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Thread: Where's the originality?

  1. #26
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    I understand the concept of tiers people, and I know that I should try to go to lower tiers, but as I said in my original post, I only play on Pokemon battle revolution wifi battles, and so there are no tiers whatsoever. I'm just surprised that there is absolutely no originality on Pokemon Battle Revolution, even though people are free to use whatever they want with whatever move set they want. Over using pokemon like infernape or metagross isn't the "best," it's just lazy because they're easy to use. If people actually used the pokemon they like and trained the well and learned how to use them, they could be just as good as the over used teams mentioned before, this does have a few exceptions however, such as a team of unknowns, because that would suck no matter how well you trained them or how much you loved them. But seriously, people are just lazy and obsessed with winning with these poorly put together and overpowered teams, with no thought of what they like or any kind of originality. I was just wondering why people don't just try out teams filled with pokemon they ACTUALLY LIKE USING. But i guess that's too much to ask for, at least for those who play Pokemon Battle Revolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MugoUrth View Post
    I can tell you my team had... none of those. My team was

    Torterra (I always keep my starter, even if I dislike it. Torterra was pretty much the starter I hated the least that gen.)
    Bibarel (Duh!)
    Crobat (Fly slave, but he was a pretty good battler)
    Hippowdon (Hippos are cool!)
    Raichu (Raichu's cool, too.)
    Lickilicky (DARN YOU EVOLITE! WHY DIDN'T YOU EXIST SOONER! I COULD HAVE HAD LICKITUNG ON MY TEAM INSTEAD THAT FAT PINK BLOB!)

    Those guys you mentioned, most of those I wouldn't even consider on my team.

    As for tiers, I think the belief that only OU Pokemon can be used there is rubbish. I would rather lose with Pokemon I like than win with Pokemon I HATE.
    Thank you sir, you get it. That is exactly what I'm talking about. People have moved away from using those they like and have gone to those they don't really care about, as long as they win. I've been pummeled before, but at least I'm losing with a team that I enjoy using, and not some team full of legends or infernapes that I don't.

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    Well I guess if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Again, if you want to win, of course you're going to use the best Pokemon.

    Having said that, in the situation you describe (PBR WIFI), cut throat competitiveness is hardly in demand there is it? So you'd think there'd be a bit more experimentation, but alas. Some of my best teams are the ones I happened to throw together from random favourites.

    And again, at some point, using the same stuff will just make it easier for you to get beaten.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side4 View Post
    Thank you sir, you get it. That is exactly what I'm talking about. People have moved away from using those they like and have gone to those they don't really care about, as long as they win. I've been pummeled before, but at least I'm losing with a team that I enjoy using, and not some team full of legends or infernapes that I don't.
    I know. My current Black team is which I am posting because it's a better example of using Pokemon I like:

    Samurott
    Watchog
    Scolipede
    Excadrill
    Darmanitan
    Vullaby

    Now, I know Excadrill is an Uber Pokemon, but again I use him cause I like him, not because he's powerful. That being said, my Excadrill is probably not among the better ones, using Sandforce instead of Sandrush, so it's considerably slow and attacks second most of the time. And on that note, Excadrill's already powerful enough it doesn't even need SandForce. My Darmanitan also has problems with a moveset that doesn't make use of Sheer Force. Samurott, Watchog, Scolipede, and Vullaby/Mandibuzz are all NU, but I don't care. They're cool so I keep them on my team.
    Last edited by MugoUrth; 19th November 2011 at 5:46 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Benmeister View Post
    Well I guess if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Again, if you want to win, of course you're going to use the best Pokemon.

    Having said that, in the situation you describe (PBR WIFI), cut throat competitiveness is hardly in demand there is it? So you'd think there'd be a bit more experimentation, but alas. Some of my best teams are the ones I happened to throw together from random favourites.

    And again, at some point, using the same stuff will just make it easier for you to get beaten.
    Actually Pokemon Battle Revolution wifi battling is exactly why I wrote this, because all people use are the before mentioned pokemon, where people ONLY care about winning. I would think that there wouldn't be much competitiveness in PBR, but that's all there is, with these generic teams, with NO experimentation at all. You would be surprised at how much people just want to win on Pokemon Battle Revolution. And with no tiers or rules at all, people just get lazy with there legends and overused pokemon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MugoUrth View Post
    I know. My current Black team is which I am posting because it's a better example of using Pokemon I like:

    Samurott
    Watchog
    Scolipede
    Excadrill
    Darmanitan
    Vullaby

    Now, I know Excadrill is an Uber Pokemon, but again I use him cause I like him, not because he's powerful. That being said, my Excadrill is probably not among the better ones, using Sandforce instead of Sandrush, so it's considerably slow and attacks second most of the time. My Darmanitan also has problems with a moveset that doesn't make use of Sheer Force. Samurott, Watchog, Scolipede, and Vullaby/Mandibuzz are all NU, but I don't care. They're cool so I keep them on my team.
    I havne't played black or white yet, but I'm assuming the pokemon you mentioned aren't the most used, but I appreciate the understanding.

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    I'm thinking this may be because, as far as I'm aware, PBR was the main game used for the more official tournaments (don't know what it is now). And of course in these tournaments everyone just spouts Ubers left right and centre. May have influenced the general PBR public. But that's just not my cup of tea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MugoUrth View Post
    As for tiers, I think the belief that only OU Pokemon can be used there is rubbish. I would rather lose with Pokemon I like than win with Pokemon I HATE.
    You CAN use UU/RU/whatever in OU. Where did you get that idea from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side4 View Post
    Actually Pokemon Battle Revolution wifi battling is exactly why I wrote this, because all people use are the before mentioned pokemon, where people ONLY care about winning.
    ...because not everyone finds being original fun? Because some people actually do find winning fun?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Using UU/RU Pokemon in ways that doesn't actually take advantage of some REAL niche in OU is like letting a horse poop on your chest; then when people ask why you let it do that you defend yourself by saying "well now I have all this horse poop", ignoring everyone who tries to reason with you that this isn't really a good thing either.
    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Best. Analogy. Ever.

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    Think about it this way. If all the teams are close to the same you can make a counter team and win easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by girazard View Post
    You CAN use UU/RU/whatever in OU. Where did you get that idea from?



    ...because not everyone finds being original fun? Because some people actually do find winning fun?
    You clearly don't understand what I'm trying to say here. Yes, people do like winning, and it's not that originality that's supposed the fun part genius. You can be original AND still win, its just people are too lazy to learn how to use the pokemon they like, and instead those people, I'm assuming you're one of them, just use the pokemon that take no skill or effort to use. I don't know where you get the idea that you can't be both original AND still win, but clearly you aren't good enough to do so, so maybe this thread isn't for you.

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    When did I say that being original and winning/being good were mutually exclusive? If no one was original then playing competitive - of any kind - would severely decrease the skill of the players.

    All I'm saying is that you shouldn't call people out for using teams that WORK. If you were complaining about them just using those sorts of teams and just playing badly (which would suggest that they really are just slapping together a team and thinking they are good just for that) then I could understand you, but it seems that you are just complaining about people using good teams.

    And, to be honest, if you think that using OU Pokemon take no effort to use, then you are incredibly mistaken. A good player with UUs like Blaziken/Blastoise/Exeggcutor would OWN a terrible OU player who thinks that you should only ever use OU Pokes in OU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Using UU/RU Pokemon in ways that doesn't actually take advantage of some REAL niche in OU is like letting a horse poop on your chest; then when people ask why you let it do that you defend yourself by saying "well now I have all this horse poop", ignoring everyone who tries to reason with you that this isn't really a good thing either.
    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Best. Analogy. Ever.

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side4 View Post
    You clearly don't understand what I'm trying to say here. Yes, people do like winning, and it's not that originality that's supposed the fun part genius. You can be original AND still win, its just people are too lazy to learn how to use the pokemon they like, and instead those people, I'm assuming you're one of them, just use the pokemon that take no skill or effort to use. I don't know where you get the idea that you can't be both original AND still win, but clearly you aren't good enough to do so, so maybe this thread isn't for you.
    Okay, it's not being too lazy to win, it's that sometimes someone's favorite pokemon is just bad. I love Golurk. I love him to death. But I tried using him in competitive battles in the early days of Gen. V, and he got destroyed. Every time. I gave him what I figured were the best EVs to take advantage of his stats, great moves, and you know what? He still lost. So I'm not going to use him competitively ever again. Oh, I forget, you don't play Gen. V. Fine, I'll go to Gen. IV for you: Crobat. It was (and still is) my favorite pokemon. However, in the days of Gen. IV, he would get destroyed quite easily by most other leads and stuff. However, in Gen. V, he destroys as my opener. Basically, the answer to your problem is Gen. V. Originality is much easier and more profitable in Gen. V. Your question is outdated in its execution.

    Oh, and it still takes skill to use OU pokemon. You can make a team using the pokemon you mentioned and still lose.
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    I don't care about my pokemon other than their battling potential. If they aren't good at battling, I'm not going to use them. If I have to spend time getting my pokemon to be perfect, so be it. I'll battle your pokemon that are "raised with love" anytime, and you know what? I'll probably win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side4 View Post
    I only play through the 4th generation on wifi and Pokemon Battle Revolution, and from the past couple months I have noticed a complete lack of any originality in the teams that I have fought.

    Why must everyone use the same Pokemon on their teams? I'm talking about such pokemon as:

    Infernape (probably the most overused)
    Gyarados
    Metagross
    Garchomp
    Gengar
    Salamence
    Lucario
    Staraptor

    I'm sure over 75% of you had one or more of these on your 4th gen teams. Was it because you really liked them, or because they are like demi-gods and win too easily.

    Does EVERYONE seriously like all the same pokemon, or has winning become such a desired result that people just use whatever kills the best without actually trying to use the pokemon they like? I run a mono-dark team on Pokemon Battle Revolution, without darkrai that is, and I think it works pretty well, but it's always the same when I fight these people with the run-of-the-mill teams of infernapes and lucarios.

    My team consists of Umbreon, weavile, absol, houndoom, sharpedo, and honchkrow, none of which are seen too much on wifi or Pokemon Battle Revolution, so it's not like I'm being such a hypocrite with the same team. But the game is no fun fighting the same team over and over again, just with slightly different movesets or stats.

    I'm just wondering, where is the originality????
    Fighting types are not "unoriginal" just because they can sweep your entire mono dark team...

    Unoriginal to me is Politoed, Gliscor and Scizor. If someone is using an Infernape or Lucario, all power to them.

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    Yeah, having played Random Matchup for the first time recently, it really hacked me off how many people are using Garchomp and Infernape. I battled ten people, and eight of them used a Garchomp. FFS.

    I also saw a guy witha team of 5 Mewtwos and a Shaymin. No, I'm not joking. It must take him a lot of effort and skill to win. *sarcasm face*

    It's a little annoying, but what are you gonna do? People can use whatever pokemon they want. I believe in originality and using the pokemon I love, even if that means I occasionally lose. If other people want to just stick to the highest smogon tiers, that's entirely up to them.
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    Yes, it annoys me too a bit. Especially teams full of Garchomps and Tyranitars.

    I've used some of those Pokemon. I do look for strength, but wouldn't use Pokemon I dislike. I also like to be original, and what makes me upset... for example, I like Gengar and kinda like Garchomp too, but yeah, if I use them, I will be uncreative as hell.

    I am currently thinking about re-doing my team to make it consist only of the Pokemon I love, ignoring how many dark types I will have in my team and such.
    Last edited by vedil; 19th November 2011 at 2:23 PM.

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    Of that list, all I have is Staraptor. But I have noticed that many teams use those Pokemon, and maybe I'm at fault for having Staraptor and wanting Salamence, but I change things up. Torterra with Rock Polish for the win!
    Oh hey, I have a Nuzlocke story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by girazard View Post
    When did I say that being original and winning/being good were mutually exclusive? If no one was original then playing competitive - of any kind - would severely decrease the skill of the players.

    All I'm saying is that you shouldn't call people out for using teams that WORK. If you were complaining about them just using those sorts of teams and just playing badly (which would suggest that they really are just slapping together a team and thinking they are good just for that) then I could understand you, but it seems that you are just complaining about people using good teams.

    And, to be honest, if you think that using OU Pokemon take no effort to use, then you are incredibly mistaken. A good player with UUs like Blaziken/Blastoise/Exeggcutor would OWN a terrible OU player who thinks that you should only ever use OU Pokes in OU.
    That kind of is what I'm saying, though. People always use the same teams with no experimentation and they still lose. It's just because they have simple moves that CAN do a lot of damage, like close combat or brave bird, and they just spam it like there's no tomorrow, same with all the legends. The funny thing is that these teams aren't the teams that just sweep everyone because of how good they are, and that's why I call people who use those teams lazy. People are just using the same pokemon. Honestly, maybe it's not because they are just really good or easy to use, maybe people just like using the same pokemon over and over again. I don't have an answer for it, I'm just asking why people keep using the same pokemon in their battles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rey Alejandro View Post
    Okay, it's not being too lazy to win, it's that sometimes someone's favorite pokemon is just bad. I love Golurk. I love him to death. But I tried using him in competitive battles in the early days of Gen. V, and he got destroyed. Every time. I gave him what I figured were the best EVs to take advantage of his stats, great moves, and you know what? He still lost. So I'm not going to use him competitively ever again. Oh, I forget, you don't play Gen. V. Fine, I'll go to Gen. IV for you: Crobat. It was (and still is) my favorite pokemon. However, in the days of Gen. IV, he would get destroyed quite easily by most other leads and stuff. However, in Gen. V, he destroys as my opener. Basically, the answer to your problem is Gen. V. Originality is much easier and more profitable in Gen. V. Your question is outdated in its execution.

    Oh, and it still takes skill to use OU pokemon. You can make a team using the pokemon you mentioned and still lose.
    Crobat isn't bad in 4th gen, you just have to train him right. I have a friend who uses two crobats on his team, both fully ev trained in speed and attack, and they can be quite a powerful pair. Crobats can be really fast, and give them something like brave bird and they become powerful too. I don't really know what a go lurk is, but crobat is far from terrible in 4th gen in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simipour View Post
    Fighting types are not "unoriginal" just because they can sweep your entire mono dark team...

    Unoriginal to me is Politoed, Gliscor and Scizor. If someone is using an Infernape or Lucario, all power to them.
    Of that list there are two fighting types lmao. I didn't even specifically mention the fighting type in the original post, i just said infernape and Lucario, what are you reading?

    Also, unoriginal just means the pokemon that you see in almost everyone's teams, like the above mentioned pokemon. Politoed is rarely seen on Pokemon Battle Revolution, and the same goes for gliscor, but since you probably didn't read the original post entirely you will argue something like you see politoed all the time in UU battles, so whatever floats your boat man.

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    ....You realize that you're the only person still stuck in the 4th gen, right? Everyone commenting is talking about the Black and White metagame.
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    I don't care about my pokemon other than their battling potential. If they aren't good at battling, I'm not going to use them. If I have to spend time getting my pokemon to be perfect, so be it. I'll battle your pokemon that are "raised with love" anytime, and you know what? I'll probably win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side4 View Post
    Crobat isn't bad in 4th gen, you just have to train him right. I have a friend who uses two crobats on his team, both fully ev trained in speed and attack, and they can be quite a powerful pair. Crobats can be really fast, and give them something like brave bird and they become powerful too. I don't really know what a go lurk is, but crobat is far from terrible in 4th gen in my opinion.
    Whaaa??

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    OU: in that tier there are good pokes who much trainers use so for originalilty use UU/NU or RU
    image file size too large, removed - mod

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    Quote Originally Posted by girazard View Post
    You CAN use UU/RU/whatever in OU. Where did you get that idea from?
    From the people who say "Good trainers CAN use UU/RU in the Metagame, but "know better."" IMO, only the worst trainers "know better," I think the best trainers use the Pokemon they like regardless of tiers, and can kick butt with them anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rey Alejandro View Post
    Basically, the answer to your problem is Gen. V. Originality is much easier and more profitable in Gen. V. Your question is outdated in its execution.
    I'd have to disagree with you there, as the problem with overused Pokes is still present in the Metagame.
    Last edited by MugoUrth; 19th November 2011 at 5:44 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MugoUrth View Post
    From the people who say "Good trainers CAN use UU/RU in the Metagame, but "know better."" IMO, only the worst trainers "know better," I think the best trainers use the Pokemon they like regardless of tiers, and can kick butt with them anyway.
    You are referring to that argument in the Smogon thread in Competitive Discussion, right? The whole "UU/RU in the Metagame, but "know better" argument is not based around the idea that 'OU, ergo stronger'. It's about choosing the best possible Pokemon for your team. You don't restrict yourself to using ONLY OU, you use the Pokemon that will make your team most effective. If I need a rain-abuser for my team and it would be disadvantageous to use Toxicroak/Dragonite/whatever (because of team synergy) that doesn't mean I can't use Tornadus if it does the job I want it to do best of the Pokemon I can use.

    However, choosing teams this way usually end up being OU Pokemon, because they are, more often than not, the best Pokemon to use. Pokemon are defined as OU not because they have been specifically defined as being better than the others in UU/RU, but because people will use the Pokemon that are best to use on their team, and will therefore be used in the OU meta.

    Winning by using a worse Pokemon when you have some better options does not make you a good player. It makes your opponent, who lost to a sub-par team that was not as good as it could be, a bad player. Take Bibarel. You have no real reason to use him in OU (or any other metagame, TBH) when you have better options. As a Baton Pass recipient, it's outclassed. Moody is banned. Unaware is done better than any other user (and you really don't need boosts to kill Bibarel and render it worthless as an anti-booster anyway). There's no real reason you should use Bibarel over any other Pokemon on your serious competitive team. Winning with him does NOT make you a good player. Building the best team you can is also indicative of skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by MugoUrth View Post
    I'd have to disagree with you there, as the problem with overused Pokes is still present in the Metagame.
    ...I'd say that 5th gen OU is pretty diverse right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side4 View Post
    That kind of is what I'm saying, though. People always use the same teams with no experimentation and they still lose. It's just because they have simple moves that CAN do a lot of damage, like close combat or brave bird, and they just spam it like there's no tomorrow, same with all the legends. The funny thing is that these teams aren't the teams that just sweep everyone because of how good they are, and that's why I call people who use those teams lazy. People are just using the same pokemon. Honestly, maybe it's not because they are just really good or easy to use, maybe people just like using the same pokemon over and over again. I don't have an answer for it, I'm just asking why people keep using the same pokemon in their battles.
    Using a team full of 'original' Pokemon and losing somehow makes you better than someone who loses using Pokemon that are 'overpowered'?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Using UU/RU Pokemon in ways that doesn't actually take advantage of some REAL niche in OU is like letting a horse poop on your chest; then when people ask why you let it do that you defend yourself by saying "well now I have all this horse poop", ignoring everyone who tries to reason with you that this isn't really a good thing either.
    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Best. Analogy. Ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by girazard View Post
    You are referring to that argument in the Smogon thread in Competitive Discussion, right? The whole "UU/RU in the Metagame, but "know better" argument is not based around the idea that 'OU, ergo stronger'. It's about choosing the best possible Pokemon for your team. You don't restrict yourself to using ONLY OU, you use the Pokemon that will make your team most effective. If I need a rain-abuser for my team and it would be disadvantageous to use Toxicroak/Dragonite/whatever (because of team synergy) that doesn't mean I can't use Tornadus if it does the job I want it to do best of the Pokemon I can use.

    However, choosing teams this way usually end up being OU Pokemon, because they are, more often than not, the best Pokemon to use. Pokemon are defined as OU not because they have been specifically defined as being better than the others in UU/RU, but because people will use the Pokemon that are best to use on their team, and will therefore be used in the OU meta.

    Winning by using a worse Pokemon when you have some better options does not make you a good player. It makes your opponent, who lost to a sub-par team that was not as good as it could be, a bad player. Take Bibarel. You have no real reason to use him in OU (or any other metagame, TBH) when you have better options. As a Baton Pass recipient, it's outclassed. Moody is banned. Unaware is done better than any other user (and you really don't need boosts to kill Bibarel and render it worthless as an anti-booster anyway). There's no real reason you should use Bibarel over any other Pokemon on your serious competitive team. Winning with him does NOT make you a good player. Building the best team you can is also indicative of skill.



    ...I'd say that 5th gen OU is pretty diverse right now.



    Using a team full of 'original' Pokemon and losing somehow makes you better than someone who loses using Pokemon that are 'overpowered'?
    No, but I think winning with a team full of original pokemon makes you a better player because you don't rely on the normal OU's that everyone else uses.

    It doesn't matter what team you LOSE with, if you lose then your just not as good, and even the people with the OU teams can agree to that. I'm talking about actually winning with teams full of pokemon that you ACTUALLY like. Isn't that what pokemon is about, finding the Pokemon you love and training them to be the best possible, do people seriously only care about winning against other people, that they are just forced to use the ones that are "overpowered."

    And yeah, so many people are like, "well I actually like winning, so I use them" which I just think is sad, because apparently people now are so fully invested in winning that they have to use these kinds of teams. I guess I'm just playing a different game from the rest of you, where the enjoyment of using pokemon I actually like is greater than the enjoyment I receive from using unoriginal and boring teams full of pokemon I don't like. And its not like I'm constantly losing with cruddy Pokemon that I like. I pick the pokemon I like, and then I learn how to use them effectively, and it actually works out really well, and so the argument that people should just use the OU pokemon because they are the best is incorrect. If you have the skills to make a team good, then you can basically put any pokemon you want on it, and I choose to put my favorites on my team.

    But to each his own, I guess it's pointless to try to explain this concept to those who only care about winning...
    Last edited by Dark Side4; 19th November 2011 at 10:20 PM.

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