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Thread: Salute to Team Monkeyfish

  1. #1

    Default Salute to Team Monkeyfish

    I know a lot of people are tired of hearing about Team Monkeyfish, what with my last RMT and the war story and what not, but I'm finally deciding to retire this team for now. Just a little while before Thanksgiving, I tried to ladder with it one more time. The Friday before Thanksgiving, I finally made it to #10 on the Smogon OU ladder before I had a couple of haxy battles, started playing terribly, and suddenly remembered why I usually don't like laddering. At any rate, 10 is my own personal record, and I'm kinda proud of this team for coming this far. Now that I've made it into the top 10 on Smogon, I've decided to give this old team a long awaited and well-deserved retirement. I'd like to get a little more advice for this team in case I decide to bring it out of retirement sometime in the future. All in all, this is no doubt the most reliable team I've ever used in BW OU, and it's my personal favorite.

    As far as the RMT goes, I'm structuring this one similarly to the original. Same pictures, but different descriptions and slightly different threat list. I've also included a section for each Pokemon describing my experience with each: what other Pokemon I've used in that position, what changes have been made, and where I've found it the most useful. Oh, and here's the monkeyfish picture, since I know how much everyone loves to see it. :P

        Spoiler:- Monkeyfish:



    Jirachi@Leftovers
    Careful
    Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP, 240 SpD, 16 Spe
    Moves:
    -Wish
    -Protect
    -Body Slam
    -Iron Head

    My favorite Jirachi set in this Generation by a long shot, and overall a great team player. Wish is really helpful for getting health to the main muscles of the team, Hydreigon and Heatran. Protect also allows me to stall for health and Wish recovery, which is often very useful in and of itself. Protect also allows me to scout for the opponent's next move, which is really useful for catching Choice users who switch into Jirachi with the intent of killing it or U-Turning/Volt Switching on it. Although it seems sometimes that Body Slam's 60% paralysis rate with Serene Grace drops to 20% whenever I use it, the paralysis still remains invaluable in giving Jirachi the ability to check or counter Pokemon like Reuniclus and Lati@s that I might otherwise have trouble with. Once I get paralysis up, the KO is usually only a few Iron Heads away. Jirachi is just honestly a great switch in to a variety of special attacks (and some physical ones), and has proven to be one of the best pivots I've ever worked with.

    Experience with Jirachi: Jirachi has honestly gone through the fewest changes of any member on this team. The only real change was to the EVs. Epic_eevee advised me in the original thread to drop the speed EVs since +0 Jolly Tyranitar is a rare sight, and I've taken the advice here. These EVs are placed to outspeed Adamant Breloom and Cloyster (before Shell Smash). The extra special bulk has also helped on a few occasions. During the last round before Deoxys-S's ban, I found that Jirachi was able to weaken HO teams by stopping Deoxys-S 9 times out of 10. They always seemed to Taunt me while I paralyze with Body Slam and then Iron Head Deoxys-S to death. I've also found that just spamming Body Slam can very easily cripple incoming threats, namely Landorus and Infernape, who might otherwise give me plenty of trouble. In addition, Jirachi forms a secondary answer to many Rain threats, and in conjunction with Gastrodon can usually handle most of them.


    Hydreigon(F)@Expert Belt
    Timid
    Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Moves:
    -Draco Meteor
    -Dark Pulse
    -Fire Blast
    -Focus Blast

    Adorable, I know.

    Hydreigon is one of the greatest powerhouses in the BW metagame. This thing pretty much acts like a Pursuit-resisting Latios, except that I very much prefer the Expert Belt on Hydreigon over a Specs set. I find that the fact that I can switch moves takes advantage of Hydreigon's immense power and coverage much better. Draco Meteor just hits stuff. Hard. Honestly, there's not a single Steel type that can switch into for fear of Fire Blast besides Heatran, who is threatened by Focus Blast immediately after and usually doesn't do too much back. Dark Pulse is just a nice STAB move overall, but it also gives me a great answer to Jellicent, who otherwise would be quite a problem. The Dark STAB gives me an additional answer to things like Reuniclus, in case Jirachi fails to take it out.

    Experience with Hydreigon: Hydreigon was on the original team, but was removed and replaced by a few Pokemon to help cover some other weakness, mainly that to Rain. After Gastrodon was added (who honestly handled Rain fair enough on its own), I noticed that the one remaining hole that really bothered me was a weakness to Jellicent, as well as a lack of raw firepower. As such, Hydreigon was reinstated. I used to run U-Turn over Focus Blast, but Life Orb U-Turn was honestly a stupid idea. Focus Blast also allows me to catch some of the most common switch-ins, Tyranitar and Heatran. If I catch them on the switch, I might be able to kill them right then and there, since even the bulkiest sets are 2HKO'd. Some of the weaker ones are OHKO'd, which is very good news. Alongside Heatran, Hydreigon does really well checking Sun teams, as Fire Blast gets boosted to frightening levels, and Hydreigon resists many common attacks from abusers like Venusaur. As suggested by Puretrainer, the Expert Belt offers the same ability to KO the threats that worry Hydreigon or the rest of my team, and the elimination of the Life Orb recoil is a huge boon in assisting Hydreigon's ability to tank hits and dish them out.


    Heatran(F)@Air Balloon
    Timid
    Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
    Moves:
    -Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    -HP Ice
    -Stealth Rock

    Air Balloon Heatran has long been my favorite Heatran set, my preference honestly dating back to the release of the new item. With it's incredible set of resistances and a newfound immunity to Ground, Heatran suddenly becomes an incredible counter or check to plenty of Pokemon that would otherwise eat it alive. The fact that it has so many chances to come in and cause switches makes it a prime Stealth Rock supporter. After Rocks are up, Heatran finds it easy to go on the offensive. Even with no boosting item, Fire Blast is hitting a lot of things hard. If I can catch a Flash Fire boost, all the better for me. Earth Power mainly helps check things like other Heatran, but it's also kinda useful for getting Infernape on the switch. HP Ice is great for giving me a weapon against Landorus and Infernape, as well as allowing me to have something to show for against Dragons if I'm in a tight spot.

    Experience with Heatran: Heatran has honestly been through one change since this team was made. I did attempt to run Flame Charge over Stealth Rock, since sweeping Heatran is actually pretty effective, but I found that Stealth Rock was too valuable for helping wear down prominent offensive threats. Honestly, Heatran is just so valuable for its ability to check or downright shut down Pokemon like Landorus, Salamence, Gliscor, and Dragonite. Heatran is also my main answer to Sun teams, with Hydreigon bringing up the rear. I prefer Air Balloon Heatran as a Sun check over the popularized Specially Defensive set for a number of reasons, mainly because it makes me immune to Dugtrio trapping and random Earthquakes/Nature Powers from sweepers like Venusaur and Sawsbuck.


    Gliscor(F)@Toxic Orb
    Impish
    Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 Spe
    Moves:
    -Swords Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Fang
    -Taunt

    The metagame has changed a bit since Terrakion was released, but Gliscor has remained the same. The set not only forms an excellent answer to physical Fighting types, but is a great stallbreaker in its own right. Common supporters such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress are all just set-up bait for Gliscor. If I can set up to +6 on a Taunted opponent, I can barrel through plenty of stall teams. Swords Dance and Taunt make up the main weapons of the stall breaking core. Once I'm set up, Earthquake and Ice Fang offer excellent coverage for just tearing apart whatever I need to. Besides helping against stall, Swords Dance and Taunt also help me to take out prominent Fighting types such as Conkeldurr and Scrafty. All around just a great Pokemon, and one of my favorite sets.

    Experience with Gliscor: The main changes to Gliscor have been to its exact moveset. I've tried a couple of variants, mainly testing Protect and Toxic, mostly due to the fear of Excadrill during its time in OU. I finally settled on this one due to its stall breaking capabilities. I know it doesn't beat all stall Pokemon easily, but I can usually take on the ones that it has trouble with one by one until Gliscor is clear to sweep. Like Jirachi, Gliscor's EVs have been adjusted to outspeed Adamant Breloom and Cloyster, and the leftovers are used to further increase Gliscor's physical bulk. Gliscor really is invaluable against stall teams, and it's not unusually for me to sweep stall teams cleanly with Gliscor before late-game.


    Gastrodon(F)@Leftovers
    Calm
    Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 Def
    Moves:
    -Scald
    -Ice Beam
    -Toxic
    -Recover

    One of the common pieces of advice I received from d0nut and epic_eevee was that my original was weak to bulky Waters and Rain teams. After a few different changes to fill that gap, my eye turned to Gastrodon. I decided to try out its bulky set, and I haven't looked back since. Ever since Gastrodon was added, players have learned to be careful around it with their Rain teams, yet its effectiveness has hardly wavered. Scald is perhaps the most useful move on this set, mainly since there aren't many offensive Pokemon that appreciate a burn. It also has the potential to do plenty of damage if I get a Storm Drain boost. Ice Beam also gives me an additional answer to Pokemon like Lati@s, in case Jirachi is down on its luck. However, the move was mainly used for Thundurus, so I had considered changing it to Earth Power now that he's gone. Toxic gives me a way to cripple Pokemon that I otherwise cannot harm much, such as Rotom-W, and Recover keeps me healthy. Honestly, the fact that Gastrodon has reliable recovery is the main reason that I find it worthwhile; it can check plenty of threats and still maintain high health.

    Experience with Gastrodon: During the Thundurus testing round, I had a custom EV spread tailored to take on Thundurus. Since then, I've changed it to the full specially defensive spread to better tank special hits alongside Jirachi. This has made Gastrodon all the more effective at countering Rain. While it isn't a perfect Rain-check, I can usually handle most Rain threats between Gastrodon, Jirachi, and other members depending on the threat. Gastrodon has started to lose some of its mojo, but I have to say that there hasn't been a single match I've been in where Gastrodon hasn't done something important to help me out. Pretty solid, definitely has a niche as a bulky water and answer to Rain.


    Terrakion@Choice Scarf
    Jolly
    Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Moves:
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -X-Scissor
    -Earthquake

    A lot of people often refer to one Pokemon on their team as the "glue of the team," the one Pokemon that checks a wide variety of threats that would otherwise tear the team apart. Out of all the members of my team, Terrakion would definitely have to be my glue. I love all Terrakion sets, but the Scarf set has proven to be my favorite. With Base 129 Atk and incredible STABs, Terrakion hardly needs a Life Orb for extra damage. That Base 108 speed with a Scarf also allows it to outspeed virtually every +1 Pokemon in OU bar the odd Scarf Latios, as well as plenty of +2 threats. Close Combat and Stone Edge honestly hit almost everything in the tier hard on their own. X-Scissor has its uses, mainly getting a slightly more powerful and safer hit on Pokemon like Lati@s, Starmie, and Reuniclus than Stone Edge, and a much better hit on Celebi. Earthquake sees its uses every now and then, mainly when I want to take out something with a strong coverage move that's more reliable than Stone Edge and will not drop my defenses like Close Combat. It's also stronger than either STAB on a few Pokemon, like Tentacruel, so it's not totally useless.

    Experience with Terrakion: Terrakion's set has mainly changed in one was. I used to run HP Ice over Earthquake for catching Gliscor for a 2HKO on the switch, but I found that the majority of the time that wouldn't work out for one reason or another. Gliscor also dropped in usage a bit after the Excadrill ban, so I went back to Earthquake. As far as game experience goes, I've found that if there's one of my Pokemon who can consistently sweep up the remainder of an opponent's team late-game, it's Terrakion. Many of my battles come down to softening up the opponent's team, bringing in Terrakion, picking a STAB and rolling with it. It's also one of the best checks Pokemon like DD Salamence, DD Dragonite, DD Gyarados, QD Volcarona, SS Cloyster, and DD Scrafty; pretty much anything that likes to boost its speed and sweep, Terrakion checks it. Easily the MVP in many of my matches, including my warstory match. All around great Pokemon, I just love it.



    There's the final version of Team Monkeyfish. I've really been through a lot with this team, and I can honestly say that this is the only team that I've actually felt a little sentimental about (well, maybe it's just the monkeyfish). It's had its good battles and bad, but it has been reliable enough to get me to #10. Keep in mind as you're rating that this team was retired just prior to the Deoxys-S ban, and the peak was achieved not too long after the Thundurus/Excadrill ban. That said, there may be some changes in the metagame now that this team would need to prepare for that I simply didn't have to worry about as much in the past. I would appreciate it if you rated it as it would perform in the current metagame, just in case I decide to bring it out of retirement before the next big metagame shift. As usual, here's the threat list. I've shortened it, thank goodness.

        Spoiler:- Threat List:
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 9th March 2012 at 2:14 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quagsire could replace gastro, because it has unaware. It might lose storm drain, but it stops set-up sweepers after scor has been taking out.

    The scor set I have never seen before, but it looks like it completely stops swords dance scizor, among other threats.

    Looks like a very solid team.

        Spoiler:- Clan:

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  3. #3
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    Timid on hydreigon
    Dragon pulse>hp ice on heatran if possible making it cover everything neutrally except balloon heatran


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  4. #4

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    Hey, thanks for the rates! ^_^

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Blue Dragon View Post
    Quagsire could replace gastro, because it has unaware. It might lose storm drain, but it stops set-up sweepers after scor has been taking out.
    While I do love Quagsire, the main reason I'm using Gastrodon is to check Rain and just random Water attacks in general. With its vulnerability to Water attacks, Quagsire will be worn down quickly by Hydro Pumps and Surfs in the Rain.

    Quote Originally Posted by eliteknight View Post
    Timid on hydreigon
    Oh hey, thanks for cathing that! Yeah, I had this team saved on a Microsoft Word document, and I guess I forgot to change Naive back to Timid when I removed U-Turn way back when.

    Dragon pulse>hp ice on heatran if possible making it cover everything neutrally except balloon heatran
    The main reason I use HP Ice is because in combination with the Air Balloon, Heatran makes a great check to Landorus, Gliscor, Salamence, and Dragonite. Each of those is OHKO'd (or 2HKO'd in Dragonite's case) with HP Ice, something that I could not do between Fire Blast and Dragon Pulse. The only thing that I may not 2HKO with HP Ice that I will always 2HKO with Dragon Pulse (that I can think of ) is Latios/Latias, neither of which Heatran should stay in on anyways.

    EDIT: Oh, and while I'm at it, I forgot to change Terrakion back to Jolly. I'm glad you saw that, lol.
    Thanks for the suggestions!
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 9th December 2011 at 10:01 PM.

  5. #5
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    Great team!

    I only have a few things to add:

    Twave > Body Slam on Jirachi, purely for the guaranteed paralysis. I suppose this could be personal preference though. Also, I suggest protect over taunt on Gliscor. I find Gliscor doesn't have as much use for taunt, as it is invulnerable to status etc. If it works for you though... I'd also run adamant on Terrakion, it's a lot safer to do now that Deo-S has been banned (Huzzah!)

    Ice Cold Fire

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Dewott View Post
    Twave > Body Slam on Jirachi, purely for the guaranteed paralysis. I suppose this could be personal preference though.
    I've been itching to test Thunder Wave since the Excadrill ban. The main reason I like Body Slam is that it lets me have a chance to paralyze everything but Ghost types, mainly for the chance to paralyze an incoming Landorus, and pretty much any other Ground types that Jirachi often baits.

    Also, I suggest protect over taunt on Gliscor. I find Gliscor doesn't have as much use for taunt, as it is invulnerable to status etc.
    I have tried SD/Protect before, but I found it ineffective at handling stall, which Gliscor is very helpful for. The main reason for Taunt is stopping Recovery and opposing Taunts. For example, I can beat Skarmory if I Taunt it out of Roost, while even a +6 Ice Fang will not 3HKO, so I need to shut down its recovery. It's also kind of useful for Taunting Rotom-W when it switches in so that it can't Trick or Will-O-Wisp Gastrodon as he switches in, so that'll be a tough change to make.

    If it works for you though... I'd also run adamant on Terrakion, it's a lot safer to do now that Deo-S has been banned (Huzzah!)
    Nah, the main reason I use Jolly isn't for Deoxys-S; it's for all the things just slower than a Jolly Terrakion at +1. Without Jolly, I'm outsped by +1 Base 95's and up, which means that the list of things Terrakion can check drops dramatically.

    Thanks for the advice, though! I'll seriously consider Thunder Wave on Jirachi if I bring this team back.

  7. #7
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    The only thing that I can see that you could try out is

    expert belt > life orb on Hydreigon. It loses a little bit of power but it can still destroy everything you listed not to mention it makes for a great lure and cuts down on you having to predict since most people will think its choiced.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puretrainer View Post
    The only thing that I can see that you could try out is

    expert belt > life orb on Hydreigon. It loses a little bit of power but it can still destroy everything you listed not to mention it makes for a great lure and cuts down on you having to predict since most people will think its choiced.
    Okay, I ran a couple of calcs on some of the things that I was most worried about (i.e. Tyranitar, Heatran, Jellicent, etc.), and Expert Belt does just as well as Life Orb in getting the KOs on those threats. The lack of recoil could also really help maintain Hydreigon's survivability, which works well with the more balanced nature of this team. I might miss the extra power on Draco Meteor, but the bluff could really work in the current metagame with the increase in ScarfHydra that I've been seeing lately.

    That's a pretty good idea, thanks! I haven't used Expert Belt Hydreigon in a while. I'll edit that into the OP.

  9. #9
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    good team.!
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