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Thread: Community POTW #48

  1. #26
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    Torkoal? Who's Torkoal?
    Torkoal@Leftovers
    Calm nature
    White Smoke/Shell Armor
    252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp. Def
    ~Amnesia
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Lava Plume/Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
    ~Protect

    Well, looks like my prediction that we'd be doing Bisharp this week was kinda off. Nevertheless, Torkoal is a cool Pokémon. Here, we abuse Torkoal's nice defenses, particularly its incredible Defense stat and usable HP. Amnesia boosts its Special Defense to viable levels. Stealth Rock is good for supporting your team. Protect allows for extra Leftovers recovery. And now we come to the status move. Burn and Bad Poison are both good status ailments to inflict on an opponent. Lava Plume is an option to prevent Torkoal from becoming total Taunt bait.

    Item is obvious. Either ability is usable here, depends on what frightens you more; the possibility of stats being lowered, or the possibility of critical hits.

    TorKurse
    Torkoal@Leftovers
    Careful nature
    White Smoke/Shell Armor
    252 HP/252 Sp. Def/4 Atk
    ~Curse
    ~Rest
    ~Sleep Talk
    ~Gyro Ball/Rock Slide

    This set attempts to capitalize on Torkoal's semi-decent special bulk, hence the EVs. Curse increases Torkoal's Attack and Defense at the cost of Speed, allowing it to attempt a bulky sweep. The RestTalk combo is there for quick and reliable recovery.

    Item keeps Torkoal alive moar. Ability I already covered.

    Other options:
    *Shell Smash may be the best stat boosting move in the history of the universe, but consider that with a +Speed nature, 252 Speed EVs, and a Speed IV of 31, after one Shell Smash, Torkoal only hits 304 Speed. Just what the hell is it supposed to outspeed like that? It needs to use Shell Smash twice just to be able to outspeed anything. And given the defense drops, nothing's ever likely to get in more than one Shell Smash.
    *Base 85 Special Attack isn't bad, so Torkoal can attempt a special set. Flamethrower/Sludge Bomb/Earth Power/Hidden Power (Dragon). Unfortunately, that's more or less Torkoal's entire notable special movepool. Unless you use a sun team, in which case SolarBeam is an option.
    *Clear Smog can work its way into a defensive set to discourage setting up. It's illegal with Stealth Rock on a Shell Armor Torkoal, though.

    Abilities:
    *White Smoke: Prevents Torkoal's stats from being lowered. Unfortunately, does not prevent Torkoal from lowering its own stats with its own moves, so Curse will still lower Speed, Shell Smash will still lower Defense and Special Defense, and Overheat will, unfortunately, still lower Special Attack.
    *Shell Armor: Torkoal's Hidden Ability. Prevents critical hits, which will be far more common than stat reductions. If you want a Shell Armor Torkoal with Stealth Rock, however, it's illegal with any of its egg moves. And if you want a Shell Armor Torkoal with any of its egg moves, it's illegal with Stealth Rock.


    Partners:
    Special walls aren't a bad idea. Be sure to also have a Heatran counter lying in wait.


    Counters:
    Any Torkoal without Earthquake (which it never runs) is screwed over pretty thoroughly by Heatran. Especially that first defensive set. Heatran can't be burned or poisoned, and packs Flash Fire to absorb those Wills-O-Wisp and Lava Plumes. Taunt doesn't screw Torkoal over completely, but it does cripple it significantly. And beware of Stealth Rock, as Torkoal is weak to it.


    Opinion:
    Another oft-overlooked Pokémon that's so cool and yet so messed up in terms of stats and/or movepool. Torkoal might have made a great defensive Pokémon if Fire wasn't such a shitty defensive type. Could be worse, though. No quadruple weaknesses to common types, like Aggron, Bastiodon, and Probopass. What is it with GameFreak anyway, always trying to force Rock/Steel on us as a defensive typing? It sucks as a defensive typing! Ahem. But I digress. I'll save my ranting for when we actually cover Aggron, Bastiodon, or Probopass.

    Prediction for next week:
    Arbok

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  2. #27
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    Torkoal is a tricky Pokémon to use. Its painful base 20 Speed calls out for Trick Room support, but base 85 Attack and Special Attack means it won’t be hitting much very hard anyways. And sadly, it doesn’t have many ways to increase its offense. Torkoal is one of the few blessed with Shell Smash, but there’s no point to using it with such awful Speed: you’d have to use it twice to truly outrun any big threat, and by then your defenses will be so frail you might as well pick another Pokémon suitable for the job instead.

    At the very least, Torkoal does have the potential to be a decent bulky supporter for your team. It has access to Amnesia which means it can patch up its bad Special Defense. It can also set up Stealth Rock as well as use Rapid Spin against anyone doing the same thing.


    Abilities:
    White Smoke – Prevents the opponent from lowering your stats. Apparently, this is fine in areas like the Battle Frontier or the Battle Subway, but in true competitive battling, White Smoke may see little use.

    Shell Armor – Prevents Critical Hits from landing on Torkoal. If you’re going on the defensive route, I guess this would help. I’ve mentioned in past POTW how Shell Armor has never proven its worth to me as a superior ability choice, so I unfortunately can’t be of any help here.



    Tank + Stealth Spinner
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: White Smoke/Shell Armor
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
    Nature: Relaxed (+ Def, - Spd) OR Sassy (+ Sp. Def, - Spd)
    - Amnesia
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball / Flamethrower / Clear Smog

    Torkoal’s not fast, it’s not very strong, but it can prepare itself to stall other opponents. Amnesia sharply boosts its Special Defense, allowing it to become a mixed sponge. Stealth Rock is a nice entry hazard against your opponent’s team. Rapid Spin keeps your opponent from also setting Stealth Rock or the Spikes on you. Finally, the last slot can be devoted to an offensive attack so Torkoal has more to use than... well, Rapid Spin. Gyro Ball increases in power the slower Torkoal is. Flamethrower is a signature Fire-type attack. Clear Smog will reset all stat changes the target has made, reducing their sweeping/bulking capabilites. It’s essentially a variation of Haze, but Clear Smog lets you pick whose stats are affected rather than everyone, including your own teammates’ stats.

    Torkoal does not have any way to heal itself outside of Rest, so Leftovers is the only way it can regain health.


    Other Options:
    Toxic and Will-o-wisp for status support
    • If you have Gravity in effect or some other way to increase Torkoal’s accuracy, Inferno will deal damage on top of always inflicting a burn on the target.
    Heat Wave strikes both targets in 2-v-2 and has more power than Flamethrower, just a little less accuracy
    Curse is the only other way to raise Torkoal’s stats (especially its Attack), but it already has gargantuan Defense and should really be concerned about fixing its lackluster Special Defense. Lowering its Speed will assist it in a Trick Room as well as power up Gyro Ball even further.
    Flail increases in power the lower Torkoal’s HP is.
    Yawn can cause your opponent to force-switch.
    Eruption is very powerful, but decreases in power the lower your HP is. However, if Torkoal’s bulkiness is working well and keeping its health up rather high, Eruption will prove effective.


    Countering:
    Until it has used Amnesia, Torkoal is only a physical wall. Because of its low Speed, you can easily take it out with a super effective Special Attack before it has time to bulk up. Other than that, you might want Rapid Spin support in case Stealth Rock is thrown your way (literally). It might have Trick Room support, but it still won’t be able to do much (unless maybe your name is Ferrothorn, but even then...).


    Attacks List:
    Amnesia – Lvl. 49
    Clear Smog - EGG
    Curse – Lvl. 12
    Eruption - EGG
    Flail – Lvl. 52
    Flamethrower – TM35/Lvl. 28
    Gyro Ball – TM74
    Heat Wave – Lvl. 55
    Rapid Spin – Lvl. 23
    Stealth Rock – Dream World/Gen IV TM76
    Toxic – TM06
    Will-o-wisp – TM61
    Yawn - EGG
    I'm thinking about creating a printer-friendly Pokédex guidebook for Black and White versions. Let me know what you think about it here.


  3. #28
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    I Liek Turtlez
    Torkoal @ Leftovers
    Impish
    252 Def, 200 Sp Def, 56 HP
    -Stealth Rock
    -Curse
    -Protect
    -Flame Charge

    This is probably an odd set. Stealth Rock sets up hazards. Curse strengthens it offensively and defensively while Protect, well, protects. Flame Charge gets rid of the Speed drop from Curse and gets stronger as well.
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  4. #29
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    ^Even with flame charge, it's speed is terrible and won't outrun anything, and even though it's STAB, EQ will do more damage outside of the sun. Protect looks like of useless, to.
    Venemo Oscuridad - 6 Battles
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  5. #30
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    If you are holding a White Herb, and you use Shell Smash, will that fix both your Defence and Special Defence, or just one of them?

  6. #31
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    Torkoal really is crap. I like him, but he's crap.
    Great defense, and... Well, "okay" attacking stats.
    But he actually has quite the movepool. A wide range of support moves, but stats that won't let him utilize them too well.
    And not to forget, a bad typing for a defensive pokémon, with SR weakness and weakness to three of the most commonly used attack types; Ground, Water and Rock.

    This moveset is maybe a bit unorthodox, and won't do in any higher tier, but if it gets to set up against a weak physical attacker, it sometimes works.

    Can't remember the name of the moveset
    - Amnesia
    - Rest
    - Lava Plume / Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin / Yawn / Toxic / Will-o-wisp
    Item attached: Leftovers
    Ability: White Smoke
    EVs and Nature:
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp.Def
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Sp.Atk)

    Speaks for itself. EVs and nature to max HP and Defense, since Amnesia fixes the Special Defense. Rest is its only recovery move (sadly).
    Lava Plume is great, with a high chance of burning the opponent. May be traded for Fire Blast for more damage if you use another status move.
    The support move is of your own choice, SR is always great. Getting rid of SR is also nice (just not too appealing to switch Torkoal in, to spin them away, due to his SR-weakness). Yawn to force switches or induce sleep, Toxic does great damage over time. Will-o-wisp if you don't feel like hoping for Lava Plume to burn them.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Haze View Post
    If you are holding a White Herb, and you use Shell Smash, will that fix both your Defence and Special Defence, or just one of them?
    Both of them but only once in a match

  8. #33

    Default Clear smog

    I haven't seen any sets that have clear smog in it yet (as of now. I'm still browsing). In my opinion, clear smog and haze are super important now that we have tons of monsters with stat raising moves. Got any ideas?

    My favorites happen to be mid-evolved poison types.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlKirbyZombie View Post
    I haven't seen any sets that have clear smog in it yet (as of now. I'm still browsing). In my opinion, clear smog and haze are super important now that we have tons of monsters with stat raising moves. Got any ideas?
    It was mentioned but lacking a recovery move torkoal isn't the best user of this move.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GirlKirbyZombie View Post
    I haven't seen any sets that have clear smog in it yet (as of now. I'm still browsing). In my opinion, clear smog and haze are super important now that we have tons of monsters with stat raising moves. Got any ideas?
    It was mentioned but lacking a recovery move torkoal isn't the best user of this move.
    Not to mention, Torkoal's STAB Fire gives you a better option than any Poison Type Move for coverage, unless the opponent has Flash Fire and isn't Heatran or is a Water Type that doesn't resist Poison.

  11. #36

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    The main problem I see with Torkoal using Clear Smog is that a Clear Smog user needs to be able to negate the boosts before the opponent has the chance to use them, or at least be able to survive an attack before negating the boost and keep going. Torkoal has neither the speed nor survivability needed (special bulk is terrible, and it lacks recovery to take advantage of its physical bulk). I guess it stops Curse users pretty well, although those tend to be few and far between.

  12. #37
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    Shell Smash is the way to go with Torkoal imo, although you could go for a wall with Amnesia + Will o wisp
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  13. #38
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    Overview: Oh Torkoal.

    You are a slow defensive Pokemon in an fast offensive Pokemon's World. Your passive-aggressive ways mean nothing in a world where Earthquake, Stone Edge, Stealth Rock, and Bulky Waters rule the day. In a society where being the top of the class means everything you, dear sir, are outclassed. As a spinner you're outclassed. As a setter for Stealth Rocks you're outclassed. As a Curse user you're out classed. As a wall you're outclassed. As a Shell Smasher you are, again, outclassed.

    Fear not, sir, for you still have fans who will attempt to use you. I use offensive Torkoal in Dream World, but my variation is banned from Standard. Here's another Standard-friendly version.

    Some Turtles just want to watch the World Burn

    Torkoal @ White Herb / Life Orb
    EV: 252 Defense / 252 HP / 4 Attack or Special Attack
    Relaxed (+ Defense / - Speed)
    White Smoke
    Body Slam
    Lava Plume
    Shell Smash
    Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin / Yawn / Toxic

    With only 85 Attack Torkoal isn't going to kill much even after a Shell Smash. I saved it for situations where I thought it would be " safe " to smash: when I thought the opponent would switch, wouldn't KO Torkoal, or would use a set up move. Shell Smash's primary objective is to boost its attack so it can either pluck off a Pokemon or leave it in a state where I can easily finish it off with another Pokemon.

    If you don't think you'll get off a Shell Smash go straight onto the offensive. As said before this Torkoal's goal is to cripple, not KO, so you'd have either Body Slam for Paralysis or Lava Plume for Burns. Torkoal did well surprising Taunt users who thought it was Taunt Bait.

    The last attack depends on what you want Torkoal to ultimately accomplish. Torkoal could spin but he's the second worst spinner in the game in front of Delibird due to a Stealth Rock weakness and no way to recover from it. With such low speed he isn't a surefire way to set up Stealth Rock, either, unless you sacrafice any offensive usefulness Torkoal might have by running Focus Sash. Yawn and Toxic round out your status inflicting options.

    I usually lead with Torkoal, but if you have Spin Support you can experiment with Torkoal as a supporting Team Member.
    Last edited by An00bis; 27th November 2011 at 11:49 PM.

  14. #39
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    Failed.....
    Last edited by NAMBIRI; 28th November 2011 at 12:22 AM.
    Nambiri

  15. #40
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    I like Torkoal. He's just so cool. I was actually planning on training one, so I'm pretty happy about this . He has fantastic Defense, with three weaknesses, all of which are annoyingly common. His Speed is non-existent, and his Attack and Special Attack are both usable. His Hp is ok. Special Defense is ok I guess... His moveset is decent from what I've seen so far, and it's great he can work on either side of the attacking spectrum. On to the abilities (which, tbh, aren't very good).

    White Smoke: Stats can't be lowered. Would be nicer if it counted for Shell Smash as well.
    Shell Armor: No crits. Eh, it's ok.

    Screw the Shell, I'm all powerful!
    - Shell Smash
    - Heat Wave
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    Item: White Herb
    Ability: Doesn't matter -__-
    EVs and Nature: Modest (+Sp. Atk, -Atk)
    252 Hp/252 Sp. Atk/ 4 Def
    Bulky Shell Smash. Heat Wave is STAB, Earth Power is just a good move, and HP [Grass] takes care of all of his weaknesses. I guess you could change Modest and the 252 Sp. Atk EVs to something more suited for Defenses, but whatever. White Herb to stay bulky.

    Curses, I'm too slow!
    - Curse
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: White Smoke
    EVs and Nature: Sassy (+Sp. Def, -Spd)
    252 Hp/4 Atk/252 Sp. Def
    Totally gimmicky set. Curse lowers Speed and makes his Attack and Defense higher, and with the "high" Hp and Sp. Def, he becomes bulky as hell. Edgequake for coverage against everything, and Gyro Ball to take advantage of his terrible Speed. With 0 IVs, his Speed at level 100 is 22 0_o. White Smoke so his stats stay high enough for him to be a tank.

    Spinning rocks!
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Yawn
    - Will-o-Wisp
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EVs and Nature: Impish (+Def, -Sp. Atk)
    252 Hp/4 Atk/252 Def
    Set up SR or spin it away. Yawn and WoW to stop sweeps or just piss the opponent off. Shell Armor so nobody can score lucky crits.

    Double and Triple Options
    Weak to Rock Slide, Earthquake, Bulldoze, Surf... Just don't.

    Partners
    Beeheeyem to set up TR. Any Grass type to take out his weaknesses. Also Electric types.

    Countering Torkoal
    Any pokemon that uses Special Attacks. By which I mean Lanturn, Milotic, bulky Waters in general, even Pelliper. Take advantage of it's lower Sp. Def.


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  16. #41
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    AKA Just die @ Leftovers
    Nature Calm
    Ability Shell Armor
    Evs 252 hp 252 sp def 4 def
    Iron Defense
    Amnesia
    Toxic
    Rest

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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usatoday View Post
    AKA Just die @ Leftovers
    Nature Calm
    Ability Shell Armor
    Evs 252 hp 252 sp def 4 def
    Iron Defense
    Amnesia
    Toxic
    Rest
    Max defense, and replace Iron Defense with Lava Plume or Flamethrower.

    You'll need to do damage against steel types who aren't hurt by toxic.
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  18. #43

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    Typed up my post and had the entire thing deleted somehow >_>

    Well of course, Torkoal is notable as the only Fire Rapid Spinner. While this seems redundant, it does offer the unique resistance of Fire and Grass. And of course, Tork learns Stealth Rock itself. Indeed, Torkoal may very well be the best Fire-Type mixed tank.

    I think overall Torkoal was improved over the Gen; the Explosion nerf shouldn't concern it as much. Torkoal additionally has a whole calvary of support options besides Rapid Spin or Stealth Rock, and I don't mean with Specs or Shell Smash.

    Amnesia
    Iron Defence
    Clear Smog
    Lava Plume

    Those four make up the core of Torkoal's diverse support options, and these four can even be a set by itself. Torkoal has an outstanding Defence and a pretty passable Special Defence. The Defence can be further bolstered with Iron Defence or Burns, but more practically, Amnesia can be used to cover the Special Defence. Torkoal's new Ability Shell Armour also goes ways to prevent freak KOs, and of course Clear Smog works like Unaware to help keep the opponent's stat changes under control. Torkoal is one of the few that can use its DW Ability with Sleep Talk, but you might have trouble finding space. It can use Yawn as its phaze move, but this tends to clash with its Burn or Toxic options. Overheat is also plausible if you intend to switch often, though that's not entirely recommended.

    Please note Stealth Rock is illegal with Shell Armour.

    Um...I suppose if you have a Trick Room team, it's possible to go for some bizarre type of Shell Smashing Torkoal in Trick Room. With min Speed, Torkoal can go up to a blistering 80 Speed after a Shell Smash! Magcargo is the only other Fire-Type Shell Smasher, and the only things it boasts are Rock STAB, a tad more Special Defence, and arguably better Abilities. If you opt to max out Torkoal's Speed, it can actually go past 300, which is...pretty cool. But if you're gonna be like that anyway, you might as well pick Magcargo for the higher Base Speed and Weak Armour.

    SmashKoal
    White Smoke
    Life Orb/Focus Sash
    Quiet (+Special Attack, -Speed)
    252 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 4 Special Def
    Shell Smash
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Explosion/Stone Edge/Hidden Power Random

    Set up Trick Room, switch Torkoal in on Ferrothorn or something and use your turn to Shell Smash. Good for 3 turns of good-coverage chaos. In fact, this can work much like DDTar in Trick Room: Tyranitar with max Speed is still pretty slow, but use up a DD right before Trick Room ends and you're still good to go.
    Another possibility is to use this set in Doubles with a possible usage of Heat Wave/Eruption and/or Earthquake, with perhaps a Balloon on Torkoal. Use with Me First or Follow Me/Rage Powder partners.

    Torkoal benefits with being Ninetails' friend. Just sayin'...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilosophicalPsychologica View Post
    Please note Stealth Rock is illegal with Shell Armour.
    Quick question: Is it because it's an over-powered combo or is it because people don't realize it actually can get Stealth Rock via DW-unique Moves?

  20. #45
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    Stealth Rock isn't illegal with Shell Armor unless you're using Egg moves. Stealth Rock is one of the moves Torkoal gets in the Dream World

  21. #46
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    Torkoal is blessed with Shell Smash. That is pretty much what Torkoal will be doing for all eternity.
    Ability of choice is ALWAYS White Smoke.

    Shell Smash

    Nature: Modest|Adamant
    EVs: 252 Sp. attack|Attack and HP, 4 Sp. Defense
    @: Life Orb

    Shell Smash
    Flamethrower|Overheat
    Hidden Power (Ice/something)|Stone Edge
    Earth Power|Earthquake
    I claim Buizel.

  22. #47

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    I'm sorry to say, but Shell Smash is just not good on Torkoal. I mean, at all. Even with a positive speed nature and max investment, +2 Torkoal is easily outsped by positive natured Base 90s and up, leaving it easily checked even in the lower tiers. You're also completely destroying its bulk, making it even easier to revenge kill. For example, Lilligant can just come in and almost always OHKO -1 SpD Torkoal with HP Rock, and that's without the Life Orb. Dugtio sings the same tune with Earthquake, once again without Life Orb or Choice Band. If you go with White Herb to stop being so easy to revenge kill, you lose out on the Life Orb boost, which you almost need to have with Base 85 offenses. And honestly, Base 20 speed? Bronzor laughs at how slow you are. Bronzor.

    Torkoal has a little more physical and special bulk than Skarmory, as well as a little more power for throwing around an offensive STAB here and there. Take advantage of that.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    I'm sorry to say, but Shell Smash is just not good on Torkoal. I mean, at all. Even with a positive speed nature and max investment, +2 Torkoal is easily outsped by positive natured Base 90s and up, leaving it easily checked even in the lower tiers. You're also completely destroying its bulk, making it even easier to revenge kill. For example, Lilligant can just come in and almost always OHKO -1 SpD Torkoal with HP Rock, and that's without the Life Orb. Dugtio sings the same tune with Earthquake, once again without Life Orb or Choice Band. If you go with White Herb to stop being so easy to revenge kill, you lose out on the Life Orb boost, which you almost need to have with Base 85 offenses. And honestly, Base 20 speed? Bronzor laughs at how slow you are. Bronzor.

    Torkoal has a little more physical and special bulk than Skarmory, as well as a little more power for throwing around an offensive STAB here and there. Take advantage of that.
    why won't you just use white herb and boost twice? sure cloyster need only 1 but if you manage to boost twice.. it is GG
    I am not sure if something physical can 0Hko you even with earthquake... too bad he doesn't get sturdy..

    focus sash is another option not much people are aware of torkoal so.. kill priority users switch to ferrothorn or forretres (or something that actually "fears" torkoal, then try to take 2 shell smashes and then it is gg...

    I don't see a problem with shell smash really..

    if torkoal got a recovery move then he would be UU but he doesn't then live with what you have it is named shell smash.

    oh and if torkoal get an evolution someday (might happen) don't matter what is the evolution you get the only eviolite shell smasher (eviolite= better than white herb but practicly does the same)
    Last edited by Ilan; 28th November 2011 at 11:44 PM.

  24. #49
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    lol, still sucks, even with White Herb, its TOO SLOW to use Shell Smash

    +2 Torkoal is easily outsped by positive natured Base 90s and up
    yea, just use its defensive threats. and it can only use moves like

    Shell Smash
    Fire Blast
    Hidden Power [Rock]
    Filler

    Yea, just no

    Quote Originally Posted by Meowmeow View Post
    Torkoal is blessed with Shell Smash. That is pretty much what Torkoal will be doing for all eternity.
    Ability of choice is ALWAYS White Smoke.

    Shell Smash

    Nature: Modest|Adamant
    EVs: 252 Sp. attack|Attack and HP, 4 Sp. Defense
    @: Life Orb

    Shell Smash
    Flamethrower|Overheat
    Hidden Power (Ice/something)|Stone Edge
    Earth Power|Earthquake
    He doesnt get Earth Power, wtf is this i dont even

    I chase the dream, not the competition.


  25. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonMaster123 View Post
    lol, still sucks, even with White Herb, its TOO SLOW to use Shell Smash



    yea, just use its defensive threats. and it can only use moves like

    Shell Smash
    Fire Blast
    Hidden Power [Rock]
    Filler

    Yea, just no



    He doesnt get Earth Power, wtf is this i dont even

    about your set... mixed?

    I meant a +4 torkoal 2 boosts! it is a risk if you can run screens he can work

    get a +4 and it is a gg so stop assuming it don't work just because the +2 don't work just like jirachi or scizor to sweep you need +4.

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