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Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyter09 View Post
    ^ then how we gonna fend off homophobes and trolls?

    So say you are gay (if you aren't) and you are with your same sex partner and there is a five year old nearby... would you engage in a kiss with your partner in front of the 5 year old child?

    Would you not feel weird to be romantic in front of the child because the child may feel weird about it...?
    Im all for gays, but for a child it is normal to see say cinderella and the prince to kiss but NOT to see the prince and the axe man kiss.
    Like do y'all get me? Im not trying to censor gay intimacy but just keep it away from innocent eues who don't know todays debate.
    Well there is a certain level of decency that should be maintained in a public setting as well as in front children. I wouldn't expect a heterosexual couple to engaged in hot and sweaty lip action in front of a child just the same as I wouldn't expect a homosexual couple of it.

    I'm less than discrete about my affection for my g/f out in public but I maintain that decency when its necessary.

    As for normal, that's purely subjective. I get what you saying but for anyone wishing for equal rights for homosexual couples, even if they are not a homosexual themselves, must expect equality in every facet of society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    About 97% of these women posing for pornographic pictures are held at gunpoint, and it can be anywhere. The majority of the time is by force.
    Lulz wat?

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  2. #102
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    There's absolutely no reason wrong with being gay.It's your choice, and you shouldn't allow other people's opinion of your sexual preference influence you; it's not their call to make. Hatred against homosexuals in this modern day of age is pathetic. Gay people have every right to get married as straight people do. If they want to be happy with the person that they love and spend the rest of their lives with them then they shouldn't be deny marriage. Gay people aren't repulsive monsters, they're human beings like me or you. Every person on this planet is equal the moment they're both and their privileges shouldn't be ripped from them because they aren't attracted to females or males.

    What greatly upsets me is how some people are afraid to admit that they're gay. Instead of building up the courage they hide this fact for many years from their family and love ones. I totally understand though. This world is filled with malevolence.Some people just can't accept gay people into society so they feel the need to taunt them for being gay and often driving them to suicide
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  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
    ^ The idea of this thread was to have a debate that wasn't filled your ludicrous and immature posts.
    ...
    What you'll find is that religious texts are ultimately the source of essentially all bigotry. Humans are not xenophobic or homophobic by nature but many of us are naive and will believe anything we're told. Including that homosexuality is displeasing to an invisible, undetectable supernatural being who created a universe 13.8 billion light years wide but is personally perturbed by the behaviour of humans.
    But not yours apparently. The fact that you would generalize all religious texts in such a ridiculous way shows that you have never read, nor do you even have the simplest understanding of any of them. You have zero authority with which to judge any of them.

    History shows that humans are both xenophobic, and homophobic. They're liars. They kill and steal and look out only for their own. History shows that humans are wicked. Funny. Most religious texts mirror just that. Religious texts aren't the source of all bigotry. Humans are the source of all bigotry.

        Spoiler:- A sampling of the hatred, bigotry, xenophobia, and homophobia put forth by my religious text of choice::
    simply oozing with hatred, bigotry, and xenophobia

    Religious texts are not the source of hatred, bigotry, xenophobia, and homophobia. After reading portions of, and reading about most major religious texts, the core theme tends to always be love, peace, and compassion. In my estimation, most religious texts do not compel society to be less compassionate. They compel society to be more compassionate.

    This disturbing grudge that you have against religion in general, however, is a perfect example of bigotry at work.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyter09 View Post
    Quoted for truth...
    I don't believe censoring gay media from... media (I know weird) is correct, but I do believe in censoring it from children as many will blame other homosexuals for their children (if they are) being gay because they were somewhat exposed to it in their childhood...
    That way, they know everything Lady Gaga has been saying is spot on!
    On the contrary, I don't think allowing children to be exposed to both heterosexual role models and homosexual ones is such a bad thing.

    I know for a fact there are many, many homosexual individuals out there who are 80's and 90's children who wished that, in retrospect, they'd had that kind of indirect support for themselves, even if it was only a character they saw on TV for one episode of their favorite show. Everywhere you looked, it was heterosexuality being shoved down their throats.

    So, imagine a kid who just knows they're attracted to the same sex from a very early age, before they even really know what attraction is. Imagine they grow into a teen and it becomes further clear to them that the opposite sex is not attractive to them... and yet there's nowhere they can really go for support. Their parents might toss them out, or their siblings might tell their parents and cause unnecessary trouble; their friends might look at them funny; even their teachers and other mentor figures are never 100% trustworthy when it comes to coming out about it.

    Life like that can be hard, even more than the usual teenager's life is hard (for whatever you take "hard" to mean). But sometimes it can be the smallest, most seemingly insignificant things that keep those kids from doing something stupid to themselves or others -- even one single fictional character who is either openly gay or very heavily hinted to be interested in the same sex can become a pillar of inspiration for someone who needs to borrow that image of strength, enough to get them through tough times.

    And trust me, you don't know how many people, both who I know personally and who I have just seen admit it in passing, who wished they could've had something like that when they were at the age where it was most needed. Nowadays, it's becoming more and more common to find gay characters in fictional media, whether they're open about it or just very heavily hinted to be, enough for someone to jump to the conclusion without much doubt. But that's an extremely recent thing.

    I just... really don't see the problem if you have people of all three major orientations and on various places on the Kinsey scale who can at least give those kids enough hope to keep going. It's not like being exposed to both in their lifetime and being allowed to attach themselves to the one that most resonates with them is going to turn all the straight kids gay automatically, or make them question their sexuality and gender identity any more than they would during puberty. Heterosexuality will probably always be the majority no matter what, but being the majority doesn't mean it's okay for them to push around the remaining minority in turn.

    EDIT:

    Most religious texts mirror just that. Religious texts aren't the source of all bigotry. Humans are the source of all bigotry.
    I actually agree with this 100%.
    Last edited by Kaiserin; 11th November 2011 at 4:04 AM.


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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    But not yours apparently. The fact that you would generalize all religious texts in such a ridiculous way shows that you have never read, nor do you even have the simplest understanding of any of them. You have zero authority with which to judge any of them.
    You didn't read his next post, did you.

    Quote Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
    Certainly not. Fortunately there are people who read the Bible and treat it with rational consideration rather than blindly accepting its every word.

    All I said was that the books... catalyse, if you will, several flavours of bigotry (among other things good and bad) and human nature inevitably leads to people perpetuating those notions.
    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    simply oozing with hatred, bigotry, and xenophobia
    I see your cherry-picked messages of love and tolerance and raise you half of Leviticus. And if the Old Testament doesn't roll with you, equally-cherry-picked verses from the New Testament. Matthew 10:34-35, Matthew 13:41-42, and... oh, hell, every mention of hell, really.

    The Bible jumps back and forth between love and hate, tolerance and intolerance, etc. If calling it a harmful book of hatred and intolerance is ridiculous because it also has verses of love and tolerance, then I posit that this also works the other way around - that is, I posit that it is equally ridiculous to call the Bible a book of love, tolerance, and kindness because of the various verses promoting hatred and intolerance.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    This disturbing grudge that you have against religion in general, however, is a perfect example of bigotry at work.
    Again, read his next post.
    Last edited by J.T.; 11th November 2011 at 4:19 AM.
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  6. #106
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    Something that really gets under my skin is when people bash religion when talking about issues with homosexuality or etc. Trust me, we hate the WestBoro Church just as much as the next guy.
    Whether or not that relates to the subject is a different manner, but I'm just throwing it out there.



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    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    But not yours apparently. The fact that you would generalize all religious texts in such a ridiculous way shows that you have never read, nor do you even have the simplest understanding of any of them. You have zero authority with which to judge any of them.
    You cannot say that with certainty. In fact I regularly participate in religious traditions such as going to mass and I contribute to my local parish by providing musical services, which is more than I can so of many of "Christ's followers". As such, I hear the Bible regularly interpreted the way it was supposed to be, which is how I am so sure of myself.

    I have little else to add other than what J.T and Chedwick have already pointed out on my behalf, but I will say this:

    Humans are the source of all bigotry.
    I suppose you are technically right seeing as at the end of the day the Bible and all other religious texts were written by humans.

    BUT, if what you are saying is true then you are simply at a loss to explain why every argument in favour of some bigoted proposition invariably boils down to a religious premise.

    You can refute my claim by providing me with an example of bigotry in action that didn't have a fundamentally religious ideal at its core.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    Something that really gets under my skin is when people bash religion when talking about issues with homosexuality or etc. Trust me, we hate the WestBoro Church just as much as the next guy.
    Whether or not that relates to the subject is a different manner, but I'm just throwing it out there.
    Nobody was talking about the Westboro Baptist Church. They're not the only ones that condemn homosexuals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.T. View Post
    You didn't read his next post, did you.
    Sure did. Although he backpeddled it was just as bigoted.
    I see your cherry-picked messages of love and tolerance and raise you several cherry picked, out of context verses
    lol no.
    The Bible jumps back and forth between love and hate, tolerance and intolerance, etc. If calling it a harmful book of hatred and intolerance is ridiculous because it also has verses of love and tolerance, then I posit that this also works the other way around - that is, I posit that it is equally ridiculous to call the Bible a book of love, tolerance, and kindness because of the various verses promoting hatred and intolerance.
    I have no problem acknowledging that the Bible instructs us to hate and not tolerate the things it labels as sin. You, on the other hand, seem to choke at the idea of acknowledging the positive impacts it and other religious texts have had on society. Regardless, the original point stands that to say that the Bible and other religious texts are the source of all things wrong with society is shockingly idiotic.
    Again, read his next post.
    Oh I definitely did.

  10. #110
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    No, but they're the ones where people get the general idea of religion hating on homosexuals.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    No, but they're the ones where people get the general idea of religion hating on homosexuals.
    No. That would be Leviticus.
    Jackpot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    Although he backpeddled it was just as bigoted
    It was neither backpedalled nor bigoted. Just get on with the debate rather than getting caught up in calling people names.

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    Would either of you mind quoting this scripture in Leviticus that says "hate homosexuals"?

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    The Bible says few things literally. That's why religious fanatics are taking the words into their own hands and preaching whatever they want by stringing a few cherry-picked verses together and presenting a context-altered version to suit their deranged agendas.

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    ^ That's the exact same thing I've been saying to some people. I personally believe that Jesus had the original word, and then idiots started messing with it and changing it to suit themselves, and that's where they added things like "Anti-Homosexuality" or "If you masturbate or have sex before marriage, you'll go to hell!", when in reality that's just something created by some people that want to suit their own agenda. It doesn't have anything to do with Jesus anymore. That's what makes religion look bad.



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    Perhaps it has something to do with the theory that gay couples value marriage more, because they aren't allowed to do it.
    Think about this for a second. Considering divorce rates are ridiculous as it is in America, imagine how excited divorce lawyers are for a new batch of marriages to help separate which will subsequently help them make more money. There are monetary motives for passing it in any state as well as moral/whatever motives.

    My opinion? I don't give a damn about what gay people do. Their right to marry doesn't infringe on my rights so why should I? Wherever gay marriage gets legalized, I'm happy for them. I don't find it disgusting because whatever they're doing is behind closed doors. It doesn't matter. None of this actually matters, especially if you're not gay. You're not a saint or a great person for supporting this movement.

    This entire thread, sadly, is going to devolve into people fighting over who has the moral high ground with their thoughts/feelings on this matter.

    LET THE FLAMES BEGIN! (cwutididther?)
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    I'm Christian so I believe marraige should be between a man and a woman. Therefore, I have no problems with a person being gay, I'm not the one to judge them, God is, if I see a law saying vote for gay marraige or not or something like that, then I will vote against it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltimatePokemonExpert View Post
    I'm Christian so I believe marraige should be between a man and a woman. Therefore, I have no problems with a person being gay, I'm not the one to judge them, God is, if I see a law saying vote for gay marraige or not or something like that, then I will vote against it.
    Yeah, the "I'm not judging them, but will infringe on their rights" isn't really any better.

    Furthermore, can you give me a reason why it's wrong other than religious beliefs?
    Last edited by Antiyonder; 11th November 2011 at 8:20 AM.

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    My belief is that being gay is a sin, so I believe it shouldn't be allowed. God knows it's going to be everywhere, I'm just standing up for what God tells me is the right thing to do. Just like an atheist has the right to not have to have a religion and a muslim has the right to pray five times a day, I too have the right to have my own opinions and views wether political, religious, or both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltimatePokemonExpert View Post
    My belief is that being gay is a sin, so I believe it shouldn't be allowed. God knows it's going to be everywhere, I'm just standing up for what God tells me is the right thing to do.
    Yes, but following anything blindly leads to no good. What if God said to kill a non believer?

    Would you do that?

    Just like an atheist has the right to not have to have a religion and a muslim has the right to pray five times a day, I too have the right to have my own opinions and views wether political, religious, or both.
    Yes, and an opinion should be something you have, because you believe in it. Not because someone else (Whether it's your parents or God). And furthermore, you do have a right to an opinion, but you don't have a right to force it on others (which voting against gay marriage qualifies as).
    Last edited by Antiyonder; 11th November 2011 at 8:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    Would either of you mind quoting this scripture in Leviticus that says "hate homosexuals"?
    "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Leviticus 20:13. Do not dare tell me it doesn't count because the word hate isn't literally in there. If you're ordered to kill two people for committing an act that harms precisely no one, what the **** else do you call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    I have no problem acknowledging that the Bible instructs us to hate and not tolerate the things it labels as sin.
    Apparently you do, because a) you just asked me the above quote, and b) you just dismissed my quotes as "out of context lols" without bothering to give said context. What, are your out-of-context verses somehow more valid than my out-of-context verses?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    You, on the other hand, seem to choke at the idea of acknowledging the positive impacts it and other religious texts have had on society.
    Which is totally why I just acknowledged that there were good and loving verses in the Bible, right.

    Quote Originally Posted by UltimatePokemonExpert View Post
    My belief is that being gay is a sin, so I believe it shouldn't be allowed. God knows it's going to be everywhere, I'm just standing up for what God tells me is the right thing to do. Just like an atheist has the right to not have to have a religion and a muslim has the right to pray five times a day, I too have the right to have my own opinions and views wether political, religious, or both.
    Difference here is that atheists, gays, and Muslims (well, in the States, anyway) are not trying to take away your rights for being a Christian, and if they did you'd be screaming persecution at the top of your lungs. You are perfectly willing to vote against gays having the same rights as you, but you'd be the first to hit the streets if Christian rights were at stake. Do you see the problem here?

    And okay, homosexuality is against your religion. Cool. Don't get married to a gay guy, then. Problem solved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkGengar View Post
    .
    What greatly upsets me is how some people are afraid to admit that they're gay.
    Well you can't really blame with all the violence that's been happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Xtreme View Post
    ^ That's the exact same thing I've been saying to some people. I personally believe that Jesus had the original word, and then idiots started messing with it and changing it to suit themselves, and that's where they added things like "Anti-Homosexuality" or "If you masturbate or have sex before marriage, you'll go to hell!", when in reality that's just something created by some people that want to suit their own agenda. It doesn't have anything to do with Jesus anymore. That's what makes religion look bad.
    You realize that Leviticus is older than Jesus, right? Are you saying that the Bible was tampered with over time? Then what's the point of believing a book full of lies?
    Jackpot!

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    And yet again the discussion has devolved. As we have seen before in our dealings with mattj, arguing religion back and forth nets almost zero actual results. The religious here are not going to convince people like me or the other gay debaters here that we are abominable/sinful/undeserving of equal rights. And we're not going to sway their opinions our way, either. So, I present this:

    I, at least, live in America. In The Bill of Rights, we have the right to freedom from an established religion (Establishment Clause in Amendment I), simply meaning that legally, the government cannot endorse one religion over another. Given this, a single religion, or even a handful, should not be the sole motivator for laws in this establishment. So I want to know, what are secular arguments against gay rights? Does anyone have any valid ones that are not based on fallacy and/or stereotype?
    Quote Originally Posted by snare View Post
    Roll over ya twinks, we're taking over.
    Quote Originally Posted by mapache View Post
    lol, xD the thread need a name change. The Gay/Lesbian/Bear Alliance Club
    Quote Originally Posted by Slash4life View Post
    Every discussion here ends up at either bears or musical theatre. What is this, the gay club?!


    Oh wait...

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by UltimatePokemonExpert View Post
    I'm Christian so I believe marraige should be between a man and a woman. Therefore, I have no problems with a person being gay, I'm not the one to judge them, God is, if I see a law saying vote for gay marraige or not or something like that, then I will vote against it.
    Quote Originally Posted by UltimatePokemonExpert View Post
    My belief is that being gay is a sin, so I believe it shouldn't be allowed. God knows it's going to be everywhere, I'm just standing up for what God tells me is the right thing to do. Just like an atheist has the right to not have to have a religion and a muslim has the right to pray five times a day, I too have the right to have my own opinions and views wether political, religious, or both.
    I can't find the like button?! D:

    Quote Originally Posted by J.T. View Post
    "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Leviticus 20:13. Do not dare tell me it doesn't count because the word hate isn't literally in there. If you're ordered to kill two people for committing an act that harms precisely no one, what the **** else do you call it?
    Funny. I don't see the word hate there. I don't see anything generically commanding anyone to hate anyone there. I do see a commandment to punish people who have broken a specific law for a specific country. Do parents hate their children when they punish them? What about judges? Do judges hate people that they punish for breaking specific laws? You're the one that's propagating hate and bigotry. Not the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.T. View Post
    Apparently you do, because a) you just asked me the above quote,
    Quote Originally Posted by Psalm 97:10
    Ye that love the LORD, hate evil:
    The Bible commands us to hate sin. It does not command us to hate homosexuals, as you, and others who have no clue what the Bible says, claim. I'm still waiting for you to provide a scripture that says "hate homosexuals".
    Quote Originally Posted by J.T. View Post
    and b) you just dismissed my quotes as "out of context lols" without bothering to give said context. What, are your out-of-context verses somehow more valid than my out-of-context verses?
    Why on earth do I need to give context. Read the scriptures before. Read the scriptures afterward. Read the scriptures I provided in the same post. That's the context. Leviticus cannot be read separately from Matthew, or any other book of the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.T. View Post
    Difference here is that atheists, gays, and Muslims (well, in the States, anyway) are not trying to take away your rights for being a Christian, and if they did you'd be screaming persecution at the top of your lungs. You are perfectly willing to vote against gays having the same rights as you, but you'd be the first to hit the streets if Christian rights were at stake. Do you see the problem here?
    Do you have Alzheimers? I've said over and over again that I vote in support of homosexual marriage. I know you love to rage against any religious person you can, but I'm not taking away anyone's rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphapupQuicksilver (fixed the color) View Post
    And yet again the discussion has devolved. As we have seen before in our dealings with mattj, arguing religion back and forth nets almost zero actual results.
    Because no one has any solid evidence that the Bible is homophobic, or that it compels anyone to hate homosexuals. I will not back down on this issue. Feel free to give up and move on at any time.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphapupQuicksilver (fixed the color) View Post
    The religious here are not going to convince people like me or the other gay debaters here that we are abominable/sinful/undeserving of equal rights. And we're not going to sway their opinions our way, either. So, I present this:

    I, at least, live in America. In The Bill of Rights, we have the right to freedom from an established religion (Establishment Clause in Amendment I), simply meaning that legally, the government cannot endorse one religion over another. Given this, a single religion, or even a handful, should not be the sole motivator for laws in this establishment. So I want to know, what are secular arguments against gay rights? Does anyone have any valid ones that are not based on fallacy and/or stereotype?
    The Biblical argument against homosexual acts is based on neither fallacy or stereotype. Its based on love, and a desire to help people live a better way, if that's what they choose. If you were asking if there are any secular reasons that aren't based on fallacy or stereotype, I have no idea. I doubt it.

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