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Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #3601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Scared of his views? Lutz he's a backwoods hillbilly and he's nowhere near as friendly or funny as Jeb Clampet.. Why would you be afraid of a guy who'd can't even speak at the type of place that politicians tend to make speeches. (I don't care how much money he has, those places have rules about hygiene.)
    By firing him they are showing they are scared that continued employment with his views would damage A&E in essence they are scared of his views. Mind you A&E did not fire him because they are some great company they fired him to avoid bad publicity.

    And like I said, with Utah becoming number 17, the anti-gay movement is dying, and the war is over. You might as well try to keep debating the outcome of the 2008 elections at this point. It's just a matter of time before people like him are officially grouped with the Klan.

    Maybe that's why A&E fired him. They realize views are changing.
    Maybe but more than likely they didnot want a Don Imas like protest on their hands and at the end of the day it will cost them millions and the bigot and his family will continue to make millions more. All of this AND now we see gay groups DIDNT want him to be fired thus making A&E's decision look even worse!

    No. It's because, like you said, it's the only show they have that anyone will watch. But they can only get so many viewers with four months of reruns.
    Thus you agree they did not do this for some big stand for gay rights they did it for fear of a protest and are willing to milk what they have dry
    Last edited by BigLutz; 21st December 2013 at 1:29 AM.

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    Fine, I'll admit it.

    True, they would have gotten atrocious negative press keeping him on the air, leading to them being condemned by the press, causing the show's ratings to plummet, making his contract a liability. Because most decent people - including myself - would be calling A&E supporters of hatred.

    And btw, Lutz, by any chance are YOU a fan of this show?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Fine, I'll admit it.

    True, they would have gotten atrocious negative press keeping him on the air, leading to them being condemned by the press, causing the show's ratings to plummet, making his contract a liability. Because most decent people - including myself - would be calling A&E supporters of hatred.

    And btw, Lutz, by any chance are YOU a fan of this show?
    No I am not a fan of the show, I do not have cable and when I did I stuck to Clone Wars and History Documentaries

    Btw the shows sponsors say they support him, and seeing how the show has a socially conservative bend to it I doubt they would lose viewership, if anything they would gain viewers for the train wreck factor which is what A&E was hoping for in the first place. Which means what ever network picks it up next will be very very rich.

    Honestly with it being the week before Christmas A&E could have probably done nothing other than a strong statement and gotten away with it because by the time people start paying attention to the news again this whole thing will be over with
    Last edited by BigLutz; 21st December 2013 at 2:04 AM.

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    The law should not be in anyway influenced by religion as it is unjust to enforce your beliefs on others.

    I feel like the subject of "gay" follows to close to other things such as gender/race equality in that if you are firing stuff about it all over the place and throwing parades or what have you for these spesific groups of people you are not treating them equaly but differently and personaly I just think people of any group just want to be able to live normal lives rather then have stuff about them (good or bad) shoved out in droves.
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    While I'd like to keep posting about some dude from Louisiana equating homosexuality to bestiality while hosting a show about tricking ducks into thinking people want to bang them, I'd much rather report that Utah is state number 18!

    A federal judge ruled Utah’s ban on same-sex marriages unconstitutional Friday, writing in his opinion that it “perpetuates inequality.”

    “The State’s current laws deny its gay and lesbian citizens their fundamental right to marry and, in so doing, demean the dignity of these same-sex couples for no rational reason,” Judge Robert J. Shelby, of the United States District Court for the District of Utah, wrote in his opinion. “Accordingly, the court finds that these laws are unconstitutional.”

    Another southwestern state, New Mexico, became the 17th state to allow same-sex marriage on Thursday, when its Supreme Court ruled a ban there unconstitutional as well.
    I wonder what the usual suspects think of this UNELECTED TYRANNY
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    Madden, when they agree to put gun control laws and abortion rights laws on the ballot too (along with voter ID laws and every other controversial subject) then I'll agree to vote on gay marriage.

    Until then, the Courts interpret the law. That's the way it is.

    END OF STORY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Madden, when they agree to put gun control laws and abortion rights laws on the ballot too (along with voter ID laws and every other controversial subject) then I'll agree to vote on gay marriage.

    Until then, the Courts interpret the law. That's the way it is.

    END OF STORY.
    Bring them onto the ballot and let the people decide, any Libertarian would welcome such a thing

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    Lutz, let me explain something to you; elections are supposed to be for elected officials.

    NOT laws, and NOT concepts.

    Sure, the idea of letting the citizens vote on everything would be great. I'd love the chance to vote on Congress' salaries, and on filibuster reform, and I would have loved to cast my vote against Citizens United.

    But the whole reason we have a Congress and a Supreme Court (and a President for that matter) is to avoid that and save time. If the whole country had to vote on every issue, it would take forever.

    Know what the "Bleeding Kansas" incident was? Look it up. That's an example of something that happened when your idea was put into practice and people were determined to get the outcome they wanted.

    I know you people want "small government", but you're being ridiculous. This is the whole reason why the Articles of Confederation failed; the government it created was too small and incapable of governing.

    And I'd still love to see where it says in the Constitution that we're supposed to vote on laws. This was not a law being passed in Utah, furthermore. It was a law struck down as unconstitutional, due to the repeal of DOMA.
    Last edited by Maedar; 21st December 2013 at 3:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Lutz, let me explain something to you; elections are supposed to be for elected officials.

    NOT laws, and NOT concepts.

    Sure, the idea of letting the citizens vote on everything would be great. I'd love the chance to vote on Congress' salaries, and on filibuster reform, and I would have loved to cast my vote against Citizens United.

    But the whole reason we have a Congress and a Supreme Court (and a President for that matter) is to avoid that and save time. If the whole country had to vote on every issue, it would take forever.

    Know what the "Bleeding Kansas" incident was? Look it up. That's an example of something that happened when your idea was put into practice and people were determined to get the outcome they wanted.

    I know you people want "small government", but you're being ridiculous. This is the whole reason why the Articles of Confederation failed; the government it created was too small and incapable of governing.
    You know we have ballot measures and other state and local laws that are placed up to vote by the populous. I have no problem putting controversial issues up for a vote or letting state congresses vote on them. I honestly believe people will choose the right choice if given the chance.

    For example Texas voted overwhelmingly in banning gay marriage

    http://www.redorbit.com/news/politic..._gay_marriage/

    Do I agree with the voters decision? No, but I respect it and would gladly campaign to change hearts and minds on it than to have a court decide


    And I'd still love to see where it says in the Constitution that we're supposed to vote on laws. This was not a law being passed in Utah, furthermore. It was a law struck down as unconstitutional, due to the repeal of DOMA.
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
    Last edited by BigLutz; 21st December 2013 at 3:42 AM.

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    I am gay so what I have to say is more on my experience. Gays also discriminate and seperate themselves.

    While we might see many advocacy groups trying to win the battle for acceptance and equality, a very huge part of me still feels alone in the gay community, and discussing this with others, they would agree with me too. I consider this separation: Casual Gays Vs. Stereotypical Gays.

    The majority of gay men are stereotypical. When I see gay men in media or other social gatherings, many say that they want equality but yet the majority of them have no respect for the community that they are fighting for. You can go to any social event where gay men are generally and the moment you walk into a room, you are automatically judged. It is sad but I can almost "hear" what they are saying: Is he feminine or masculine? Is he a top or bottom? Lets count all the flaws he has, etc. This is how gay men are, they are very judgmental with each other and yet we all want equality? I dont understand this at all, how can we battle for equality when even in the gay community we are separated? So many of them are very immature, and I know that my comments may seem bitter, but that is only for the fact that I have been the victim to many hate and discrimination within my very own community.

    While it would be great for the community to gain equality 100% (and I know that eventually this will happen, I mean, it just really frustrates me that there are people out there who are so negative to somebody else's sexual preference as if it is really anyone else's business in the first place) I do hope that they gay community would start to learn to respect each other more because even growing up, yes I was bullied and yes I did feel alone and scared. I thought becoming an adult and being able to be myself more freely would make me happy, but I find a hard time even trying to find happiness within such a judgmental and discriminative community. Society is growing, lets just hope they do too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
    Fine. The word "vote" is not in that sentence at all. Does "reserved by it to the States" means they vote on it?

    The Utah supreme court made the ruling, so the state decided. Seems legit to me.

    And please do not post eight-year-old links to prove your point. That's called necro-linking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Fine. The word "vote" is not in that sentence at all. Does "reserved by it to the States" means they vote on it?

    The Utah supreme court made the ruling, so the state decided. Seems legit to me.
    By reserved to the states it is talking about State Congress and the People, you said it yourself they are the ones that make the laws. What I can't understand however is your recent turnabout on having Gay Marriage as a ballot measure.

    You previously said this: Madden, when they agree to put gun control laws and abortion rights laws on the ballot too (along with voter ID laws and every other controversial subject) then I'll agree to vote on gay marriage.

    I am in perfect agreement with that, yet when I say I agree with you, you are suddenly against the idea. Was that a lie? Or do you just refuse to come to an agreement with me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    And please do not post eight-year-old links to prove your point. That's called necro-linking.
    The link was to be used as an example of a State Proposition to pass or ban gay marriage, so far I see nothing that is out of date with it, propositions are still passed in a similar manner, and your argument that people do not vote on laws is null and void.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    By firing him they are showing they are scared that continued employment with his views would damage A&E in essence they are scared of his views. Mind you A&E did not fire him because they are some great company they fired him to avoid bad publicity.
    Where's your source for this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grei View Post
    Where's your source for this?
    My view is based on two things

    A: They are still running the series and selling his gear with him staring in it, if they truly were doing this in support of Gays, they would drop the show immediately and contribute some obscene amount of money to GLAAD or another gay group.
    B: From Martin Bashir, to Don Imas, to Paula Dean, to Alex Baldwin, networks tend to drop controversial stars as fast as possible to avoid any possible backlash.
    Last edited by BigLutz; 21st December 2013 at 4:55 AM.

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    So the irony is, the Mormon Church although they officially announced the end of their crusade against LGBT communities, was the one that funded millions to Prop 8 in CA. Then now, Utah's same-sex marriage ban has been overturned. That's karma for the Utah conservatives.

    But you know who we should thank for this ruling? Justice Scalia.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/can-u...-marriage-ban/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    But you know who we should thank for this ruling? Justice Scalia.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/can-u...-marriage-ban/
    yeah I damn near went into a coma from laughing when I read that part of the decision

    (it's going to be even funnier if it winds up overturning every state constitutional ban still on the books, and it probably will if this one gets appealed to the SCOTUS since unlike Windsor the judge explicitly didn't narrowly focus the decision)
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    Need to be honest I didn't think we'd see same sex marriage here for at least another five more years.

    Still a nice surprise a hopefully it can last, and all the protesters going around over truing it won't get anywhere.

    L.F.D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    My view is based on two things

    A: They are still running the series and selling his gear with him staring in it, if they truly were doing this in support of Gays, they would drop the show immediately and contribute some obscene amount of money to GLAAD or another gay group.
    B: From Martin Bashir, to Don Imas, to Paula Dean, to Alex Baldwin, networks tend to drop controversial stars as fast as possible to avoid any possible backlash.
    I'll repeat Grei's question, where's your source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    So the irony is, the Mormon Church although they officially announced the end of their crusade against LGBT communities, was the one that funded millions to Prop 8 in CA. Then now, Utah's same-sex marriage ban has been overturned. That's karma for the Utah conservatives.

    But you know who we should thank for this ruling? Justice Scalia.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/can-u...-marriage-ban/
    Indeed. Shakespeare would call that being "hoisted on his own petard".

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    I am in perfect agreement with that, yet when I say I agree with you, you are suddenly against the idea. Was that a lie? Or do you just refuse to come to an agreement with me?
    Apparently, you didn't understand the sarcastic nature of my comment, Lutz. I said it in an attempt to make you realize how silly your idea of voting for everything - and abolishing the Supreme Court entirely - sounded, noting that we can't do it. Sadly, it didn't sink in.
    Last edited by Maedar; 21st December 2013 at 11:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitsuhoney View Post
    The majority of gay men are stereotypical. When I see gay men in media or other social gatherings, many say that they want equality but yet the majority of them have no respect for the community that they are fighting for. You can go to any social event where gay men are generally and the moment you walk into a room, you are automatically judged. It is sad but I can almost "hear" what they are saying: Is he feminine or masculine? Is he a top or bottom? Lets count all the flaws he has, etc. This is how gay men are, they are very judgmental with each other and yet we all want equality? I dont understand this at all, how can we battle for equality when even in the gay community we are separated? So many of them are very immature, and I know that my comments may seem bitter, but that is only for the fact that I have been the victim to many hate and discrimination within my very own community.
    1) How do you know that the majority of gay men are stereotypical? The reality of the situation is that gay is not visually recognizable like a race. You might think that the majority of gay men are stereotypical, but it could very well just be that those are the only ones you are aware of.

    2)That being said, equality is given, not because the majority of the group "earns" it, but because they are human beings and FUNDAMENTALLY equal.

    3) The reality of the situation is you are being just as judgmental against them as you claim they are being against each other. So do you not deserve equality either?

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    @Everyone
    They knew the risks of hiring them. Thats why they hired them, for their family values. Since they fired him for having views against gays, shouldn't Ellen be fired for having views for it?
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...rches/0Kw8LKfX

    Everybody, sign this. Churches need to be taxed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyuremFreeze View Post
    @Everyone
    They knew the risks of hiring them. Thats why they hired them, for their family values. Since they fired him for having views against gays, shouldn't Ellen be fired for having views for it?
    No, because she did NOT say any bigoted remarks towards any minority group tied to her beliefs in a public settings. There's a big difference.

    And "family values"? A bunch of smelly hillbillies have "family values"?

    Right. Jeb Clampet did, Dick Tracy's friends B.O. Plenty and Gravel Gertie did, but in reality, very few guys like that do.

    Taking a bath once in a while might help them towards that end.
    Last edited by Maedar; 21st December 2013 at 1:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    No, because she did NOT say any bigoted remarks towards any minority group tied to her beliefs in a public settings. There's a big difference.

    And "family values"? A bunch of smelly hillbillies have "family values"?

    Right. Jeb Clampet did, Dick Tracy's friends B.O. Plenty and Gravel Gertie did, but in reality, very few guys like that do.

    Taking a bath once in a while might help them towards that end.
    She voices her beliefs and doesnt get fired, while he voices his and does.

    Yes, family values. Because they actualy care for their family.

    Sorry, i didnt know that soap and water changed your views on gays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyuremFreeze View Post
    She voices her beliefs and doesnt get fired, while he voices his and does.
    There is a BIG difference between voicing my beliefs and making bigoted remarks. Especially when you're (voluntarily or otherwise) the face of a company.

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    Look, I'd like to add something to this if you don't mind. (Or even if you do...)

    There was once a time where saying what Phil said was not only considered bad, it was considered downright RUDE. Parents would wash their children's mouths out with soap, and you'd be kicked out of public places for cussing like that.

    In some places, cussing in public isn't allowed. Know that crime the P. Riot girls were charged with, "hooliganism"? They can charge you with that in Russia if you cuss in public, and you can be fined or spend a week in jail for doing so.

    And in some OTHER countries they'll cut your tongue out for doing so.

    "Family values". Right. A foul-mouthed cretin like that is not someone I want today's youth to see as a wholesome role-model. It's amazing that this sort of behavior is tolerated and accepted now by anyone, much less encouraged.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyuremFreeze View Post
    She voices her beliefs and doesnt get fired, while he voices his and does.
    Right, because Ellen making jokes about her sexual orientation is exactly like saying "the first thing you see coming out of them is gross sexual immorality. They will dishonor their bodies with one another, degrade each other." in reference to homosexuality and you're not at all making a false equivalence.

    Quote Originally Posted by KyuremFreeze View Post
    Yes, family values. Because they actualy care for their family.
    Yes, family values, because as we all know those are objective values and non-heterosexuals can't practice them. It's in the Bible!

    (Matthew 16:10 specifically points out that "family values are exclusive to straights", don'tcha know?)

    Quote Originally Posted by KyuremFreeze View Post
    Sorry, i didnt know that soap and water changed your views on gays.
    Living in First World conditions, on the other hand, generally does.

    (And I'm not talking about their hygiene.)
    Last edited by John Madden; 21st December 2013 at 3:30 PM.
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