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Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb08045 View Post
    Valid points, but to be honest I still don't see the harm. When people use 'gay' as an insult, it's usually for an object, or event. If the majority of people used it to actually insult homosexuals, then that is when I think it's over the line. I'm not saying people don't use it like that, I'm pretty sure when people do, they don't mean any harm to gay people.
    I've heard the word "gay" spoken to other people as an insult plenty of times.

    And even so, it's still wrong to describe an object as "stupid" by using the word "gay" when a person who is gay is not automatically "stupid." You're using a negative to describe a human being. That's like using "retard" to describe a race of people. It's derogatory and not progressive in the slightest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    People are too politically correct nowadays, and no one knows how to accept anyone else's opinions nowadays, I can tolerate gays, but that's not enough for some people, they expect me to bow to them or something. F no. I'll be tolerant, and they should be happy with that.
    Don't like it? Oh well, it's my opinion, not yours.
    I wish I could remember the quotation that would fit right here...

    Frankly, I apologize if I expect better of people in general. I see no error in expecting people to do more than just "average." Tolerance is average. Anyone can tolerate something they don't like. I would never be happy with simply tolerance, unless that tolerance was temporary and the tolerant person was striving to be a better person than just a "tolerant person." Quite honestly, simply settling for tolerance and leaving it at that is taking the easy way out, and is doing nothing towards progressing anyone towards bettering themselves.

    Of course, I'm not going to force you to not be lazy. I'm simply saying that you're wrong to expect others to be happy with mediocrity.

    Also, I agree with Double A:

    Quote Originally Posted by Double A View Post
    "Get out of my face" is not tolerance.
    Indeed, far from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyter09 View Post
    You guys thought you had this debate pegged right? You thought "Oh they BORN that way" or "Oh, Some traumatic event happened that Made em THAT way"....

    Think again!
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk3%7C110998

    What do you think now huh?
    First off, your post claims that those who say trauma creates homosexuality are wrong, but this article states that the trauma of a stroke made this man homosexual. :/

    Second, the characteristics of a single case study are not indicative of an entire population. This is true across pretty much all fields. There are multiple different individual things that influence our minds, our personalities, etc. The proposal that a stroke turned a heterosexual man into a homosexual man is very peculiar in this case, but ultimately doesn't have to mean anything towards the general population. I've never had a stroke, yet I'm gay, so until this case proves some further connection about homosexuality, I'm not sure it really means anything.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    they expect me to bow to them or something.
    ...What? Where on earth did you get this from? Gay people don't want to be bowed to, don't be ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    All I said was that I hate it being in the media all the time, I don't mind gays in the media, I don't want to hear ABOUT gays in the media. Like "Old announcer reveals he's gay!" good for him, "Man comes out on national TV!" good for him, what are you doing with this?

    Let's say there are two guys that work for a TV company and their getting married, I have no problem with them announcing it on TV, they would do the same for straight people getting married. What I have a problem with is turning on the TV and hearing about it all the time. I'd do the same if it had something to do with OWS, immigration reform, anti-racism parades, etc. I support all of those, but I'd be completely sick of hearing about them every second.
    But...it's not in the news every second. There's been no coming out stories in the news for ages here. Celebrity coming out stories are understandable. They live their lives in the public eye, they can't keep it absecret forever.

    but why should they get their 15 minutes of fame simply for being gay? Don't they want to be treated the same?
    Nobody gets fifteen minutes of fame for coming out. The only times coming out stories are on the news is when it's a celebrity. People come out every day, it's never televised.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyter09 View Post
    You guys thought you had this debate pegged right? You thought "Oh they BORN that way" or "Oh, Some traumatic event happened that Made em THAT way"....

    Think again!
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk3%7C110998

    What do you think now huh?
    I may be reading your tone wrong but I have to say I'm a little confused about what your views are. This post comes off condescending and negative but your later one comes off as the complete opposite.

    Anyway, I think that we are who we are because of how our brains work; this includes how we let our environment affect and mold us. There have been documented cases of brain trauma such as strokes drastically changing a persons personality. There are cases of tumors changing personalities in both people and animals. Our sexual preference being one factor of our personality certainly could be altered due to brain trauma but it is only one factor. It does not mean that every homosexual has brain damages. The article itself says Birch found he had no interest in Rugby anymore and found little in common with his friends and family. So he did not just become gay and have nothing else about himself change; his whole personality was altered.
    Last edited by ChedWick; 9th November 2011 at 8:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    About 97% of these women posing for pornographic pictures are held at gunpoint, and it can be anywhere. The majority of the time is by force.
    Lulz wat?

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  4. #54
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    I think Nyter's tone was just excited, because he was sharing something unique. I don't remember anybody ever offering a case where a stroke made someone gay. XD

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  5. #55
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    LOL U guys I said what I said because to me this story was a BIG GAME CHANGER in this who gay debate. I am not saying anything against gays I am just taunting at the fact that some people go "Nature" and some people go "Nurture"...

    And then I posts the news up and then I would laugh to see everyone's face go "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?"

    Don't have a cow. Like Mah dude above said... I was excited and being obnoxious because it was something unique to bring to the debate table...

    I AM IN NO WAY IMPLYING THAT ONE MUST HAVE A STROKE TO BE GAY! Critical thinking next time PLEASE!
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyter09 View Post
    LOL U guys I said what I said because to me this story was a BIG GAME CHANGER in this who gay debate. I am not saying anything against gays I am just taunting at the fact that some people go "Nature" and some people go "Nurture"...

    And then I posts the news up and then I would laugh to see everyone's face go "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?"

    Don't have a cow. Like Mah dude above said... I was excited and being obnoxious because it was something unique to bring to the debate table...

    I AM IN NO WAY IMPLYING THAT ONE MUST HAVE A STROKE TO BE GAY! Critical thinking next time PLEASE!
    Nature vs. Nurture debates are on going; I don't think it will be resolved my our lifetime. My reaction to the article was more 'so?' rather than shock and aw. Any comments regarding a stroke being linked to homosexuality was more so directed at your question about what we thought and the article or rather the negative stigma that would likely surround the article since 'straight man + stroke=homosexual man' seemed to be the major focus; even if it was just for the sake of a curious title. Mind you critical thinking was used and displayed quite effectively.
    Last edited by ChedWick; 9th November 2011 at 9:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    About 97% of these women posing for pornographic pictures are held at gunpoint, and it can be anywhere. The majority of the time is by force.
    Lulz wat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    Wall of text.
    I'm sorry for assuming you were a homophobe solely on your words and without knowing all of your background information also.

    I understand what you mean by gays are getting treated more than equal. That's the problem I have with the feminist movement. They now just want women to be superior to men. I hate sexist phrases like. "You throw like a girl." or "Don't hit a girl." If women wanted to be equal, they would insist to pay for their own meals on dates.
    Jackpot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyter09 View Post
    You guys thought you had this debate pegged right? You thought "Oh they BORN that way" or "Oh, Some traumatic event happened that Made em THAT way"....

    Think again!
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk3%7C110998

    What do you think now huh?
    I think all the hot sweaty showers with ripped nude men probably had more to do with it.

    possibly

    @Marioguy:
    you are such a homophobe so sexist
    i can't believe you'd say that
    Last edited by mattj; 9th November 2011 at 10:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChedWick View Post
    Nature vs. Nurture debates are on going; I don't think it will be resolved my our lifetime. My reaction to the article was more 'so?' rather than shock and aw. Any comments regarding a stroke being linked to homosexuality was more so directed at your question about what we thought and the article or rather the negative stigma that would likely surround the article since 'straight man + stroke=homosexual man' seemed to be the major focus; even if it was just for the sake of a curious title. Mind you critical thinking was used and displayed quite effectively.
    Ahh now this is an answer... What I find peculiar is not only his "change" in sexuality, but in sense of style as well...

    It's like his whole life changed, and sexuality is a not immune to such a blow to the head (no pun intended).

    It baffles me!
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I'm sorry for assuming you were a homophobe solely on your words and without knowing all of your background information also.

    I understand what you mean by gays are getting treated more than equal. That's the problem I have with the feminist movement. They now just want women to be superior to men. I hate sexist phrases like. "You throw like a girl." or "Don't hit a girl." If women wanted to be equal, they would insist to pay for their own meals on dates.
    Shouldn't throw the word homophobe around, like I said.

    But what do you mean by saying the feminist movement wants women to be superior to men? More modern feminists are actually fine with going dutch on dates, and 'don't hit like a girl' and you 'you throw like a girl' are actually male phrases, not feminist ideas.

    My only problem with the contemporary feminst movement is what seems like their incredibly high standards for a completely non-sexist attitude. Some people who don't understand the purpose and application of feminism misuse it to make everyone feel miseraable. Still, it's very useful to have a high standard, because like Grei said, I don't think it's wrong to expect the very best in people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    All I said was that I hate it being in the media all the time, I don't mind gays in the media, I don't want to hear ABOUT gays in the media. Like "Old announcer reveals he's gay!" good for him, "Man comes out on national TV!" good for him, what are you doing with this? You are simply putting them in the target for bigots to bash and bash. Let's say there are two guys that work for a TV company and their getting married, I have no problem with them announcing it on TV, they would do the same for straight people getting married. What I have a problem with is turning on the TV and hearing about it all the time.
    Then the issue becomes that you are exaggerating how much TV time is dedicated to coming out of the closet.
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    I don't think the stroke story means anything, it is entirely possible it did cause a change, since strokes affect the brain, but it is also possible he was gay beforehand and just didn't want to admit it to himself or others and the stroke made him realize there are more important things.
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  13. #63
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    >Politics + Homosexuality
    >No mention of the kiddy fiddler who tried to run for Irish presidency

    Serebii, I am disappoint.


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    RazorXtreme:

    You say you're tolerant of homosexuals, and yet you want them to get out of your face and you're sick of them in the media. Slightly paradoxical, don't you think? If I want Africans out of my face and out of the media, then I wouldn't be tolerant. What makes you think you can do the same thing and get away clean?

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    Hating homosexuals is not racist and therefore not bad.

    Or, racism isn't bad either - Africans should get out of the media if they don't want so much negative attention.

    Either is a likely thought process.

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    No, hating homosexuals isn't racist; it's homophobic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    Razor Xtreme, you ask why gay people should get to go on TV just because they're coming out of the closet, which in your defense, I've seen, there's the airman and the newscaster I remember in recent history - but the fact is people view 'coming out' as a courageous thing to do, and that's why the get to be featured on TV. Aside from that, why shouldn't they? Is there a reason to keep people from getting more than they deserve? If some gay people get more publicity than they should from coming out of the closet, why exactly is that bad?

    And please do not take this thread or what anybody says in it personally. Unless you get physically sick whenever someone criticizes you, you don't need to flame anybody who is impolite to you. It even says that at the beginning of my thread, "Repay insensitivity with politeness."
    Yeah I understand that, and I apologize for my flaming. It completely come out that day, I had a bad day, and I've always had a pet peeve for when people get mad over someone having a different opinion, so I just released. I sincerely apologize, my bad.
    Oh, and I agree that it's a brave thing to do, my main point is that if they put themselves into the spotlight over it, it leaves them open to bashing from bigots and etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I'm sorry for assuming you were a homophobe solely on your words and without knowing all of your background information also.

    I understand what you mean by gays are getting treated more than equal. That's the problem I have with the feminist movement. They now just want women to be superior to men. I hate sexist phrases like. "You throw like a girl." or "Don't hit a girl." If women wanted to be equal, they would insist to pay for their own meals on dates.
    Yeah I apologize for my way of handling it, if you can tell my last comment was far different from my other comments, I can be a dick when it's late here, apologies.

    and yeah, that's one of the problems I've had too, not just with gay people, also with racism, sexism, etc. Like, I have no problem treating everyone equal, I just hate when people expect more.
    I completely agree with your last 2 sentences/points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyter09 View Post
    You guys thought you had this debate pegged right? You thought "Oh they BORN that way" or "Oh, Some traumatic event happened that Made em THAT way"....

    Think again!
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk3%7C110998

    What do you think now huh?
    That doesn't mean anything. Homosexuality can happen many ways, don't you think that makes sense? I'm sure there are some people that just chose to be gay, some were born that way, some were exposed to stuff, etc. My friend was born a lesbian, but my other friend just decided to be gay. It can go either way, it isn't like, "The only way to be gay is by choosing" or etc.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    my other friend just decided to be gay. It can go either way
    Garbage. If that were true then you could decide to gay for the next week. I bet anything you can't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    I think all the hot sweaty showers with ripped nude men probably had more to do with it.

    possibly

    @Marioguy:
    you are such a homophobe so sexist
    i can't believe you'd say that
    That's not how becoming gay works. What's the point of telling you anything? You have such a deranged view on life that nothing will change your mind.

    I want women to be treated equally with men, and that somehow makes me sexist? You may want women to have authority and to be quiet like Timothy 2:12, but that's not how the world works.
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
    Garbage. If that were true then you could decide to gay for the next week. I bet anything you can't.
    Have you really thought in depth about that claim? How can you tell someone point-blank who says 'my friend decided to be gay' that this never happens? Sometimes personal tastes and comforts are built over time from positive reinforcement. And especially when you consider the pliancy of someone who is just discovering their sexuality. I always here this, "Okay, turn gay instantly, now, do it for a week' argument, but that's a fallacious challenge, because no change in taste happens instananeously. We can't choose to like something immediately, but if we have significant initiative to change our tastes, even just curiousity, we can do it. It will be a while before we actually acquire that taste. Someone can enjoy a health food diet that they hated when they first started it. But we had to have been interested acquiring that taste in the first place, so somebody having no interest in being homosexual at all would indeed not be, because their mind is not open to it. But that does not mean that it is impossible for someone to change orientations if they did choose to pursue such a change. Hypothetically. Food for thought.
    Last edited by CSolarstorm; 10th November 2011 at 2:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
    Garbage. If that were true then you could decide to gay for the next week. I bet anything you can't.
    Maybe not me personally, I grew up around a lot of girls and guys, but who knows what he grew up around?
    For all you know he could've grown up around nothing but men, he could've been raped, he could've been touched, you have no idea how his life could have been behind the scenes. Someone turning gay by choice can easily happen, it all depends on how they grew up. You don't know, you didn't live his life.



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    I think on a biophysical level gay people cannot achieve the same level of arousal or sexual image given an image of a person of the opposite sex no matter how hard they try/want to, and vice-versa.

    Unfortunately I can't find the link to that study.

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    See that's the thing though, studies can only get you so far, the only way anyone could know would be to get an honest answer out of every homosexual in the world and then make some sort of assumption, which still wouldn't be accurate.



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    If done correctly, studies can be extrapolated to be representative of the whole population. That is the idea behind statistics and the scientific method.

    Either way it shouldn't matter whether someone chooses to be gay or not. I don't believe it is a choice. If it were then frankly I don't understand why gays in places like Africa and the Middle East don't choose to be straight rather than endure the torture and mistreatment afforded to homosexuals there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    See that's the thing though, studies can only get you so far, the only way anyone could know would be to get an honest answer out of every homosexual in the world and then make some sort of assumption, which still wouldn't be accurate.
    And that's the problem with anecdotal evidence; you can present it, and then when people doubt it, you can say 'but you don't know anything about him/her' and make it irrefutable while not really giving anyone any details. That's why anecdotal evidence isn't really reliable.

    We can't throw out a possibility that it is not different for everyone. As I recall, the theory that homosexuality can be caused by rape is not really proved.

    There are two times when people usually experiment with homosexuality: as teenagers in middle or high school, where they learn that homosexuality exists so they want to know about it, and during their 40's in menopause (?) and andropause (male menopause), or in other words, when they first get their hormones, and then when they start losing them. In that category I put all the middle aged women men and women that expiriment with homosexuality. That's different than being 'gay' as we know it for their entire life. It's possible your friend 'chose to be gay' because he thinks he can choose.

    On the other hand, there is the Kinsey Scale, which is based on a principle that says everyone is gay to some degree.
    Last edited by CSolarstorm; 10th November 2011 at 2:51 AM.

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