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Thread: legendary's

  1. #26

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    It's threads like these that make me dislike the word "legendary".

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    Well, the thing about Ubers in-game is that they are often not in a scenario exactly like a competitive match. You never face a Speed Boost Blaziken in-game. I've never recalled the AI using Sandstorm to raise the speed of an Excadrill, nor do I think it ever paired it with a sand-starter. Being overleveled helps significantly too. And of course, if you're the one using Ubers, do you think the AI's going to complain?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    It's threads like these that make me dislike the word "legendary".
    Why did Barney Stinson of how i met your mother pop into my head once I read that?

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  4. #29
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    Well I don't like how people use a lot of legendaries in competitions. It's kind of cheap. Nintendo has banned a lot of Pokemon, which is good. I mean, Kyogre would get STAB AND the rain power up, that's pretty much deadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Well I don't like how people use a lot of legendaries in competitions. It's kind of cheap. Nintendo has banned a lot of Pokemon, which is good. I mean, Kyogre would get STAB AND the rain power up, that's pretty much deadly.
    You got to admit though, have you ever had trouble killing a Regi? Not every legendary is godly.

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  6. #31

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    Let me just say that if my opponent came at me using Regigigas/Phione/Articuno/Mesprit/Entei/Regice, I'd be ecstatic.

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    I Think legendary pokemon should be acceptable in any situation. Although i dont use them very often, Everyone has them, therefor everyone should be able to defend them. A pokemon is a pokemon, And the best pokemon team can defend against any other pokemon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BelacOnslaught View Post
    I Think legendary pokemon should be acceptable in any situation. Although i dont use them very often, Everyone has them, therefor everyone should be able to defend them. A pokemon is a pokemon, And the best pokemon team can defend against any other pokemon.
    However, with this reasoning, everyone who would want to win would almost have to use Legendaries.

    No, having a separation between the Uber-Legendaries and the rest of the Pokemon world is the best option for the masses. Not everyone uses Legendaries, actually.

    From my experience, most people who use Legendaries completely (when battling random people) tend to not really know how to use their Pokemon in the first place, so just having slightly more advanced knowledge of Pokemon Battling would be able to put you at an edge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BelacOnslaught View Post
    I Think legendary pokemon should be acceptable in any situation. Although i dont use them very often, Everyone has them, therefor everyone should be able to defend them. A pokemon is a pokemon, And the best pokemon team can defend against any other pokemon.
    Well, this is kind of true, but you get some like Palkia who are just too hard to counter...Let's not get into it, but there is an Uber tier for a reason. Any legendary pokemon, or any pokemon at that, who is too powerful will be banned.
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  10. #35
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    I agree Garchomp rebanned Blaziken banned, Excadrill banned, and Thundrus where banned too ubers because they overpower pokemon in the OU tier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kal2400 View Post
    I agree Garchomp rebanned Blaziken banned, Excadrill banned, and Thundrus where banned too ubers because they overpower pokemon in the OU tier.
    Well, only one of those you mentioned is actually a legendary.....

    By my count in my earlier post there are 19 legendaries in Ubers (counting Deoxys, Deoxys-A, and the two Giratina formes as each a separate mon) and thirty-something legal in OU. So the average legendary isn't that overpowered, although there is a large fraction of them that are.

    In fact, legendaries are often a a disadvantage. They are usually dependent on their level-up movepools and don't have access to Egg moves. Assuming you don't just use PO, there's only a few in each game, and you can only get one without hacking since you can't breed it. You couldn't breed for a different nature, better IVs, or egg moves like normal pokemon.

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    Well here's a complete breakdown on all of the legendaries and their impact on competitive battling:

    Articuno: First, it has a 4x Stealth Rock weakness. Second, it has no moves, especially since Sheer Cold is banned. At best it can SubRoost. All you need to worry about are Ice and Flying attacks.
    Zapdos: A pretty solid mon, but not overpowered. You usually have a good idea what kind of attacks it will have. Tyranitar stops it well, you can force it out for SR damage, and a good fraction of sweepers carry Rock or Ice attacks.
    Moltress: 4x SR weakness again. Fairly shallow movepool. Volcarona is a better choice. Can still be useful in lower tiers though.
    Mewtwo: I'm not going to argue against this one. 110/154/130 offenses with 106/90/90 defenses. Also really good movepool.
    Mew: 100x6 stats aren't what they used to be. Base 100 speed only ties with most legendaries these days. You want a Nasty Plot Sweeper? Zoroark and Azelf do that with better stats. You want a support wall? Chansey/Blissey do that better. Baton Pass? Smeargle can have Spore and Shell Smash/Quiver Dance. Its typing makes killing it not too difficult.
    Raikou: Good special Sweeper, but not the widest movepool and Earthquake's pretty much a OHKO
    Entei: Pretty small movepool for a physical sweeper, and Arcanine has access to Fighting, Electric, and Ground moves with more useful abilities.
    Suicune: Suicune is better as a wall, which means Taunt is a problem for the classic CroCune sets. Ferrothorn, Blissey, and anyone with Water Absorb/Storm Drain pretty much make it worthless.
    Ho-Oh: Basically a Moltress that's actually good. Brave Bird and Sacred Fires off of a base 130 attack? And 106/90/154 defenses? Yeah, that's bannable.
    Lugia: Some of the best defenses in the game, and it has Roost. Yeah it's understandable that it's uber.
    Celebi: IIRC Grass/Psychic is the type combo with the most weaknesses. If you don't have something on your team with an attack that OHKOs Celebi something's wrong with your teambuilding. Also struggles to take down Dragons.
    Regice: Mono-Ice typing is terrible defensively. And it has base 50 speed. Easy kill.
    Registeel: This one has better defenses, more resistances, and can use Curse well enough. Still easy prey to an Earthquake, Close Combat, or a few Flamethrowers though.
    Regirock: If you don't have anyone with a Water, Steel, Fighting, Ground, or Grass attack on your team, you probably should go back to the drawing board with your team
    Latios: Not that bad without Soul Dew. You can Pursuit or Sucker Punch it, especially since many versions are choiced. Gengar also speed ties non-scarfed ones.
    Latias: I actually find this one more annoying. But it still has trouble with Scizor, Tar, Blissey, etc.
    Groudon: Uber, 'nuff said
    Kyogre: The most popular uber for good reason. Autorain, Water Spout, and Thunder....next please
    Rayquaza: Base 150 attacks + DD+Extremespeed? It might be uber
    Jirachi: another base 100X6, but with a super-awesome ability. However, it's still checked by Ground types, Heatran, Volcarona, Scarftom-W, Magnezone...
    Deoxys: Normal and Attack versions are def. uber. Speed, however, us usually used for support and is on the frail side. Defense is awesome if used correctly, but it's also setup fodder for DDers and Volcarona, and Scizor laughs at it.
    Azelf: Solid offenses and a decent lead, but pretty much OHKOed by Pursuit/Sucker Punch or some neutral attacks.
    Uxie: More of a defensive utility mon. Unlikely that it will OHKO you.
    Mespirit: The worst of the trio. Bad speed that lets it get KOed by many sweepers
    Dialga: Uber and only Dragon IIRC that isn't weak to Dragon
    Palkia: Yep. Only one weakness and better speed.
    Giratina: My favorite uber. Has over 500 HP at max. Next...
    Cresselia: Not an offensive threat unless it gets a ton of CMs in. Also needs to worry about weather
    Darkrai: Nobody likes 80% accurate sleep moves from a base 125 speed mon = ubers
    Manaphy: It has a move that offers +3 SA, plus good defenses and instant Rest awakening with Hydration. It would definitely not be OU this generation.
    Phione: It's just a base 80X6 mon without Tail Glow. Nothing to fear
    Heatran: I kinda feel like this one was meant to not be a legendary in the storyline, similar to Volcarona. While it can be annoying, it fear Water, Earthquakes, Fighting moves, and furthermore only has base 77 speed.
    Regigigas: You have 5 turns to take pot shots at it.
    Shaymin: Shaymin-S is understandably uber, but normal Shaymin is outclasses by Ferrothorn and Celebi (although Seed Flare can be fun). Also has a decent number of weaknesses.
    Arceus: Don't go there.
    Victini: Fairly easy to check just like other Fire types.
    Cobalion: Outclassed by Lucario and has no moves
    Terrakion: A double-edged sword. Its typing is great offensively and bad defensively. Good speed, but that doesn't matter when there's Bullet Punches/Mach Punches/Aqua Jets to fear.
    Virizion: Good for anti-weather, but has to worry about Psychics, Fire, Ice, and Flying
    Tornadus: Understandably the inferior one in the trio. Relies heavily on Hurricane and frail.
    Thundurus: Already voted uber; basically a frailer yet faster Zapdos with Nasty Plot
    Landorus: Not much to worry about. Basically a more offensive Gliscor without Poison Heal.
    Reshiram: Uber
    Zekrom: Uber
    Kyurem: Remember what I said about Regice? Well here it is again. While it has great offensive stats, its physical attack goes wasted. Bullet Punches and Mach Punches easily puts it in its place. Also weather-reliant for max Blizzard spam.

    Going to skip Keldeo, Meklotta, and Genesect because they don't exist yet.

    Furthermore, a breakdown of legendaries by tier:
    Uber: Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys (A), Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Kyogre, Groudon, Lugia, Zekrom, Reshiram, Ho-Oh, Manaphy, Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Shaymin-S, Thundurus
    OU: Terrakion, Celebi, Virizion, Jirachi, Lati@s, Heatran, Deoxys-S, Landorus
    BL: Kyurem
    UU: Azelf, Cobalion, Cresselia, Deoxys-D, Mew, Raikou, Registeel, Suicune, Tornadus, Victini, Zapdos, Shaymin
    RU: Entei, Moltress, Uxie
    NU: Articuno, Phione, Regice, Regirock, Regigigas, Mespirit

    And non-legendaries in Ubers:
    Blaziken
    Garchomp,
    Excadrill
    Wobbufett and Wynaut*
    Smeargle, Bidoof, and Octillery**
    Ludicolo, Kingdra, Kabutops, Magikarp, Mantine...***

    *=While not banned this generation, these two were banned in Gen III & IV thanks to Shadow Tag + Encore
    **=All of these have access to the ability Moody, which is so broken it's even banned in Ubers. It allows a Bidoof to take down an Arceus with enough luck
    ***=These guys got Swift Swim, which means that in all tiers below Ubers you cannot use then in conjunction with a Drizzler on your team. The combo is legal in ubers though.

    Not to mention that if Lugia gets Multiscale, the odds of 0HKOing it goes to absolute zero unless hax or SR kicks in. Even Rampardos with all his strength in Head Smash has a hard time 2HKOing a properly trained Lugia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeMaster366 View Post
    Not to mention that if Lugia gets Multiscale, the odds of 0HKOing it goes to absolute zero unless hax or SR kicks in. Even Rampardos with all his strength in Head Smash has a hard time 2HKOing a properly trained Lugia.
    You're right, but I ignored DW abilities while making that since they don't exist yet and I don't want to judge something that fast (not to mention half of them either don't get something new or get something silly like Unnerve or Telepathy).

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    And non-legendaries in Ubers:
    Blaziken
    Garchomp,
    Excadrill
    Wobbufett and Wynaut*
    Smeargle, Bidoof, and Octillery**
    Ludicolo, Kingdra, Kabutops, Magikarp, Mantine...***

    *=While not banned this generation, these two were banned in Gen III & IV thanks to Shadow Tag + Encore
    **=All of these have access to the ability Moody, which is so broken it's even banned in Ubers. It allows a Bidoof to take down an Arceus with enough luck
    ***=These guys got Swift Swim, which means that in all tiers below Ubers you cannot use then in conjunction with a Drizzler on your team. The combo is legal in ubers though.
    Smogon did it Magikarp is uber!!!!!!!!

    you forgot salamance then gen 3-4 uber cause of... why was he uber again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    you forgot salamance then gen 3-4 uber cause of... why was he uber again?
    Nothing could effectively counter all it's sets. Physically Defensive Skarmory can phaze away DDmence, but what if it's running Fire Blast? etc. It overcentralized the game and (eventually) got banned.

    My stand on the legendary argument is a simple one. Legendary =/= overpowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

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    The good legendaries are banned, and the others are generally outclassed. Unless you are battling Mewtwos or Giratina's on PBR or something, i can't see where your coming from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurawarrior8 View Post
    My stand on the legendary argument is a simple one. Legendary =/= overpowered.
    Regice and Moltres for example. Outclassed by Charizard and that other guy.
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  18. #43
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    I prefer to not use legendaries, though I have no problem with their use in competitive battle (only in-game). I have an Entei, Raikou, and Celebi are use, but not often, and a Reshiram and Rayquaza, bu I very rarely use them.
    There are a few I'd like to use, such as Regigigas, but... I'm too lazy, and I prefer to not use them. They're legendary for a reason, and I'd like to keep it that way.


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    All the examples of Uber regular Pokemon, and non-uber legendaries just show that we don't, and shouldn't, look at whether a Pokemon is legendary or not when deciding if it can be used. It should be based solely on movepool, stats and ability.
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    Doesn't a Regirock in sand storm have super high def and sp.def to make great wall.

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    Regi rock has common weaknesses to fighting, ground,steel and grass with low hp and speed to boot
    also with the many different weather starters it is not staying around for long


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    The reason i don't really use legendary pokemon isn't because they are broken(which they aren't as other people have already explained) it's because i just naturally don't like most of them. If i don't like a pokemon, i won't use it. Pokemon is mostly about having fun, and if your not having fun, what's the point. I'd rather be a happy loser than an unhappy winner. Luckily for me, most pokemon i do like, so I don't have to be a happy loser or an unhappy winner, i can be a happy winner. As already explained above, legendarys aren't broken, most of them really aren't that good. Simple as that.




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  23. #48

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    Legendary Pokémon =/= Uber Pokémon

    Articuno
    Moltres
    Mew
    Entei
    Raikou
    Suicune
    Regice
    Regirock
    Registeel
    Deoxys D
    Mesprit
    Uxie
    Azelf
    Phione (For those of you who consider it legendary)
    Shaymin
    Victini
    Cobalion
    Virizion
    Keldeo
    Meloetta

    don't do too good in OU imo. Some of you may disagree with some of the Pokémon here but it's just my opinion.

  24. #49

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    how can you lump keldeo and meloetta in there when they havent been released yet anyware in the world? any way many legendaries just dont have what it takes to be truly legendary, the only things that make them "legendary" are 1) they are one of a kind in the game and have a low catch rate. 2) they normaly have slightly higher base stats. 3)or they are required to gain either access to a certain area of the game or to obtain a certain pokemon Examples:Regirock,Registeel,Regice to get Regigigas and now Verzion,Terakion, and Cobalion to get Keldeo once it has been released.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilightphoenix View Post
    how can you lump keldeo and meloetta in there when they havent been released yet anyware in the world?
    DW Tier!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Using UU/RU Pokemon in ways that doesn't actually take advantage of some REAL niche in OU is like letting a horse poop on your chest; then when people ask why you let it do that you defend yourself by saying "well now I have all this horse poop", ignoring everyone who tries to reason with you that this isn't really a good thing either.
    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Best. Analogy. Ever.

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