Page 54 of 190 FirstFirst ... 44450515253545556575864104154 ... LastLast
Results 1,326 to 1,350 of 4740

Thread: Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

  1. #1326
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Inna House... With Cable!!!
    Posts
    3,821

    Default

    Sno you hit a very good point. IF one chooses something they need to accept the good with the bad. However gay people normally don't choose their orientation.

    I'm a 46 year old man. I can't do anything about that. However I am a 46 year old man who plays Pokemon. That is a choice I make in the face of ridicule from my adult friends and co workers. Thankfully I'm thick skinned enough to shrug off snide comments. This is the point being made by Sno Sunny.

    My daughter has shared many stories of her friends "being Gay" for a summer or two and then once the attention dies down switchback to being hetero. And before you ask, the pressure seemed to be aimed at being gay was better for some reason, as my daughter tells it. I just shrugged and told her 'To love, who she loves, and don't let ANYONE tell you different.'

    Something I was thinking on. If it's tough to be Gay, how tough is it to be Bi? They literally have both sides looking at them with askance!

    But if you're the biggest champion of individual choice in the entire forum, then I'd assume you stand up for the right to criticize gay people, choice or no choice, from a religious perspective.
    Well if someone doesn't like something they have a negative critical opinion. They have every right to have their opinion(criticism) as I have mine to say there is nothing wrong with X (and thus be criticized for it!). As for using a Religious perspective, I have read the passages that "condemn" homosexuality and can see how folks like Mattj can say "It's in the bible." Because it is,... and as I was taught, "This IS the word of the lord.". It also says love they brother or your fellow man, depending on the bible version.
    Last edited by Malanu; 26th June 2012 at 10:07 PM.

    So true!

  2. #1327
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    The House That Never Was
    Posts
    1,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    Because if you choose to be something you should expect to take the legitimate criticisms that come with it.

    You can't choose to be born black.

    You can choose to worship a deity/prophet/religion that is shown at times to be violent/prejudiced/patriarchal.

    They also open themselves up to be criticised.
    Criticism, however, should not beget injustice. The issue behind your sexuality or your religion doesn't primarily concern criticism; the main issue is the withholding of certain inalienable rights based on these choices. If someone wants to like men, they can expect criticism, and they can endure it, however, they should not be denied the right to marriage or the right to adopt (just an example), etc. This is not the same as pedophiles and murderers. These aforementioned people are criticized, because they physically injure other people or ruin their lives. A homosexual does not rape children, and they certainly don't all take away another person's right to live. So, why then, do we still treat them as unequal human beings?

    Choice does not provide justification for denying certain peoples their inalienable rights, unless they choose to kill, rape, or slaughter other living beings. I'm sure a straight person makes worse judgment than what you consider homosexuals to make.
    "Your memories are connected, like links in a chain. Those same chains are what anchor us all together."
    -Naminé


    Pokemon X Team - French Playthrough
    *COMPLETE*
    Amphinobi | Noctali | Mentali | Farfaduvet | Darumacho | Carchakrok
    3DS FC: 0430 - 9679 - 6068
    IGN: Micah
    Friend Safari Type: Fire
    Friend Safari Pokemon: Magmar, Ninetales, Charmeleon


        Spoiler:- Credits, etc.:


  3. #1328
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Evil Scumbags, Inc.
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    Well, ignoring the notion that sweeping generalisations automatically make one sexist/racist etc. (nb, they don't), the difference between being born as something and choosing to be something is chasm-like.

    I didn't mean that I actually think people are sexist/racist/homophobic/etc. just because they make one generalization. I meant that the forum as a whole tends to act like that. In fact, much of the Internet does. The point was that making sweeping generalizations about any group of people is generally pretty ignorant.

  4. #1329
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The Cool Cool River
    Posts
    2,760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    Exactly. Isn't criticism a tenant of free speech?
    Yes, but choosing between criticising something that is a choice and something that isn't is rather a big difference.

    If so how is doing something involuntarily any less open to criticism than doing something by choice?
    Oh come on.

    Seems like the ability to criticize is unconditional, and if so it wouldn't be dependant upon whether or not the target of criticism made a choice.
    The ability to criticise is unconditional, the ability to criticise with justification is not.

    Just because Pesky Persian said that making sweeping generalizations is bigoted, doesn't mean it CAN'T be done. It just opens you up to criticism, like you said. But if you're the biggest champion of individual choice in the entire forum, then I'd assume you stand up for the right to criticize gay people, choice or no choice, from a religious perspective.
    Of course I do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    I didn't mean that I actually think people are sexist/racist/homophobic/etc. just because they make one generalization. I meant that the forum as a whole tends to act like that. In fact, much of the Internet does. The point was that making sweeping generalizations about any group of people is generally pretty ignorant.
    Yeah my fault interpretation wise.

  5. #1330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    Yes, but choosing between criticising something that is a choice and something that isn't is rather a big difference.
    I agree with this. People choose to wear crazy nerd clothes. If they choose to, they should know some people are going to make fun of them.

    If they have acne, that's a different story. They may dress odd, but they didn't smear grease on their face just to have it.

    I know it's a bad parallel. But I hope you get the point.
    Goodbye friends. My Pokémon drive is reaching zero, so I'm gonna go do other stuffs. Love you all. c:

    -Alex

  6. #1331
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Why do some people care unless it's a familly member or otherwise. It doesn't affect them in any way shape or form if random people from a different city are gay, so why do they act out against them? I can ignore you if I don't like/agree with you, so why don't others? This is an actual question from a heterosexual, not sarcaism.

  7. #1332

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FE21 View Post
    Why do some people care unless it's a familly member or otherwise. It doesn't affect them in any way shape or form if random people from a different city are gay, so why do they act out against them? I can ignore you if I don't like/agree with you, so why don't others? This is an actual question from a heterosexual, not sarcaism.
    I don't live in Africa. I don't see any starving African children. Nor am I related to any.

    Welp. I guess I shouldn't care! Screw the little starving children!

    No. You care because it's the right thing to do. You care because it's taking away someones rights. That's why you care. It may not personally affect me, but it's affecting people. People get bullied, commit suicide, and sometimes get murdered for this type of stuff - stuff they can't even control. And it's more than just 'lol i canz git mareed kewl'

    It's the fact that, if they can't get married, they don't have rights to their partner. If their partner gets hurt, and is in the hospital. They can't see them. They aren't immediate family. They could live together for twenty years. And nope. It means absolutely 0. And why? Because they're both male? Oh wow. This does happen. I've seen it.

    A man and his boyfriend dated for 6 - 7 years. His boyfriend fell off of a building. He had rights to nothing. The bf's family was indenial that there son was gay even before he died. So they didn't let the alive man see him. Ever. He gets no rights to nothing. They took all of his stuff. He couldn't go to the funeral. And he had no rights to any documents. At all.

    Tell me. How is that fair? At all? How can you justify that?
    Goodbye friends. My Pokémon drive is reaching zero, so I'm gonna go do other stuffs. Love you all. c:

    -Alex

  8. #1333
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Shiver Star
    Posts
    2,155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ❤Lady Baltny❤ View Post
    I don't live in Africa. I don't see any starving African children. Nor am I related to any.

    Welp. I guess I shouldn't care! Screw the little starving children!

    No. You care because it's the right thing to do. You care because it's taking away someones rights. That's why you care. It may not personally affect me, but it's affecting people. People get bullied, commit suicide, and sometimes get murdered for this type of stuff - stuff they can't even control. And it's more than just 'lol i canz git mareed kewl'

    It's the fact that, if they can't get married, they don't have rights to their partner. If their partner gets hurt, and is in the hospital. They can't see them. They aren't immediate family. They could live together for twenty years. And nope. It means absolutely 0. And why? Because they're both male? Oh wow. This does happen. I've seen it.

    A man and his boyfriend dated for 6 - 7 years. His boyfriend fell off of a building. He had rights to nothing. The bf's family was indenial that there son was gay even before he died. So they didn't let the alive man see him. Ever. He gets no rights to nothing. They took all of his stuff. He couldn't go to the funeral. And he had no rights to any documents. At all.

    Tell me. How is that fair? At all? How can you justify that?
    It's a shame you typed all of that up, because you completely misunderstood FE21's post. He didn't say, "If they have nothing to do with you, you don't need to help them." He said, "If they have nothing to do with you, there's no reason to go against them."
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

  9. #1334
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Sunny California
    Posts
    2,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ❤Lady Baltny❤ View Post
    I don't live in Africa. I don't see any starving African children. Nor am I related to any.

    Welp. I guess I shouldn't care! Screw the little starving children!

    No. You care because it's the right thing to do. You care because it's taking away someones rights. That's why you care. It may not personally affect me, but it's affecting people. People get bullied, commit suicide, and sometimes get murdered for this type of stuff - stuff they can't even control. And it's more than just 'lol i canz git mareed kewl'

    It's the fact that, if they can't get married, they don't have rights to their partner. If their partner gets hurt, and is in the hospital. They can't see them. They aren't immediate family. They could live together for twenty years. And nope. It means absolutely 0. And why? Because they're both male? Oh wow. This does happen. I've seen it.

    A man and his boyfriend dated for 6 - 7 years. His boyfriend fell off of a building. He had rights to nothing. The bf's family was indenial that there son was gay even before he died. So they didn't let the alive man see him. Ever. He gets no rights to nothing. They took all of his stuff. He couldn't go to the funeral. And he had no rights to any documents. At all.

    Tell me. How is that fair? At all? How can you justify that?
    Like marioguy said, you misunderstood their statement. The key word in their post is against - why would anyone act against homosexuality when someone else's sexual orientation doesn't affect them. Although you may have inadvetantly answered their question in a bizarre, unintended way. People act against homosexuals they don't know because they feel stopping homosexuality is the right thing to do, regardless of whether it's their buisiness or not. When someone thinks they are doing something for the right cause and doesn't acknowledge boundaries or other people's ways of living, they can do very dangerous, disrespectful things, whatever their intentions might be, whatever side of the political spectrum they are on. We kind of lack that 'it's none of our buisiness' moral nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Albus Dumbledore
    Words are, in my not-so-humble opinion, our most inexhaustible source of magic. Capable of both inflicting injury, and remedying it.

    My deviantART
    | Suggested Alternative News: The Juice Rap News and The Corbett Report

  10. #1335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    Like marioguy said, you misunderstood their statement. The key word in their post is against - why would anyone act against homosexuality when someone else's sexual orientation doesn't affect them. Although you may have inadvetantly answered their question in a bizarre, unintended way. People act against homosexuals they don't know because they feel stopping homosexuality is the right thing to do, regardless of whether it's their buisiness or not. When someone thinks they are doing something for the right cause and doesn't acknowledge boundaries or other people's ways of living, they can do very dangerous, disrespectful things, whatever their intentions might be, whatever side of the political spectrum they are on. We kind of lack that 'it's none of our buisiness' moral nowadays...
    Oh. Well then that's easy to answer.

    1. Misinterpreting the bible.
    2. "Eww it's nasty."

    Pretty much the only valid reasons. But still. It could be a good thing I typed it. Someone may read it and change their view points a tad.
    Goodbye friends. My Pokémon drive is reaching zero, so I'm gonna go do other stuffs. Love you all. c:

    -Alex

  11. #1336
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    INSIDE...
    Posts
    2,118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FE21 View Post
    Why do some people care unless it's a familly member or otherwise. It doesn't affect them in any way shape or form if random people from a different city are gay, so why do they act out against them? I can ignore you if I don't like/agree with you, so why don't others? This is an actual question from a heterosexual, not sarcaism.
    There's a difference, to me, between having an adverse opinion but otherwise living and letting live, and being neutral to in favor of LGBT rights but just not saying or doing anything about it, and then wondering why the LBGT community thinks poorly of you. Armchair activism is one thing, but when you can do something in favor of equality and don't -- and frankly, the comparisons drawn to the civil rights movement are strikingly accurate -- then no **** people are going to think badly of you for it. Especially since "ignoring" is easier when, you know... you're not actively oppressed by certain majority groups of people.


    SHINY RAINBOWS BECKON YOU TO THE ARTIST'S CORNER

    Trainer Name: Misha
    3DS FC: 5112-3720-5938
    Friend Safari: Fighting; Pancham, Machoke, Hariyama


  12. #1337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ❤Lady Baltny❤ View Post
    Oh. Well then that's easy to answer.

    1. Misinterpreting the bible.
    the people doing the misinterpreting are verifiably the pro homosexual side

    there really is no serious debate over what the bible says about homosexuality

  13. #1338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    the people doing the misinterpreting are verifiably the pro homosexual side

    there really is no serious debate over what the bible says about homosexuality
    See, I didn't want to say "The bible" because that wouldv'e started a **** storm. I decided to down scale it by saying misinterpreting. But now that I read it I basically just the exact opposite thing I meant. Second time I've done something today.

    /Hopefullyendingfoolishposts.

        Spoiler:- TryingToJustifyMyself ?:
    Goodbye friends. My Pokémon drive is reaching zero, so I'm gonna go do other stuffs. Love you all. c:

    -Alex

  14. #1339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ❤Lady Baltny❤ View Post
    I don't remember who, but I remember seeing it. IT was something along the lines of "Being gay isn't in the top ten commandments, so while it's a sin, it's not as big as these main ten, so they should still be able to go to heaven." Something like that. And I agreed with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by I Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB)
    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [fn]effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
    do not be decieved
    homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God

    I can understand the logic behind "its not in the 10 commandments", but with all due respect that's just your opinion, not the opinion of the God of the Bible. The Bible never says "if it's not in the top 10" (which isn't what the 10 commandments are) then you'll still make it into heaven. It specifically says "these people who do these things will not make it into heaven". Homosexuality happens to be one of those things, though not the only thing.

  15. #1340
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A handful of dust
    Posts
    2,998

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    I can understand the logic behind "its not in the 10 commandments", but with all due respect that's just your opinion, not the opinion of the God of the Bible. The Bible never says "if it's not in the top 10" (which isn't what the 10 commandments are) then you'll still make it into heaven. It specifically says "these people who do these things will not make it into heaven". Homosexuality happens to be one of those things, though not the only thing.
    May I point out that the Corinthians list starts with "fornicators"?

    Guess we're all fucked.

  16. #1341
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Evil Scumbags, Inc.
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    I don't know about anyone else's Bibles but mine lists the only criterion for getting into heaven as believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior...

  17. #1342
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Shiver Star
    Posts
    2,155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
    May I point out that the Corinthians list starts with "fornicators"?

    Guess we're all [censor bypass detected].
    Speak for yourself. I've never had sex with anyone that I wasn't married to. Those who do are ****s.
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

  18. #1343
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Sunny California
    Posts
    2,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    do not be decieved
    homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God

    I can understand the logic behind "its not in the 10 commandments", but with all due respect that's just your opinion, not the opinion of the God of the Bible. The Bible never says "if it's not in the top 10" (which isn't what the 10 commandments are) then you'll still make it into heaven. It specifically says "these people who do these things will not make it into heaven". Homosexuality happens to be one of those things, though not the only thing.
    Quick question about that verse - what does it mean about 'the [fn]effeminate'? Are my effeminate stylistic preferences actually considered a sin, or does it mean something else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albus Dumbledore
    Words are, in my not-so-humble opinion, our most inexhaustible source of magic. Capable of both inflicting injury, and remedying it.

    My deviantART
    | Suggested Alternative News: The Juice Rap News and The Corbett Report

  19. #1344
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A handful of dust
    Posts
    2,998

    Default

    I'd like to request my right to terminate employees for pre-marital sex and effeminate mannerisms, please. It's simply not fair that Christian employers should have their religious liberties compromised by being forced to cater to these people.

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    Quick question about that verse - what does it mean about 'the [fn]effeminate'? Are my effeminate stylistic preferences actually considered a sin, or does it mean something else?
    Who cares? Interpret it in the most basic way possible, tell your friends, and be sure to cite at at the exit polls when you vote against equal workplace rights for metros.
    Last edited by Cipher; 1st July 2012 at 2:24 AM.

  20. #1345
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Sunny California
    Posts
    2,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
    Who cares? Interpret it in the most basic way possible, tell your friends, and be sure to site at at the exit polls when you vote against equal workplace rights for metros.
    And let's ban effeminates from paying taxes! Who wants those effeminate dollars going toward making our infrastructure effeminate, anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albus Dumbledore
    Words are, in my not-so-humble opinion, our most inexhaustible source of magic. Capable of both inflicting injury, and remedying it.

    My deviantART
    | Suggested Alternative News: The Juice Rap News and The Corbett Report

  21. #1346
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A handful of dust
    Posts
    2,998

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    And let's ban effeminates from paying taxes! Who wants those effeminate dollars going toward making our infrastructure effeminate, anyway?
    Sorry, satirical comments actually have to correlate to real events in order to work.

    Is this why these debates get so ridiculous?

  22. #1347
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Sunny California
    Posts
    2,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
    Sorry, satirical comments actually have to correlate to real events in order to work.

    Is this why these debates get so ridiculous?
    It was based on another joke I heard about banning gay people from paying taxes. But you're right - pardon me for getting off topic. All the posts have to explcitly relate to the topic of homosexuality. I still want to hear mattj's take on the sin of effeminacy, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albus Dumbledore
    Words are, in my not-so-humble opinion, our most inexhaustible source of magic. Capable of both inflicting injury, and remedying it.

    My deviantART
    | Suggested Alternative News: The Juice Rap News and The Corbett Report

  23. #1348
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    3,189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    It was based on another joke I heard about banning gay people from paying taxes. But you're right - pardon me for getting off topic. All the posts have to explcitly relate to the topic of homosexuality. I still want to hear mattj's take on the sin of effeminacy, though.
    I believe some countries do punish you for being effimenate. (Not always by law but either under other laws, or normal citizens kill you for it.)
        Spoiler:- My latest challenge:

  24. #1349

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    I don't know about anyone else's Bibles but mine lists the only criterion for getting into heaven as believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior...
    I'd like to see the verse that says "The only criterion for getting into heaven is believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. My Bible lists quite a few criterion.
    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyC View Post
    Quick question about that verse - what does it mean about 'the [fn]effeminate'? Are my effeminate stylistic preferences actually considered a sin, or does it mean something else?
    I'll be the first to admit that I don't fully understand the difference between homosexuality and effeminate there. In our modern English they're usually synonymous to an extent. But you've got to understand, this was translated from Greek to English 401 years ago in another country. It probably doesn't mean the exact same thing we mean when we use the word effeminate.

  25. #1350
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A handful of dust
    Posts
    2,998

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    I'd like to see the verse that says "The only criterion for getting into heaven is believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. My Bible lists quite a few criterion.I'll be the first to admit that I don't fully understand the difference between homosexuality and effeminate there. In our modern English they're usually synonymous to an extent. But you've got to understand, this was translated from Greek to English 401 years ago in another country. It probably doesn't mean the exact same thing we mean when we use the word effeminate.
    But "fornicators" likely does. And whatever the proper, modern equivalent of "effeminate" might be, I doubt it's a quality you could justify discriminating.

    Which is why as gay anti-discrimination bills continue to pop up, and actually receive debate, across the country, the oft-cited idea that they somehow violate the religious freedom of employers is absurd. I mean, you can accept that argument, sure, but only if you're equally willing to accept someone should be legally protected for discriminating against "effeminate" people or those with normal sex lives. You can't cherry pick from the source if you choose to interpret one part literally; what the Bible says about homosexuals, it also says about the groups cited above.

    And then there's the whole notion of "Why Christianity?" I'm sure Scientologists put up with laws daily that somehow conflict with their religious views. The Book of Mormon is A-OK with polygamy, but the government isn't. Muslims can't always get their traditionally mandated prayer schedules into the work place or public schools.

    Religious liberty is the right to practice your beliefs without persecution. It does not mean government has to comply with every minutiae of your dogma, because, quite frankly, it can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    Speak for yourself. I've never had sex with anyone that I wasn't married to. Those who do are ****s.
    Just an aside, but I'd be seriously surprised if it didn't aslo include chronic masturbaters or even anyone prone to lustful or just sensual thoughts in this context. Hell, it's probably a stand-in for prioritizing sensory pleasure in general.
    Last edited by Cipher; 1st July 2012 at 2:30 AM.

Page 54 of 190 FirstFirst ... 44450515253545556575864104154 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •