers to a hundred years of the world's history that has seemingly gone missing. Bits and pieces of what happened during this time have popped up as the series has gone on, including the existence of robot armies, space travel, and technological super-weapons. The World Government actively hunts down and kills anyone with knowledge of the Void Century. We might assume that whoever founded the World Government didn't like the progress of the modern world, and somehow regressed things to it's current state, one where the society resembles the 17th to 18th century, more or less.

    Now, I can state many reasons why this is a bad thing (the World Government is a cruel despotism that is, in many ways worse than many of ours) and while this is a satire, it shows what could happen if revolutionaries with antiquated and backwards ideas ever succeeded.

    Indeed, would you prefer going back to 17th Century outlook on gays? When they were hanged, often without trial, alongside witches? You never think of that, do you?

    Oh, by the way, that's how the Westborough Baptist Church would have it, if they got their way.
    I haven't really watched the show all the way through, but I know the general premise.

    I would appreciate it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I never said that I thought that gays should be put to death. As I have said (many times) before, I treat gay people no differently that straight people. But that does not mean that I condone their actions. Its like in the abortion debate, while I think abortion is wrong and I myself would not approve of one, I wouldn't treat the people who fight for "women rights" any differently, But when the subject turned to abortion, that is when I would have to disagree with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    I haven't really watched the show all the way through, but I know the general premise.
    I suggest you watch it all the way through. All of it. Right now.

    I would appreciate it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I never said that I thought that gays should be put to death. As I have said (many times) before, I treat gay people no differently that straight people. But that does not mean that I condone their actions. Its like in the abortion debate, while I think abortion is wrong and I myself would not approve of one, I wouldn't treat the people who fight for "women rights" any differently, But when the subject turned to abortion, that is when I would have to disagree with them.
    In the end, making sure you don't treat gays or women differently if they support gay marriage or bodily rights, respectively, makes no difference, You are already busy trying to rid them of their rights. Maybe not rights, but moral and social prerogatives. The damage is done, even if you don't directly discriminate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monek-OP
    Is there a "valid" reason outside of religious beliefs? And wouldn't wishing you could be gay be breaking a commandment also?
    Is the religious points even valid? If so, in what ways? Now, consider the major of the world population believe in God and, still, it's not a valid reason, except for them. It doesn't exist a reason to be against it because there's nothing to be against. Homosexuality is genetic and no one choose'd to be one; a gay. It simply happens and there's nothing to be done. How can someone be against something so natural? You see, with all of this, I don't think there's a valid reason to be against such a thing.
    The only thing I see their using is that gays can't have children and this impede the cicle of life (to born, pass its genes and then die) but really... This doesn't apply nowadays, considering how the world changed and everyone that was once incapable to have a children with their own blood and now, they can. And **** the cicle of life, too.

    And wouldn't wishing you could be gay be breaking a commandment also?
    It's unlikely this would ever happen, really!
    Only if homosexuality was so mainstream to be and be gay was cool. But it isn't and the gay condition is hard as our population is straight and as such a gay does have his problems finding partners, except if gay . And second, "we" still have our own prejudices against homosexuality and that wat, it makes things even harder to gays. Although "we're" getting more and more better in that sense <3
    Last edited by Sohryu; 16th October 2013 at 7:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akanjăo View Post
    It's unlikely this would ever happen, really!
    Only if homosexuality was so mainstream to be and be gay was cool. But it isn't and the gay condition is hard as our population is straight and as such a gay does have his problems finding partners, except if gay . And second, "we" still have our own prejudices against homosexuality and that wat, it makes things even harder to gays. Although "we're" getting more and more better in that sense <3
    The thing is, Akanjăo, one of the biggest misconception about the gay lifestyle that is promoted by slime like the WBC is that "gays recruit", which is utter nonsense. That's why ignorant comments like that get started.

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    The Tea Party Unity Founder calls for class action lawsuit... against homosexuality.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/tea-p...homosexuality/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    The Tea Party Unity Founder calls for class action lawsuit... against homosexuality.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/tea-p...homosexuality/

    One reply to that story sums up my thoughts on it entirely:

    Who or what would be named as respondent in this lawsuit? Do they have an address for "homosexuality" so the complaint can be served on it?

    I would like to file a lawsuit against gluttony, sloth, greed, pride, wrath, envy and -- most especially -- idiocy
    You know, I also wanted to sue Paramount after wasting ten bucks to go see Battleship but I couldn't do that either.


    Edit: By the way:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4124840.html

    Note the "ruled unanimously" part.

    You lose, Christie.
    Last edited by Maedar; 18th October 2013 at 11:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    I haven't really watched the show all the way through, but I know the general premise.

    I would appreciate it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I never said that I thought that gays should be put to death. As I have said (many times) before, I treat gay people no differently that straight people. But that does not mean that I condone their actions. Its like in the abortion debate, while I think abortion is wrong and I myself would not approve of one, I wouldn't treat the people who fight for "women rights" any differently, But when the subject turned to abortion, that is when I would have to disagree with them.
    You may not think gays should be put to death, but the bible that you believe in says that they should be put to death. There's honestly nothing to disagree with here. It's two consenting adults doing something completely harmless. It hurts no one.

    I'd suggest stop putting down the book that says gays should be put to death and pick something that, well, doesn't want us dead? (or to just burn for eternity, either one)

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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenJynx View Post
    You may not think gays should be put to death, but the bible that you believe in says that they should be put to death. There's honestly nothing to disagree with here. It's two consenting adults doing something completely harmless. It hurts no one.

    I'd suggest stop putting down the book that says gays should be put to death and pick something that, well, doesn't want us dead? (or to just burn for eternity, either one)
    Maybe he should just skip to the New Testament, where the stuff with Jesus starts. He tends to talk a lot more about "forgiveness and tolerance" and a not a whole lot about the "fire and brimstone" and "sinners will burn for all eternity" stuff.

    Take the Good Samaritan parable. Samaritans were considered cruel and evil people by the Jews, and a story like that one where a Samaritan was portrayed as a kind, charitable man would have come as a shock to Jesus' likely audience. We never think of things like that. Jesus truly believed men had inherent goodness, and that one man should not tell another, "I am good, you are evil", to paraphrase.

    I could be here all day giving examples of the way he expressed this, but I thing I'll just express it by saying, read the Gospels, but the stuff that came before them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver_Shea View Post
    I'm gay. Just sayin.
    Also, why is there a thread about homosexuality/religion on a Pokemon website? o.o
    Even if it is "Miscellaneous", it's still random people debating about my lifestyle.
    woo >.>
    I have no idea. Exactly why the folks here think that complaining about issues like this on a Pokémon fan site is going to get much progress is a mystery to me. (Maybe it's because people on actual unbiased political debate websites tend to make more compelling opposing arguments.)

    Update: First of all, Christ Christie has given up. He will stop fighting gay marriage in New Jersey:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...r=Gay%20Voices

    ...sadly for him, this means, by modern GOP standards, he's a RINO who can pretty much forget any chance of running for President or gaining any respect from the party at large from this point. Which is a shame.

    In related news, Senator elect Cory Booker scored a big victory for gay rights today:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4136594.html

    Ever wonder what would happen if you actually did that? Now you know.
    Last edited by Maedar; 21st October 2013 at 9:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    I'm proud that my home state New Jersey is the 14th state to have marriage equality.
    Hell yeah One day every state will have marriage equality and everybody who opposed it will look like those people 50 years ago picketing against interracial marriage.
    So happy to be alive during these changing times
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver_Shea View Post
    Hell yeah One day every state will have marriage equality and everybody who opposed it will look like those people 50 years ago picketing against interracial marriage.
    So happy to be alive during these changing times
    Exactly.
    It will definitely get better, it is just a matter of time.
    Then again, things got worse in Russia...
    I feel like it is not being talked about enough (in general, not on Serebii).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xerneas View Post
    Exactly.
    It will definitely get better, it is just a matter of time.
    Then again, things got worse in Russia...
    I feel like it is not being talked about enough (in general, not on Serebii).
    Putin and his goons can't live forever. He thinks he made himself look big throwing two members of a rock band (who were not threat to him at all) in jail for their protest?

    It made him look like a bully, that's what it made him look like.

    Let's not forget the Russian government's utterly humiliating attempt to sue Madonna for the same thing (the guy made Orly Taitz look competent) and their threat to arrest Lady Gaga (which was all words; they didn't have the nerve to back up). It may take longer, but Putin's silly ideas will die out just as all such ideas will.

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    They all delay the inevitable. Take heart that these radical proposals and outright bigotry are the death wails of a dying mindset.

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    As Hawaii debates whether or not to be the 16th state to legalize gay marriage, as seen in this story, something has been brought to my attention.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4172274.html

    The biggest opponent of legalizing gay marriage in the state, claiming to be in favor of "traditional marriage", is State Senator Sam Slom. (The only Republican in the 25-member State Senate, by the way.)

    This man is now married to his fourth wife, having divorced the first three.

    "Traditional marriage"? IMOPO, this man is a hypocritical blowhard.

    Edit: I'm going to ask a question of the opponents of gay marriage, and I want an answer.

    Some opponents keep blabbing about Sodom and Gomorrah to compare. Now, if we assume for a minute that a single part of that story is based on historic fact (that is not an admission, as I still deny it is anything but an anything but an allegory) if I remember correctly, God destroyed the two cities because when He asked Abraham if he could name even ten virtuous people in either city, Abraham could not name even one.

    Now, I ask you. Among known gay rights activists (both gay themselves and straight) can you not name a single virtuous person? None who never committed any crime or immoral act, who never hurt anyone in his life? None who aren't known for charitable actions?

    We'll, just off the top of my head, I can name a few dozen among the celebrity community alone.
    Last edited by Maedar; 2nd November 2013 at 1:56 PM.

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    Well, ENDA has gotten all Democratic support from the Senate with Cory Booker being the most recent one co-sponsoring it. However, Heritage Foundation is against the bill.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4203134.html

    Heritage Action said Friday that the bill would "severely undermine civil liberties ... and trample on religious liberty" while potentially undermining job creation. The conservative organization called for a vote against the bill and said it would record the vote on its legislative scorecard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterna View Post
    They all delay the inevitable. Take heart that these radical proposals and outright bigotry are the death wails of a dying mindset.
    This is my favorite supportive thought I think about. It's very, very clear that homosexuality is going to become normalized. Years from now, the idea that homosexuality is wrong will be as silly as racism is to the up-and-coming generation of America--in fact, many young children already are bewildered by the intolerance of homosexuality today. Those who wish for homosexuals to be condemned are fighting the losing side, and will be on the wrong side of history 50 years from now. It is warming to be on the right side, but not surprising--I think our generation is going to be noted in history as the generation that accepted and celebrated differences in others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Well, ENDA has gotten all Democratic support from the Senate with Cory Booker being the most recent one co-sponsoring it. However, Heritage Foundation is against the bill.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4203134.html
    Well, of course they are.

    Also, "trample on religious liberty." Because discriminating against people is totally a cornerstone of religion. Religious people should hate these mother****ers too, honestly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    Dude.
    I don't give a crap what the government says about whether or not gays can marry. I am stating my own opinion. And just because they CAN marry legally, does not make it right.

    As I have said before, I would not treat a gay person any differently than a straight person, but I cannot condone their actions. So, even though I wouldn't treat them differently in a friendly setting, I cannot support gay marriage.
    Objection!

    You obviously would treat a gay person different from a straight person. You wouldn't accept a homosexual if they were married with someone they love. What is your reasoning behind why you think gay marriage is wrong? Religion? How you were raised? Do you think marriage should only be about procreation? Whatever your conviction is, future generations will look down upon you just like how most people look down upon those who thought that inter-racial marriage was wrong.
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    As ENDA is getting enough votes to pass in the Senate, John Boehner opposes it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...p_ref=politics

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    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    I haven't really watched the show all the way through, but I know the general premise.

    I would appreciate it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I never said that I thought that gays should be put to death. As I have said (many times) before, I treat gay people no differently that straight people. But that does not mean that I condone their actions. Its like in the abortion debate, while I think abortion is wrong and I myself would not approve of one, I wouldn't treat the people who fight for "women rights" any differently, But when the subject turned to abortion, that is when I would have to disagree with them.
    Your stance is a good one, so long as you honestly do not treat any homosexual differently than any heterosexual. Though perhaps the better word here is "any worse" rather than "differently." By wishing homosexuals to not be able to marry, you are fundamentally treating them differently than heterosexuals, who I assume you do wish to be able to marry. It's admirable that you choose to treat everyone equally, and we could use more people who regard others like this.

    However, it's important to note that there IS a difference in how one with a stance such as yours treats homosexuals and heterosexuals. I would say that I regard homosexuals and heterosexuals the same way because I feel that everyone should be able to marry. (Though, in my mind, homosexuality isn't even an issue anymore and so thoughts like, "oh, this person I'm talking to right now is gay" rarely cross my mind.) I wouldn't say someone who wishes rights to be denied to some and not to others to be treating everyone "the same."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    As ENDA is getting enough votes to pass in the Senate, John Boehner opposes it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...p_ref=politics
    He believes it'll cost American jobs. By not allowing people to be fired over sexual orientation. Right-o.

    That would be caused by gay people instead not being hired over their sexual orientation. Which is a problem that will work itself out when companies doing so see that nobody wants to work for them and that their profits are dropping like a stone.
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    Sorry to pop in randomly but I've been reading this topic a bit and just want to put my own two cents in.

    Quote Originally Posted by ansem the wise View Post
    I haven't really watched the show all the way through, but I know the general premise.

    I would appreciate it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I never said that I thought that gays should be put to death. As I have said (many times) before, I treat gay people no differently that straight people. But that does not mean that I condone their actions. Its like in the abortion debate, while I think abortion is wrong and I myself would not approve of one, I wouldn't treat the people who fight for "women rights" any differently, But when the subject turned to abortion, that is when I would have to disagree with them.

    You dont believe homosexuals deserve the same rights as straight people, like marriage! That's autmatically making you treat one group of people differently to another group of people.
    It annoys me when people quote a book written however many years ago for a start, but annoys me even more when they only pick parts of that book.

    Exodus 35:2 :
    "For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death."

    No one seems to insist THIS passage is kept to in the 21st Century.... so surely if you're going to sit there and condemn all homosexuals for all eternity because an old book tells you to, why aren't you insisting people who work on Sundays are killed?

    I hope this makes sense, I have a tendancy to bable and not make sense when I'm on a rant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccarts89 View Post
    Exodus 35:2 :
    "For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death."
    Yeah, I mention that a lot, and a lot of other silly things the Bible says (like how selling your daughter into slavery is okay) but I never get a straight answer from these people.

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