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Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #3651

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    Got it. So anyone that does not support homosexuality is a bigot.

    So what is the point of this debate thread if it as cut and dried as that?

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    I don't know, if someone said black people shouldn't get married because they're different, would they be a bigot?

  3. #3653

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    No no no. We aren't dodging the question.
    What is the point of this thread if being opposed to homosexulity automatically makes you a bigot? Seems pretty onesided. That isn't a debate

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    Well the title is homosexuality and politics, so it's more about how this stuff relates to politics, states giving rights to vote, should it be a entire country vs states things, things like that. Blindly being discriminatory isn't allowed here or any part of the forums.

  5. #3655

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    Not supporting/being against homosexuality is not being blindly discriminatory. I don't hate homosexuals. I'm not a homophobe. I simply do not agree with their lifestyle. There are two sides to this argument, hence the reason why there is still opposition to legalizing things such as gay marriage. Calling one side bigots because they don't agree with the other is wrong
    Last edited by Lugia's Chosen; 22nd December 2013 at 7:43 AM.

  6. #3656
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    There are two sides to a lot of arguments, doesn't mean both sides are equal. I mean in a country where we have separation of church and state and promise equal rights for all, why should we give equal precedent to the side that puts blind devotion to religion forcing it on other people instead? You can try and spin it any way you want, but there's no way you don't come off as discriminatory here, if you don't want a group to have equal rights as someone else when it doesn't negatively affect you in the slightest.

  7. #3657

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    I'll agree to disagree and quit this debate that disallows the opposing viewpoint

    This is not debate.

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    News at 11: Forum in 2013 doesn't allow discriminating viewpoints.

    There is a very good reason why you shouldn't take the bible literally, and that's mostly because they cut the book where Jesus talks to the dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugia's Chosen View Post
    That wasn't the comment quoted (which is the one I was talking about), but thanks for cherry picking out of context of the quoted comment and the thread to try and make me look bad.

    For the record I do not agree with that part of Phil's interview and I think it was out of line. Everyone has careless words from time to time. I do not believe blacks were happier before civil rights
    And like I said before, Lugia, I not only think it was out of line, I think it was just plain rude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugia's Chosen View Post
    Not supporting/being against homosexuality is not being blindly discriminatory. I don't hate homosexuals. I'm not a homophobe. I simply do not agree with their lifestyle. There are two sides to this argument, hence the reason why there is still opposition to legalizing things such as gay marriage. Calling one side bigots because they don't agree with the other is wrong
    In summary:

    Geez, why can't I discriminate against people without being called a jerk!? It's so unfair! Why isn't my It's-my-religion shield protecting me from criticism?!

    Also homophobia is not merely "fear" or "dislike" of gay people, but also includes discrimination against them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    In summary:

    Geez, why can't I discriminate against people without being called a jerk!? It's so unfair! Why isn't my It's-my-religion shield protecting me from criticism?!

    Also homophobia is not merely "fear" or "dislike" of gay people, but also includes discrimination against them.
    True. I'm willing to bet folks are wondering just why the vengeful hand of God hasn't smote their detractors with bolts of lightning yet.

    Lugia, this is America. You can't use religion as an excuse for criticism. As I've said before, in our government, what the Constitution says is law, and what the Bible says is considered no more of a mitigating factor than the stuff in Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.

    In fact... If I go right up to the steps of Capitol Hill, hold the Bible high in the air, and then throw in the a public trash receptacle and say it had as much value there as any of the other garbage in it, I would defy anyone to stop me.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    In fact... If I go right up to the steps of Capitol Hill, hold the Bible high in the air, and then throw in the a public trash receptacle and say it had as much value there as any of the other garbage in it, I would defy anyone to stop me.
    I'd tell you to do it with a Koran instead and watch the reactions from that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    I'd tell you to do it with a Koran instead and watch the reactions from that.
    Would there be reactions from that? This is Capitol Hill, the land of rich white people, we're talking about. Might be more effective to do it with their holy text, you know? More of a statement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    Would there be reactions from that? This is Capitol Hill, the land of rich white people, we're talking about. Might be more effective to do it with their holy text, you know? More of a statement.
    A lot of the people that would ignore the Bible getting thrown in the trash, (performance art, political statement, etc) would freak out at the same being done to a Koran. It'd be a hate crime to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    I'd tell you to do it with a Koran instead and watch the reactions from that.
    If Bachman and Cruz and their Confederate flag-waving goons were watching, I'd likely get cheers.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

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  16. #3666

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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    A lot of the people that would ignore the Bible getting thrown in the trash, (performance art, political statement, etc) would freak out at the same being done to a Koran. It'd be a hate crime to them.
    Specifically our president who makes such a point of trying to make nice with Muslims

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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    A lot of the people that would ignore the Bible getting thrown in the trash, (performance art, political statement, etc) would freak out at the same being done to a Koran. It'd be a hate crime to them.
    Not equivalent, discrimination against christians isn't a real problem in the US (in other parts of the world where christians are a minority, sure, but not in the US), discrimination against muslims is a problem in the US.

    Also before someone else gets offended because I "think discrimination is ok".

    There is a difference between problematic behavior and social problems.

    The occasional discrimination against majority groups, is wrong, yes. But it isn't a social problem that needs to be addressed. Majority groups aren't disenfranchised (however much they may enjoy thinking they are). Like I said before, a redneck, a christian, a man, straight person, can walk away from places they are discriminated against. However, a black person, a muslim, a woman, or a gay person can't just walk away from being discriminated against. The safe spaces for the first group of people are most of the spaces, the safe spaces for the second group of people are far between.

    Some forms of discrimination have very real consequences. Other forms of discrimination are just rude. If you can't tell the difference between the two, you should probably check your privilege.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    A lot of the people that would ignore the Bible getting thrown in the trash, (performance art, political statement, etc) would freak out at the same being done to a Koran. It'd be a hate crime to them.
    And a lot of people that would freak out about the Bible getting thrown in the trash would cheer on the same being done to a Koran, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here aside from "religious cheerleading is stupid"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugia's Chosen View Post
    Specifically our president who makes such a point of trying to make nice with Muslims
    I see the "inclusiveness is bad" brigade has finally made their way over to this American Forensic Association-sanctioned paragon of internet debate.
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  19. #3669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugia's Chosen View Post
    Specifically our president who makes such a point of trying to make nice with Muslims
    He wants peace with Iran.

    Unlike the hawks in Congress who didn't learn from the two pointless wars where our soldiers were slaughtered and think that invading them like some stupid Leeroy Jenkins is a better idea.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

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  20. #3670

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    you know what, my bad. off topic

    PS: To all the cowards hiding behind the reputation system, why not be be a man and put your name on the flaming comments you are posting on my profile. Your posts there would not be acceptable on the open forum, so you really shouldn't be posting them there either.
    Last edited by Lugia's Chosen; 22nd December 2013 at 5:53 PM.

  21. #3671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    Not equivalent, discrimination against christians isn't a real problem in the US (in other parts of the world where christians are a minority, sure, but not in the US), discrimination against muslims is a problem in the US.
    How many incidents of discrimination does it take to become a "real problem?"

    Also before someone else gets offended because I "think discrimination is ok".
    It does appear that you think discrimination against a group is okay if they are a larger group in some manner. They don't have "real problems" after all.

    There is a difference between problematic behavior and social problems.
    n How do you distinguis between the two?
    The occasional discrimination against majority groups, is wrong, yes. But it isn't a social problem that needs to be addressed.
    Says you. All discrimination needs to be addressed when it happens. Not when it grows to be the bigger problem.

    Majority groups aren't disenfranchised (however much they may enjoy thinking they are). Like I said before, a redneck, a christian, a man, straight person, can walk away from places they are discriminated against.
    Groups that are majority groups nationwide are not always the majority group locally. And many people can't afford to walk away from jobs, nor can they move to where they "may" be benefited.

    However, a black person, a muslim, a woman, or a gay person can't just walk away from being discriminated against.
    And there seem to be laws that protect those groups while they don't seem to protect the straight, white Christian.

    The safe spaces for the first group of people are most of the spaces, the safe spaces for the second group of people are far between.
    Hardly. While there are people who do engage in discrimination against the second group, the media covers it, special interest groups fight for justice for them and people decry it as shameful and get angry. The first group? Gets ignored or downplayed. Black man attacked by white man? Racism. White man attacked by black man? Almost never racism. Gay guy murdered by straight guy during a robbery gone bad? Homophobia. Stragiht guy gets murdered during similar robbery? No one checks to see if the attacker was gay. Women lose their jobs during recession? Sexism. Men lose more jobs during recession? It's the recession.
    Don't have employees from group X? Racism/sexism etc.

    Claiming "privilege" is a load of horse manure.

    Some forms of discrimination have very real consequences. Other forms of discrimination are just rude. If you can't tell the difference between the two, you should probably check your privilege.[/QUOTE]
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    And there seem to be laws that protect those groups while they don't seem to protect the straight, white Christian.
    Ok, this is the only part I'm even going to bother adressing, because people seem to think that all discrimination is overt.

    Now, talking specifically about homophobia (not race, not gender, not religion), because that is what this thread is for.

    Straight people:

    Can hold hands in the street without having to worry for their safety (whether or not the law protects you is irrelevant because if the person that beats you up gets thrown in jail, guess what, you still got beat up)

    Don't have to constantly answer intrusive questions about their sex-life (So, are you a top or a bottom?)

    Straight people don't have to constantly defend their gender (Oh, but you're gay so you don't count as a guy/girl)

    Straight people don't have to worry about having their hobbies stereotyped (Oh you're gay? You must love Musical theatre)

    Straight people don't have to worry about becoming anyone's "pet gay" (I get it, you're trying to be supportive, but you're not actually being supportive)

    Straight people don't have to worry about their parents telling them to tell people their partner is their "friend".

    These are all different subtle forms of discrimination specifically because you are gay (bolded because this is extrememely important). Or are you proposing that these things be made illegal?

  23. #3673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugia's Chosen View Post
    Not supporting/being against homosexuality is not being blindly discriminatory. I don't hate homosexuals. I'm not a homophobe. I simply do not agree with their lifestyle. There are two sides to this argument, hence the reason why there is still opposition to legalizing things such as gay marriage. Calling one side bigots because they don't agree with the other is wrong
    However, that some people don't agree with homosexual lifestyle doesn't mean that they shouldn't get married. Everyone is entitled to love and a family, and I don't think that's anything to vote about. I don't understand why people have the right to decide whether other people can get married or not. Everyone should be free to do it, specially when homosexuality isn't anything you choose. It just isn't fair that only because they were born different they can't marry the person they love. They don't hurt anyone by doing it. And when this comes to the subject of children, it's false that children raised by homosexuals will be homosexual. But so what if they do? They're people too. And a kid can definitely grow happy without a mother or a father. It's all about a stable familiar environment and affection from their loved ones.
    Last edited by DannyDirnt; 22nd December 2013 at 6:33 PM.

  24. #3674

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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyDirnt View Post
    However, that some people don't agree with homosexual lifestyle doesn't mean that they shouldn't get married. Everyone is entitled to love and a family, and I don't think that's anything to vote about. I don't understand why people have the right to decide whether other people can get married or not. Everyone should be free to do it, specially when homosexuality isn't anything you choose. It just isn't fair that only because they were born different they can't marry the person they love.
    According to homosexuals. It hasn't been proven without a doubt that it is something you are born with. To me it is a choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugia's Chosen View Post
    According to homosexuals. It hasn't been proven without a doubt that it is something you are born with. To me it is a choice.
    I am homosexual myself. I assure you I didn't want to be. I tried to fight it. I tried to hate it. I tried to love women. But I simply couldn't. So I assure you that ISN'T a choice AT ALL. I didn't choose to be discriminated. I didn't choose to have to come out of the closet. I didn't choose to have a hard time. I didn't choose not to be able to have kids by myself. I didn't choose that my rights are debatable. And so on.

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