Community POTW #48

[Pika ruler]

Abilitys:

White Smoke: An okay ability, except hardly anyone lowers your stats.

Shell Armor: A better ability, ruining Scope Lens using Pokemon.

[EmeraldGoblin]

Abilitys:

White Smoke: An okay ability, except hardly anyone lowers your stats.

Shell Armor: A better ability, ruining Scope Lens using Pokemon.

because Scope Lens is competitively common :/

[Shadow Archer]

^Yes Gallade and Absol usually carry Scope Lens and critical hit moves.

[SwiftGrovyle]

because Scope Lens is competitively common :/

We just did Gallade. Absol. Super-luck Togekiss. Sometimes excadrill. Honchkrow. Maybe Rhypherior. Kingdra is slowly becoming common. Fearow. Weavile from time to time. Drapion. Sceptile. Anything with cross chop and stone edge together will sometimes carry this. Case in point- don't dis my favorite item. Oh, and Scizzor.

Also, Shell smash- do it if you want to use Torcoal in the little cup. Or Nu, because otherwise, tons of things will out speed you. Not to mention, the setup can go wrong in so many ways. Stealth rock, paralysis, priority, switching to a counter, sleeping, item-theft/knocked down(if white herbed), and anything that is 90 base speed or above, which is funny, because that means that Elekid can still out-run it in the little cup.

The idea of shell smash is a fantastic move to use, but sadly, not for Torcoal. Torcoal is ment for the whole 'slow and steady wins the race', but now I'm not even sure if he's any good at all, especially with a lot of the move Scald running through every pokemon that can use it- even it's own fiery brother Emboar can hurt the poor guy.

[pbnj97]

Looking at Torkoal I really feel he needs the ability No Guard. With 100% acurate fissures and infernoes he'd be unstopable, but he does have promise as is.

Flaming Turtle
Torkoal@leftovers
Ability: White Smoke
Trait: Sassy
EVs: 252 Atk,252 SpA,4 SpD
Flamethrower/Heat Wave
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Gyro Ball
Torkoal probably is best with leftovers. The continual health gain makes him bulky in a prolonged battle. Sassy increases his SpD (trying to be bulky) and lowers his already useless speed. In EVs I decided to help out his attacks. Flamethrower and Heat Wave are his stabs while Earthquake and Stone Edge cover alot of pokemon including some of his weaknesses. His last moveslot is filled with Gyro Ball. Gyro Ball's power is major when you look at Torkoal's 20 base speed, hindering nature and no speed EVs.

[Ice Blue Dragon]

Also, Shell smash- do it if you want to use Torcoal in the little cup. Or Nu, because otherwise, tons of things will out speed you. Not to mention, the setup can go wrong in so many ways. Stealth rock, paralysis, priority, switching to a counter, sleeping, item-theft/knocked down(if white herbed), and anything that is 90 base speed or above, which is funny, because that means that Elekid can still out-run it in the little cup .

You can't use torkoal in little cup. It is not a non-evolveing pokemon.

[Pika ruler]

A Torkoal set:

Nature: Sassy
Ability: Shell armor
EV's: 252 Atk/200 Sp. Def/52 Def/4 Sp. Atk
Item: (suggestions please)

Moves:
Gyro Ball
Stone Edge/Earthquake
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Curse

A mixed set. Curse for a powerful Gyro Ball, Stone Edge for Flying types, Earthquake for Electrics and other Fires. Flamethrower for STAB, but less power. Fire Blast for power, but less of a chance to hit.

[darkrai's_shadow]

@Leftovers
White Smoke, Relaxed
252 hp/252 def/4 atk

Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin
Overheat
Gyro Ball

Low health, stealth rock susceptible... wait, whats this? has as high defense as skarmory AND more hp? rapid spin? stealth rock? and whats that... BASE 20 SPEED WITH GYRO BALL? YES PLEASE! if you havent noticed, this is mainly a defensive wall/spinner/lead, and excels in sun, thanks overheat. Can easily survive most physical attacks with ease, but, unfortunately, no recovery, where lefties come in, which are essential. Pretty much, its a weaker version of skarmory that works in sun, but nothing else.

[Invisiblade97]

Status
Torkoal @Leftovers
Ability: White Smoke
Nature: Bold
EVs: 248 HP 252 Def 8 SpD
Will-O-Wisp
Toxic
Yawn
Lava Plume
Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers. Toxic screws over walls. Yawn forces switches against stat boosters. Lava Plume helps make sure you're not taunt bait, plus, it has a 30% burn rate. EVs are standard, and Leftovers increase survivability. Funny how Torkoal has the same defensive stats as Skarmory, but sadly its typing has forced it into NU.

[Zachmac]

We just did Gallade. Absol. Super-luck Togekiss. Sometimes excadrill. Honchkrow. Maybe Rhypherior. Kingdra is slowly becoming common. Fearow. Weavile from time to time. Drapion. Sceptile. Anything with cross chop and stone edge together will sometimes carry this. Case in point- don't dis my favorite item. Oh, and Scizzor.

...All have much better items they can be carrying. Togekiss relies a lot on serene grace to.

That item isn't common at all, but I do prefer shell armor because it does stop random crits, which will still be more common then stat lowering moves.

[jesusfreak94]

^Yes Gallade and Absol usually carry Scope Lens and critical hit moves.

No, they most certainly do not. Scope Lens is a gimmick at best, a deadweight item at worst.

We just did Gallade. Absol. Super-luck Togekiss. Sometimes excadrill. Honchkrow. Maybe Rhypherior. Kingdra is slowly becoming common. Fearow. Weavile from time to time. Drapion. Sceptile. Anything with cross chop and stone edge together will sometimes carry this. Case in point- don't dis my favorite item. Oh, and Scizzor.

You know what most of those Pokemon you mentioned have in common? They have very few or no high crit ratio moves to take advantage of, they have better abilities to use than those that take advantage of crits, or they flat-out suck. No, Pokemon with high crit ratio moves will very rarely carry something like a Scope Lens.

[Kraleck]

Actually, 85/85 attacking stats aren't bad for a wall. I'd use flamethrower instead.

Also, I'd rather use Shell Armor over white smoke. Crits hit through defense boost, and can often break through walls the attacks otherwise cannot. Stat lowering moves are very rare.

People who expect criticals are the ones who rely on the hax factor. Most Moves have a 1 in 16 chance to Crit, while High Critical Ratio Moves have a 1 in 8 chance to Crit, and that's without Super Luck. Even at best, you are never guaranteed a Crit.

Moves that add debuffs aren't the only worry. Intimidate Ability can royally screw over a Physical Attacker Torkoal with Shell Armor. Plus, you may just see issues from Memento, Tickle, Acid Spray, and several others with Shell Armor Ability, decreasing Torkoal's potential for tank-n-spank tactics.

What was that? "Auto-Crit Moves," you say, well:
-Frost Breath is Ice Type, which Torkoal resists. It also has a Type advantage over all of its users except Mew (whom you'll never see unless you're an idiot), Dewgong, Cloyster, Lapras, Walrein (all 4 can slam you with Water STAB, so you'd flee anyway) and Smeargle (who has pitiful stats).
-Storm Throw is learnable by Throh (who may eventually get Mold Breaker to ignore Shell Armor and Battle Armor anyway) and Smeargle only. It also targets Torkoal's huge Defense stat.

Short version: You're never guaranteed to see a Crit, but some debuffs are guaranteed.

[Zachmac]

Short version: You're never guaranteed to see a Crit, but some debuffs are guaranteed.

True, but how common are the moves that lower stats? I've seen a million more crits then I have seen stat lowering moves.

Intimidate Ability can royally screw over a Physical Attacker Torkoal with Shell Armor.

IIRC, it's best physical STAB is flame wheel, so it's only going to be physical if it's a curse tank, who can just restore the drop(most intimidaters are physical attackers).

Plus, you may just see issues from Memento, Tickle, Acid Spray, and several others with Shell Armor Ability, decreasing Torkoal's potential for tank-n-spank tactics.

How common are those again? I've never had to fight a pokemon using Memento or Tickle once yet, and I've only seen acid spray used once.

[Ilan]

True, but how common are the moves that lower stats? I've seen a million more crits then I have seen stat lowering moves. IIRC, it's best physical STAB is flame wheel, so it's only going to be physical if it's a curse tank, who can just restore the drop(most intimidaters are physical attackers). How common are those again? I've never had to fight a pokemon using Memento or Tickle once yet, and I've only seen acid spray used once.

Memento is used mainly by dugtrio which will use Earthquake anyway and don't switch on a none flying one anyway...

[Kraleck]

True, but how common are the moves that lower stats? I've seen a million more crits then I have seen stat lowering moves.

IIRC, it's best physical STAB is flame wheel, so it's only going to be physical if it's a curse tank, who can just restore the drop (most intimidaters are physical attackers).

How common are those again? I've never had to fight a pokemon using Memento or Tickle once yet, and I've only seen acid spray used once.

I know of a few people who go through unconventional sets and make them work. Memento is rare, but likely from a few of those that can. Tickle is one I've seen used, by a Cradily user, to simultaneously act as an alternative to Barrier and drop the opponent's Defense.

The Moves I mentioned before were just off the top of my head, anyway:
-Charm may come up from a Prankster-cott, plus Screech, Metal Sound, and Fake Tears are unusual options. I've seen quite a bit of them used as alternates to buffs when the Pokemon being sent out is expected to fall quickly (generally to set the next Pokemon up for a revenge KO).
-You may simply get unlucky when switching into an Iron Tail, Crunch, Crush Claw, Struggle Bug, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Bug Buzz, Energy Ball, Aurora Beam, Flash Cannon, or Focus Blast. The possibility of a Crit is the least of your worries if your stats take a hit as well.
-Speed debuff Moves are the best-case scenario due to Gyro Ball and Trick Room, but half of the damaging ones carry a Type advantage. You'd only see Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, or Icy Wind among the Speed debuff Moves, anyway, though, so don't expect them.

The point I was making was that debuffs are more of a guarantee than Critical Hits. If you spend time using defensive buffs, only then do you really have to worry about Crits.

Since a strong hit or two without a Crit can (and likely will) down Torkoal, Shell Armor is nothing to write home about. Remember that Torkoal has Base 70 HP and Sp.Def -- think along the lines of Sudowoodo, Crustle, Steelix, and Gliscor on Special Walling, minus their better Speed stats and supportive Abilities. One Surf, Muddy Water, Earth Power, Power Gem, or capable Special Attacker spells disaster for Torkoal and the player if it gets trapped between a weakened supporter and the threat in its face.

[Pika ruler]

A Torkoal set:

Ability: White Smoke
Nature: Sassy, Calm
EV's: 252 HP/100 Def/4 Sp. Atk/152 Sp. Def
Item: Leftovers

Moves:
Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin
Flamethrower
Toxic

Stealth Rock is a must for this set. Rapid Spin to clear away other entry hazards, Toxic to damage your opponent. Flamethrower so you're not Taunt bait. Leftovers so you are in there longer.

Another Torkoal Set:

Ability: Shell Armor
Nature: Sassy, Brave
EV's: 252 HP/4 Atk/126 Def/126 Sp. Def
Item: Leftovers

Moves:
Curse
Gyro Ball
Rest
Sleep Talk

Curse to lower your speed for a more powerful Gyro Ball. Rest is for healing yourself. Sleep Talk is there so you aren't dead meat while you sleep. Leftovers so you can heal while you sleep.

[Zachmac]

Another Torkoal Set:

Ability: Shell Armor
Nature: Sassy, Brave
EV's: 252 HP/4 Atk/126 Def/126 Sp. Def
Item: Leftovers

Moves:
Curse
Gyro Ball
Rest
Sleep Talk

Curse to lower your speed for a more powerful Gyro Ball. Rest is for healing yourself. Sleep Talk is there so you aren't dead meat while you sleep. Leftovers so you can heal while you sleep.

Gyro ball by itself isn't a good idea, only 5 PP. Also, I thought Sleep Talk+Shell Armor was illegal...I might be wrong though.

[PhilosophicalPsychologica]

Sleep Talk is mostly likely legal with Shell Armor, given ST's status as Torkoal's Egg Move.

A RestTalk Curse set with Gyro Ball is largely ineffective, as Torkoal will be greatly vulnerable on its Special side and Gyro Ball will deal disappointing damage for what its set-up is worth. I mainly disapprove of it due to the lack of auxiliary attacks.

[Tyson9182]

Speedy Smasher
Torkoal
-Flame Charge
-SolarBeam
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power(Ice)
Item:Focus Sash/Absorb Bulb
Ev's:4Hp/126Atk/126Sp.Atk/4Sp.Def/248Spd
Nature:Hasty(-Def+Spd)

The Main Part Of This Set Is To Hit First With Flame Charge And Then Start Sweeping.Flame Charge Is STAB And Increases Speed Which You Need,SolarBeam For Water,Ground And Rock Types,Earthquake For Defeating Heatran Which Walls You Without It, And Hidden Power Ice For Dragonite Salamence Garchomp And Hydreigon.
The Ev's Are For Putting Extra Defence And Hp In Exchange For Some Speed

[Ilan]

Speedy Smasher
Torkoal
-Flame Charge
-SolarBeam
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power(Ice)
Item:Focus Sash/Absorb Bulb
Ev's:4Hp/126Atk/126Sp.Atk/4Sp.Def/248Spd
Nature:Hasty(-Def+Spd)

The Main Part Of This Set Is To Hit First With Flame Charge And Then Start Sweeping.Flame Charge Is STAB And Increases Speed Which You Need,SolarBeam For Water,Ground And Rock Types,Earthquake For Defeating Heatran Which Walls You Without It, And Hidden Power Ice For Dragonite Salamence Garchomp And Hydreigon.
The Ev's Are For Putting Extra Defence And Hp In Exchange For Some Speed

solar beam? really? you neeed sun for this ya know?
anyway torkoal best bet for being fast is shells smash which it need 2 of them to be actually a treat no point into flame charge this way he need to survive 4 turns to e fast enouh to do something and with 85 attack on every stat.. he have pretty poor offense..

if you want a sweeper torkoal make sure to have support and use shell smash (but only on NU) in OU just use cloyster or volcarona.

if you use it outside of NU use a support set