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Thread: Where's the originality?

  1. #1
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    Default Where's the originality?

    I only play through the 4th generation on wifi and Pokemon Battle Revolution, and from the past couple months I have noticed a complete lack of any originality in the teams that I have fought.

    Why must everyone use the same Pokemon on their teams? I'm talking about such pokemon as:

    Infernape (probably the most overused)
    Gyarados
    Metagross
    Garchomp
    Gengar
    Salamence
    Lucario
    Staraptor

    I'm sure over 75% of you had one or more of these on your 4th gen teams. Was it because you really liked them, or because they are like demi-gods and win too easily.

    Does EVERYONE seriously like all the same pokemon, or has winning become such a desired result that people just use whatever kills the best without actually trying to use the pokemon they like? I run a mono-dark team on Pokemon Battle Revolution, without darkrai that is, and I think it works pretty well, but it's always the same when I fight these people with the run-of-the-mill teams of infernapes and lucarios.

    My team consists of Umbreon, weavile, absol, houndoom, sharpedo, and honchkrow, none of which are seen too much on wifi or Pokemon Battle Revolution, so it's not like I'm being such a hypocrite with the same team. But the game is no fun fighting the same team over and over again, just with slightly different movesets or stats.

    I'm just wondering, where is the originality????

  2. #2
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    On PBR, at least on Random Match option, people generally play their best hand since others can as well. Your Butterfree won't go far if your opponent brings out Mewtwo.
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  3. #3
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    I wouldn't call those kinds of teams their "best hand," I would call it their laziest hand, because it's so easy to make and they come out good without proper training. I mean if people used the pokemon they actually liked, they could learn to be good with them, and I would call that their "best hand." That's what I try to do and I think it works pretty well.

  4. #4
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    I'll go play standard OU with Delcatty to see how it works out.

    But seriously, if you want originality, ask for UU/NU battles. OU/Ubers are anything but originality.
    Currently attempting RNG in Sapphire.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeleTran View Post
    I'll go play standard OU with Delcatty to see how it works out.

    But seriously, if you want originality, ask for UU/NU battles. OU/Ubers are anything but originality.
    I guess that can work on 4th gen wifi, but as you probably know the people on Pokemon Battle Revolution aren't as kind with the clauses and tiers, so you have to be prepared for anything. I'm just saying that even with people using whatever they want with whatever move set on PBR, I would expect them to at least have some diversity, but clearly that is not the case.

  6. #6
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    I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. When I first started getting off in-game/my friends only battles, I was really frustrated that everyone was using the most blatant, obvious strategies. No super cool, incredibly thought out strategies were played, jsut the tried-and-true strategies. And I was a bit upset.

    I listen to a Pokemon Podcast called It's Super Effective and they're all about original (ish) strategies that aren't carbon copies off of Smogon, or SkarmBliss. They of course take those things into consideration, but in the end, they try to make less commonly used strategies/Pokemon work. And listening to them really got me excited about battling online.

    So you can imagine the disappointment I felt when I found out how linear most of these battles were. Not that I'm better than them, it's just. Nothing really creative. But I came to terms with it eventually, and while I still wish people were a bit more creative, I've come to accept that that's just how it is.

    But I also agree with everyone else. Originality can be found in the lower tiers.

    People play to win. And in order to survive in an environment where everyone is playing to win with whatever tools they can, you'd have to either follow them or come up with something so good that you were on the same level as them without following them.

    I just wish that just because you bring in one OU Pokemon didn't mean you had to battle all OU. Cos then I'd totally be all for battling UU/RU/BL.

    In any case, that's why I just go on the Random Match-Up. It's a lot more random, a lot less standard. Sure, there is an overabundance of the same Pokemon, but at least every now and then there's a little bit of originality.

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    Out of the Pokémon on that list, I use two of them (Lucario and Staraptor). And not on every team. I also plan to use two others in the future (Metagross and Gyarados). I use whatever Pokémon I want to use. Whether it be something as common as a Shell Smash Cloyster or something rare like a Water Absorb Politoed.

    Having an original team certainly does bring more fun into it. It can also throw your opponent off if he/she is use to using and battling unoriginal teams. That's always fun.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NACHOE! View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. When I first started getting off in-game/my friends only battles, I was really frustrated that everyone was using the most blatant, obvious strategies. No super cool, incredibly thought out strategies were played, jsut the tried-and-true strategies. And I was a bit upset.

    I listen to a Pokemon Podcast called It's Super Effective and they're all about original (ish) strategies that aren't carbon copies off of Smogon, or SkarmBliss. They of course take those things into consideration, but in the end, they try to make less commonly used strategies/Pokemon work. And listening to them really got me excited about battling online.

    So you can imagine the disappointment I felt when I found out how linear most of these battles were. Not that I'm better than them, it's just. Nothing really creative. But I came to terms with it eventually, and while I still wish people were a bit more creative, I've come to accept that that's just how it is.

    But I also agree with everyone else. Originality can be found in the lower tiers.

    People play to win. And in order to survive in an environment where everyone is playing to win with whatever tools they can, you'd have to either follow them or come up with something so good that you were on the same level as them without following them.

    I just wish that just because you bring in one OU Pokemon didn't mean you had to battle all OU. Cos then I'd totally be all for battling UU/RU/BL.

    In any case, that's why I just go on the Random Match-Up. It's a lot more random, a lot less standard. Sure, there is an overabundance of the same Pokemon, but at least every now and then there's a little bit of originality.
    I agree, random matching can be boring and uncreative, but there are others, such as yourself I guess, that do still bring creativity and new strategy to the table, and I enjoy battling people like you. I guess people are just worried about winning, and they don't want to take the time to figure out other strategies that do actually work. And there are other strategies that don't require those generic teams, it's just that people don't want to find them. But again I just accept it and learn to beat the generic teams, and when I find an original team, I applaud them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side4 View Post
    I guess that can work on 4th gen wifi, but as you probably know the people on Pokemon Battle Revolution aren't as kind with the clauses and tiers, so you have to be prepared for anything. I'm just saying that even with people using whatever they want with whatever move set on PBR, I would expect them to at least have some diversity, but clearly that is not the case.
    The people who use Ubers on PBR are usually noobs, and easy to beat - my Furret once KO'ed a noob's Dialga, and although I have an Uber team for PBR, it's full of gimmicks (SubPunch SD Darkrai with Sucker Punch/Drain Punch, for example; no Dark Void, because the opponent usually switches in fear of it so I can setup a Substitute for free - another is DD physical Latios).

    The only OU's I use in Random Matchup in Black are Skarmory (a boss), Politoed (for my low-tier rain teams, made up of Hydration Whiscash and others), and Scizor/Metagross with Specs sets (they do work).
    Currently attempting RNG in Sapphire.

  10. #10
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    I find UU way more fun anyway... that way I can get away with doing things like using my favourtites, doing mono-type teams and just things that challenge you in the end (then again I do loose alot xD)

  11. #11
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    I don't use any of those pokemon honestly, though I do like to have a pikachu in every team I have XP
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by draya the dark master View Post
    I find UU way more fun anyway... that way I can get away with doing things like using my favourtites, doing mono-type teams and just things that challenge you in the end (then again I do loose alot xD)
    yeah, trying using a mono-type team on Pokemon battle revolution, where absolutely everything is allowed. It a lot more challenging and fun, but it does get difficult with all these legend teams, but I do win a surprising amount, even with all dark types.

  13. #13
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    I never played 4th gen, but it was (and still is) the case for 5th gen too. Even with so many more Pokémon being introduced, most of the teams you see on PO are very similar. It's because people just want to use the things that are easy to win with. That's why I'm trying to play in the lower tiers now, I got bored of 5th gen OU fast.

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  14. #14
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    I generally play with theme teams and enjoying experimenting with what I can with rain dance teams. I enjoy winning, but I usually have more fun looking for new ways I can use pokemon or new pokemon I can use in a rain dance setup. I don't often hold the same team for very long and rotate pokemon in and out frequently.

    I admit to having a Gengar in my current team, but I genuinely love him as a pokemon and have done since first gen. I've got some new ideas about W-Rotom and Eelektross though so he'll be benched soon enough.

    And yeah the lower tiers are more fun to play in cos people use the pokemon they love rather than pokemon that can overkill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Mangrove View Post
    I generally play with theme teams and enjoying experimenting with what I can with rain dance teams. I enjoy winning, but I usually have more fun looking for new ways I can use pokemon or new pokemon I can use in a rain dance setup. I don't often hold the same team for very long and rotate pokemon in and out frequently.

    I admit to having a Gengar in my current team, but I genuinely love him as a pokemon and have done since first gen. I've got some new ideas about W-Rotom and Eelektross though so he'll be benched soon enough.

    And yeah the lower tiers are more fun to play in cos people use the pokemon they love rather than pokemon that can overkill.
    I totally respect what your saying, and I think it's fine to have just one of the above mentioned pokemon, as long as the entire group doesn't define your team.

    Something I'm not too fond of are rain dance teams, as they are also one of the reasons I made this thread. I think rain dance teams, or at least the ones I've encountered, are the simplest and cheapest teams ever. Everyone just brings out a scarfed kyogre, ludicolo w/ swift swim, kabutops w/swift swim, floatzel w/swift swim, and like a kingdra w/swift swim. You just open up with kyogre and one of the above mentioned swift swimmers, and it just becomes too easy. I's sure they can be fun, but I really don't see any skill in using a rain dance team. All you need in rain, and a kyogre is perfect for that.

  16. #16

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    See, these tiers exist for a reason. Some pokemon are better than others, and if you're playing a game, more likely than not you're doing it to win. So most people are going to pick the good pokemon so they can win, or pokemon that can counter those. Yes, originality is appreciated, but originality does not win games. If I want to win something, I'm going to use the best pokemon I can, which more often than not includes pokemon like those above. I actually didn't use any of those pokemon in 4th gen, but I can see the supposed problem. And there are plenty of amazing UU pokemon too, it's just that there's so many more pokemon that it's not as much of a problem. By the time all of the 5th Gen games are out, we're gonna be seeing the same pokemon in UU and lower tiers too.
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    Originality doesn't matter in competitive battling. In competitive, people use pokemon that will win. If you don't like having to use the same pokemon that others are using, then don't play competitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatino95 View Post
    Originality doesn't matter in competitive battling. In competitive, people use pokemon that will win. If you don't like having to use the same pokemon that others are using, then don't play competitive.
    Or play in the lower tiers where Pokemon like Butterfree and Pidgeot won't have to worry about encountering Haxorus and Heatran.

    EDIT: Of course, this doesn't work out too well on Random Match in BW and PBR.
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    Most of those Pokemon are OU for a reason.
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    People often play OU to win, and win only. Thus, they only use the best. They don't care about originality whatsoever, unless it's better than what they already have. Cue teams stuffed with Tyranitar and Scizor.
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    SOme of those pokemon I do use, but I use creative sets that no one else uses
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    Lol to be honest I never had any of these in my competitive teams. I didn't like them because they were way too common and I like to be original.

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  23. #23
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    You receive 10 pints for a good report about the essence of originality. If only the next tournament will have this rule about non-competitive pokemon at use.
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    The act of being OU implies that everyone is going to use the same stuff.

    On the one hand, if you want to win, of course you want to use the best.

    But on the other, from the battles I watch, the core of the game is prediction the different kind of sets on the opposition Pokemon, and making ballsy judgements anticipating the obvious moves. Unsurprisingly, different Pokemon/movesets often throw the opposition off. It's bizarre how the competitive battling scene is built more around predictions and calculations than anything else, if someone turns up to the party with something different, it all goes out the window.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side4 View Post
    I only play through the 4th generation on wifi and Pokemon Battle Revolution, and from the past couple months I have noticed a complete lack of any originality in the teams that I have fought.

    Why must everyone use the same Pokemon on their teams? I'm talking about such pokemon as:

    Infernape (probably the most overused)
    Gyarados
    Metagross
    Garchomp
    Gengar
    Salamence
    Lucario
    Staraptor
    I can tell you my team had... none of those. My team was

    Torterra (I always keep my starter, even if I dislike it. Torterra was pretty much the starter I hated the least that gen.)
    Bibarel (Duh!)
    Crobat (Fly slave, but he was a pretty good battler)
    Hippowdon (Hippos are cool!)
    Raichu (Raichu's cool, too.)
    Lickilicky (DARN YOU EVOLITE! WHY DIDN'T YOU EXIST SOONER! I COULD HAVE HAD LICKITUNG ON MY TEAM INSTEAD THAT FAT PINK BLOB!)

    Those guys you mentioned, most of those I wouldn't even consider on my team.

    As for tiers, I think the belief that only OU Pokemon can be used there is rubbish. I would rather lose with Pokemon I like than win with Pokemon I HATE.


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