Community POTW #48

**TrollFreak** · 28th November 2011, 11:08 PM

Ok, you can do that, good luck getting 2 SS in w/ Common Weaknesses to Rock, Ground, and Water, and again, pokemon 90 base speed or higher come in on the first SS, then just OHKO w/ STAB moves (if in fact they have STAB moves, Simipour e.t.c)

get a +4 and it is a gg so stop assuming it don't work just because the +2 don't work just like jirachi or scizor to sweep you need +4.

Ok, mixed w/ 85 base attacks got me wtfing, but using Torkoal in OU is even worse, rain every where, things like Lando, Deoxys-S, Terrakion Starmie, Latios, Latias, Espeon, Gengar, Hydregion, Rotom-W, Gastro, Blissey(no physical STAB, so stfu about mixed breaking it) Heatran, Vappy, Jellicent, Politoed that can outspeed it at +2 and OHKO, some after Rocks, which makes you lose 25% as you come in or just wall it in general.

But again, w/e u wanna do, if you beat someone w/ Torkoal in OU, good for you, send me the battle replay so i can watch, because its bad in OU

**Ilan** · 28th November 2011, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by DragonMaster123

Ok, you can do that, good luck getting 2 SS in w/ Common Weaknesses to Rock, Ground, and Water, and again, pokemon 90 base speed or higher come in on the first SS, then just OHKO w/ STAB moves (if in fact they have STAB moves, Simipour e.t.c)

Ok, mixed w/ 85 base attacks got me wtfing, but using Torkoal in OU is even worse, rain every where, things like Lando, Deoxys-S, Terrakion Starmie, Latios, Latias, Espeon, Gengar, Hydregion, Rotom-W, Gastro, Blissey(no physical STAB, so stfu about mixed breaking it) Heatran, Vappy, Jellicent, Politoed that can outspeed it at +2 and OHKO, some after Rocks, which makes you lose 25% as you come in or just wall it in general.

But again, w/e u wanna do, if you beat someone w/ Torkoal in OU, good for you, send me the battle replay so i can watch, because its bad in OU

it is base 85*3.... equal to base 255 (I think it do work like that)

the POTW is focused on OU so... that's what you have... beat counters get somehow 2 SS and finish the game that's why SS is viable you totally ignore the posibility of 2 SS, you get lucky and survive you win..you can always support it with screens.

You know how many times I got volcarona to +2? (really in OU just use volcarona..) it have the same story more or less screens solve this problem (except rocks.. those always kill volcarona).

**TrollFreak** · 28th November 2011, 11:23 PM

no, the POTW is focused on the pokemon, half the pokemon they did (stunfisk in OU, really) are UU and lower, since serebii cant pick OU mons since this is what 99% of the websites plays

and still nerfed by rain, screen doesn't help w/ that, but again, if you beat someone w/ it in OU, send me the replay

You know how many times I got volcarona to +2? (really in OU just use volcarona..) it have the same story more or less screens solve this problem (except rocks.. those always kill volcarona).

1- Dont compare one of OU tops sweepers w/ a Fire Turtle thing
2- Quiver Dance gets a special defense boost, which makes it harder to take down, where as Torkoal is still outspeed by base 90s and above, vol even the bulky set outspeed all base 115s at +1

**Vandslaux** · 29th November 2011, 12:21 AM

Shell Smash? WTF is this? Just go physically defensive in the lower tiers.

Torkoal @Leftovers
Bold
252 HP/Def 4 Sp. Atk
Shell Armour
Lava Plume
Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin
Protect

And actually, he does get Earth Power.

**TrollFreak** · 29th November 2011, 12:26 AM

And actually, he does get Earth Power.

srry, wrong website i was looking at, still needs to be defensive anywho

**Ilan** · 29th November 2011, 1:04 AM

shell smash in OU doesn't work:
Spoiler:- battles:

I need to try it on NU and see if it works there.

torkoal= stay away from OU

**TrollFreak** · 29th November 2011, 1:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ilan

shell smash in OU doesn't work:
Spoiler:- battles:

I need to try it on NU and see if it works there.

torkoal= stay away from OU

thank you for finally figuring this out, now we can discuss it in RU/NU

**TheTraininator** · 29th November 2011, 1:35 AM

Am I the only one here who likes Torkoal? And if I were to make a Gamera joke, would anyone get it?

Anyways, I thinks Torkoal's best bet is to use a Curse set with max HP and Sp. Defense investment with rest. Could be a sleep talk set, could be resto chesto, one of the two. The problem with that is, of course, it gets no physical fire stab, (SCREW FLAREON, FLARE BLITZ FOR TORKOAL! WOO!), so it has to rely on EdgeQuake and Gyro Ball. I guess you could run one with lava plume and make it a... mixed Curse set? That could work, with a little Special Attack investment... I dunno. It's Torkoal. Hell yeah.

**Charizard Lizzy** · 29th November 2011, 1:47 AM

Originally Posted by PhilosophicalPsychologica

Um...I suppose if you have a Trick Room team, it's possible to go for some bizarre type of Shell Smashing Torkoal in Trick Room. With min Speed, Torkoal can go up to a blistering 80 Speed after a Shell Smash!

I would think you'd actually be benefitting the faster, tougher mons letting Torkoal use Shell Smash in a Trick Room. You'll get to move first because of Torkoal's abysmal Speed, but then its weakened defenses are left wide open to the faster Pokémon that haven't even struck yet.

Plus, base 80 Speed puts you in a weird purgatory of making you not fast enough in regular conditions, nor quite fast enough in a Trick Room.

**Pika ruler** · 29th November 2011, 2:24 AM

Originally Posted by BionicToaster

My lead set:
Torkoal@Focus Sash
Ability: White Smoke
EVs: 176 HP, 80 Defense, 252 Special Defense
Nature: Calm [+ Special Defense, - Attack]
-Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Overheat
-Yawn

I tried to make the EV spread/Nature to make it so that he could take special hits as well as physical hits. Anyway, Yawn on the first turn, and make them decide if they want to keep their lead awake or not. Use Stealth Rock on the switch, or Rapid Spin away their hazards on the switch. Overheat Really just so you're not screwed by Taunt. Try to keep him for later for phazing with Yawn or for Rapid Spin support, but he's viable death fodder for a Heatran Earth Power

I would use Flamthrower instead so you can attack more.

**mew72** · 29th November 2011, 2:24 AM

Torkoal is interesting, I'll give it that.

i have more of a UU set, but honestly, that's what Torkoal is any good for.

It's a weird set but whatever.

I'm Not As Weird as You
Flamethrower
Body Slam
Iron Defense
Hidden Power Grass
Ability: White Smoke
Item: Leftovers
EVs:252 HP, 10 Atk. & Sp.Atk., 4 Def. & 228 Sp.Def

You use Torkoal at the very end, when the opponent can't hurt you. All Water types or Sp.Atk Pokemon should be removed, but Torkoal got enough fire in him to take a hit. Iron Defense so physical Pokemon can't touch it. Body Slam for that neat paralysis, you'll need any help you can get. HP Grass to deal with those weakened Ground, Rock, Water Pokemon. Flamethrower for good coverage, a filler, and STAB. The set works, but you have to use Torkoal at the precise moment, and it takes a real pro to correctly abuse Torkoal's potential. i have one, so i know.

**~~Blue Harvest~~** · 29th November 2011, 3:01 AM

Originally Posted by DragonMaster123

He doesnt get Earth Power, wtf is this i dont even

Yes it does, 4th gen move tutor.

**TrollFreak** · 29th November 2011, 3:21 AM

yea, i was using This site there, and i didn't see Earth Power, Torkoal shouldn't be running Earth Power anyways, in NU/RU, he spins away rocks, and can go SS i guess, tho i would use Simisear/Magmortar for a Fire Type Attacker

**GirlKirbyZombie** · 29th November 2011, 3:29 AM

Originally Posted by jesusfreak94

I'm sorry to say, but Shell Smash is just not good on Torkoal. I mean, at all. Even with a positive speed nature and max investment, +2 Torkoal is easily outsped by positive natured Base 90s and up, leaving it easily checked even in the lower tiers. You're also completely destroying its bulk, making it even easier to revenge kill. For example, Lilligant can just come in and almost always OHKO -1 SpD Torkoal with HP Rock, and that's without the Life Orb. Dugtio sings the same tune with Earthquake, once again without Life Orb or Choice Band. If you go with White Herb to stop being so easy to revenge kill, you lose out on the Life Orb boost, which you almost need to have with Base 85 offenses. And honestly, Base 20 speed? Bronzor laughs at how slow you are. Bronzor.

What about under a tailwind or a swamp from the pledges on the opponent's field (or both lulz)?

**TrollFreak** · 29th November 2011, 3:41 AM

^ 20 base speed w/ Tailwind. So Fast. And who will support Tailwind? Brivarly, Unfezant?

Pledges, oh yea, ima run the starters mons and waste valuable spots to support a poke better at support then sweeping

**menametlg** · 29th November 2011, 9:52 AM

Ability:
White Smoke- Best for boosting set.
Shell Armor- Best for bulky set but less useful than white smoke.

Burn/Toxic Stall
@Left-overs / White Herb
White Smoke / Shell Armor
Bold / Relaxed [252 Def / 216 HP / 40 SpAtk]
- Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
- Protect
- Iron Defense / Amnesia / Substitute / Smoke Screen
- Flame Thrower / Heatwave / Overheat

This set is gimmicky. Toxic and Will-o-Wisp gives status. Protect stalls the status. Iron Def and Amnesia raises your defensive stat while Substitute stalls like protect. Smokescreen lowers the accuracy. Flame Thrower and Heat wave for damage

Choice
@Choice Band
White Smoke
Brave / Adamant [252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 HP]
- Flame Charge
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
- Explosion / Body Slam / Return

Moves explain themselves.

Specs
@Choice Specs
White Smoke
Modest / Bold [252 SpAtk / 252 Def / 4 HP]
- Flame Thrower / Heatwave / Eruption
- HP [Water]
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power

Same as above. Moves explain themselves.

Tank
@Left-overs / White Herb
White Smoke / Shell Armor
Bold / Relaxed [252 Def / 216 HP / 40 SpAtk]
- Yawn / Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
- Stealth Rock
- Flame Thrower / Overheat
- Rapid Spin

All moves explain themselves.

Other options...
Shell Break - will make it offensive but lowers defensive stat
Curse and Gyro Ball - good combination but takes time to boost
Wide Lens - raises your accuracy but less useful than lefties and white herbs

EDIT: I WAS CONFUSED!!! SORRY ^^,

**Zachmac** · 29th November 2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Ilan

I meant a +4 torkoal 2 boosts! it is a risk if you can run screens he can work

get a +4 and it is a gg so stop assuming it don't work just because the +2 don't work just like jirachi or scizor to sweep you need +4.

So, you're expecting to get two shell smashes? Good luck with that, you'll need it, especially with all these bulky waters, rock moves, and ground moves running around. Against rain, you don't even need to ask. Against sun, Chlorophyll will easily outrun it. Against sand, you'll have to set up on earthquake and stone edge.

**TrollFreak** · 29th November 2011, 12:35 PM

Choice
@Choice Band
White Smoke
Brave / Docile [252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 HP]
- Flame Charge
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
- Explosion / Body Slam / Return

Moves explain themselves.

Specs
@Choice Specs
White Smoke
Adamant / Bold [252 SpAtk / 252 Def / 4 SpDef]
- Flame Thrower / Heatwave / Eruption
- HP [Water]
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power

What? Specs with a SpA dropping nature?

**Ilan** · 29th November 2011, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by Zachmac

So, you're expecting to get two shell smashes? Good luck with that, you'll need it, especially with all these bulky waters, rock moves, and ground moves running around. Against rain, you don't even need to ask. Against sun, Chlorophyll will easily outrun it. Against sand, you'll have to set up on earthquake and stone edge.

using torkoal in OU is a mistake keep it out of OU and UU too RU or NU there torkoal belongs.. if he gets a recovery move then you can try it somewhere else... (like morning sun or SOMETHING)

Also why do you listen to smogon I looked at the article at smogon and some people here had done copypasta from there...

**Zachmac** · 29th November 2011, 1:59 PM

using torkoal in OU is a mistake keep it out of OU and UU too RU or NU there torkoal belongs.. if he gets a recovery move then you can try it somewhere else... (like morning sun or SOMETHING)

But POTW is OU, with maybe a little bit of LC. You should know that if you ever read it.

**Ilan** · 29th November 2011, 2:07 PM

Originally Posted by Zachmac

But POTW is OU, with maybe a little bit of LC. You should know that if you ever read it.

I always read it.. it doesn't mention tiers actually.. too bad most pokemons can't do nothing in OU, but are pretty good on NU or RU surprisingly there is a mention to stored power in gallade "other options" O.O there are only 2 decent stored power users.. and I can clearly say gallade is NOT one of them.

torkoal works in NU everywhere else is is outclassed by pretty much everything.

**The_Heir_of_Madness** · 29th November 2011, 3:12 PM

Torkoal has potential... It makes an amazing wall in the right circumstances

Through the Rings of Fire
Torkoal @ leftovers
ability: whitesmoke
nature: Bold
252 HP/252 Def or Sp Def/4 Sp Def or Def

Fire Spin
Will-o-wisp
Amnesia
Rest

Okay first off baton passing defensive boosts helps if you care to try that (look at Drifblim, Mawile and Gale of Darkness Lunatone)
But the main strategy here is to trap them with Fire Spin and then will-o-wisp to halve their attack then prepare for special attackers with amnesia and rest when needed

**Zachmac** · 29th November 2011, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by The_Heir_of_Madness

Torkoal has potential... It makes an amazing wall in the right circumstances

Through the Rings of Fire
Torkoal @ leftovers
ability: whitesmoke
nature: Bold
252 HP/252 Def or Sp Def/4 Sp Def or Def

Fire Spin
Will-o-wisp
Amnesia
Rest

Okay first off baton passing defensive boosts helps if you care to try that (look at Drifblim, Mawile and Gale of Darkness Lunatone)
But the main strategy here is to trap them with Fire Spin and then will-o-wisp to halve their attack then prepare for special attackers with amnesia and rest when needed

Fire spin is kind of useless..

Rather then baton pass support, why not just max out defense EVs(no "or sp.def")? 140 base defense is pretty good, and you already have amnesia. On top of that, will-o-wisp cuts your enemy's attack stat in half.

Also, Lunatone isn't the world's greatest baton passer.

I always read it.. it doesn't mention tiers actually..

Take a look at counters/teammates. It usually brings up OU pokemon.

**The_Heir_of_Madness** · 29th November 2011, 3:27 PM

Yes fire spin generally is useless but I find the ability to both stop your opponent from switching and get an extra 1/16 of your opponents health down every turn to be usefull with walls especially when you cant't inflict much damage with your wall

**Zachmac** · 29th November 2011, 4:32 PM

Originally Posted by The_Heir_of_Madness

Yes fire spin generally is useless but I find the ability to both stop your opponent from switching and get an extra 1/16 of your opponents health down every turn to be usefull with walls especially when you cant't inflict much damage with your wall

Actually, 85/85 attacking stats aren't bad for a wall. I'd use flamethrower instead.

Also, I'd rather use Shell Armor over white smoke. Crits hit through defense boost, and can often break through walls the attacks otherwise cannot. Stat lowering moves are very rare.

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